passive plant killer

[delta9nxs]

Carl, they are part of the design. At least until I can harvest one and have a look at the bottom center of the root ball. I have just harvested three all coco plants without the air pruning holes and the roots of those three were white and healthy but exhibited the spiraling pattern as the roots contacted the sidewall. The interior of the root balls all were healthy but showed less development.

The air pruning is supposed to limit the spiraling and stimulate the growth of secondary air type roots in the center of the ball. Studies have revealed that the air pruning does not actually create more root mass, but gets better distribution throughout the container. Probably processing o2 and taking up water and nutrients more efficiently. The plant I accidentally posted a photo of in the pwt sequence is the first one with the drilled sidewall. It appears to be very healthy with lush foliage and huge fan leaves. Time will tell.

If by water level tube you mean a horizontal tube installed in the same position, sure, that would work fine. I can see a hose attached to it to direct overflow into a catch container.

Later on

editing to answer the second question. the volume in the tub at the 4" level should be around 4.25 gals.

 

[Carl Carlson]

D9, check this one out:

http://www.lacebarkinc.com/EmagPapers/RootImproveAtGerminationE.pdf

I'll of course be waiting patiently to hear your results and I'm sure you've read through the long smart pot thread here on icmag.com, but it sounds to me as if the most benefits (with coco) will be with plants kept long term - such as a mother plants.

Dongle69 said her yields did not increase with her 1 gallon 100% coco SoG / ebb and flow tables.

krunchbubble compared 3g plastic pots with 100% coco to smart pots and found no increase in yield or quality:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=143321

 

[*mistress*]

far easier to make trees w/ aerated container, than w/ containers w/ solid walls................

 

[Carl Carlson]

far easier to make trees w/ aerated container, than w/ containers w/ solid walls...

Coco is obviously a dynamic medium with people growing massive plants in relatively small containers compared to what they previously accomplished with soil or peat-lite mixes.

The picture of the rootball that I posted a couple of days ago was a from a plant in a 2 gallon container - filled only with Botanicare coco. The plant was vegged as an afterthought in a one gallon container, using several CFL bulbs and when later bloomed (frankly, just for the heck of it - no special care, no training - it could be classified as slightly abused) with a 400w HPS and handwatered daily, it produced 7 ounces of buds.

...Which all adds up to why I think that D9, like Dongle69 and Krunchbubble before him will not find an increase in quality or yield simply by aerating the pots.

however, long-term plantys (trees 3x3-5x5) seem healthier w/ aerated containers,

yes, as mentioned above I'm thinking mother plants would benefit greatly. the veteran poster deadheadfred, had a lot to say about that in the long "smart pot" thread.

 

[*mistress*]

However, Coco is obviously an extremely dynamic medium with people growing massive plants in relatively small containers compared to what they previously accomplished with soil or peat-lite mixes.

m0n0-cr0p, pre-veg & veg tyme... any mix, any system. 1k/1-4 planty. not many @ ic grow masive plantys. those that do, they seem gro different systems...it gardener that make tree, not medium, maybe...
pR0-mix & sunSh!ne mix, or simple 40/60 peat/perlite dynmanic prior wide-spread coco...
same tech for trees: veg same container (5-10gal), lot light (1k/1-4), full strength fert...

The picture of the rootball that I posted a couple of days ago was a from a plant in a 2 gallon container

nice! enjoy!

...Which all adds up to why I think that D9... will not find an increase in quality or yield simply by aerating the pots.

the goal is healthier roots systems & healthier plants, seems... not every gardener make y!&|D as the target...
healthier root make planty have low-no stress. this make better fruit, if not more.

if aeration dont work for member Carl Carlson, avoid it!

 

[oldone]

oldone, i'm having trouble picturing what you mean with the siphon. I wonder why you would opt for a siphon from the control to the res when you could use these fail safe fittings letting gravity help you control level.

I mean that simply mount a hose so it's end is about 1" from the bottom of the PPK rez. Then run it out the top of the PPK over to the control bucket. It would be similarly run down into and mounted in the control. You could use a pump in the control to help establish the siphon. Remember that my PPKs and control bucket will never be more than a foot or so apart. I realize that mounting the hose securely and make it easy to remove/install will take some thought. Edit: A 1/2" or 3/4" dia hose should be enough.

Sorry my friend, I still dont know what you mean by "tire valves". The best pic of yours I could find showing them is from post 329 pic 4.

I've done a lot of epoxy and fiberglass boat work and to my knowledge, epoxy doesn't bond well to most plastics. A better choice would Amazing Goop, plumbers edition. Lowes, hd, wally's.

Thanks I'll use that stuff...
OO

 

[Carl Carlson]

it not really the medium that make big planty. it the cut, the skil of the gardener, the light & the pre-veg & veg tyme...

patently false. The plant is not a math equation. Plant size doesn't move on a linear scale with light and pre-veg time. medium physical properties make a big difference.... Go have a chat with all of the people that using the same cuts and lights, switched from soil to coco and watched their plants grow faster and bigger in smaller containers.

Use the right medium and your veg time on the way to that tree should be decreased.

the goal is healthier roots systems & healthier plants, seems... not every gardener make y!&|D as the target...

Duh! Don't healthier plants and roots always produce higher quality yield?

