passive plant killer

[delta9nxs]

what we need is for one of these California boys to man up and take some "medical" plant samples to the local extension office for up to date tissue testing.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=181405

offsite

hey, carl! jrpeters does analysis on ground up plant samples for $36 i think. i don't think they even try to identify the plant it came from.

i reread that hemp analysis, again very interesting. huge amounts of N in the leaves.

the other link doesn't seem to work.

later

 

[Carl Carlson]

D9, I haven't seen you post much about flushing, so am curious what you think.

Based on my experience with drain to waste applications, it's a myth.

Harsh smoke = overfeeding which is no doubt easier to do in closed systems
smooth smoke = not overfeeding
overwhelmingly good taste = genetics and ?????

IMO, it's not flushing that leads to great taste if the genetics aren't there and the plant was overfed to begin with.

I've mixed up a batch of an organic soilless mix to find out exactly what the difference is with the varieties here in the cupboard right now. Blue Haze (Homegrown Fantaseeds) Blueberry (Dutch Passion) Black Domina (Sensi Seeds)

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

D9: "i am amazed that plant looks so good considering the temps. apparently something is negating the effect of all that heat."

I think you're just jealous that I'm more passive in killing plants.

Retarded high temps? Check

Super low humidity? Check

Doing anything to fix any of the above? Nope.

Can you be more passive? Nope.

I dunno... you said I wouldn't have to worry about res temps in a PPK. You didn't mean running a room at 110+ degrees, so hot that even the volume res outside the tent hits 105?

You should be more clear. People's feelings might get hurt.

(Girls are really growing right now. I think I can flip in four or six days.)

*EDIT* I didn't check my facts before typing, but I think they'll do analysis on nutes in solution too... for $36.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Yeah, the other link doesn't work but it's a N sap analysis tool being played with on a thread over on the farm.

Summary: There are testers for a variety of nutes. Each individual tester runs about $300, and are apparently touchy with a tendency to drift. They seem best used as long term analysis tools to establish average readings over phases of growth to cross check against nute/environmental factor changes.

There huge variations in N content (it appears) from leaf to leaf, hour by hour. (Hence the need to average everything out over time.)

 

[oldone]

the hang up i'm running into with vertical slits is finding a way to cut them accurately.

i'm thinking 1/4 inch slits.

Hi D9,

Just a quick suggestion for you...

I have found the key to cutting pots accurately is to use a fixed cutter and move the pot against it. Holding the pot and not the blade gives you much more control. This method works best with slightly (as apposed to heavily) tapered pots.

So for a 10" dia pot clamp a box cutter blade securely to a 5" high stack of wood. Then with the pot on its side, *very carefully* push it against the blade and cut. You might drill 2 holes for top and bottom before cutting.

Be real careful you dont slip because that fixed blade will cut you bad. I only expose a 1/4" or so for safety.

It worked for me,
OO

 

[oldone]

Ph tester advice

Ph tester advice

My cheapo Milwaukee ph600 pen died (the f'ing POS) and I need to replace it.

What do you folks use? How do you store it?

Thanks,
OO

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

OO:

I've had the most reliable luck with an Oakton water proof pen. I've tried other systems, and come back to it twice. There are storage solutions, I sometimes keep it in a cup of PH7 calibration fluid, or sometimes just in tap.

 

[oldone]

OO:

I've had the most reliable luck with an Oakton water proof pen. I've tried other systems, and come back to it twice. There are storage solutions, I sometimes keep it in a cup of PH7 calibration fluid, or sometimes just in tap.

Hi IF,

I stored my Milwaukee in Ph 7 and it still died...is the Oakton that much better?

Thanks,
OO

 

[petemoss]

Hi IF,

I stored my Milwaukee in Ph 7 and it still died...is the Oakton that much better?

Thanks,
OO

I use the Oakton PH2 pen and keep it wet with tap or Ph 4 calibration solution. My one year old Oakton was starting to fail so I got another one. They are fairly cheap ($60 incl shipping from instrumart.com) No matter which brand you buy, any Ph pen will eventually die. You can get a more expensive Ph pen with replaceable sensor but they cost over $140 and the replacement tip will be at least $40, so to me, paying $60 every year is not bad. Sometimes you get lucky and they last for two years.

