Too many things can go wrong in one build. I'd prefer to have a redundant setup, where if one part breaks then I can replace it quickly instead of waiting for a manufacturer to respond and such.
Thanks.
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Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)
- Thread starter rives
- Start date
Too many things can go wrong in one build. I'd prefer to have a redundant setup, where if one part breaks then I can replace it quickly instead of waiting for a manufacturer to respond and such.
Thanks.
I'm not following you on that. Redundancy is something no longer useful or needed. You could build in redundant components in case of failure. That's not what we are talking about here. Hydrofarm would not take that long to send out a replacement ballast. The Phantom CMh 315W comes with a 3 year warranty. Most of us use plug and play Ballast. The more component's you add the more likely you will have something fail. I was off on the price it was 183$ 
Only reason I'm not going with another plug and play is from what I've seen none use the philips ballast. Haven't seen any other ballast that has a dimmer on it. If one exists point the way I'd much rather not have to mess with the diy and transformers.
That's what I was looking for thanks. Can't beat that $200 price for the kit.
Dank Whisperer
Member
I want to preface my comments on dimming by saying they are not an attack on you, just an evaluation on the perception of dimming in general before addressing Philips directly. I wanted to mention dimming generally first because I think that there is a general misconception of dimming which has come from use of rheostats, which doesn't quite transfer to ballasts.
I have never used any dimming feature on any ballast (IIHO, they are gimmicks). My view is that a bulb is a device designed to run optimally under very specific parameters, and a ballast is a device designed to produce a signal within those parameters. Optimally, one and/or both devices are "tuned" to the other. Anyone that has tuned a musical instrument by ear can imagine what I'm talking about. Also see: Gavita/Philips collaboration on DE and their #s as a result of tuning.
Dimming changes the operating parameters drastically, and while capable of maintaining functionality, creates dissonance in one way or another. The shift in spectrum seems negligible, and after the 930/942 debate just forget that I even brought it up. But, in regard to the effect on the lifespan of the bulbs though, I know dimming is absolute MURDER on HPS/MH bulbs. IIRC (and somebody please correct me if I am inaccurate, that's why I'm here), Philips recommends dimming a maximum of 25% of the (life?)time, otherwise it would be detrimental to the bulb.
If I am right about 25%, then one would have to evaluate whether dimming is even a viable option as the amount of time you'd be able to operate while dimming would be quite limited. Maybe best used for hardening off, or the first half of vegging. And given the longer lifespan of CMH, it seems like a person would want to keep track of the number of hours one has operated while dimmed in order to get their $'s worth.
regarding negative effect of dimming
regarding negative effect of dimming
Running the lamp dimmed for more than 25% of the time will negatively affect the lumen maintenance, not the average rated life span.
Whether this will affect a grower in a negative way may or may not be true. I mean if you are running it dimmed for a significant portion of the time, then the negative impact on lumen maintenance over time may be just what the grower needs.
Silly, I know but.... :shrug:
regarding negative effect of dimming
Running the lamp dimmed for more than 25% of the time will negatively affect the lumen maintenance, not the average rated life span.
Whether this will affect a grower in a negative way may or may not be true. I mean if you are running it dimmed for a significant portion of the time, then the negative impact on lumen maintenance over time may be just what the grower needs.
Silly, I know but.... :shrug:
I run my Gavita 1k DE dimmed most of the time. The bulbs are 2+ years old now. The plants are still flowering the same as when the bulbs where 1st installed. Bulb life was 1 of the reasons I upgraded all my flowering lights to Gavita/E-PAP DE.
If I were able to I would run it at full power but it's for a temporary veg space until I get another flower room set up, and it's too small of a space to run it at full power. I have a t5 in there now but want to utilize some of the heat from the 315 so I don't have to run a space heater. If all it costs me is a bulb I can live with that.
got my cmh from rocky mountain grow lites in denver;
my non remote wellthink ballast 315w setup in a 5'x10' tent ^^
^^ bulbs and converters
^^ remote ballast
i'm running these two 315w setups in a tent with one 600w hps in the middle.
^^ 600w hps running next to 315w CMH
my non remote wellthink ballast 315w setup in a 5'x10' tent ^^
^^ bulbs and converters
^^ remote ballast
i'm running these two 315w setups in a tent with one 600w hps in the middle.
^^ 600w hps running next to 315w CMH
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Very Nice AM..
