passive plant killer

[*mistress*]

Last night I had a rude surprise when I opened the flower area. A large limb of a plant I was going to harvest in about 4 days had broken off during the dark period and on it's way down it took another one with it. I would say about 40% of the plants mass was hanging by pieces of bark. So we had to spend a couple of hours trimming that we hadn't planned on.

that happen many moments in tree garden. there are couple prevent techs...

this maybe 1 tech to prevent breaks:
tree support. teehee...

notes...
maybe, duzens of branches break, over galazxies in imagination. maybe find that a branch from a tree can easily survive for 1-4 days, just laying on ground.
branches have lots of water stored in branch itself, even when it evaporate from leaves & droop/wilt.

in imagination, re-attached ++ snapped branches... from duc to electrik taep... but thred seel taep work very well. it elastic, stetch, wrap & seel good. it wrap similar to celofane/plastic wrap for food... & seel tightly back together, the parts severed. the pl@nt should mend & vascular parts re-connect.

the same taep can also be used for grafting... to make even bigger tree, in same tyme...

silica...

no, i haven't used any yet but lately i've been breaking branches moving plants into the flower room and trying to squeeze through them. they do seem to be a little more fragile. i believe i'll try some. thanks

effective rate of silicon is only 50-100ppm.
2.5ml(1/2 tsp)/gal k-si =
51ppm si...16ppm k - every/every other feed...

place in tank 1st... then adjust ph, as silicate make ph rise, noticeably.

can also foliar @ same rate, or less...adding surfacant... no need to decrease ph of foliar, as leaves prefer slightly higher ph: 6.2-7.0...

 

[delta9nxs]

hi, mistress! i've got to go to the big city tomorrow and i'll get some silica while i'm there.

i'm also going to start tying them up more.

fortunately, this plant was close to harvest anyway but i have had them break early in flower.

i've been able to save some by tying and taping but i have had a few that were just losses.

thank you for the input.

d9

 

[delta9nxs]

i caught the flower room just as the lights were firing up and got a few random shots.

 

[oldone]

Hi D9,

I got my Jack's so I need some help.

I use Canna Coco which is supposed to be rinsed completely at the factory and my testing confirms there is no salt buildup. I remember you use Atami(sp?).

1. Is your coco pre-treated?
2. Do you do anything special before using it?
3. What pre treatment would you recommend in my situation?

Thanks man, Later...
OO

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, i was just talking to you!

the atami is pretreated and shipped moist. but i wash the hell out of with tap water anyway and then pretreat it with the jack's mix at full strength. ec 2.1 by pouring about 4 gals through a 5 gal bucket real slow as soon as it drains completely from the tap water wash. so the tap water washes the medium and the nutrient mix washes out the tap water. or a lot of it anyway.

home depot has recently begun selling a compressed brick that expands to 2.5 cu ft i think. it's 7.95 us. i bought one and soaked it in 20 gallons of water overnight and stirred it around after it broke up. then raked it out onto a screen and rinsed with the hose.

i could not tell the difference between this stuff and the 28 dollar 1.5 cu ft bag of atami. same consistency, fiber particle size mix and so on. it was dirty. it had maybe a quart of black sand in it and some rocks but all that dropped to the bottom of the big tub.

i mixed it with an equal volume of atami stuff and have been using it for about a month. seems ok.

check your thread, later

 

[oldone]

hey, I was just reading you...

I went through the same thing with a generic brick from HD. I rinsed a liter of packed coco with 2 liters of RO and got .4 EC. The coco itself was comprised of fibers from 2" long down to dust. Seemed to be lots of dirt too. Then tried a bag of Botanicare and it was 2.0 EC in the same test. Its consistency was terrific though. Then I found cana and it was .2 in the test. Been using it ever since.

Lovely plants as always,
OO

 

[jjfoo]

edit: I found the answer already. You are using the larger batch mix.

by the way, are you assuming hanna uses .5 for the ppm factor? If so, I have a hanna that uses .7.

just received Jack's Professional Hydroponic 5-12-26. The usage guidelines suggest equal parts of jack's with calcium nitrate. I measured the EC of equal parts of water (in two containers) which had both salts mixed in. It seems like the ratio of .67 is a bit lower on the cal nit than what j.r. peters recommends, is there a reason for this?