I have noticed that you love to point this out (about yield as a goal) on the forum, as if it's a point of righteousness or something.

Note that I posted (and you quoted), quality and yield. The two should go hand in hand without saying. No one that I know wants to grow thin, leafy buds and or grows MJ just so they can admire the roots.

You might not care about maximizing quality yields, but with electricity and everything else costing what it does and the illegality of it, almost everyone that grows it, especially indoors, has those goals in mind (quality and yield) and rightfully so.

 

[delta9nxs]

carl, i don't know if the holes are going to help or not. it''s an inexpensive experiment.

oo, i was installing a tire valve in a container this morning. i'ts fast, easy and doesn't leak. the yellow tubing is 1/4" id surgical tubing, sold for some reason, by lowes. i use about a 4" piece on each valve as an adapter for 1/4" od drip line, which fits inside the surgical tubing. it's a little bit loose fitting so i put 3 wraps of waterproof adhesive bandage tape on the drip line, spit on it, and push it on. it will not leak and takes considerable force to pop them apart. the other end of the surgical tubing gets pushed up onto the rubber part of the valve. no leaks. the drip tubing is 11 cents a foot at lowes. another cool thing about the surgical tubing is that you can pinch it shut with a clothespin. on-off valve. just put it low in the sidewall of your containers and snap it together. the drill bit i use for making the valve hole is 15/32. but a 7/16 will work too. just drill the hole, put the valve through , thread the tire valve tool on and pull. it snaps in.

gravity will keep the water level equal in all containers.

i got a bag of 50 valves at the tire store for 12 dollars. the tool is at wally's for under 2.

the last photo is a distribution manifold i built this morning for the pulse system

 

[delta9nxs]

i forgot to load the pics

 

[cactusjack]

Delta - I had the same questions about tire valves. Glad oldone asked and thanks for the detailed answer describing the surgical tubing adapter. I often insert a section of soft silicon aquarium tube in drip lines to accommodate a pinch valve. I like your surgical tube approach better since it appears I can reduce the number of little drip tube connectors I use.

Your newest arrangement of bucket and tub looks great. Question - have you loaded it up with wet coco yet? I'm wondering if the lower tub lid is stiff enough to support the heavy bucket with a full size plant without getting tippy. If it is too floppy, I suppose you could add a half bucket beneath the lid for support as in the original ppk.

 

[delta9nxs]

.......

 

[delta9nxs]

!!!!

 

[oldone]

Hi D9,

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Do your tire valves have metal threads inside? I thought any metal in hyro was a no-no. Edit: And are they a press fit in the bucket?

Thanks,
OO

 

[delta9nxs]

Just some shots of what it looks like loaded. I looked at a lot of containers and the rubbermaid roughneck 10 gal is the only one that I thought would hold up to the weight. The lid is also shaped well to catch any overflow and will return it to the res. The baster looking thing you see is a battery acid tool from autozone. 3 bucks and much better than a baster. Holds more water and fills faster than a kitchen baster. The bucket with the hole is the plant holder in case you have to get into the res.

 

[delta9nxs]

oo, yes they have threads to hold the valve stem which would be removed in this app, but it is hard brass, which i have used in fish holding systems with no ill effect.

you drill a hole, stick the valve through the hole from the inside, thread the tool onto the valve, and pull. it will seat with a snap.

 

[delta9nxs]

the rubbermaids in that size are getting scarce in the normal retail outlets. they can be found here:

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23904&catid=770

 

[oldone]

Hi D9,

Once again thanks for sharing all of your knowledge. I got my first brick of coco today and will play with it over the weekend.

Your mini PPK looks to be the same height as the regular ones. I need something shorter in fact as short as possible. I need to make the overall height of the PPK 15" or less. 12" would be perfect.

So 3" rez plus 1" airgap leaves 8" for media. A 9" pot 8" deep would be 2.2 gallons which should be plenty maybe overkill. These PPKs only have to support a plant that is much smaller than yours.

My first run with these will be bottom fed only (FNB) for simplicity.

Any pointers for popping seeds in coco?

Thanks,
OO

 

[delta9nxs]

oo, i think i've found an answer for you. in the usplastics link above they show 3 gal tubs built the same way. they are 7" high, but if you take 2 of them the top one will nest in the lid of the first one about an inch below the rim. that would give you a total height of 13". if you use the 6" sink tailpiece you would have to cut an inch off. you could still run your res level at 4".

 

[Carl Carlson]

So it is scalable downwards, provided support for the top bucket?

I'm thinking of a 2 gallon bucket version, using a 16 quart Sterlite for the res and have an idea for a support piece that would fit in between.

I'm working on a test run that is kind of fun. It will include 3 plants in PPKs, 1 in a waterfarm that I've had for a while and just never bothered to setup and 3 others fed with my own pulse-style, automated top-feed DTW in 2 gallon pots of coco.

 

[Carl Carlson]

Any pointers for popping seeds in coco?

for what it's worth, I still prefer the paper towel method. always 99-100% success with it in 24-48 hours. After the tail pops, put it in coco and just barely cover it. If it's warm enough, they'll be up and out in another 24 hours.

edit:

Jiffy 7s (peat) and 7-Cs (coco) are great too - they have a netting to keep the substrate in place so the roots air prune. I guess the substrate in a pot is a mini-smart pot.