 

[delta9nxs]

Hey, Fat J, do you test kief, too? I've got a bunch I think may be tainted with too much thc for the human mind to handle.


Knna, i'm not seeing any burn yet in flower at 2.1 ec using the jack's/ calcium chloride but I think you are right about it not being a deficiency. We tend to label things in order to define them.

If N is involved it would have to be as a stimulant to K brought about by defoliating somehow.

Nothing is showing yet but it is still premature.


Mistress, I have been defoliating 2 plants a week apart in veg and am getting no symptoms.

This is using the jack's/calcium nitrate at 2.1 ec, the same mix that produced the symptoms in flower.

The difference may be that i'm selectively taking leaves a few at a time.

I did not correct ph as it was around 5.6 or so.


Carl, using this device I don't think flushing is necessary as I get no build up. The smoke is smooth and tasty.


IF, I certainly did not mean 100 degree temps. I am used to bio buckets and rdwc where I was trying to keep res temps below 75.

it never occurred to me that someone would be dealing with temps that hot. To me this is an amazing thing. There is still a lot to learn.


OO, thanks!

Hey, Pete!

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

D9 wrote: "I certainly did not mean 100 degree temps. I am used to bio buckets and rdwc where I was trying to keep res temps below 75. It never occurred to me that someone would be dealing with temps that hot. To me this is an amazing thing. There is still a lot to learn."

There's a desert grower over on boards.cannabis.com called Rusty Trichome who runs his garden out of an outdoor shed that hits temperatures you would use to broil steak. I read how he managed heat a while back, and his temps can up to 110, so I'm not entirely scared.

I don't change anything as temps will be falling sooner or later, and I have the best ventilation system I can design and still be comfortable with my security.

When will you chop one of the ladies with the new formula?

How are the little veg girls reacting to continuous prunage?

 

[delta9nxs]

every week each plant has been under the influence of any change i've recently made a different amount of time.

no one plant has been under the effect of just one change at any given time.

so what i see are more like trends than results on individual plants.

i know that when i went to 1.2 ec in flower using calcium nitrate the symptoms stopped but not all at once as plants that were older were moved through and newer plants did not display.

with the latest change to 2.1 ec using calcium chloride i haven't seen anything yet but it's still early. i would expect to see some kind of display by the end of this week if it's going to occur.

but i'm looking at more than just a symptom. i'm also looking for changes in growth such as bud density and size.

i'm currently feeding the 2 i've started DF'ing in veg 2.1 ec and they are not showing any problems yet.

last weeks plant dried to 14.10. i spent seven hours today whacking another good size one. i think it will go over a lb.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

How's the stature and the shape of the DF veggy girls? Does it look like the gradual defoliation is creating a structure that will suit your system?

In my little garden, the set up provides for much easier access to one plant over the other (the one on the right), and invariably when I check in to say "hi" I'd pinch a few shade leaves out of the canopy closest to the light. The girl on the left was less harassed.

The unmolested, left-hand girl bulked faster, but her canopy was dominated by sun leaves. When I really took the time to to inspect and check for pests, etc, I realized that the interior of the plant had significant stretching between inter-nodes. On the casually and continuously DF'd girl, the inter-nodes were sub 1/2 inch, with retarded secondary growth (with secondary growth of of that, etc.). Some of the deeper structure on the girl that didn't get the regular haircut had two to three inches of strength between nodes, and had virtually no secondary growth.

Right now, I'm guessing *mistress*' guidance of every four days might create a more productive structure than both of my rather sporadic and haphazard approaches.

 

[delta9nxs]

How's the stature and the shape of the DF veggy girls? Does it look like the gradual defoliation is creating a structure that will suit your system?

In my little garden, the set up provides for much easier access to one plant over the other (the one on the right), and invariably when I check in to say "hi" I'd pinch a few shade leaves out of the canopy closest to the light. The girl on the left was less harassed.

