Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[rives]

I also have a final question, do you think ATL will offer the CeremaTek 315w ballast in the future? I don't think they can be beat to extend lamp lifespan. If not, then is there anyone one can buy them individually?

Thank you sensei.

I have no idea what changes he has in mind regarding his lineup, but I would doubt it. The CeramaTek ballast that was originally offered was very expensive and made some claims that weren't supported by usage. GEL is no longer selling that particular ballast and the one that they offer appears to be the Philips. Avenger is probably correct - they don't understand the specifications and substituted ballast life hours for lamp life hours.

 

[willowz]

I'm not sure which ballast you are referencing here - "This is what....", and the T12 used with what? I think that you are referring to the Philips, so..

I'm skeptical of ALL of the extended lamp longevity claims by other manufacturers. 50k hours is 5.7 years of operation at 24 hours a day. These ballasts haven't been around long enough to run those kind of hours, much less determine that is what the average life will be. There are obviously going to be early failures, so average connotes that there must have been some that went far longer. Both GEL and Cycloptics have dropped that particular ballast. Hmmm..... Philips developed the technology, has been around for years as an industrial supplier, and in my opinion, has the most believable specs.

The T12 lamps should be usable behind any ballast that will run the T9. The difference lies in the physical envelope of the lamp, not in the operating characteristics.

This. Thanks!

The T12's seem to be better overall than the T9's due to what I understand is better power delivery to the bulb and probably some other enhancements the T12 offers over the T9(?) Would you find that to be a false statement?

Thanks.

 

[rives]

This. Thanks!

The T12's seem to be better overall than the T9's due to what I understand is better power delivery to the bulb and probably some other enhancements the T12 offers over the T9(?) Would you find that to be a false statement?

Thanks.

No idea where you got this, but no, it isn't correct. The T12's put out less light and have a shorter lifespan, with both probably due to the second envelope.

930 T9 - Avg. rated life- 30,000 hours, Approx. initial lumens - 37,800

930 T12- Avg. rated life- 20,000 hours, Approx. initial lumens - 36,200

Agro T12 - Avg. rated life- 20,000 hours, Approx. initial lumens - 33,000

 

[CMH]

It's interesting that the Sunplix claims 91.4% efficiency and draws 353.9 watts while the Philips claims 93% and draws 342 watts.

Look at the second picture. Input power of SunPlix ballast is 344.7W and output is 315.1W, power efficiency is 91.4%.
Can you post testing report of Philips 315W ballast here so all of us can compare these two ballasts before purchase?

 

[CMH]

This. Thanks!

The T12's seem to be better overall than the T9's due to what I understand is better power delivery to the bulb and probably some other enhancements the T12 offers over the T9(?) Would you find that to be a false statement?

Thanks.

T9 is not "O" rated and T12, ED37 are "O" rated.

 

[rives]

Look at the second picture. Input power of SunPlix ballast is 344.7W and output is 315.1W, power efficiency is 91.4%.
Can you post testing report of Philips 315W ballast here so all of us can compare these two ballasts before purchase?

The difference apparently stems from the line voltage. 120v = 353.9w, 240v = 344.7w.

All of the information on the Philips (except the Agro, which was introduced later) can be found in here - http://www.lighting.philips.com/pwc...literature/downloads/elite_design_guidev7.pdf

The Agro spec sheet - https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...astercolor_cdm_t_elite_315w_t12_cl_agro_p.pdf

 

[Avenger]

If you google sonny jiang, you get hits for sunplix and welthink,both out of Virginia Beach.....hmmmm

 

[Dank Whisperer]

Hey, can any of you guys tell me if 3 of these 315 thingys will work for a 4x4 (white, floor to ceiling) room? I don't think they'd be enough lumens, so I'm gonna use them to supplement my 1000w DE/600w HPS combo. And what's the difference with T9 and T12? I think that they're the same and that the "T" actually has to do with fluorescent light stuff. Oh, and can anyone tell me the best way to run these off of my 1000w 100kHz+ ballast? If not, does anyone know of a ballast that will work? Thanks.

KIDDING! I couldn't resist asking questions that are answered on the first page of the thread!

First off, a HUGE thank you to rives (esp. for starting this) and Jhhnn for all of the info provided in this thread. I wish I'd've stumbled upon this before my most recent HPS purchase. I was up all night reading through this entire thread (insomnia has its perks) and skimming some of the ridiculously large thread, now all that's left is to start on a CMH setup for myself. There are a couple things I wanted to run past Rives, Jhhnn, and others before doing any trigger pulling.

Backstory: I recently began my own operation from scratch after running someone else's for a while. After starting with no intentions of scroging or using my CFL veg light to flower, I ended up doing a 2'x4' CFL scrog which I parlayed into a 600w HPS and 1000w DE HPS system. As it stands, I've got 600w and 400w HPS systems slated to be replaced with CMH, but I'm on the fence about a couple of things and figured I'd sign up here to perhaps get a little help in figuring it out.