 

[delta9nxs]

hi jjfoo,

i don't know much about hannas but if you are using 1382 calibration fluid it's for .5 meters.

the lab people at peters told me they used .5 meters.

using their equal parts physical volume per gal you should be getting around 1050 ppm at .5.

this can also be reached using 630 ppm jack's and 420 ppm calcium nitrate at .5. 420 divided by 630 is .67.

i'm currently running 900 ppm achieved by using 540 ppm jack's and 360 ppm calcium nitrate, again at the .5 conversion. again .67.

this ratio was determined by me for precision mixing using meters.

dry proportions are equal physical volume.

it can also be mixed by weight, which will not be equal parts.

are you using a ppk type device?

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Happy Birthday Passive Plant Killer Thread!

 

[oldone]

Happy Birthday Passive Plant Killer Thread!

How rude of you to realize this before me...!

Hey D9, Happy Birthday from me too...
OO

 

[cactusjack]

Happy Birthday PPK!!

Happy Birthday PPK!!

Hey Delta!

Congratulations on having maintained this terrific thread for an entire year!


Who'd a thunk it?!

I can't remember ever learning so much from a single thread and its been great entertainment along the way. The ppk has certainly proved its worth!

I was wondering when you were going to start snapping limbs as your yield increased from plain old outstanding to completely obscene levels. My plants are about half the size of yours but they still are looking like marionettes with all the string tying them to the ceiling.

Silicon... Doh! I used it way back when in DWC with good results but it never occurred to me to start using it again. I just broke out the string and got busy putting hooks in the ceiling. I have an unopened quart of the stuff sitting on the shelf collecting dust (Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt line). Gotta give it a try again. It produced a noticeably sturdier plant and also seemed to increase heat tolerance when I was growing in tight spaces during hot summers.

Regarding the coco blocks at Home Depot. Ace Hardware sells a (similar?) coco product called Element 6 Soil Block that I have been interested in trying. A neighbor used it a couple years ago for his container vegetables and it worked well after a thorough wash. It runs a bit over $9 for 2 cuft. It sounds like the the Home Depot coco is even cheaper. Great find and I'm glade to hear it seems to perform well. I may have to give it a try. I paid $35 each for my bags of Atami and I drove over 300 miles round trip for the privilege!

 

[SCROG McDuck]

Delta9, the last time I've read a thread that is full of good,
detailed in simple english, (most anyways) 'useful' was "Ask Lucas".. as a matter of fact, your demeanor is similar to his..
Respecting your very hard (to me, anyway) work and observations..

Any ways.. I agree with CJ.. and I can't read it fast enough.
Iforgot silica too!.. TKS Mistress..

Thanks.. & >> HB!

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, people! thank you all very much! when i started this thread i had no idea it would go this long or that i would learn what i have learned. it's been a lot of fun. you folks have made it that way. i've really enjoyed interacting with everyone and exchanging ideas. a most excellent journey of discovery.

d9

 

[jjfoo]

hi jjfoo,

i don't know much about hannas but if you are using 1382 calibration fluid it's for .5 meters.

the lab people at peters told me they used .5 meters.

why are you picking 1382 out of the blue for this reply? Is this a common fluid? I have a bottle of HI70442 and another bottle of general hydro that says 2190 ppM (442 scale).

I read a manual for a hanna meter that says it has a variable conversion.

I thought you where thinking that in general hanna uses .5, I just wanted to say that isn't what I have seen.

My meter is the HI9813, if I measure some water that is EC .5 then hit ppM, it says 347, so it seems like I'm seeing a .7 factor.

