C
Carl Carlson
D9 what exactly is that ring used to hang your bulb in veg setup? i need to copy that or something similar
passive plant killer
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
Hey, cactus! Thank you! What kind of glue did you use?
Oldone, thank you, but actually i'm very disorganized. I use the water from the control bucket, which is a mix of new input from the volume tank and back flow from the reservoirs, to feed the pump bucket. I'll put up another set of readings to give you a better idea.
Hey, turbohead! I was very curious as to what the bottom center looked like because that area is where a lot of folks in the coco forum have said they had an anaerobic mess.
Carl, that is a 2 1/2” ring that is sold in the hardware area at tractor supply and lowes. It holds the 12 ga extension cord in place but is still easy to adjust.
Oldone, thank you, but actually i'm very disorganized. I use the water from the control bucket, which is a mix of new input from the volume tank and back flow from the reservoirs, to feed the pump bucket. I'll put up another set of readings to give you a better idea.
Hey, turbohead! I was very curious as to what the bottom center looked like because that area is where a lot of folks in the coco forum have said they had an anaerobic mess.
Carl, that is a 2 1/2” ring that is sold in the hardware area at tractor supply and lowes. It holds the 12 ga extension cord in place but is still easy to adjust.
cactusjack
Member
Plain old PVC pipe cement and purple primer. I was concerned that it wouldn't bond well through the fiberglass screen, but it worked fine on two test items plus the final units. Can't bust them off. They solvent-welded good and tight. - cactus
C
Carl Carlson
D9 is the man.
I inquired about Jack's hydro at the local greenhouse supplier today and it's $38.00 for a 25 pound bag.
haha and I last bought a gallon of FNB for $87.50!!!
Not only that, the whole reason for the ride to this place was to get a part for a drip feed manifold. Price at the hydro store - $2.95. List price at the big place - $1.33. But they gave me the part and a huge roll of 1/4" black tubing for free because it would too much of a pain in the ass to write a small order up. So I definitely owe them some bidness in the future.
I inquired about Jack's hydro at the local greenhouse supplier today and it's $38.00 for a 25 pound bag.
haha and I last bought a gallon of FNB for $87.50!!!
Not only that, the whole reason for the ride to this place was to get a part for a drip feed manifold. Price at the hydro store - $2.95. List price at the big place - $1.33. But they gave me the part and a huge roll of 1/4" black tubing for free because it would too much of a pain in the ass to write a small order up. So I definitely owe them some bidness in the future.
Just thought i'd put up a basic flow diagram showing directions of flow and how it causes the solution to be blended continuously. The volume tank is elevated to gravity feed the control bucket. All the other containers are at floor level and together hold slightly less than 25 gals (7 reservoirs). The volume tank holds 45. This will operate the veg system at least 3 weeks which is way longer than I need. I have installed more tire valves on it to feed the flower system as well. If both sides can run a week off a single filling that would meet my needs.
Here are my last 2 sets of readings;
4-22
volume 876 @ 5.8
control 865 @ 5.9
pump 859 @ 6.2
#
1- 861 @ 5.8
2- 831 @ 6.0
3- 795 @ 6.1
4- 811 @ 6.2
5- 848 @ 6.0
6- 827 @ 6.2
7- 833 @ 6.2
4-26
volume 881 @ 5.8
control 866 @ 5.9
pump 870 @ 6.0
#
1- 872 @ 6.0 no plant
2- 838 @ 6.1
3- 801 @ 6.1
4- 826 @ 6.1
5- 856 @ 6.0
6- 838 @ 6.1
7- 823 @ 6.2
I have thought some about long term solution maintenance and have started (2 weeks) dumping each reservoir in veg when I remove a plant from the system. So, 3 gals a week is being tossed along with the trash that accumulates in every hydro res. Bug parts, coco fiber, etc. Since 3-15 this remains the only water removed from the system. I have mixed new solution and topped off the volume tank several times.
Dumping a res is very easy when the plant module is not in place. Just pick up the res and pour it into a bucket. Maybe wipe it out with a big sponge. It refills itself.
As the numbers indicate the working solution is extremely stable. The fact that the numbers always read lower than the input indicates no salt build up.
