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passive plant killer
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
S
SCROG McDuck
D9..
Do you still use turface for cloning or have you switched to coco?
Do they stay in ther untill they are ready for PPKs?
Also, I'm looking to gain experience with Jacks in the next 2 months while.. awiian Snow and LSD finish, in DWC..
I will put one LSD into the Jacks for comparison to another in Flora Micor/Bloom regiment.. 850ppms
I've been searching for a segment of posts that deals with Jacks+CN is used in DWC...
I thought I read about it somewhere.. is it doable? Post #s.. anyone?
November will bring drastic reconfiguration of the grow area and a 4'X4' 'room' area for ppks (x2) and a 3'x3' box for veg/cloning..
the tip and edge burn was not bad anyway but i'm used to seeing symptomless plants.
as knna said it turned out to be an overall concentration problem rather than an individual nutrient problem.
the calcium chloride experiment just did not supply enough nitrogen. it could have benefit as a modifier of nitrogen used in conjunction with the calcium nitrate.
when i began defoliating in flower i was running around 1.9 or 950 ppm. of course the individual reservoirs were a little higher than that.
my first reaction to the burn was to drop ec to 1.2, first with the calcium nitrate and then with the calcium chloride.
in both cases the burn symptoms disappeared as i progressed into newer plants.
plants began showing a little less dense bud structure so after a few harvests i bumped it back up to 1.8.
i've been running that for quite a while and just have the slightest tip burn now. no edge burn for some reason.
so, in view of this i'm going to run 1.5 for a while.
however, i've been DF'ing in veg for 4 weeks now and no plants are showing any displays.
as i would like to run one solution to all plants i'm looking for a compromise.
i have linked my volume tanks back up so i can go a week without mixing.
now that you mention it, i am thinking about some new stock. i'm looking now.
i'm leaning towards some bog, sol, and mr. nice stuff. any ideas?
i have some unidentified beans from a rather good predominately indica plant. huge tiger striped beans.
but i will always keep this swt #4. it is a great plant.
later
oldone
Member
How about a sativa or two? It would be great to see them grown in the mothership.
Also maybe think about femmed seeds. Saved me a lot of hassle.
Do you have enough experience with DFing to say it definitely increases yield?
see ya,
OO
controlled water table irrigation
controlled water table irrigation
After reading http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/ho/ho84/ho84.pdf, I was thinking of a system that used a water sensor to maintain the air gap. When the air gap gets too large and the water table drops that would trigger a top water pulse that would reestablish the water table.
Anyone have any ideas on a simple way to do this? I could use an electrical level sensor on my control bucket that would turn on my power to my cycle timer and pump. The water would fall, the cycle timer would water for a prescribed amount of time then would wait, and possibly water again depending if the first water has time to raise the water table, else it would water again. I'm just thinking the pulse watering should be based on more than just time. This would tie in the pulse frequency to the environment for a feedback loop which would automatically adjust to the environ diff such as temp and humid.
I'm starting to think that using containers that would allow the capillary action to water them completely and not depend on top watering may be easier. This would probably lead to short and wide containers if we needed large containers.
controlled water table irrigation
After reading http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/ho/ho84/ho84.pdf, I was thinking of a system that used a water sensor to maintain the air gap. When the air gap gets too large and the water table drops that would trigger a top water pulse that would reestablish the water table.
Anyone have any ideas on a simple way to do this? I could use an electrical level sensor on my control bucket that would turn on my power to my cycle timer and pump. The water would fall, the cycle timer would water for a prescribed amount of time then would wait, and possibly water again depending if the first water has time to raise the water table, else it would water again. I'm just thinking the pulse watering should be based on more than just time. This would tie in the pulse frequency to the environment for a feedback loop which would automatically adjust to the environ diff such as temp and humid.
I'm starting to think that using containers that would allow the capillary action to water them completely and not depend on top watering may be easier. This would probably lead to short and wide containers if we needed large containers.
I don't want my pulse to overflow and contaminate my root zone rez.
Might compromise a stable system. If you had one to begin with...
Which, you should know, IS A VERY BIG 'IF'.
Might compromise a stable system. If you had one to begin with...
Which, you should know, IS A VERY BIG 'IF'.
oldone
Member
something I missed...
Jack's + wicks = boredom (ie very healthy plants) but you know all this....
OO
Come on, Dude;
Jack's + wicks = boredom (ie very healthy plants) but you know all this....