The rated max for my meter is this: EC 4 or tds 1999, which looks like .5. This is really weird.

using their equal parts physical volume per gal you should be getting around 1050 ppm at .5.

this can also be reached using 630 ppm jack's and 420 ppm calcium nitrate at .5. 420 divided by 630 is .67.

i'm currently running 900 ppm achieved by using 540 ppm jack's and 360 ppm calcium nitrate, again at the .5 conversion. again .67.

this ratio was determined by me for precision mixing using meters.

dry proportions are equal physical volume.

it can also be mixed by weight, which will not be equal parts.

since ppM is not actually ppM when using a EC meter, why even talk in ppM? it is not accurate... Why not just state things in EC? Since you told me your conversion, I'm just calculating the EC from the numbers you give, if you gave EC, it would be less complex (no conversion steps).

I'm using yara calcnit. It is meant for hydro usage but it is in little tiny beads. Maybe this explains why my tsp is weaker than my tsp of jacks. I don't like mixing in one container because I can't go back once I'm on the second ingredient (cal nit). I mix in two 5 gal buckets then pour into my res and dilute.

are you using a ppk type device?

I have 5 gallon buckets on the floor that are connected with tubbing. Inside is an upside down pot with another 5 gallon bucket on top. I have a control bucket I use to pump out the runoff. I top water for my main watering. I don't know how much the wicks contribute because the top of the water and the bottom of my container of coco is maybe 5-6 inches. Since I have added the wicks they don't dry out as much, so it seems to be contributing somewhat.

 

[jjfoo]

I want to make sure I am understanding you. You are using EC to make your .67 ratio and getting that from the bulk mixing instructions which use weight. Didn't you say that EC is the same by volume but not weight? If this is so, isn't it a problem to use .67, which come from the 86 oz / 130 oz, and use it for EC? I don't know if I am being clear... I'm trying to say that if you go by weight that it would be a different ratio than if you go by EC. Am I mistaken?

 

[SCROG McDuck]

jjfoo.. with hanna I have (combo) if you hold the off button down
a second or two/3.. it gives a CALCulation set up area where it
can be adjusted from .5 conv to .7, either way.. among other things I know nothing about... beta???

Just because you tap water is 300+ doesn't meen it is .7 conversion.. although if it isnt .7 you would have Twater PPMs @ 500+...

EC vs PPMs.. I don't know but like you said, EC is EC and PPMs..
well, PPMs can varry from meter to meter..
I don't know why I use PPMs and not EC... greater PPM numbers gives me mental satifaction that there are enough nutes??????
I DONO..

 

[delta9nxs]

Quotes by jjfoo

“why are you picking 1382 out of the blue for this reply? Is this a common fluid? I have a bottle of HI70442 and another bottle of general hydro that says 2190 ppM (442 scale).”

1382 is the tds calibration solution ppm for .5 meters.

“I read a manual for a hanna meter that says it has a variable conversion.”

interesting, I didn't know that.

“I thought you where thinking that in general hanna uses .5, I just wanted to say that isn't what I have seen.”

no, I was just trying to find out what yours was.

“My meter is the HI9813, if I measure some water that is EC .5 then hit ppM, it says 347, so it seems like I'm seeing a .7 factor.”

I don't know anything about that. Maybe someone here with hanna experience can help.

“The rated max for my meter is this: EC 4 or tds 1999, which looks like .5. This is really weird.”

certainly does sound like a .5 meter.

“since ppM is not actually ppM when using a EC meter, why even talk in ppM? it is not accurate... Why not just state things in EC? Since you told me your conversion, I'm just calculating the EC from the numbers you give, if you gave EC, it would be less complex (no conversion steps).”

I agree totally, ec is a much simpler way of interpreting concentration. Unfortunately, there are a lot of both type meters out there and whenever one person has a ppm meter and the other one has an ec meter one of the parties has to convert.

“I'm using yara calcnit. It is meant for hydro usage but it is in little tiny beads. Maybe this explains why my tsp is weaker than my tsp of jacks. I don't like mixing in one container because I can't go back once I'm on the second ingredient (cal nit). I mix in two 5 gal buckets then pour into my res and dilute.”

yes, there are three ways to mix.

The first is by physical volume as instructed. A teaspoon of each in a gallon of reverse osmosis or distilled water should produce ec 2.1 or 1050 ppm at the .5 conversion.

Of that, once in solution, ec 1.26 will be jack's and ec .84 will be calcium nitrate. The 1/.67 ratio. Equal physical volume does not produce equal concentration of each substance.