Something i've been meaning to mention is that the length of the drip tubing is not important on the sub-irrigated part. It can be cut to length for each res. Gravity sucks real good. But if you want equal delivery volume with the pulse system all the lines need to be the same length, regardless of distance to the container. That's why you see all the coiled up extra tubing in the photos.
later
Here are my last 2 sets of readings;
4-22
volume 876 @ 5.8
control 865 @ 5.9
pump 859 @ 6.2
#
1- 861 @ 5.8
2- 831 @ 6.0
3- 795 @ 6.1
4- 811 @ 6.2
5- 848 @ 6.0
6- 827 @ 6.2
7- 833 @ 6.2
4-26
volume 881 @ 5.8
control 866 @ 5.9
pump 870 @ 6.0
#
1- 872 @ 6.0 no plant
2- 838 @ 6.1
3- 801 @ 6.1
4- 826 @ 6.1
5- 856 @ 6.0
6- 838 @ 6.1
7- 823 @ 6.2
I have thought some about long term solution maintenance and have started (2 weeks) dumping each reservoir in veg when I remove a plant from the system. So, 3 gals a week is being tossed along with the trash that accumulates in every hydro res. Bug parts, coco fiber, etc. Since 3-15 this remains the only water removed from the system. I have mixed new solution and topped off the volume tank several times.
Dumping a res is very easy when the plant module is not in place. Just pick up the res and pour it into a bucket. Maybe wipe it out with a big sponge. It refills itself.
As the numbers indicate the working solution is extremely stable. The fact that the numbers always read lower than the input indicates no salt build up.
Something i've been meaning to mention is that the length of the drip tubing is not important on the sub-irrigated part. It can be cut to length for each res. Gravity sucks real good. But if you want equal delivery volume with the pulse system all the lines need to be the same length, regardless of distance to the container. That's why you see all the coiled up extra tubing in the photos.
later
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cactusjack
Member
Delta - Quick question... do you think its important to have "dry time" between your top watering cycles? I'm thinking probably not, so maybe the pulse pump could ultimately be replaced with a simple I.V. drip, gravity fed directly from the solution volume tank.
Hey, cactus!
There are very few devices that allow you to precision dial duration of event and interval. The cyclestat 4p allows you to do that, but it is a little pricey @ around 170. My pump is way too large for the application but I had them leftover from a bio-bucket set up.
I do think that the pulsed system is superior to a straight drip as it produces a better wetted profile, but probably only slightly.
The ultimate goal is to maintain the medium at a consistent hydraulic conductivity all the way through the container without saturating the medium. Moist. Continuously with no real drying. This is with coco. With turface you can allow more drying.
Your problem is that you can't run the sub-irrigated feed and the top feed both from the volume tank. You will rapidly overflow your reservoir and will not benefit from the solution stability you get with the blending effect. I would give precedence to the sub-irrigation system as it will still do most of the work and is almost fail-safe. I know you have to leave for protracted intervals. The pump bucket in my system is filled from the control bucket but if you are running only one res the pump could be in the res.
A solution for you would be to run a small pump in your reservoir on a timer to fill a second raised container that will gravity flow to your drip. A digital timer might allow you to fill the drip feed tank once or twice per day. This small tank could also be plumbed with an overflow fitting to return excess to the res. Preventing overflow.
With the sub-irrigation you will not need much of a drip rate on top. I'm only putting 6 oz's on the tops every 3 hours. That's 48 oz's a day per plant in a 5 gallon container. Really just feeding the medium, keeping it at a nearly constant ph and tds.
You can grow just fine and almost trouble free using the sub-irrigation only. The top feed will accelerate growth to a level above that of the sub system alone.
Here are some abstracts of research papers that make some interesting statements:
The Pulsed Irrigation Principle for Controlled Soil Wetting
ZUR, B.
The pulsed water application principle was developed in order to obtain the desired low application rates from any water emitter. A time averaged hourly water application rate was used to define the pulsed water application regime. In a series of controlled laboratory experiments water was applied to soil columns at various combinations of nominal application rates, Ri, and pulse duration, tp. The volumetric soil water content distribution and the rate of advance of the wetting front in the soil columns behaved as if the time averaged water application rate was being applied continuously. The water pulses applied at the soil surface are quickly damped, resulting in an essentially constant water flow through the wetted soil profile. It is concluded that the pulsed water application principle can be used effectively to control the wetting of the soil profile during the infiltration process.
Intermittent Water Application through Surface and Subsurface Drip Irrigation
Published by the American Society of Agricultural and Biological Engineers, St. Joseph, Michigan www.asabe.org
Authors:***Panagiotis Vyrlas, Maria Sakellariou-Makrantonaki
Intermittent water application allows reducing mean irrigation rate to a level which coincides with soil's hydraulic conductivity and minimizes percolation below the main root zone. Field experiment was conducted to confirm the efficiency of this approach, in a clay loam soil. The treatments consisted of two irrigation systems (surface and subsurface drip), and two methods of water application (continuous and intermittent).