Rives you think this really works ??
http://growershouse.com/grosave-energy-controller-1001-common-commercial-unit
Rives you think this really works ??
http://growershouse.com/grosave-energy-controller-1001-common-commercial-unit
Dank Whisperer
Member
I guess I should have said "usable lifespan for growers". "Lumen maintenance" is "life span" when using it to grow, as far as I am concerned. The maintenance factor is what I was referring to initially, as we aren't using them until (non-premature) failure. Also, I think it's telling that dimming ballasts fire at 100% for a certain period, and only then are they capable of dimming.
And, when you consider that you can only do it 25% of the time there must be some kind of constant degradation occurring during dimming. I can't imagine there is some kind of magic drop-off point. I'm guessing 25% is the time before the rate of depreciation deviates significantly enough from the lamps "normal" lumen depreciation curve to be worth mentioning.
Perhaps I'm looking at it wrong? It just doesn't seem realistic that anyone running their CMH bulb dimmed (after properly broken in) for the first 7,500 hrs should actually expect to see the 95% lumen maintenance the Philips spec sheet states @ 8000 hrs? The effect would be worse the "later in life" the bulb is when it is operated dimmed as well. I think it's great that the effect isn't horrible like it is on HPS bulbs, but it still follows the same general set of principles.
At least with Philips and CMH, dimming is not the complete gimmick it is in HPS/MH marketplace. Yet another feather in the cap of CMH.
Dank Whisperer
Member
I saw you posted this while I was typing my last post, so just to clarify: The lumen maintenance effects of dimming I mentioned were in regard to SE (HPS/MH) bulbs, and I haven't seen results including DE bulbs (your anecdotal evidence sounds promising as I just got one myself, and can't wait for my bulb to replace my furnace the next two winters).
All of the people I know running DE dim there ballast. We are all seeing the same bulb life. If all the plants continue to perform I will use them until they don't anymore. . I think Treetroit City is close to 3 years on the same bulb.
I have t5's in my veg room and then I flower under DE Gavita 1000's. I have to dim the gavitas down when I put the t5 vegged plants in and then slowly ramp the lights up for a week or so until I can run them at 1000 without stressing the plants out.
Wondering if these CMH would be a good upgrade from the t5's and maybe produce vegged plants that would handle the Gavitas a bit better and maybe require little or no dimmed period. Thoughts?
Wondering if these CMH would be a good upgrade from the t5's and maybe produce vegged plants that would handle the Gavitas a bit better and maybe require little or no dimmed period. Thoughts?
You might check into the 210w lamps. With the Philips ballast, you can swap back and forth between the 210w and 315w settings via a dip switch. I haven't looked into the spectra or the lamp envelopes that are available, but it might be an option for you.
No.
Dank Whisperer
Member
Is that one of the Gavita replacement reflectors? I heard those are better than others of the commercial replacement style because they actually put some $ behind the design. I like the idea of getting something proven for <$30. With limited headroom though, I'd recommend something broader, as the "commercial" units emit light in a narrow beam and only cover 4x4+ once mounted 8-10 feet up (they're so small as not to block the sun when hung in a greenhouse). Also, when utilizing the light emitted at 2, 3, or 4 ft away there is an incredible hot spot in the middle of the footprint. With such uneven distribution, you may want to keep shorter plants centered, or end up trimming/bending. I learned from using my OG that you can burn a plant from over 3' away if the reflected light is too focused at any one spot.
Can't wait to see your side-by-side results, looking good so far!
LOL, Things like that are always suspect.
I like all my CDM bulbs better than 600mh any day. Way way better than t5 IMO. I just swapped out 1 8 bulb t5 for 1 315w 4200.. All plants are saying they lov the new lights.
I like all my CDM bulbs better than 600mh any day. Way way better than t5 IMO. I just swapped out 1 8 bulb t5 for 1 315w 4200.. All plants are saying they lov the new lights.
Dank Whisperer
Member
I was gonna say something similar because I remembered it ran smaller bulbs as well, but couldn't remember if it required the controller or if the 50% setting was for them. 210 seems more than half of 315 so... I'm not familiar with utilizing DIPs, how would one be employed to achieve 210w on the Philips?
There is a small rubber plug in the bottom of the ballast. There is a very small switch behind it that is mounted on the circuit board. It has 2 switch levers side by side, and if they are both in the "up" position the ballast is set for 315w, and in the down position it runs 210w. You can flip the levers with a toothpick or something similar. The dimming feature can then be used full scale on the 210w lamp.
Dank Whisperer
Member
I'm sorry, I misunderstood. My malfunction was in thinking you were talking about utilizing one externally somehow. I was interested, but it's nice to know that it's already built-in. Thank you. I'm guessing Philips managed a slightly cleaner install than I could've too.
