passive plant killer

[Carl Carlson]

FYI: http://www.hydro-gardens.com/51126.htm

D9, are you familiar with the name Tom Ericsson?

http://web1.msue.msu.edu/mastergard...newsletters/2006-11-Midland-TheGreenScene.pdf

http://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics...mula-recipe-scratch-really-3.html#post3725421

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0313391729338.html

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, carl! thanks for the links! i've read them once and will go back over them. there are some interesting statements made in them. i've read something by ericsson before, but i can't remember what it is right now.

i'm still running the jack's hydroponic formula and i'm real happy with it. the same strength from 8" clones to 5 foot plants ready to whack. Rapid growth in veg and hard, dense frosted up nugs. Same formula, same strength throughout life.

Incredible stability. I checked one at random in veg today and it was 907 ppm @ 5.8. all 16 reservoirs will also read within 75-80 points total spread from hi to low and ph will be from 5.4-6.1. I am only dumping 3 gals per week in each system. This since 3-15. I am not getting salt build up. The medium never dries out. Ever. From coming out of the package to harvest it is being maintained at a constant moisture content.

I am currently trying the jack's at 650 ppm and the calcium nitrate at 250, bringing it to 900 ppm approx as opposed to their initial starting point of 846 ppm. I have also stopped adding ph up. At the 900 ppm dose the ph in the volume tanks runs at 5.2. As soon as it hits the floor level part of the system it goes up and then stabilizes at the figures mentioned above.

I think i'm getting better trich development but we'll never know how much is from the jack's and how much is from the improved light arrangement, since both were initiated at about the same time.

Here are a few random shots of the redone lighting and the plants. 5K in flower on 9 plants. All hortilux. Every plant being hit with two lights simultaneously except the first week.

The one in the left foreground is still 3 ½ weeks from whacking. Those are jack's buds. I like it better than maxibloom and flora nova. The ratios must be nearly perfect. Notice how close it is to the chem-gro formula. Somebody's been doing some tissue analysis.

Well, later on

 

[oldone]

It's your fault...

It's your fault...

Beautiful plants D9 as always.

Ok I give, I'm converting it my mini cab over to mini PPKs (mPPKs?). It just looks so simple and may be the ultimate KISS style.

I'm thinking about grow container sizes at different stages of growth. I'm starting from seeds (GHS Arjan's Haze#3) and will use coco for everything, so...

Seedling 2" net pot
Veg 16 - 32 oz beer cups or net pots
Flower 1 gal
sound reasonable?

The veg mPPK will be rectangular (16" x 10") using a coco depth of 4" - 6". Rez depth to be ~4". The seed and veg pots will be placed into it.

Not sure about the flower mPPKs. They will be self contained and I only need 2. Both flower and veg rezzes will be connected to a control bucket. I am looking for a floor to coco top height of 13". I also want to attach individual scrog screens.

I bought a 5lb block of coco at HD, PlantBest's BeatsPeat. I have played with about a cupful and am surprised by how fine some of it is. I guess most of that will get washed out during pretreat. I this a good thing?


Thanks for you help as always,
OO

 

[Carl Carlson]

I should have known you had seen those links before. I'm totally fascinated with the idea of using 3-1-2 and 3-1-4 ratios for everything.

great pics, D9. Your variety is SweetTooth?

by the way, CNS17 coco bloom @ 25 ml / gallon:

n 152
p 66
k 189
mg 38
s 86
ca 152

CNS17 hydro grow is close, but the coco bloom formula is much closer to the Jacks + Calcinit

several of the Botanicare bottled products follow those ratios, but with varying amounts of Ca. PowerPlant (also a grow formula), PureBlendPro grow and from Canna - the Terra Vega is also close. The point is that all of this, your evidence included, knocks out of the park the notion that one needs a veg and bloom formula. So much marketing bullshit is poured into (pun intended) nutes, but that is a fact of economics.

I figure the Jack's is 40-50% less expensive...