Drip piping with 0.8-m emitter spacing was placed on the soil surface in the middle of alternative plant rows. Laterals with the same characteristics were buried at 0.45 m in the subsurface plots.
The moisture distribution in the soil one day after irrigation, measured by time domain reflectometry instrumentation, indicated that intermittent application in both surface and subsurface plots produced wider wetted patterns.
Intermittent or pulsed drip irrigation application has proven its potential to improve sugar beet yield. The results demonstrate that plots irrigated by intermittent application exceeded the continuous irrigated ones in terms of root yield and sugar content.
L. Incrocci, , F. Malorgio, A. Della Bartola and A. Pardossi
Dipartimento di Biologia delle Piante Agrarie, Viale delle Piagge, 23 I-56124 Pisa, Italy
Abstract
In closed-loop soil-less culture, one of the most relevant problems may be the accumulation in the recirculating nutrient solution of ions contained in irrigation water that are not or scarcely absorbed by the plants (e.g. Na, Cl) In order to verify the possibility to reduce the rate of recirculating water salinization by means of sub-irrigation, an experiment was carried out in the spring of 2002 and 2004, with tomato plants (cv. Jama) grown in glasshouse and watered by conventional drip irrigation (D) or by sub-irrigation (trough bench system; S). The plants were cultivated in pots filled with a peat-perlite substrate for approximately 3 months and fed with complete nutrient solution, which was prepared with fresh water containing 10*mol*m−3 NaCl; the nutrient solution in the collecting tank was replaced when the value of electrical conductivity (EC) exceeded 6.0*dS*m−1. Water and nutrient crop use, salt accumulation in the substrate, and fruit yield were monitored. In S culture, the composition and EC of the recirculating nutrient solution changed slightly, while in D treatment there was a fast water salinisation that made it necessary to flushed out the nutrient solution in six different occasions, with consequent loss of water and fertilisers. In S culture, the upward water movement in the substrate, coupled with selective mineral uptake by the roots, caused salinity build-up in the upper region of the substrate, which was associated with Na+ accumulation. These findings suggest that sub-irrigation can be a tool to reduce the water consumption and nutrient runoff in closed-loop substrate culture of tomato conducted with saline water.
There are very few devices that allow you to precision dial duration of event and interval. The cyclestat 4p allows you to do that, but it is a little pricey @ around 170. My pump is way too large for the application but I had them leftover from a bio-bucket set up.
I do think that the pulsed system is superior to a straight drip as it produces a better wetted profile, but probably only slightly.
The ultimate goal is to maintain the medium at a consistent hydraulic conductivity all the way through the container without saturating the medium. Moist. Continuously with no real drying. This is with coco. With turface you can allow more drying.
Your problem is that you can't run the sub-irrigated feed and the top feed both from the volume tank. You will rapidly overflow your reservoir and will not benefit from the solution stability you get with the blending effect. I would give precedence to the sub-irrigation system as it will still do most of the work and is almost fail-safe. I know you have to leave for protracted intervals. The pump bucket in my system is filled from the control bucket but if you are running only one res the pump could be in the res.
A solution for you would be to run a small pump in your reservoir on a timer to fill a second raised container that will gravity flow to your drip. A digital timer might allow you to fill the drip feed tank once or twice per day. This small tank could also be plumbed with an overflow fitting to return excess to the res. Preventing overflow.
With the sub-irrigation you will not need much of a drip rate on top. I'm only putting 6 oz's on the tops every 3 hours. That's 48 oz's a day per plant in a 5 gallon container. Really just feeding the medium, keeping it at a nearly constant ph and tds.
You can grow just fine and almost trouble free using the sub-irrigation only. The top feed will accelerate growth to a level above that of the sub system alone.
Here are some abstracts of research papers that make some interesting statements:
The Pulsed Irrigation Principle for Controlled Soil Wetting
ZUR, B.
The pulsed water application principle was developed in order to obtain the desired low application rates from any water emitter. A time averaged hourly water application rate was used to define the pulsed water application regime. In a series of controlled laboratory experiments water was applied to soil columns at various combinations of nominal application rates, Ri, and pulse duration, tp. The volumetric soil water content distribution and the rate of advance of the wetting front in the soil columns behaved as if the time averaged water application rate was being applied continuously. The water pulses applied at the soil surface are quickly damped, resulting in an essentially constant water flow through the wetted soil profile. It is concluded that the pulsed water application principle can be used effectively to control the wetting of the soil profile during the infiltration process.