The unmolested, left-hand girl bulked faster, but her canopy was dominated by sun leaves. When I really took the time to to inspect and check for pests, etc, I realized that the interior of the plant had significant stretching between inter-nodes. On the casually and continuously DF'd girl, the inter-nodes were sub 1/2 inch, with retarded secondary growth (with secondary growth of of that, etc.). Some of the deeper structure on the girl that didn't get the regular haircut had two to three inches of strength between nodes, and had virtually no secondary growth.

Right now, I'm guessing *mistress*' guidance of every four days might create a more productive structure than both of my rather sporadic and haphazard approaches.

hey, i've got one about a week and one about 2 weeks in veg that i have been DF'ing. it does look like the nodes are closer together. it would be nice if i can get the same yields with a smaller plant.

last night it looked like i am starting to get a little burn on the DF'ed plants in flower so it is probably just concentration and not a specific nutrient.

i also don't like the plant color. it is a little too lime green for me. i think the DF'ed plants need the extra N.

i'll probably try ec 1.5 - 1.8 of the standard mix tonight.

later

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

These are my girls when they first entered the PPK:

This is the lady on the right, 23 days of veg:

And the lady on the left:

The left girl is wider than the right girl, and there heights are similar. The shade leaves are eleven fingered now, with the largest leaves eight inches long.

My involvement with them since transplant consists of regular visits, the impulsive plucking of shade leaves, and topping of the bulk reservoir with a nute program that sits around 3.1-1-3.8 using my existing Botanicare TriFlex nutes with Karma and MagICal (using to bump N levels up). I haven't taken the time to run a full micro calculation. I have not changed out the plant reservoirs at all.

My EC in the plant res has run between 2.0-2.8. The variations in EC is due to my playing with concentrations in the bulk res, not an inherent instability in the system.

The pH range in the plant reservoirs sits around 6.1-6.3. My bulk res sits around 4.5 usually (again, depending on the nute concentration), so there must be a tendency for the plant res to drift up with my food source.

So, to summarize the summary: I am just mixing nutes, and topping off the res. I am not adjusting anything.

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, IF, thanks for the pics! your plants look great!

i'm still astonished about the temperatures.

i may have missed it before, but what is that plant?

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

She's one of DJ Short's FLOs. She's a hybrid that is supposed to be sativa dominant. In her youth, she leans towards the indica side, and then really starts to throw out longer slimmer fingers once her veg is really established.

I've been trying to grow her out successfully for almost a year now. I keep having system failures. My first cycle, I pulled some pop-corn with all the qualities I'm looking for... and I lost the last girl in the RDWC.

U.G.U just posted about a highly toxic additive being used to plasticize the tubing being sold by the major hydroponics distributors. I've had that tube every one of my failures, and the problems I've had is consistent with the poisoning associated with its use. So its out of the system, and heading for the dumpster. Hopefully, nothing too bad has happened on this run, and maybe the girls will really perk up now that it's out of their lives?

I have a plan to start a perpetual cycle in the PPKs, but may have to relocate before that can happen. The girls are pretty good, even with toxic components and 30 degree temperature swings (yeah... that'd be from 73-105). I can't wait to see how they'll do with reasonable temps, maybe some CO2 supplementation (all that's sitting on the shelf too), and way more room.

After the shots I posted, I pushed through with an aggressive pre-flowering prune/clone/training session. I pulled out all interior growth that was purely vertical, thinned the side on the light down to virtual nakedness, and tied all lateral growth to the sides and down.

I pulled out a lot of veg material. I set up four clone containers similar to what you posted a few pages back, with three cuts in each. I also put another thirty into Rapid Rooters. Seems excessive, but she's a real bitch to clone. I'll be tossing all but four of the healthiest clones when they root. I rarely see anything in less than two weeks, at which time they generally look a little warn out by all of the sitting around. A

Anyway, I'd love to give them a few more weeks, but they're hitting my minimum height for the flip, and I have plans in two months... so I'm probably going to put 'em into flower in the next few days (when they look like they've recovered from the beating I just gave them).