My goal is for a CMH setup that has close to perfect spread (a la Greenbeams) yet has some adaptability/vesatility (a la not Greenbeams) as I have not landed on my final growspace yet. Cooling not an issue ATM. Also, I want to be able to replace my father's (2x1000w HPS centered in a 10'x7') room when I will be out of the country, as he is on a fixed income and the HPS is killing him.

My main issues have been with the reflectors available, or more accurately, the lack of reflectors available. I have experience with the Growlite OG reflector, and while that experience was horrible, it's provided me with valuable knowledge on what the opposite of good design is. I'm not a fan of smooth specular finish as seen in many "parabolic" type reflectors mostly because when you are relying on a perfectly flat plane to reflect, any flaw in the shape of that panel will distort the output. The OG reflector has 8 individual panels (4 large mirrored/4 smaller textured strips in corners) that are curved and riveted only at the top and bottom of the enclosure. If you look at pics of it you can see the backside of the reflector panels when you look through the flanges, and what happens is when you apply suction the reflector panel adjacent to the intake becomes distorted and focuses light like mad. I had a perfect 3"x12" strip across my scrog that was light-burned straight to hell. ANY design employing curved panels needs to be like NASA-precise, otherwise it's shit.

I'm wondering if the shape/material of the arc tube makes the light more diffuse right off the bat, and that's why everyone seems to be employing smooth reflective surfaces, or if the light is just as "intense" and would benefit from being diffused by the textured reflector.
I was hoping to get some input from Jhhnn and Frostqueen on how they like their footprints in terms of size and uniformity. That was the other thing about the OG, while claiming suitable for 4x4 it was 2.5' x 2.5' at best (which is how they got that spike in the bullshit Grower'sHouse review that allowed to state "better than 1000w in a Raptor" -- Grower'sHouse and Growlite: shame). I am at odds, one choice being to buy a dual Raptor and change the sockets over, cover vent holes w/ reflective; but I'm a perfectionist and don't like two lamps in the same fixture striking and restriking each other. My other option, that I'm leaning more towards, is the Sunlight Supply Lumenmax. IIRC, they come in packs of 3, and don't come with sockets (just the junction box) which would allow me to use threaded rod to adjust the position of the socket, and thus the arc tube, allowing control of the shape/uniformity of the light. I was thinking of hanging them on a piece of blackpipe as to be able to slide them if I wanted to move them. I'm leaning more towards this option as it doesn't lock my bulbs into one fixture too.

A breakdown:
--Philips ballast: ~$180
--Lumenmax reflector: ~$76
--Philips bulb: ~$95 (sourced locally, in case of failure)
--Cords, socket, etc.: ~$40

[computing...] That comes out to appx $291 per unit, shipped. It would be less if I could afford to source all of the materials at once. If it works as good as I think, anyone wanna go into business w/ me as a middle ground between Cycloptics and Advanced? (I was joking when I started typing that, but now I'm actually considering it).

So much more I'm thinking about, my brain is still slightly mushy from taking in this whole thread Matrix-style. I'll have to regroup and come up some more specific questions, but I'll post this as food for thought. To be continued...

 

[milkyjoe]

If you google sonny jiang, you get hits for sunplix and welthink,both out of Virginia Beach.....hmmmm

Hmmmmm

 

[Jhhnn]

I have no idea what changes he has in mind regarding his lineup, but I would doubt it. The CeramaTek ballast that was originally offered was very expensive and made some claims that weren't supported by usage. GEL is no longer selling that particular ballast and the one that they offer appears to be the Philips. Avenger is probably correct - they don't understand the specifications and substituted ballast life hours for lamp life hours.

I'm using the ceramatec ballasts, but only because I got a good deal on them via ebay. As you say, Philips numbers are honest so I ignore possibly inflated claims to the contrary. It's unlikely that other makers' stuff is actually "better". Using T9 930's, I don't figure on changing lamps for a least a couple of years, maybe not then, so it's all good.

 

[CHEFfy]

Might want to check that math... I get $391/ unit.

 

[Jhhnn]

I wasn't terribly concerned with even light distribution because maximizing height in the grow space seemed more important at the time. Hence the supersun 2 snuggled up between the floor joists as seen in my albums. It's only 6'-3" from the floor to the glass. I'm sure the light is better down the middle but the system grows well into the corners of the space. I don't need every last gram.

To be very honest, I'd have used the kits from ATL (philips ballast & 942 mogul lamp) w/ used reflectors if I'd had the room. Dunno about where you live, but decent used horizontal lamp reflectors can be had cheap around here as bigger growers move up to DE systems. Using a mogul base extension, the light emitter is very close to dead center in the fixture. & properly aligned vertically. I used a 330w CMH w/ 400w MH ballast set up that way seasonally for veggie starts. Worked great, so I'll do the same next spring.

