Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[Snook]

High rives, there's allot to digest here and I've tried to ascertain answers from reading this thread but have not come up with definitive (for me anyway) answers, yes or no. 1, can 315s be hung vertical/bare bulb? and 2 might those 2 neked bulbs be driven by 1, 630w cmh ballast?


I dont usually give up the search so easily but with pre-wired ballasts to 2 cmh bulbs or 1, 630w DE cmh, square wave, I'ma no habla to well.


BTW: there is probably an answer in here... great thread

 

[rives]

High rives, there's allot to digest here and I've tried to ascertain answers from reading this thread but have not come up with definitive (for me anyway) answers, yes or no. 1, can 315s be hung vertical/bare bulb? and 2 might those 2 neked bulbs be driven by 1, 630w cmh ballast?


I dont usually give up the search so easily but with pre-wired ballasts to 2 cmh bulbs or 1, 630w DE cmh, square wave, I'ma no habla to well.


BTW: there is probably an answer in here... great thread

Glad that you have found the thread helpful.

There isn't any reason that the double-jacketed 315's (the T-12's) couldn't be run bare-bulb. The single jacket ones (the T-9's) are only intended to be used in enclosed fixtures. These lamps run at MUCH higher pressures than we are accustomed to and can grenade in spectacular fashion. The T-12 lamps are intended for use in open fixtures and the secondary jacket provides containment if they blow up.

I would never recommend ANY HID lamps to be run doubled up on a ballast. The 315's run lower frequency power than other lamps, and I really don't know what the 630's use, but standard high-frequency ballasts will rattle the lamps apart. Running multiple lamps on a ballast would wreak havoc with the internal protections that are built in and could be a recipe for disaster if one lamp quit working and the other got the full power.

 

[Americangrower]

Aren't the 630 Double bulb fixtures exactly that..2 x 315 off a 630 ballast?

 

[rives]

Aren't the 630 Double bulb fixtures exactly that..2 x 315 off a 630 ballast?

None that I am aware of. The Sun System units use Philips ballasts. The Nanolux says that it has to have two functional lamps installed, so perhaps it does or it may be that they don't want a ballast powered up with no load attached. A review on Amazon says that the guy went through two ballasts and 6 lamps in less than a year, so however it is arranged, it doesn't sound too optimal.

It's possible that a purpose-built ballast specifically designed for a two-lamp application could use different protection built in to accommodate two lamps, but using a standard 630w ballast intended for a single lamp would be a poor idea...

 

[Hammerhead]

All 630 ballast I know of are low frequency. The new 1kw CMH ballast are also low frequency.

Growers Choice 630NS is a single ballast which I assume splits the power to ea 315w bulb. The old 630 de was single. I have both in use. I wish they made the dual 315 ballast removable like the 630 de.

 

[rives]

All 630 ballast I know of are low frequency. The new 1kw CMH ballast are also low frequency.

Growers Choice 630NS is a single ballast which I assume splits the power to ea 315w bulb. The old 630 de was single. I have both in use. I wish they made the dual 315 ballast removable like the 630 de.

Thanks, HH.

It sounds as though this ballast is specifically built to push multiple lamps. According to the sales info, they can start one lamp at a time - "When multiple units are connected to the same mains circuit, our integrated Ignition Control software will completely balance the electrical draw by igniting one lamp at a time to prevent electrical surges and spikes that can overload the mains circuit and trip circuit breaking systems."

 

[Snook]

Glad that you have found the thread helpful.

There isn't any reason that the double-jacketed 315's (the T-12's) couldn't be run bare-bulb. The single jacket ones (the T-9's) are only intended to be used in enclosed fixtures. These lamps run at MUCH higher pressures than we are accustomed to and can grenade in spectacular fashion. The T-12 lamps are intended for use in open fixtures and the secondary jacket provides containment if they blow up.

I would never recommend ANY HID lamps to be run doubled up on a ballast. The 315's run lower frequency power than other lamps, and I really don't know what the 630's use, but standard high-frequency ballasts will rattle the lamps apart. Running multiple lamps on a ballast would wreak havoc with the internal protections that are built in and could be a recipe for disaster if one lamp quit working and the other got the full power.

Thank you for these answers, Rives but I see that there is little to no conversation about vertical 315s in hoods and none about vertical bare bulbs (or at least that I came across) . Is there some detriment that I'm not picking up on for running them bare bulb??

seems the cheapest way of introduction and hands on first experience to CMH growing.. although 'cheap' isnt in my agenda, I do have piles of ballasts, bulbs (hid & CMH) , bulbs and hoods/enclosures. Trying not to adding to the collection.

 

[rives]

Thank you for these answers, Rives but I see that there is little to no conversation about vertical 315s in hoods and none about vertical bare bulbs (or at least that I came across) . Is there some detriment that I'm not picking up on for running them bare bulb??

seems the cheapest way of introduction and hands on first experience to CMH growing.. although 'cheap' isnt in my agenda, I do have piles of ballasts, bulbs (hid & CMH) , bulbs and hoods/enclosures. Trying not to adding to the collection.

Bare bulb has come up a couple of times along the way, and I think that someone was talking about running stacked bare bulbs, but I don't recall anyone ever reporting back. The Cycloptics/Greenbeams reflector runs the lamp vertical as does the Phantom, and they have been used to good effect.