Intermittent Water Application through Surface and Subsurface Drip Irrigation
Published by the American Society of Agricultural and Biological Engineers, St. Joseph, Michigan www.asabe.org
Authors:***Panagiotis Vyrlas, Maria Sakellariou-Makrantonaki
Intermittent water application allows reducing mean irrigation rate to a level which coincides with soil's hydraulic conductivity and minimizes percolation below the main root zone. Field experiment was conducted to confirm the efficiency of this approach, in a clay loam soil. The treatments consisted of two irrigation systems (surface and subsurface drip), and two methods of water application (continuous and intermittent).
Drip piping with 0.8-m emitter spacing was placed on the soil surface in the middle of alternative plant rows. Laterals with the same characteristics were buried at 0.45 m in the subsurface plots.
The moisture distribution in the soil one day after irrigation, measured by time domain reflectometry instrumentation, indicated that intermittent application in both surface and subsurface plots produced wider wetted patterns.
Intermittent or pulsed drip irrigation application has proven its potential to improve sugar beet yield. The results demonstrate that plots irrigated by intermittent application exceeded the continuous irrigated ones in terms of root yield and sugar content.
L. Incrocci, , F. Malorgio, A. Della Bartola and A. Pardossi
Dipartimento di Biologia delle Piante Agrarie, Viale delle Piagge, 23 I-56124 Pisa, Italy
Abstract
In closed-loop soil-less culture, one of the most relevant problems may be the accumulation in the recirculating nutrient solution of ions contained in irrigation water that are not or scarcely absorbed by the plants (e.g. Na, Cl) In order to verify the possibility to reduce the rate of recirculating water salinization by means of sub-irrigation, an experiment was carried out in the spring of 2002 and 2004, with tomato plants (cv. Jama) grown in glasshouse and watered by conventional drip irrigation (D) or by sub-irrigation (trough bench system; S). The plants were cultivated in pots filled with a peat-perlite substrate for approximately 3 months and fed with complete nutrient solution, which was prepared with fresh water containing 10*mol*m−3 NaCl; the nutrient solution in the collecting tank was replaced when the value of electrical conductivity (EC) exceeded 6.0*dS*m−1. Water and nutrient crop use, salt accumulation in the substrate, and fruit yield were monitored. In S culture, the composition and EC of the recirculating nutrient solution changed slightly, while in D treatment there was a fast water salinisation that made it necessary to flushed out the nutrient solution in six different occasions, with consequent loss of water and fertilisers. In S culture, the upward water movement in the substrate, coupled with selective mineral uptake by the roots, caused salinity build-up in the upper region of the substrate, which was associated with Na+ accumulation. These findings suggest that sub-irrigation can be a tool to reduce the water consumption and nutrient runoff in closed-loop substrate culture of tomato conducted with saline water.
tech delta9nxs!cactusjack
Member
Delta - Thanks for pointing out the problem with running both top and sub-irrigation feeds from the volume tank. I'm also a bit worried about straight drip not producing the desired wetting distribution compared with pulse. I've never really run drip or 100% coco so I don't have a good feel for it. I have run top feed only from a DIY over-sized pulse set-up, but I always ran with significant runoff to make sure I didn't feed too little. Basically a mechanized Hempy. Thanks to your ppk thread, I've switched to sub-irrigation with media wick as a solution to the annoyance of runoff.
I'm actually quite satisfied with sub-irrigation only, but your reports of superior growth with the addition of top-feed have my eyes twinkling. Damn you! A properly sized pulse system is probably the best approach, but the mechanical engineer in me can't stop looking for alternate solutions.
I do like your idea of adding a small "day tank" with overflow to feed a dripper. Thanks! To match your schedule, it could be filled once every 3 hours. The drip quantity of 6 oz could be targeted by adjusting the overflow level. This approach appeals to both my Rube Goldberg and Scottish sensibilities. I think I'll fiddle with it a bit to see if I can get it to act a bit more pulse-like to ensure better wetting distribution.
I'm actually quite satisfied with sub-irrigation only, but your reports of superior growth with the addition of top-feed have my eyes twinkling. Damn you! A properly sized pulse system is probably the best approach, but the mechanical engineer in me can't stop looking for alternate solutions.
I do like your idea of adding a small "day tank" with overflow to feed a dripper. Thanks! To match your schedule, it could be filled once every 3 hours. The drip quantity of 6 oz could be targeted by adjusting the overflow level. This approach appeals to both my Rube Goldberg and Scottish sensibilities. I think I'll fiddle with it a bit to see if I can get it to act a bit more pulse-like to ensure better wetting distribution.
Darth Fader
Member
Great explanation - I like how you break it down, completely makes sense.
