Perlite and beyond: the pros and cons of various drainage and aeration amendments

[mad librettist]

Perlite and beyond: the pros and cons of various drainage and aeration amendments

I don't care where it gets put, I started this for folks whose brains work like mine. no problem with your approach Von, but for me I need to deconstruct something to appreciate it. it's not better, just the way I think.

so on top of intuition, I'm trying to think in terms of functions, tortuosity, air porosity, water porosity, etc...

lots of folks are using perlite because they don't know about the better alternatives available to them. they also haven't stopped to consider what it really does or how. I bet you right now, someone with a bag of floor dry in the garage is waiting on a perlite order.

I'm also trying to plan ahead for a living soil by making my foundation something durable, but I don't think understanding the different components of a mix is only for soil builders.

 

[vonforne]

just the way I think.

so on top of intuition, I'm trying to think in terms of functions, tortuosity, air porosity, water porosity, etc...

part of soil building.

I'm also trying to plan ahead for a living soil by making my foundation something durable, but I don't think understanding the different components of a mix is only for soil builder

s.


That is exactly what a soil builder does ML.

 

[big ballin 88]

perlite - the only acceptable perlite I used was in a bag labeled large particles. the stuff from most nurseries is even worse. In all cases perlite is fragile and does not hold water and air like the infield conditioners do.

DE/turface particle size- about 1/8th inch. The napa product yields about 60% this size and 40% fines. The turface I just got looks ready to go out of the bag. The fines make a great substrate for a humidity tray/wicking watering tray

Pumice- i've used I guess what corresponds to (I think?) #2 and #3 gravel, and the size I have now is much chunkier than that.

others - vermiculite, chicken grit


If clay gravel is what you used for your aquarium, it's probably nothing like turface

kitty litter - actually, I've heard some of it is suitable. Always do a soak test for durability before adding to your mix. Some of the kitty litters turn into modeling clay.

The good thing about kitty litter is the different variants. Some are pine bark and sawdust, while some are betonite clay with quartz or DE added.

I need to find an alternative to the relatively expensive barks since shredded its getting harder to find. Got lucky with a mix I found recently for a base mix.

 

[mad librettist]

The good thing about kitty litter is the different variants

unless you have the variant that turns to mush! You can't rescue soil that has turned to clay mush, unless you can disperse it into a much larger batch.

That is exactly what a soil builder does ML.

loud and clear, vonforne, but on this thread, I'm a soil deconstructor


I think we need both approaches, and a thread on just one element of the mix offers detail and focus you can't find on a more general thread. That is, unless it gets derailed justifying its own existence!

 

[vonforne]

The good thing about kitty litter is the different variants. Some are pine bark and sawdust, while some are betonite clay with quartz or DE added.

I need to find an alternative to the relatively expensive barks since shredded its getting harder to find. Got lucky with a mix I found recently for a base mix.

you are having trouble finding Pine where you live? About the only trees in that state are Palms and Pines. lol

Should be pretty cheap on the west of the state or maybe up north in Walton county.

V

 

[mad librettist]

Update on napa 8822 calcined DE:

I can confirm a "liming" effect, but I can also confirm no problems from also using dolomite (peat mix) as usual.

I figured out the pH effect by trying to grow a species very sensitive to alkalinity (no tapwater allowed). it does fine in 50/50 peat/perlite. but with DE as a perlite replacement, I have very clear and potentially fatal nutrient poisoning/burn. I don't have a pH pen, but there is no other explanation.

I have transplanted into a new mix with pumice and peat. If the plant recovers, I will be extra confident in my conclusion.

since switching to a pumice/peat/turface mix, the plant has already started to recover. New growth is looking vigorous.

I can now say with confidence that calcined DE definitely buffers acidity to some degree.

 

[foescan]

I am a huge fan of perlite, although I don't think it is an organic amendment per se. I get it in extra coarse grade. The top half of the bag contains chunks the size of quarters. These take several years to break down to the point of needing to be replaced. In fact they usually outlast a peat-based soil mix.

If you have problems with perlite floating out of your soil, your soil is probably not ready for use, or you may need to inoculate with beneficials. Mine are glued in place, and I have to pull the soil apart.

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Hmm, I guess all my photos from the old gallery are gone except the first few dozen I ever uploaded. Above is a recent photo of the soil I am using on my current run. I have about 50 gallons of it by volume, and another 50 cooking. Lately after use, I just mix in some fresh ground flax seed and a bit of kelp, along with some char and whatever else I feel like tossing in. Not much. Ground flax seed is a great fertilizer. I'm growing all the fertilizers I need for my indoor hobby in my backyard.