OO
I'm talking about top watering to maintain the water table. How can a float valve supply water to the top of pots? A water sensor could open a valve or turn on a pump.
this link seems to suggest that a moving water table is a good thing to flush out gases, but that lowering it too much is a bad thing
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/NewCrops/cwt.pdf
C
Carl Carlson
I think I posted the purdue paper earlier in the thread.
Note that they followed some strict guidelines and had decided before hand on using calcined clay (profile and turface) as the substrate.
hey, McDuck!
i'm still using turface and flora nova bloom for cloning. in a wick cloner the combination is magic.
i've tried coco and jack's for cloning, and while they rooted, they just did not look as good by transplant.
i keep them in the cloners until transplant, no steps in between.
you will find the jack's to be the most stable hydro nute you've ever tried in ro water.
850 ppm jack's at the .5 conversion is achievable with 510 ppm jack's and 340 ppm calcium nitrate. 1/.67.
1.02 ec jack's and .68 calcium nitrate = 1.7 ec
i don't remember reading about anyone using it in dwc but it should work fine. very clean stuff.
let me know before you start building, i'd like to help.
later, d9
C
Carl Carlson
That's interesting, D9. As far as we can tell, the only real difference other than the actual nutrient ratios between the FNB and the Jack's is the 0.1% humic extracts derived from Leonardite in the FNB.
oldone
Member
Hi Carl,
I had been using FNB up until week 9 of flower. I found a coating of thick brown sludge over everything and my research suggests this is normal. We were speculating that the sludge could be screwing with my nute/ph balance.
My brief experience with Jacks is that it runs clean with no precipitate.
OO
Yeah, I know that you know that I know that you know that I know that....
I was just playing. Mostly at myself. Because my system is gloriously unstable. USER-ERrOR.
@jjfoo,
D9's PPK design makes use of the pulse feed to maintain media solution uniformity and stability. If you are top feeding based on sub-water-table-level by way of a water sensor, you may be allowing salts to come out of solution at the top of your media. When you do top feed, it seems possible that you will then flush them back into the bottom reservoir, thereby altering the concentrations of your feed batch. Can you adjust for this? Probably.
That said, I feel that this addition undermines the elegance of D9's current design.
Of course, the comments above presumes that your plant uptake is such that there is a drying cycle in the upper zone of the media between the on-off top feed cycle.
If your plant is drinking faster, then you are saturation feeding more often... and whatever comes of that comes of that.
You may be flushing root exudates into the feed batch. Whatever comes out of that comes out of that (but those sugars do feed microbes...).
If you plants are feeding unevenly, do you set up individual top-feed-controlling valves for each plant?
If you have a failure in the pump or control system, you have no passive back up to maintain the plant until you realize the what went wrong and take corrective action.
---
As you can see from this post, I strongly favor a float controlled lower reservoir, with automated pulse feedings compared to what you are suggesting.
---
I do not want to sound like I'm arbitrarily defending the existing PPK tech like some kind of adoring devotee.
Not to say that I'm not an adoring devotee.
But there is a cohesiveness in D9's design. Your proposed system is different from D9's, but might suit your needs and existing equipment better. Hell, it might grow better plants for reasons other than those I noted above.
Either way, I'd like to follow your progress. Start a thread with whatever design you choose?
C
Carl Carlson
Hi oldone,
I use the Peters Hydro, it's very similar to the Jacks. Less Mg and slightly less P.
I use the Peters Hydro, it's very similar to the Jacks. Less Mg and slightly less P.
oldone
Member
cool...is that a good thing?
C
Carl Carlson
It's no different, but it is the one I could get within driving distance.
i've still got some fem dp isis beans. very sativa. i had trouble getting a clone to root the first time, so i went ahead and grew out the seedling. very stinky during flower.
it's been my experience that i get more yield from clones than seeds so if i can't easily clone something i don't want to grow it. i'll try the isis again.
defoliating one time at the end of stretch definitely increased yield for me.
lately i've been DF'ing at the beginning of flower and then again at the end of stretch. these plants are getting really thick showing heavy bud development by the end of flower.
we'll see what effect it has on yield.
for 4 weeks i've been DF'ing in veg to try to make a smaller structure plant with the same yield.
it makes noticeably closer internodes and a shorter, but stronger branch structure. still got a ways to go to get results.
i had to back off on eight plant positions in veg around the one light as the overcrowding was shaping the plants in a way that changed the yield for the worse.
i get a greater yield with 7 plants when grown without DF'ing. it's possible that DF'ing will allow me to go back to 8 again.
indoors it's the application of light that is our biggest challenge.