 

[zachrockbadenof]

not exactly sure what u guys mean by 'bare-bulb'... i bought '2' $185 buck (cheap) 315 cmh off ebay - ballast/hood/bulb/hangers/etc, complete- the hood had a glass cover , which i took off and ran without- i has no problem - should i have left the glass on the hood???- i thought i read on one of these threads to remove the glass- my present grow is over, but would like to know for future grows...

 

[rives]

not exactly sure what u guys mean by 'bare-bulb'... i bought '2' $185 buck (cheap) 315 cmh off ebay - ballast/hood/bulb/hangers/etc, complete- the hood had a glass cover , which i took off and ran without- i has no problem - should i have left the glass on the hood???- i thought i read on one of these threads to remove the glass- my present grow is over, but would like to know for future grows...

Bare bulb means no reflector - just the open lamp.

As I mentioned a couple of posts up above, the T-9 (single jacket) lamps should not be run without the fixture glass. The T-12 (double jacket) can be run in an open fixture.

 

[Snook]

not exactly sure what u guys mean by 'bare-bulb'... i bought '2' $185 buck (cheap) 315 cmh off ebay - ballast/hood/bulb/hangers/etc, complete- the hood had a glass cover , which i took off and ran without- i has no problem - should i have left the glass on the hood???- i thought i read on one of these threads to remove the glass- my present grow is over, but would like to know for future grows...

These are the reasons I was uncertain also ... not for the next grow but to end this one. Thanks again Rives.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I have a vertical reflector.

There's nothing stopping me from taking it off and just letting it hang.

The lamp itself is tiny and round so I imagine the reflector is helping focus a lot of light that would be wasted in a bare bulb setup.

HPS lamps are long and narrow making them ideal for vertical bare bulb setups.

 

[Hammerhead]

not exactly sure what u guys mean by 'bare-bulb'... i bought '2' $185 buck (cheap) 315 cmh off ebay - ballast/hood/bulb/hangers/etc, complete- the hood had a glass cover , which i took off and ran without- i has no problem - should i have left the glass on the hood???- i thought i read on one of these threads to remove the glass- my present grow is over, but would like to know for future grows...

If the bulbs are T9 u need to put that glass back on. Its there to prevent any fires or explosion damage if there's a catastrophic failure. If you got t12 bulbs u don't need any glass.

 

[Americangrower]

would this be coincided 1 630w ballast? either way I like the design kinda a copy of sunplix.

 

[Hammerhead]

I haven't seen that design before. Ya they call them 630. It could have separate 315 inside?. Its prob a single 630 split.

 

[zachrockbadenof]

If the bulbs are T9 u need to put that glass back on. Its there to prevent any fires or explosion damage if there's a catastrophic failure. If you got t12 bulbs u don't need any glass.

hammer and others ...thanks.... i ended my grow, but will re-insert the glass when i restart- will i lose any of the intensity having the glass on the hood??? thanks

 

[Hammerhead]

There is some PAR loss on all of these bulbs. Its no different then those of us using t12 bulbs. T9 has only 1 glass envelope. T12 has 2. They all need 2 to work safely..

 

[Hammerhead]

rives is there any reason to use an expensive Definite Purpose Contactor like this?. The types we use are allot cheaper around 12$. I was gonna grab this but not sure if these are the right kind. I don't see where the 120v goes for the coil.
https://www.amazon.com/GE-CR453AD2AAA-Replaced-C25DNF240A-Contactor/dp/B00WN4JYRG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1530661844&sr=8-2&keywords=Contactor%2C+2+pole%2C+40%2F50+A%2C+120V+Coil

 

[rives]

rives is there any reason to use an expensive Definite Purpose Contactor like this?. The types we use are allot cheaper around 12$. I was gonna grab this but not sure if these are the right kind. I don't see where the 120v goes for the coil.
https://www.amazon.com/GE-CR453AD2A...eywords=Contactor,+2+pole,+40/50+A,+120V+Coil

Nope.

I like the open-frame 40a power relays below. It was originally an Allen-Bradley design, and they live forever. I would think that the coil terminals on the linked contactor are probably down low on the line side. DP contactors are usually used as a cheap substitute for HVAC motors since regular motor contactors are substantially more expensive.


https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...n-Style,_40A_(AD-PR40_Series)/AD-PR40-2C-120A

 

[Hammerhead]

Nope.

I like the open-frame 40a power relays below. It was originally an Allen-Bradley design, and they live forever. I would think that the coil terminals on the linked contactor are probably down low on the line side. DP contactors are usually used as a cheap substitute for HVAC motors since regular motor contactors are substantially more expensive.


https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...n-Style,_40A_(AD-PR40_Series)/AD-PR40-2C-120A

I have 1 of those but it wont fit inside the controllers. I would have to make another box to use these open-frame types.
I'm using these. They are just replacements of the original that went bad.

https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_31&products_id=130


I also have this timer but I was curious whats the correct way to wire it. I don't think they had this wired right. Could u take a look and let me know if this is right..

1-2 are input 120v hot/neutral ?

3-5 are outputs to coil..