Perlite and beyond: the pros and cons of various drainage and aeration amendments

[mad librettist]

hey madlib, is pumice just as useless as perlite?

I don't think so. It's internally porous. Not as good as DE, but still good. And broken pumice beats broken perlite.


We all have to keep in mind that none of these amendments work the way we've been trained to believe. The properties of a mix are not simple averages of the properties of its components.

 

[love2gro]

I don't think so. It's internally porous. Not as good as DE, but still good. And broken pumice beats broken perlite.


We all have to keep in mind that none of these amendments work the way we've been trained to believe. The properties of a mix are not simple averages of the properties of its components.

thank you..i been reading up on gardenweb about soil drainage, perched water, etc.. my soil holds a good amount of perched water. would adding the correct sized pine bark help with aeration and the perched water?

 

[jaykush]

ive noticed a few things with my DE tests. when added to the mix even in a small percentage. when the mix seems 100% bone dry, even when the DE looks dry too. the plants are still happy. usually i only see this in terra preta mimic soils.

also if a soil is hydrophobic at first, the DE seems to suck the water in bypassing the hydrophobic properties.

 

[mad librettist]

Perlite and beyond: the pros and cons of various drainage and aeration amendments

ive noticed a few things with my DE tests. when added to the mix even in a small percentage. when the mix seems 100% bone dry, even when the DE looks dry too. the plants are still happy. usually i only see this in terra preta mimic soils.

also if a soil is hydrophobic at first, the DE seems to suck the water in bypassing the hydrophobic properties.

oh absolutely calcined DE or Turface make wetting agents obsolete.

calcined DE holds a LOT of water. it can make it weird to work with.


however, unlike something like moisture retention crystals, DE won't cause rot. despite all the internal water, it's still in big chunks.

love2gro - I am giving up on the pine bark, because the living mulch is opening old doors for me.

 

[love2gro]

love2gro - I am giving up on the pine bark, because the living mulch is opening old doors for me.

I see. But for someone with a heavy water retaining mix, what would be the best to add to help with aeration and my high perched water levels, besides having to start from scratch again? Im having what I think is overwatering problems starting at about week 4 of flower.

 

[mad librettist]

Perlite and beyond: the pros and cons of various drainage and aeration amendments

I see. But for someone with a heavy water retaining mix, what would be the best to add to help with aeration and my high perched water levels, besides having to start from scratch again? Im having what I think is overwatering problems starting at about week 4 of flower.

just make a wick!

 

[jaykush]

oh absolutely calcined DE or Turface make wetting agents obsolete.

calcined DE holds a LOT of water. it can make it weird to work with.

i think char is a far cheaper alternative to achieve the same results. but the DE does kick ass

however, unlike something like moisture retention crystals, DE won't cause rot. despite all the internal water, it's still in big chunks.

yea its not a "wet" water retention, i have 100% DE in a mist propagation system for the rooting medium for other plants i propagate. even when you dip a pot of DE into a bucket, let it soak up everything, pull it out and let it drain, the amount of air in the medium is excellent, AND its holding so much water it would stay wet for days even weeks depending on environmental conditions.

there should be a battle of char vs DE. i haven't used DE long term though but the char only gets better and better with time.

 

[love2gro]

can I just stuff a couple strips of rags into the drainage holes?

 

[mad librettist]

not sure on that. Usually you put a wick in when you fill up the pot.

use polyester or some other syntetic

 

[mugenbao]

can I just stuff a couple strips of rags into the drainage holes?

Although much of the thread doesn't really apply here due to it's focus on hydro, the passive plant killer thread has some pretty great information on the benefits and drawbacks of various wicking materials and how best to use them, as well as some pretty in-depth discussion of the properties of turface and other materials. There's lots of links to studies about perched water tables, hydraulic distribution, capillary action of media, etc., that can be either directly applied to soil or relevant information can be extrapolated.

 

[CC_2U]

Anyone use crushed lava rock? The red stuff (iron) - about 10x more 'holes' in the structure than pumice.

$40.00 per yard so I'm interested if anyone has used this in a soil mix.

Thanks!

CC

 

[jaykush]

i do works good

 

[CC_2U]

Thanks! The price is right - about 1/3 the price of pumice.

 

[Chong_Irie]

Does anyone know if Molton Brand "ultrasorb" is okay to use in the garden?/?? Its says it's 100% D.E, but I just want to make sure. Thanks

 

[SeaMaiden]

So I went into carquest yesterday. Just to verify in person that they don't have 8022 or whatever. They just had 7240. It is montmorillite (sp) clay aka 100% fullers earth. The bag says potting soil addition so I picked it up cas it was cheap and if no good for soil I could use it for the kitties. Anyway.
What do we do with this? Drainage? Or will it turn to mush? I'll give it a test when I get outta bed

I just learned what fuller's earth is, or was used for : wool processing!

just make a wick!

Oh yeah -- capillary action in action!

So far I still prefer rice hulls.

 

[Scrappy4]

Anyone use crushed lava rock? The red stuff (iron) - about 10x more 'holes' in the structure than pumice.

$40.00 per yard so I'm interested if anyone has used this in a soil mix.

Thanks!

CC

I'm using lava rock mixed with old recycled perlite this go round. The lava rock does looks huge compared with the tiny bits of perlite but I decided not to further crush it. But so far it seems to work fine....scrappy

 

[SeaMaiden]

Mad, I wanted to ask you ; why is it so important to screen out the fines? I mean, is it really that detrimental to the soil quality? Wouldn't microbes and roots further break everything down, thus recycling it all into the web?

I'm sorry if I missed a post addressing this, I'm using an entirely new piece of technology to me and I'm still learning.

 

[Scrappy4]

Mad, I wanted to ask you ; why is it so important to screen out the fines? I mean, is it really that detrimental to the soil quality? Wouldn't microbes and roots further break everything down, thus recycling it all into the web?

I'm sorry if I missed a post addressing this, I'm using an entirely new piece of technology to me and I'm still learning.

I'm not mad, but I can think of two possible problems. One is the ph thingy when using DE, and the other is aluminum becoming unbound, possibly with using chelating agents. It seems both could happen easier with smaller particle sizes. I'll be interested what mad says though....scrappy

 

[guest2012y]

I'm not mad, but I can think of two possible problems. One is the ph thingy when using DE, and the other is aluminum becoming unbound, possibly with using chelating agents. It seems both could happen easier with smaller particle sizes. I'll be interested what mad says though....scrappy

Wow man..good thoughts. Aluminum toxicity will make your worst growing mistake look mild in comparison. ..But yeah Mad,what up?

 

[wisco61]

soak test failed! don't use that stuff. calcined DE should be very hard and impervious to water and strong vinegar. it shouldn't fizz or bubble.

the reason it needs to be about 1/8th" is that as it gets smaller it acts as a moisture retention amendment more than anything. I believe what happens is that it starts holding water on the outside. those big chunky pieces hold it on the inside.

same goes for turface.

actually, the same principle applies to silt and clay. as your particles get smaller you retain more water.

from earlier in the thread.