Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[Ready4]

I have 2 Nanolux CMH 630W Double Lamp Fixture's for 2 4x4 tents. I don't see why you would buy the Sun System or the other single fixture mountings for the same cost of the double lamp fixture. You get more lumen output and the option to add different spectrum LEC bulbs depending on what stage of growth you're at...

After watching a single 315 in action, I think that the 630's , with two bulbs so close to each other, is overkill & a lot of overlapping & wasted light.
Just my opinion of course, any other thoughts
welcome.
That single 315 lec is so bright, it is amazing & the natural light spectrum makes me smile. I would think 2 lights , if placed side by side,
could really crank out some serious bud. Expensive for sure but you get what you pay for .

 

[Jhhnn]

After watching a single 315 in action, I think that the 630's , with two bulbs so close to each other, is overkill & a lot of overlapping & wasted light.
Just my opinion of course, any other thoughts
welcome.
That single 315 lec is so bright, it is amazing & the natural light spectrum makes me smile. I would 2 lights ,placed side by side,
could really crank out some serious bud. Expensive for sure but you get what you pay for .

My limited experience indicates that twin 315's in a single reflector are the rough equivalent of a single 1000w lamp. A 1000w lamp over a 4x4 space is very much industry standard for big growers. My space is basically 4x4, so it works great.

In a 6x3 space, for example, a grower would probably do better in the corners with two reflectors.

 

[LastHurrah]

Combining CMH with HPS in verticals... a waste?

I meant combining LEC with HPS in verticals. Not seeing much of this. Was popular with the CMH 400's as I recall.

I want to see a thread were a grower just hangs one of these 315's vertically in the center of 6-8 plants and presses go. Folks running hps/mh like this all day.

If you know of LEC grows like this, please direct my path.

LH

 

[bigbadbiddy]

I'm sorry if this has been answered in here already but I have looked through the thread as far as I could get and haven't found a current answer...

Does anyone know how to get a 315w CDM Elite in Europe?
I have found places where I can get the bulb for around 100 bucks.
But I could only find 1 vendor who sells the fitting ballast from philips themselves and that one costs about 150 bucks or more...

Since I would still need a hood and socket for the bulb, I think the fixture would come out at about 300 bucks.
The only complete fixtures I could find are the D-Papillon Luminair with Philips CDM-TP bulbs for 500 bucks.
Or a Dimlux Expert set for about the same price.

So DIY seems the way to go. Just the ballast seems like a bottleneck since I can only find the one from Philips.

Can someone maybe simply suggest another ballast I could use with the CDM elite 315w? Of course it would have to be available in Europe...

Thanx!

 

[maryjane481]

Wow! I didn't notice the list price crossed out on those double DDzz.

Hey Jhhnn, would you air cool the side by side reflectors in a 4.5 x 4.5 tent?
Thanks

 

[McKush]

Maybe it is availability that is the problem but Phillips ballast for $150 USD is a fairly reasonable price. Many places charge more. $300 all in for parts is reasonable too. Thats roughly what diy costs right now. Used Phillips ballasts can be found also if you have access to eBay

I would get the good ballast and wouldnt trade safety for a few bucks off a chinese made unit.

 

[Ready4]

My limited experience indicates that twin 315's in a single reflector are the rough equivalent of a single 1000w lamp. A 1000w lamp over a 4x4 space is very much industry standard for big growers. My space is basically 4x4, so it works great.

In a 6x3 space, for example, a grower would probably do better in the corners with two reflectors.

Thanks Jhhnn, A single fixture just seems so damn bright when you are used to a 400 hps. I tried comparing the light of a friends 1000w fixtures but not having them side by side made it difficult.
I bet it works incredible in your 4' x 4' space, probably finish quicker too.

 

[Jhhnn]

Wow! I didn't notice the list price crossed out on those double DDzz.

Hey Jhhnn, would you air cool the side by side reflectors in a 4.5 x 4.5 tent?
Thanks

I can't answer that question as well as I'd like because I've never used tents & have limited experience.

When I came back to growing nearly 3 years ago it was with a used 1000w rig. I rapidly discovered that I needed to air cool the reflector to control the temps at all, even went to two stage cooling to achieve it. The house is not air conditioned but rather has a large evaporative cooler. I run the light in the daytime, not at might because it's more convenient & insures better light control. I carried that forward from my original temporary foamboard enclosure to the custom built closet in my pics. It was designed to accommodate a 1000w system using air cooling only. There was more fan noise & electrical consumption than I liked so when the DIY opportunity to upgrade to CDM at a reasonable price appeared I took it. The setup is considerably cheaper to run & a lot quieter because I could turn down the fans using variacs.