OH... and I do need to get Jacks. I know.

 

[InducedSerenity]

I don't really have anything of value to add at the moment but I just wanted to thank you for the regular updates and insightful dialog.

Thanks!

iS

 

[delta9nxs]

She's one of DJ Short's FLOs. She's a hybrid that is supposed to be sativa dominant. In her youth, she leans towards the indica side, and then really starts to throw out longer slimmer fingers once her veg is really established.

I've been trying to grow her out successfully for almost a year now. I keep having system failures. My first cycle, I pulled some pop-corn with all the qualities I'm looking for... and I lost the last girl in the RDWC.

U.G.U just posted about a highly toxic additive being used to plasticize the tubing being sold by the major hydroponics distributors. I've had that tube every one of my failures, and the problems I've had is consistent with the poisoning associated with its use. So its out of the system, and heading for the dumpster. Hopefully, nothing too bad has happened on this run, and maybe the girls will really perk up now that it's out of their lives?

I have a plan to start a perpetual cycle in the PPKs, but may have to relocate before that can happen. The girls are pretty good, even with toxic components and 30 degree temperature swings (yeah... that'd be from 73-105). I can't wait to see how they'll do with reasonable temps, maybe some CO2 supplementation (all that's sitting on the shelf too), and way more room.

After the shots I posted, I pushed through with an aggressive pre-flowering prune/clone/training session. I pulled out all interior growth that was purely vertical, thinned the side on the light down to virtual nakedness, and tied all lateral growth to the sides and down.

I pulled out a lot of veg material. I set up four clone containers similar to what you posted a few pages back, with three cuts in each. I also put another thirty into Rapid Rooters. Seems excessive, but she's a real bitch to clone. I'll be tossing all but four of the healthiest clones when they root. I rarely see anything in less than two weeks, at which time they generally look a little warn out by all of the sitting around. A

Anyway, I'd love to give them a few more weeks, but they're hitting my minimum height for the flip, and I have plans in two months... so I'm probably going to put 'em into flower in the next few days (when they look like they've recovered from the beating I just gave them).

OH... and I do need to get Jacks. I know.

that's a plant i'd like to play with. it has the "bush" characteristics i like. you should get some serious smoke this time.

i bought that cheap drip line from lowes. seems ok so far. only paid 11 cents a foot.

i really like the perpetual cycle as it allows me to have more plants in the space i have because they are not all the same size. cuts the work up into smaller, more manageable sections.

one word of warning about my veg area. i built it 7x7 ft trying to save a little floor space in the room it's in. i'm now kicking myself in the ass for not building it at least 8x8. this is for a single vertical 1K.

i'm running 7 plants in veg again instead of eight.

with eight i was not happy with the way they grew and shaped. poked out more on the front and not as full on the sides. too much plant material for the space. those plants are gonna cost me a little yield. i'm sure i'll get more yield with a seven week veg than an eight week one.

i don't know about the defoliation in veg yet. i've got 3 in there now and will do one more. then go back to DF'ing at end of stretch until i see some results.

i have gone back to feeding both veg and flower ec 1.8 with jack's and calcium nitrate. defoliated plants really seem to enjoy the extra N. this will let me link my volume tanks again to extend the time between mixing.

 

[delta9nxs]

I don't really have anything of value to add at the moment but I just wanted to thank you for the regular updates and insightful dialog.

Thanks!

iS

hi, IS! thank you!

i read your thread and must say that you are doing a great job of your first grow.

i hate to appear to be a shameless proselytizer but i feel you are an ideal candidate to try this set up.

several times in your thread you mentioned the amount of time you spend on growing.

you are also worried about your plants all the time. as well you should be.

from having done a lot of dwc and rdwc myself i know how fast things can go bad.

you find yourself constantly preoccupied with monitoring your grow.

the ppk in either version is as close to trouble free, reliable growing as i have been able to achieve.

to date i have never lost a plant in one of these.

my wife says i didn't sleep for a couple of years worried about plants all the time.

i sleep like a baby now.

let me know if i can help in any way.

later, d9