So, knowing the ratio, we can mix any strength we want by using a meter.

For ec 1.5, for example, you would mix ec .9 jack's and ec .6 calcium nitrate. .6 divided by .9 is .67. The big advantage that mixing with a meter provides is that you can use an unknown quantity of water. You can just fill a mixing tub with some water, stir in some jack's until you hit your target ec with it, then stir in some calcium nitrate until you get the total you want.

the last way to mix is by weight. This requires a good digital gram scale and is more useful for folks that don't have a meter.

“I want to make sure I am understanding you. You are using EC to make your .67 ratio and getting that from the bulk mixing instructions which use weight.”

Yes. They are telling you that 130 oz's of jack's per 1000 gals provides 630 ppm or ec 1.26 elemental concentration. Since with the addition of the calcium nitrate brings total ec to 2.1, the calcium nitrate in solution should be ec .84. 1.26+.84=2.1 .84 divided by 1.26 = .67.

“Didn't you say that EC is the same by volume but not weight?”

I can't seem to find where I said that. Could you direct me to the post?

“If this is so, isn't it a problem to use .67, which come from the 86 oz / 130 oz, and use it for EC? I don't know if I am being clear... I'm trying to say that if you go by weight that it would be a different ratio than if you go by EC. Am I mistaken?”

Your solution ratio should be the same regardless of the method you used to reach it. That is, if you want to stick to their guidelines. You may very well have reason's to mix in different proportions. Some folks want to reduce N in flower for example.

Well, I hope I have been able to help.

d9



hey, scrog!

 

[jjfoo]

Why must one use a digital scale? I have a balance scale that can measure 1/10 of a gram. It is probably more accurate than most digital scales. I think it is safer to advise people to use a scale that is accurate enough. It seems that many people assume digital's are somehow more accurate than beam scales.

By the way my meter's conversion is this:

TDS Conversion Factor 0.56 to 0.72 ppm = 1 S/c

That explains why I see it close to .7 at a lower EC and the max is .5

anyways, I'll stick with using EC so I don't really care about the conversion

If I buy another meter, I'll probably want one that has a linear conversion across the range

“Didn't you say that EC is the same by volume but not weight?”

I can't seem to find where I said that. Could you direct me to the post?

You actually said the opposite, I went back (to post 888). Unless I misunderstood.

 

[jjfoo]

jjfoo.. with hanna I have (combo) if you hold the off button down
a second or two/3.. it gives a CALCulation set up area where it
can be adjusted from .5 conv to .7, either way.. among other things I know nothing about... beta???

not on my meter... Mine is a variable conversion rate, which I don't really like. I only use EC so it isn't a real big deal.

Just because you tap water is 300+ doesn't meen it is .7 conversion.. although if it isnt .7 you would have Twater PPMs @ 500+...

huh? My meter is variable, at high EC levels it is .5 at low ec it is .7

EC vs PPMs.. I don't know but like you said, EC is EC and PPMs..
well, PPMs can varry from meter to meter..
I don't know why I use PPMs and not EC... greater PPM numbers gives me mental satifaction that there are enough nutes??????
I DONO..

no offense, but this sounds irrational, just use EC

Maybe I'm irrational, but I can't understand why any body measuring ionic nutes would use any thing but EC, people use say PPM are really just using a degraded form of EC (some inconsistent multiplier...)

 

[jjfoo]

Just wanted to report my measurements, which confirm what you have told me...

I have two buckets with about 7 liters in each, I added one gram of cal nit and jacks, each EC was the same about 3

I then divided by .67 and made the jacks 4.47 mixed together and diluted to 1.4 for my mix...

I've been wanted to make my own nutes as fatman teaches. This is a big step in the right direction.

Just wanted to confirm, you are using this ratio of jacks and calnit for your whole crop from veg to flower?

Since I have a huge jug of cns17 bloom, I'd like to run then side by side and see if I can find any diff, but even if I did, it would be really hard to simply say it is caused by the diff nutes, so I don't think I'll bother...

This thread has finally convinced me to switch to dry nutes. Thanks for all your hard work and taken the time to document so much.