Other than DIY like my own the only PGZ CDM reflector I know of designed for forced air cooling is the Phantom model. You could try those w/o the forced air cooling, experiment to see what you get, buy the air cooling adapters if you need them.

It's the best I can offer.

 

[rives]

I run two 315's in a 4x4 in a house without a/c.

It is set up with single-stage cooling, drawing through the filter, then the two hoods in series, and then out into the room that the tent stand in. There is another 100 cfm fan dumping into the same room from a remote location, so there is about a 100 cfm of air exchange on the room. It'll get up into the low '80's on a hot summer day, substantially cooler the rest of time. I prefer to shut that tent down in the peak of summer, but have successfully run it that way.

 

[Jhhnn]

I run two 315's in a 4x4 in a house without a/c.

It is set up with single-stage cooling, drawing through the filter, then the two hoods in series, and then out into the room that the tent stand in. There is another 100 cfm fan dumping into the same room from a remote location, so there is about a 100 cfm of air exchange on the room. It'll get up into the low '80's on a hot summer day, substantially cooler the rest of time. I prefer to shut that tent down in the peak of summer, but have successfully run it that way.

I get the impression that tents are somewhat easier to keep cool than drywall closets because some heat escapes as convection thru the tent. The R-value of conventional framing with drywall on both sides is obviously greater. The bigger the room for the tent the better, even with forced air circulation thru the room.

 

[Key Ran]

Hello,

I have been reading and admiring this forum from the start, and have been waiting and planning for over a year to build a legal medical room with 315w hung vertically.

Well I finally have the space available for a flower room that will be approximately 16' x 10'. Considering doing a good old tree grow with 12 plants to maximize the space. What I wanted to ask is if anyone has any recommendations on using these bare bulb, as I can't seem to find anyone who has reported on it yet. I have 8' headroom and was unsure if 3 bulbs hung in between each plant vertically stacked for a total of 18 bulbs in this pattern
X X X X
0 0 0
X X X X
0 0 0
X X X X

But I am not sure if that would be overkill for the space with these bulbs or should I just run a total of 12 for two at each site. Also, where is the absolute least expensive site that I can buy the Advance Phillips ballasts and bulbs at? No need for expensive kits here, an electrician is in on the job. The watts come out to 5670 with 18 bulbs, or right near what it would be if I dropped 1000w hps bare in there between each plant, and that seems doable with a/c and proper ventilation, but again I'd hate to overdue it and the extra money from doing 2 per site for a total of 12 would really help in other areas.

I appreciate the knowledge put forth here, and wholeheartedly appreciate any ideas, suggestions, response, or if anyone has any experience using these bulbs vertically?

Thanks !

 

[Key Ran]

Sorry about the bad pattern.. this is more what I was looking at:
X- Plant 0-light

X-X-X-X
-0-0-0-
X-X-X-X
-0-0-0-
X-X-X-X

just 12 trees evenly spaced with bulbs hung vertically in between each plant..
Thanks again

 

[Key Ran]

And... last post now sorry for the multiples but I just talked to my business partner and he reminded me of the other possible setup we are looking at is to do 2 vertical donuts with the 315's, with each donut around 7' to 8' with as many of the 315's as we could squeeze in the middle, preferably at least 6 stacked on top of each other. Does anyone have an opinion as to if the light from 6 of these stacked on top of each other will be enough, not enough, or too much for a donut like this? Each donut would have 6 plants with tall vertical screens.
The reason we wanted to ask about this as well is that I believe that we will get a better yield, although more maintenance, if we scrog them vertically as opposed to just doing a more hands off tree grow. Opinions?
Thanks again community,
It is a wonderful time to be alive in the legal Northwest!

 

[bandit60001]

Rives, any thoughts or info on venture lighting's 315 system? They list their own bulbs and ballasts. Im thinking they may not do retail sales though.

Im looking to diy a fixture to replace 400hps and trying to explore any available options

 

[frostqueen]

And... last post now sorry for the multiples but I just talked to my business partner and he reminded me of the other possible setup we are looking at is to do 2 vertical donuts with the 315's, with each donut around 7' to 8' with as many of the 315's as we could squeeze in the middle, preferably at least 6 stacked on top of each other. Does anyone have an opinion as to if the light from 6 of these stacked on top of each other will be enough, not enough, or too much for a donut like this? Each donut would have 6 plants with tall vertical screens.
The reason we wanted to ask about this as well is that I believe that we will get a better yield, although more maintenance, if we scrog them vertically as opposed to just doing a more hands off tree grow. Opinions?
Thanks again community,
It is a wonderful time to be alive in the legal Northwest!