 

[Work2much]

I should have known you had seen those links before. I'm totally fascinated with the 3-1-2 and 3-1-4 ratios.

great pics, D9. Your variety is SweetTooth?

by the way, CNS17 coco bloom @ 25 ml / gallon:

n 152
p 66
k 189
mg 38
s 86
ca 152

CNS17 hydro grow is close, but the coco bloom formula is much closer to the Jacks + Calcinit

several of the Botanicare bottled products follow those ratios, but with varying amounts of Ca. PowerPlant (also a grow formula), PureBlendPro grow and from Canna - the Terra Vega is also close. The point is that all of this, your evidence included, knocks out of the park the notion that one needs a veg and bloom formula. So much marketing bullshit is poured into (pun intended) nutes, but that is a fact of economics.

I figure the Jack's is 40-50% less expensive...

I've been eyeballing the Jacks forever. What amount, if any, of Sulpher should we add to complete it in addition to the Cal nitrate? The Peter's already has it, but seems harder to find for purchase then the Jacks.

 

[Carl Carlson]

Are Jacks and Peters not the same thing? I think the Jacks has 8% S.

 

[Carl Carlson]

root porn from one of my vegging plants - roughly 4 weeks from seed - from CFL - to 400w MH to 1000 HPS


not a thread hijack, more of a consultation with D9:

no pwt when using coco, dtw?

1 gallon blow-molded round pots with a mesh like bottom, i.e. lots of open drainage.

in both pics, but especially the second one, one can see the "indent" for lack of a better word, from one of the four "corners" of the pot.

fuck it, here is a picture of an empty pot, my descriptions are terrible:



The plants are not elevated at this time, so they do sometimes sit in a small amount of solution before I pull it out with a turkey baster.

 

[*mistress*]

 

[delta9nxs]

Carl, I meant that I had just read the links for the first time immediately before posting my reply. Thanks, there is some good stuff in there.

My plant is sweet tooth #4, I think it's what is called the “blueberry” pheno. A hint of berry and a little grapefruit. Super smooth and great aroma. No harshness. Knockdown painkiller. It took me about 18 mos to eliminate the rest of the seed pack. Copious notes and repeated cloning. Running this cut without mothers since 2003.

the jack's is performing well at all stages. Super stable in solution.

This company has been making water soluble fertilizers for 60 years. They have always been suppliers to the greenhouse industries.

I don't believe in additives and 'boosters. I feel that if you feed a plant properly it's entire life you will get max yield without them.


OO, I am totally lost on container sizes in your situation. I have never grown in a space that tight before. You said 13” to top of medium. Those 3 gal containers in the usplastics link will give a total container height of 13” but if your medium was 1” down you would have a total of 12”.

all cocos are not alike. Some have particles that are too fine. This will impede drainage and limit air porosity. I'm not familiar personally with anything but atami b'cuzz. It is a nice blend of particle sizes and water runs right through it. 30% air porosity. I would at least screen the coco over regular aluminum screen. Test it to make sure water flows easily through it. There should be no back up. Rinse it really good and then soak it for a while in full strength nutrient solution before putting a plant in it.

I really like the dirtfinger quote.


Work2much, the jack's does not need any more sulphate or magnesium. Off the top of my head I think the sulphate is around 8% and the mag is over 6%. you will have to add calcium nitrate.

I think there is some confusion over what is peters and what is jacks. Jack Peters was the founder of the original company. Remember the old peters 20-20-20? at some point he sold that company to Scott's and they for a while continued to market under the Peters name. The jr peters co. was formed by his descendants. They market a retail line called Jack's classic. It is not the same as their professional line, Jack's Professional. JRPeters Lab is a separate research, testing, and marketing branch that markets the “specialty” chemicals. See their website for the hydro 5-12-26.

http://www.jrpeterslab.com/


carl, you are doing with the baster what a wick usually does. Either way a smart move eliminating the pwt. I like that pot, who makes it?

Mistress, thanks again!

 

[Work2much]

Carl, I meant that I had just read the links for the first time immediately before posting my reply. Thanks, there is some good stuff in there.