Wow, you've really made some changes down at the lab. I gotta go back & catch-up!
cactusjack
Member
Delta - I've got a little $15 digital timer from HomeDepot that will do up to 20 cycles/day. Shortest interval is 1 minute. Smallest aquarium pump I have does about 30-40 GPH at 12-15" head. Can't find a smaller one. I'll have to add a bypass to cut flow down into the 6 oz/cycle range. I've been thinking of a WaterFarm type ring for distribution made out of 1/4" irrigation tubing. This got me thinking that maybe a WaterFarm type air lift would be better since its flow is relatively low and better suited for this self contained unit. Jury is still out which way I'll go. I've thought a bit more about a continuous system, and I think your pulsed "tidal" system has definite advantages.
I'm currently running 80/20 turface/coco so I don't think I'll bother with the top feed kit in this unit. I'll be starting 100% coco with the top feed kit later this month when a couple of other plants come out of flower. Cartoon of my layout attached. I've only drawn a single media well even though I have two, one on either side of the central float valve.
Next week I take a 400-mile round trip drive to pick up several sacks of Atami coco. One of the joys of living on the edge of the world is the long drive to get to a "big" city for serious shopping. Also on my road trip shopping list are a handful of Air-Pot units (available within 2 miles of the coco!). I don't know if I'll use them right away, but discussions of root pruning have got me thinking that they may be my next step. As far as I can tell, Air-Pots look like the cats pajamas.
I'm currently running 80/20 turface/coco so I don't think I'll bother with the top feed kit in this unit. I'll be starting 100% coco with the top feed kit later this month when a couple of other plants come out of flower. Cartoon of my layout attached. I've only drawn a single media well even though I have two, one on either side of the central float valve.
Next week I take a 400-mile round trip drive to pick up several sacks of Atami coco. One of the joys of living on the edge of the world is the long drive to get to a "big" city for serious shopping. Also on my road trip shopping list are a handful of Air-Pot units (available within 2 miles of the coco!). I don't know if I'll use them right away, but discussions of root pruning have got me thinking that they may be my next step. As far as I can tell, Air-Pots look like the cats pajamas.
Attachments
Cactus, by “shortest interval” I take it you mean the duration of the watering event. That sounds usable. So does the pump. But instead of a bypass you could just restrict the pump. That's what I have done with that distribution manifold I built. That pump is a mag-drive 950 and so it is suffering a severe back pressure penalty, trying to push 950 gph through 7 .188 tubes. The I.D. of the drip tubing is the same size as a BB. The pump outlet is threaded for 3/4” pipe. The good thing is the aquarium “pumps” aren't really pumps at all but blowers and don't suffer much damage from being treated like this. My duration of event is 15 seconds 8 times a day. But that is with my set up. You will need to play with the timing to get the delivery amount you think you need. With your pump you might need a minute to deliver 6 oz's through a .188 tube. Especially if you restrict it, reducing delivery rate to meet the timers minimum window. Your drawing looks workable. The only thing I would change up front is I would not use the drip ring. Run open lines with maybe a “T” like I use on the end with a couple of 2” pieces of drip tubing stuck in the “T”. One of the benefits of the pulse set up is the “plunger” like effect you get on the medium each time it fires, putting a sudden burst of water on top that wants to fall in a mass because of waters natural cohesion, pushing and pulling air as it moves.
You might find that, as the plant grows, the 5 gal volume tank won't get you a week. I don't know how long you have to be away at a time but some of my plants consume close to a gal per day or maybe even more.
Also, my 6 oz's every 3 hrs is still experimental so please keep that in mind. I intend to play around with it a little bit with these drilled out “air pruning” buckets. They seem to run a little drier on top but growth is still spectacular. The air pruned plants seem to be growing a little faster than the previous treatment. Some of the largest fan leaves i've ever seen are on the 1st plant treated this way. It's obviously getting even more o2.
I'm just got an idea pertaining to your design that might be a beneficial improvement. I'll come back later and explain it.
For now i'm putting up three pics of the first plant in one of these drilled out air pruning containers. There are multiple roots coming out of every hole now. The first photo is the same plant on 4-22 to give an idea of growth rate and health. This plant shouldn't even be alive right now because when I transplanted it I accidentally snapped the stem almost all the way through. In an attempt to save it I splinted it and wrapped it with wire to hold it up and waited for it to croak. As you can see it pulled through. 13 days of growth since 4-22.
You might find that, as the plant grows, the 5 gal volume tank won't get you a week. I don't know how long you have to be away at a time but some of my plants consume close to a gal per day or maybe even more.
Also, my 6 oz's every 3 hrs is still experimental so please keep that in mind. I intend to play around with it a little bit with these drilled out “air pruning” buckets. They seem to run a little drier on top but growth is still spectacular. The air pruned plants seem to be growing a little faster than the previous treatment. Some of the largest fan leaves i've ever seen are on the 1st plant treated this way. It's obviously getting even more o2.