Hey there. I just wanted to pop in here for a minute to propose some food for thought. I was doing similar planning a few months back and somebody (probably Rives or Jhhnn) suggested that I stop thinking in terms of lighting plants and instead start thinking in terms of lighting the entire space with the optimum light levels, then move the plants in and have them happy wherever they are placed. I think this is brilliant advice. It also allows you to shift to different growing styles on the fly without having to move lights.

What I eventually decided upon was placing each 315 vertical bulb (within a reflector; Phantoms in my case) about 30-33 inches apart across the entire area. More bulbs isn't better. The right amount is what is needed.

In my case I am working with a 12 foot by 8 foot room. I decided to leave a ~30" area at the room's front without lights to have as a work area, so that leaves me lighting an area about 5-1/2 feet by 12. I will also leave an extra 6" or so by the side walls for reflectance. These walls will be painted bright white. Reflectance from walls is essential IMO; that's a Greenbeams concept that I think applies to most other 315 setups as well.

So, I'm going to do two rows of four 315s, and space them about 33" apart (bulb to bulb) for total coverage of a 5-1/2 X 11 area.

Does that make sense? This allows me to use the room for a number of different styles and numbers of plants because the whole area is perfectly lit. I can even veg in there if I need to, or do sea of green and shove 80 smaller pots in there to trial new strains I've bred. Or I could have 3 massive trees filling the whole area.

I will also be using a dedicated 12K or 18K mini split in there, which will eliminate air cooling.

I hope this helps. Running various scenarios around in your head before building can be helpful. These bulbs are very efficient, so I wouldn't put more in there than you need.

 

[Jhhnn]

I've never grown w/ open vertical lamps, probably never will. This first round w/twin 315's seems to have done as well as with my prev 1000w dual arc setup. Same reflector, same soil, same blumats but different strains. That's pretty shallow experience so take it for what it's worth.

If I were interested in vert growing I'd go to those threads, see whose technique & rationale seems right to me & apply that formula. If they used two 1000w I'd figure on four 315's to do the same work.

 

[rives]

Rives, any thoughts or info on venture lighting's 315 system? They list their own bulbs and ballasts. Im thinking they may not do retail sales though.

Im looking to diy a fixture to replace 400hps and trying to explore any available options

If I remember correctly, Venture is a subsidiary of Advance, and Advance is a subsidiary of Philips. The lamps and ballast share exactly the same specifications and design of the Philips gear, so I'm reasonably sure that Philips is the point of origin or at least they are built to Philips specs. I wouldn't be afraid to use them at all, if you can source the parts.

 

[timmur]

Hey Key good luck on your vert action. I'm putting together a smaller space (8 x8) horizontal room with 12 Greenbeams and 9 site Under Current XL. Orca on the walls and ceiling. I'm gonna veg and flower in the same room. Lights permanently mounted. I'm really curious to see how your setup does once you get it up and running. Wish I could offer some advice, but not really up on stacked lighting. Hydro or soil? My room should be up by mid Feb. Just ordered the gear. Good luck!

 

[CHEFfy]

Seems a bit overkill... Think you could do as well with 9x greenbeams in a square space like that. Just my $.02.

 

[Jhhnn]

Hey there. I just wanted to pop in here for a minute to propose some food for thought. I was doing similar planning a few months back and somebody (probably Rives or Jhhnn) suggested that I stop thinking in terms of lighting plants and instead start thinking in terms of lighting the entire space with the optimum light levels, then move the plants in and have them happy wherever they are placed. I think this is brilliant advice. It also allows you to shift to different growing styles on the fly without having to move lights.

What I eventually decided upon was placing each 315 vertical bulb (within a reflector; Phantoms in my case) about 30-33 inches apart across the entire area. More bulbs isn't better. The right amount is what is needed.

In my case I am working with a 12 foot by 8 foot room. I decided to leave a ~30" area at the room's front without lights to have as a work area, so that leaves me lighting an area about 5-1/2 feet by 12. I will also leave an extra 6" or so by the side walls for reflectance. These walls will be painted bright white. Reflectance from walls is essential IMO; that's a Greenbeams concept that I think applies to most other 315 setups as well.

So, I'm going to do two rows of four 315s, and space them about 33" apart (bulb to bulb) for total coverage of a 5-1/2 X 11 area.

Does that make sense? This allows me to use the room for a number of different styles and numbers of plants because the whole area is perfectly lit. I can even veg in there if I need to, or do sea of green and shove 80 smaller pots in there to trial new strains I've bred. Or I could have 3 massive trees filling the whole area.

I will also be using a dedicated 12K or 18K mini split in there, which will eliminate air cooling.

I hope this helps. Running various scenarios around in your head before building can be helpful. These bulbs are very efficient, so I wouldn't put more in there than you need.

I think you're in the ballpark w/ that. It's 2520w over 66 sq ft or 38w/ sq ft. I had really good results at that level of CDM lighting.