Perlite used to be 30% of my mix. It's down to 20% and falling. Biochar is at least 10%, and chopped coco is 15%, the latter being a great perlite substitute so far.

 

[supuradam]

I've been shopping around trying to find calcined calcined diatomaceous earth, but in the description of everything it always says "crushed to a powder". Is this the way it is supposed to be? I see above you mention 1/8" particles.

Am I also correct in my understanding that if I add some to my soil (+/- ~1cu/cf?), I'm not in any real danger of overliming?

Thanks, Regards, etc

 

[jaykush]

I'm growing all the fertilizers I need for my indoor hobby in my backyard.

nice! what else do you use other than flax seed. we grow flax for bowstrings, and to eat the seeds. using it as ferts is a nice touch, good job.

 

[foescan]

Flax seed seems to promote fungal growth like nothing else. Although I use coarse ground oats as well and that's another great one for quickly increasing activity, but I don't use that as a fertilizer, just fungal food.

I've cut back on alfalfa use because it seems to encourage excessive stretch in some plants. And it can really burn some strains. I have lots of comfrey, nettles, borage and dandelion, all planted beside compost piles. Some of my dandelion have roots the size of carrots. This is mostly what I'm working with this year. I'm fermenting (anaerobically) leaves and roots to make a concentrated extract for storage, but mostly those items get shredded, mixed with castings, and dumped in my soil tubs.

I have a few cubic yards of very high quality compost, but I don't use compost indoors, just castings. Too much potential to bring in pests. I picked up a few bags of floordry, and a good deal of the fines went into compost piles, but I haven't used any in soil yet since my soil mix already has at least a half cup of 80-100 mesh regular DE in it per gallon.

 

[mad librettist]

Perlite and beyond: the pros and cons of various drainage and aeration amendments

I've been shopping around trying to find calcined calcined diatomaceous earth, but in the description of everything it always says "crushed to a powder". Is this the way it is supposed to be? I see above you mention 1/8" particles.

Am I also correct in my understanding that if I add some to my soil (+/- ~1cu/cf?), I'm not in any real danger of overliming?

Thanks, Regards, etc

definitely don't use powder for drainage. pm if you need help sourcing. turface works great too, and I have confirmed with someone informally that clay gravel for aquariums is pretty much turface.

 

[supuradam]

definitely don't use powder for drainage. pm if you need help sourcing. turface works great too, and I have confirmed with someone informally that clay gravel for aquariums is pretty much turface.

Yeah, I'll just pick up another 49 posts real quick and shoot you a pm

My real interest in the DE was from reading somewhere how all the surface area gives microbes a great place to hang out. Is that even legit?

 

[mad librettist]

Yeah, I'll just pick up another 49 posts real quick and shoot you a pm

woops sorry.

 

[jaykush]

so i was at the local autozone buying something a week or so ago, and i saw the diatomatious earth oil stuff on sale, big bag for like 3$. so i decided to give it a whirl for some propagating. i can say this stuff kicks ass for propagation. ive got all kinds of plants in just straight DE rooting pretty fast now. holds water extremely well yet is WELL aerated. best of both worlds.

 

[guest2012y]

Well....ML isn't a nut job after all.
How many days,temp,lighting?

 

[jaykush]

well i got more than just cannabis rooting in the DE so mad lib is not a madman. didnt count the days, not even sure what today is. temps changed as its just in my room in the open. id say 40s at night high 70s in the day. under a small light and i have some stuff rooting outside in my propagation house. you know me no fuss. with the DE i like that fact that i water once, and its wet yet aerated for some good time.

not sure yet how it acts in a soil medium, but so far seems to kick perlite's ass.

 

[big_daddy]

Here is a brief article about some of it's benefits, as well as it's origins.

b_d

EDIT: Is ML history?

 

[stratmandu]

I found this product today at a local garden supply: Espoma Soil Perfector. Its too dark to go out and read the bag, but I'll check it out tomorrow to see what it is exactly. I bought some to try instead of the #3 perlite I've been using to amend heavy red clay soil (that I can only find at the dang pot growing store). It is very much heavier than perlite, but you won't have to worry about it floating to the top in heavy rains. I bought 4 bags for about $13 a bag. I figure about a bag per hole (guerrilla outdoor), plus some organic ferts and guano would be worth a try...

http://www.espoma.com/p_consumer/perfector_overview.html

 

[ivanic]

would mixing in perlite with coco be better than just coco, what mix would you use

 

[schwagg]

i found #8822.