I'm just got an idea pertaining to your design that might be a beneficial improvement. I'll come back later and explain it.
For now i'm putting up three pics of the first plant in one of these drilled out air pruning containers. There are multiple roots coming out of every hole now. The first photo is the same plant on 4-22 to give an idea of growth rate and health. This plant shouldn't even be alive right now because when I transplanted it I accidentally snapped the stem almost all the way through. In an attempt to save it I splinted it and wrapped it with wire to hold it up and waited for it to croak. As you can see it pulled through. 13 days of growth since 4-22.
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Air pots do look good, I wonder if just drilling holes in a bucket acheives the same effect without the cost?
As far as that design goes, maybe use an air pump hooked up to the waterfarm drip ring to aerate the solution as well as providing top feed. just an idea, u may not want to use an air pump, but it would replace the water pump and aerate the solution whihc I believe will boost growth some.
delta, still at it huh?! theyre lookin good, im surprised at the amount of time your putting into this, not many threads this informative
ok, got back! you know how in your drawing you show the 3/8 access hole. well, if you got a cork for it to make a good seal and your buckets fit tight, which they usually do, when the pump fires and it starts drawing water down, and it can't get air to replace the lost volume anywhere else, it will pull it in through the sump tube, and therefore, through the medium. like an inhalation. causing downward movement. then you have the pulsed water coming down through the medium as well. more movement. then, as the water level comes back up to equalize, an exhalation. yet more o2.
i did some quick calculations of your res volume. i calculate the total volume of the 4" space between the buckets as being around 1.43 gals. i feel at this point, after all the playing around i've done, that your water level in the res should be at least 1.5" below the grow medium. i like 2" better, but 1.5" is probably ok. at the 2.5" level you will have approx. .89 of a gal or 113.92 oz's. let's say that you will be pumping 6 oz's per event or .05 of your total volume. this leaves 107.92 in the res each time. so it will only draw down the level approx. 3/8 of an inch. but that is enough to cause a positive pull on the medium.
i did some quick calculations of your res volume. i calculate the total volume of the 4" space between the buckets as being around 1.43 gals. i feel at this point, after all the playing around i've done, that your water level in the res should be at least 1.5" below the grow medium. i like 2" better, but 1.5" is probably ok. at the 2.5" level you will have approx. .89 of a gal or 113.92 oz's. let's say that you will be pumping 6 oz's per event or .05 of your total volume. this leaves 107.92 in the res each time. so it will only draw down the level approx. 3/8 of an inch. but that is enough to cause a positive pull on the medium.
hey, turbohead! wassup, my brother?
i've been doing a lot of reading on air pruning, looking at the various methods and reasons. there are at least 30 examples of containers designed to achieve this shown in the commercial and scientific literature, and the patents and applications, and i've been thinking that the reason that there are so many extremely diverse methods of doing it is that with each variation comes the possibility of getting a protected patent. it's all about $$$$$$. mine cost 2.34 at lowes for the bucket and 10 min. with a 5/16th bit.
later
i've been doing a lot of reading on air pruning, looking at the various methods and reasons. there are at least 30 examples of containers designed to achieve this shown in the commercial and scientific literature, and the patents and applications, and i've been thinking that the reason that there are so many extremely diverse methods of doing it is that with each variation comes the possibility of getting a protected patent. it's all about $$$$$$. mine cost 2.34 at lowes for the bucket and 10 min. with a 5/16th bit.
later
About the time I put into this. First of all, this has been a tremendous learning experience for me. I didn't know about a lot of this stuff a year ago. I was running 10 gal all perlite hempy's which worked ok and grew some big plants but I installed fittings on them to be able to monitor tds and ph in the medium after the watering event, which is what really counts as that is what the roots will be sitting in till next time. I took readings for 8 mos. And concluded something was going on in the root zone that was not, at least for me at the time, readily explained. By the 5th or 6th week of flower tds readings went up and ph went down. As I was feeding a moderate strength lucas formula with flora nova bloom @ 900 ppm and getting 10-15% run off it was hard to understand why this was happening. Then I decided that the drying process was what was concentrating salts and leaving them behind. The perched water table, which is ubiquitous with most container designs, also creates it's own set of root zone problems. The pwt can only be eliminated after each watering by evaporation and transpiration or an artificial drain scheme of some kind, such as a wick. As the air type roots don't want to grow into standing water, they stop if you have a constantly maintained level of water in the bottom. The problem with most containers is that they don't have a constantly maintained level, they have a level that is at first determined by the fineness of the medium, which dictates the height of the pwt, then slowly eliminated by evapo-transpiration. Well, as the level drops the air type roots want to invade the recently vacated space, which they do until the next attempted murder occurs. Which is the next time you water. The “internal reservoir bucket” exacerbates this entire process by adding an additional layer of standing water upon which the pwt sits, creating an even greater opportunity to drown the air roots that will invade that space too. It is drowning the air type roots, not the water roots, that creates the conditions for pythium to occur. Then, of course, the water roots go south too. You all know that rotten egg smell. That's evidence. Research has shown that the air roots can grow into the “contested zone” in as little as 12 hours. Certainly before you water again.