My plant is sweet tooth #4, I think it's what is called the “blueberry” pheno. A hint of berry and a little grapefruit. Super smooth and great aroma. No harshness. Knockdown painkiller. It took me about 18 mos to eliminate the rest of the seed pack. Copious notes and repeated cloning. Running this cut without mothers since 2003.

the jack's is performing well at all stages. Super stable in solution.

This company has been making water soluble fertilizers for 60 years. They have always been suppliers to the greenhouse industries.

I don't believe in additives and 'boosters. I feel that if you feed a plant properly it's entire life you will get max yield without them.


OO, I am totally lost on container sizes in your situation. I have never grown in a space that tight before. You said 13” to top of medium. Those 3 gal containers in the usplastics link will give a total container height of 13” but if your medium was 1” down you would have a total of 12”.

all cocos are not alike. Some have particles that are too fine. This will impede drainage and limit air porosity. I'm not familiar personally with anything but atami b'cuzz. It is a nice blend of particle sizes and water runs right through it. 30% air porosity. I would at least screen the coco over regular aluminum screen. Test it to make sure water flows easily through it. There should be no back up. Rinse it really good and then soak it for a while in full strength nutrient solution before putting a plant in it.

I really like the dirtfinger quote.


Work2much, the jack's does not need any more sulphate or magnesium. Off the top of my head I think the sulphate is around 8% and the mag is over 6%. you will have to add calcium nitrate.

I think there is some confusion over what is peters and what is jacks. Jack Peters was the founder of the original company. Remember the old peters 20-20-20? at some point he sold that company to Scott's and they for a while continued to market under the Peters name. The jr peters co. was formed by his descendants. They market a retail line called Jack's classic. It is not the same as there professional line, Jack's Professional. JRPeters Lab is a separate research, testing, and marketing branch that markets the “specialty” chemicals. See there website for the hydro 5-12-26.

http://www.jrpeterslab.com/


carl, you are doing with the baster what a wick usually does. Either way a smart move eliminating the pwt. I like that pot, who makes it?

Mistress, thanks again!

Hi D9, thanks for the clarification. I was talking about Jacks Classic-

http://www.jacksclassic.com/blossom_booster.html

My mistake, I got them mixed up. It seems you guys are talking about the hydroponic one-

http://www.jacksprofessional.com/products.pdf

I'm a change nutes every time for fun guy. I should stop and just dial something in, but I have too much fun trying different stuff.

Hey Carl my first and second run in coco a few years back were with the CNS17 bloom your checking out. That was before the coco versions came out. It was a good trouble free nute. You do have to dose high, so it ends up being more expensive then people realize.

 

[Carl Carlson]

I think the mesh bottom, heavy duty plastic containers are distributed by Hydrofarm.

SKU: BCPTMESH10

 

[oldone]

Those 3 gal containers in the usplastics link will give a total container height of 13” but if your medium was 1” down you would have a total of 12”.

I think the 3 gal containers are a bit too large. I dont have to support one of your trees.

all cocos are not alike. Some have particles that are too fine. This will impede drainage and limit air porosity. I'm not familiar personally with anything but atami b'cuzz. It is a nice blend of particle sizes and water runs right through it. 30% air porosity. I would at least screen the coco over regular aluminum screen. Test it to make sure water flows easily through it. There should be no back up. Rinse it really good and then soak it for a while in full strength nutrient solution before putting a plant in it.

My coco came in a compressed brick. I'll try to break it up and screen it before getting it wet.

Thanks D9,
OO

 

[oldone]

PWT

PWT

I started to prep my coco today for the seedling/veg mPPK. Coco is all new to me. I am only growing 2 femmed seeds so a 16" x 10" rectangular bed will be enough. Seedlings and veg plants will be in coco filled net pots "planted" in the bed.

I prepared a piece of the compressed block in a bucket with about 2 gallons of (hard)well water. It was way too much water on purpose because I wanted to mix the coco completely by hand. I then dumped it into the veg mPPK. It has 8 x 1/2" holes. I let it drain for 30 minutes and had a look. The container is semi clear and there it was, a perched water table. The coco was only 4" deep but the PWT started about 1" down right to the bottom. I could easily tell that it was saturated and no more water was draining away. I left it for another hour and the PWT appeared unchanged. As soon as I tilted the container, water started poring out of it.