I think the light from CDM is less diffuse than that of HPS because the emitter acts like a point source while the long emitter of HPS obviously doesn't.

Much is made over the color temp differences between the 942, 930 & agro lamps but whatever they might be that pales in comparison to the fact that 315 CDM's stand head & shoulders above conventional HID in terms of results per watt. For me, any way, 630w of CDM in a semi-funky modified reflector handily replaced my previous 1000w installation in the same space, same fixture, same soil w/ blumats. I can't make a direct comparison because of different strains but this will be my best effort yet, I think. Some of it is still drying but only the most extreme shrinkage will prevent that.

 

[Dank Whisperer]

Might want to check that math... I get $391/ unit.

Yeah, sorry, I had a few different lists going and noticed I was looking at the one that was sans bulb after I posted [facepalm]. I love how I can't edit my posts either.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yeah, sorry, I had a few different lists going and noticed I was looking at the one that was sans bulb after I posted [facepalm]. I love how I can't edit my posts either.

Stick around. At 50 posts, you'll be able to do a lot more with the forum. Edit, PM, create albums & so forth. I think they set it up that way to deter spamming by PM.

 

[Dank Whisperer]

I wasn't terribly concerned with even light distribution because maximizing height in the grow space seemed more important at the time. Hence the supersun 2 snuggled up between the floor joists...

This is the downside of wattage limitations. Having two bulbs in one fixture means a more condensed reflector area for each bulb. This reminds me of my OG, or even all of these commercial DE fixtures with an aluminum breadbox covering the light produce a beam so intense that it's like a laser. That's why I like the broad Raptor footprint (IIRC, ones you're not a fan of) since I don't have 10ft of head room, and "footprint" does not equal canopy. Since my dad's room is ~7ft tall it has me thinking of converting his Raptors, or finding cheap Dual Raptors which would make the process easier.

Using a mogul base extension, the light emitter is very close to dead center in the fixture. & properly aligned vertically.

Another benefit of the Dual Raptor is the adjustable sockets, you can adjust for use with a single lamp or tweak both sides. I just think anything else requiring modification would be too much to juggle with multiple grows.

I think the light from CDM is less diffuse than that of HPS because the emitter acts like a point source while the long emitter of HPS obviously doesn't.

I was thinking so much about how round it was and didn't stop to think about the length of the HPS arc tube.

For me, any way, 630w of CDM in a semi-funky modified reflector handily replaced my previous 1000w installation in the same space

Semi-funky or not, sounds like you're almost turning lead into gold with it, so I'd be willing to put up with some lamp restriking and a little ununiformity in output.

 

[willowz]

Does anyone know the bulbs used and socket fixture for the DimLux Expert Series?

 

[Hammerhead]

I just added 1 of those Phantom 315 digital ballast. Growers house has the best prices going on right now. Total cost to ship to Ca was 183$.. I have the socket adapter. I will use my old Gavita Tripple star reflector. This will take the place of 1 of the large t5 fixtures. I only have 1 t5 left. everything else in the room is now CDM ..

Dimlux uses the same thing others do. I'm pretty sure there is no other option. Its a PGZ socket for CDM bulbs.


If anyone is looking for adapters. This is the Cheapest I have seen

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331716094672?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[Dank Whisperer]

I was looking at the Lumenmax reflectors for where I'd have more headroom. I've seen a 3-pack for <$230 to my door. I'm especially curious to hear from CHEFy and whoever else may have the Phantom. I'm wondering if the coverage is tight, like my OG turned out to be, because the company's main concerns were material costs, size of stock material, size of finished unit and palletization -- then they recreated the conditions at NASA during Apollo 13 in order to design a final product.

What I like about the Lumenmax is it's deeper than other similarly styled ("squarabolic") lumenaires. Since I have a basic understanding of the inverse square law and since I'm not in a tent, I'd prefer to light up plants rather than my walls. I was thinking about getting one of those Silver Sun parabolic and modifying each panel equally, shaping the output until it's even and of appropriate size; but only if I really wanted to do some tinkering. Instead of a fixed reflector spaced at designated intervals, it'd be fewer, larger "tunable" fixtures. As a more convenient option, I think the Lumenmax is at least a step in the right direction barring any reflectivity issues. Am I talking crazy-talk, or making sense?

 

[rives]

I like the looks of the Lumenmax. I'm prejudiced toward vertical lamp orientation - there is a damn good reason that virtually every industrial high- or low-bay fixture uses that design. The Phantom is also intriguing, particularly because of the air-cooling option. Dual lamp designs tend to put me off, I just think that hot spots and uneven distribution are inevitable. Jhhnn's height restrictions obviously outweigh that consideration in his case, but if there aren't overriding physical constraints, I think that they are best to stay away from.

 

[Hammerhead]

Would you guys use that for CDM bulbs??