I haven't even mentioned the amount of water and nutrients poured through containers in drain to waste schemes. It is an extremely irresponsible, environmentally unsustainable thing to do and i didn't want to do it anymore. The “cannabis” nutrient industry loves “drain to waste” and “change your nutes every week”. I have now dumped 9 gals out of a couple of hundred used in the veg system since 3-15. This is 5-5.
So, when I began realizing these things I started thinking of ways to correct them. I began doing a lot of reading and where we are at today is the result so far.
This device has evolved itself actually, right here in front of everybody, based on observation, trial and error, and a desire to do something positive for the cannabis community that has been so kind to me during ten years of illness. I would like it to be possible for brand new growers, especially those with medical issues, who may be physically limited, who may know nothing about plants at all, who know nothing about hydro or nutrients or ph and who may not have a lot of money, to have a simple, extremely reliable, proven method of growing their own medicine. All over the cannabis online
community we are now besieged with an onslaught of brand new growers. All looking for a track to run on. Sadly, time after time we see them fail miserably through no fault of their own. They usually have picked an advanced technique requiring lots of knowledge and monitoring and is labor intensive. Their decision is usually based on the success of someone using that particular technique. They are almost certainly doomed to failure the first few tries as they climb the learning curve.
I have tried to use common materials available at local retail giants located everywhere as much as possible. I have found an inexpensive alternative nutrient program that also helps keep people out of the “grow” stores as much as possible and saves a lot of money and wear and tear on your ass from the f*****g you get every time you walk in.. I am working on another version that will be easier and faster and cheaper to build. It should not cost a lot of money to grow your own medicine.
Everywhere on the forums we see folks using a list of ferts, additives, enhancers, etc. One fellow proudly displays a list on every post with over twenty expensive grow store products. All designed especially for pot. Yeah, right. Professionals in commercial agriculture must laugh their asses off at this absurdity. This is agriculture, folks! Not alchemy or magic. No Mojo involved!. Getting your growing environment right does more for yield than the most expensive nutrient in the world. Tissue analysis has shown that 94% of a plants mass is derived from the elements found in air and water, the rest is from what you provide in the form of nutrients. I will list all of the products I am currently using to grow these plants you see here in Appendix A, below.
So, about the time I have been putting into this project. It's been a lot of fun, I've enjoyed every minute of it. This thread has given me a place to express and organize my thoughts. Questions and comments from others have stimulated my imagination and taken me looking in new directions. I thank ICMAG for this and thank everyone who has participated for their input and for being so kind. Do you all realize that, so far, we have managed to pull off a rare occurrence in the cannabis forums these days. A troll free, idiot free, non confrontational, non competitive, peaceful conversation about growing our favorite plant, conducted by mature adults. Thank you all! Bravo!
d9
I haven't even mentioned the amount of water and nutrients poured through containers in drain to waste schemes. It is an extremely irresponsible, environmentally unsustainable thing to do and i didn't want to do it anymore. The “cannabis” nutrient industry loves “drain to waste” and “change your nutes every week”. I have now dumped 9 gals out of a couple of hundred used in the veg system since 3-15. This is 5-5.
So, when I began realizing these things I started thinking of ways to correct them. I began doing a lot of reading and where we are at today is the result so far.
This device has evolved itself actually, right here in front of everybody, based on observation, trial and error, and a desire to do something positive for the cannabis community that has been so kind to me during ten years of illness. I would like it to be possible for brand new growers, especially those with medical issues, who may be physically limited, who may know nothing about plants at all, who know nothing about hydro or nutrients or ph and who may not have a lot of money, to have a simple, extremely reliable, proven method of growing their own medicine. All over the cannabis online
community we are now besieged with an onslaught of brand new growers. All looking for a track to run on. Sadly, time after time we see them fail miserably through no fault of their own. They usually have picked an advanced technique requiring lots of knowledge and monitoring and is labor intensive. Their decision is usually based on the success of someone using that particular technique. They are almost certainly doomed to failure the first few tries as they climb the learning curve.