Next step was to try the wicks. They are 6" x 1" strips of microfiber wash cloth material. I dumped the mPPK, inserted 8 wicks, packed in the wet coco and dumped enough water in to saturate the coco. 30 minutes later the PWT was completely gone. Very cool...

Next step is to rinse with RO water and check the runoff.

Is this the kind of stuff you want to see in your thread D9? I intend to start a new one when I have growing plants but kinda wanted your comments.

Thanks,
OO

 

[delta9nxs]

good morning, OO!

anything is ok here, but, yes, observation and reporting, with people individually verifying or disproving theories and offering unique perspectives, is the way to go.

while it is usually not very scientifically done, all of this adds up and we make progress.

nice to have corroboration. thank you!

 

[*mistress*]

Next step was to try the wicks. They are 6" x 1" strips of microfiber wash cloth material. I dumped the mPPK, inserted 8 wicks, packed in the wet coco and dumped enough water in to saturate the coco. 30 minutes later the PWT was completely gone. Very cool...

the micro-fiber towels may have static electricity charge in them, that may affect nutrient solution. as nutrient solution is full of electrical charges/conductivity (ec).
maybe, tfictiously try many wicks... cheapo nylon rope seem work best. the microfibre material may hold too much water, instead of being conduit for water, like nylon/polyester...
if try nylon rope, maybe not marine type, which may have lead coating. regular nylon braided rope. maybe wash/soak, rinse & wring 1st... maybe micro-fibre work, but maybe try & went back to cheapo nyl0n 5/8".

 

[Carl Carlson]

I can get the Jacks hydro for $40 / 25 pounds and the Yaraliva Calcinit for $22 / 50 pounds... The latter is going to last literally forever... wow

It's a huge supply house and they sell 30 different soil products from each of Scotts, Fafard and Sun Gro, but unfortunately they still don't sell coco products on their own.

 

[delta9nxs]

Carl, i'm using the same brand calcinit. Goes instantly into solution. I bought a 50 lb bag over a year ago. I'm just now getting to the bottom of the original filling of the 2 quart container I use daily. I'll never use it all.

Those prices are insane. I guess I got screwed, I had to pay 28 bucks for my calcinit. I have spent thousands over the years on “grow store” nutes. Never again.

When I first started playing with the jack's hydro I was taking readings several times a day. Then once a day. Then every two, three and so on. Once a week and now I find I have neglected to check anything for 13 days.

Everything is incredibly stable. I have relaxed and learned to trust the product. All the plants look great. 16 plants in ppks ranging from 8” to almost 5 feet. Ppm readings were all between 871 and 922. ph readings were all between 5.5 and 6.1. This is without ph adjusters in ro water.

I have been playing around with the pulse system in flower. At first I thought I would need to deliver more solution in flower than veg, but that's not the case. Which means that I am really just watering the medium with the pulse system, not so much the plant. I have been dialing it down and i'm finding 30-40 oz's seems to be about right. I'm feeding 40oz's in veg in 4 oz increments 2 hours apart, not applying during the 4 hour dark cycle.

In flower I have a 12 hour dark phase, of course, so I was playing around with different rates and timing during the photoperiod. I am now trying 2 applications of 16 oz's each. One at lights on and one at eight hours into the period.

In both sides, veg and bloom, the sub-irrigation system is still carrying the load.

later

 

[Carl Carlson]

Did you ever muss around with feeding the calcinit separately or go straight to mixing?

 

[Carl Carlson]

I bought a 50 lb bag over a year ago. I'm just now getting to the bottom of the original filling of the 2 quart container I use daily. I'll never use it all.

Those prices are insane. I guess I got screwed

too funny

 

[delta9nxs]

Did you ever muss around with feeding the calcinit separately or go straight to mixing?

no, i didn't, but jrpeters says that's a valid technique. if you mix it as instructed it won't precipitate.