I have tried to use common materials available at local retail giants located everywhere as much as possible. I have found an inexpensive alternative nutrient program that also helps keep people out of the “grow” stores as much as possible and saves a lot of money and wear and tear on your ass from the f*****g you get every time you walk in.. I am working on another version that will be easier and faster and cheaper to build. It should not cost a lot of money to grow your own medicine.
Everywhere on the forums we see folks using a list of ferts, additives, enhancers, etc. One fellow proudly displays a list on every post with over twenty expensive grow store products. All designed especially for pot. Yeah, right. Professionals in commercial agriculture must laugh their asses off at this absurdity. This is agriculture, folks! Not alchemy or magic. No Mojo involved!. Getting your growing environment right does more for yield than the most expensive nutrient in the world. Tissue analysis has shown that 94% of a plants mass is derived from the elements found in air and water, the rest is from what you provide in the form of nutrients. I will list all of the products I am currently using to grow these plants you see here in Appendix A, below.
So, about the time I have been putting into this project. It's been a lot of fun, I've enjoyed every minute of it. This thread has given me a place to express and organize my thoughts. Questions and comments from others have stimulated my imagination and taken me looking in new directions. I thank ICMAG for this and thank everyone who has participated for their input and for being so kind. Do you all realize that, so far, we have managed to pull off a rare occurrence in the cannabis forums these days. A troll free, idiot free, non confrontational, non competitive, peaceful conversation about growing our favorite plant, conducted by mature adults. Thank you all! Bravo!
d9
C
Carl Carlson
yep
and in conclusion: THE PPK REVOLUTION!!!!!!
cactusjack
Member
What I learned on Winter Vacation...
What I learned on Winter Vacation...
Coincidentally,last night I was making a list of things I've learned from this thread. Among them:
1) What first drew me in was the use of wicks to feed large healthy MJ plants. Hearsay and dogma kept me from trying it in the past. I now know they work very well and the elements of the PPK suit my needs precisely. The PPK appears to be a robust fault tolerant approach that can grow very healthy plants with little effort.
2) I've been shown some real science behind the benefits of switching from 24/0 to 20/4 on/off cycle during veg.
3) I've gained an understanding of the"hydraulic redistribution" principals that explains why my top air roots are healthy in spite of living in seemingly dry media.
4) I was introduced to Jacks products; a practical cost effective agricultural nute line that I will be using for both MJ and my much large outdoor vegetables gardens.
5) I've been dragged kicking and screaming into the world of coco because I think I finally have been presented with a practical understanding of the critical variables that make it work and not work (apologies to others who have tried... I can be pretty stubborn sometimes).
6) ... and last but not least, I was introduced to the Hawaiian Garbage Can - a concept that I have to play with someday soon!
There are many other little tidbits that slip my mind right now, but I have to give mega cudos to Delta for starting and sticking with this thread. Not only for doing the work, but also for sharing. Along the way he providing a comfortable forum that attracted other master gardeners who made significant contributions as well.
I for one, and I suspect a number of others, will be better gardeners thanks to this thread. I've also had a heck of a lot of fun riding along.
Thanks D9!
What I learned on Winter Vacation...
Coincidentally,last night I was making a list of things I've learned from this thread. Among them:
1) What first drew me in was the use of wicks to feed large healthy MJ plants. Hearsay and dogma kept me from trying it in the past. I now know they work very well and the elements of the PPK suit my needs precisely. The PPK appears to be a robust fault tolerant approach that can grow very healthy plants with little effort.
2) I've been shown some real science behind the benefits of switching from 24/0 to 20/4 on/off cycle during veg.
3) I've gained an understanding of the"hydraulic redistribution" principals that explains why my top air roots are healthy in spite of living in seemingly dry media.
4) I was introduced to Jacks products; a practical cost effective agricultural nute line that I will be using for both MJ and my much large outdoor vegetables gardens.
5) I've been dragged kicking and screaming into the world of coco because I think I finally have been presented with a practical understanding of the critical variables that make it work and not work (apologies to others who have tried... I can be pretty stubborn sometimes).
6) ... and last but not least, I was introduced to the Hawaiian Garbage Can - a concept that I have to play with someday soon!
There are many other little tidbits that slip my mind right now, but I have to give mega cudos to Delta for starting and sticking with this thread. Not only for doing the work, but also for sharing. Along the way he providing a comfortable forum that attracted other master gardeners who made significant contributions as well.
I for one, and I suspect a number of others, will be better gardeners thanks to this thread. I've also had a heck of a lot of fun riding along.
Thanks D9!
