passive plant killer

[cactusjack]

Hey Delta! - Now that I've got my growing back on track, I'm taking some time to reassess my methods. For the last eight years I grew in a rental house where stealth and minimum height were critical. Last fall I bought and moved into a relatively rural house, but continued with my old methods. I realized during my bout with cold temperatures that it is time to take advantage of the new digs and stop fighting the constraints of small spaces. In the future, even though my plant number will remain limited, I'll be growing without height restrictions. No more scrog!

Thanks to your well documented success, I'm going with my version of your ppk, although I still entertain "Hawaiian Garbage Can" fantasies! I'm up in the air about medium however. I love Turface but I'm excited about coco and your experiments look promising. Beyond the single Turface/coco (80/20 blend) I'm running right now, I'm leaning toward 100% of one or the other.

Question - Have you tried to clean any of the Turface in your blends for reuse? I like the reusability of Turface, but if I end up dumping medium into my yard after each run, I'd rather do it with coco. My outdoor soil is essentially 100% sand and it can use all the organic material it can get.

 

[oldone]

Hi Delta,

I have just finished reading the whole thread and am fascinated with your growing style and results. I love the KISS potential of your PPKs. Thanks for sharing such detailed info.

Unlike catusjack, I am very height limited in that my flower chamber has roughly 30" usable height. What do you think the minimum depth of growing medium should be?

Of course I go for much smaller SCROG style plants than you do. I currently run a small E&F container but your method seems to be even simpler.

Thanks again,
OO

 

[watson540]

hey D9,

Im also getting into the dry ferts world. Do you have any experience with "growmore fertilizer" (39 bucks for 25 lbs) or with "chemgro ferts" (62 bucks for 25lb, but can be bought iin 5lbs)

 

[delta9nxs]

Currently listening to robin trowers “caravan to midnight”.

Hi, mistress! Thought you'd like that “square plant”. 42” high, 44” wide.

You're right, not all of the roots are pruning. Some are protruding 1/8” or so and just staying there, but most are pruning.

It's funny you should mention roots growing out into space in the right environment. I been wondering recently what would happen if I put a cover on the outer tub that bridged the gap between it and the bucket above the drilled out area.

Now “crossroads” by clapton.

 

[delta9nxs]

“little bit of sympathy” robin trower

hi, cactus! My flower room has a 10' ceiling. I've got 2 250 cfm duct fans scavenging heat right off the top of the room. Really helps control temps.

I just depotted the first all coco plant and its no contest. The best root development so far. After 7 years my turface is getting tilled into the garden. Love turface, great medium! But I can't ignore what i'm seeing. Pics in a little while.

I built a wooden trough for cleaning turface. You can separate turface from almost anything with it. Let it get bone dry and run all of the medium through a ¼ “ screen to break it up. Put a water hose at one end and slowly pour your material into it. The turface sinks and everything else floats off. I've done this with coco, perlite and hydroton.

The coco cannot be discerned from dirt once dumped into your yard.

“war we wage” matt schofield

 

[delta9nxs]

“piece of mind” sean costello

hey, oldone! Thank you and welcome!

Man, 30” is tough! Is that total vertical space or is that above the medium?

 

[delta9nxs]

“ardell's theme” stew cutler

Hi, watson! Welcome!

I've never heard of growmore, but chemgro has been around a long time. You sometimes see it mentioned in the greenhouse research stuff. Also total-gro.

I've been showing the plants i've been vegging with jack's. The rootball pics coming below are from the coco medium plant I just whacked. It spent the last six weeks flowering on jack's at the same mix and dose as the vegging plants.

Nice tight, hard nugs.

“pretty people” blues saraceno

later

 

[delta9nxs]

"black autumn" roy buchanan

"do the romp" chris duarte

this first pic is bottom up. like all the other root balls regardless of material, the spiraling occurs most in the bottom 1/3 of the container.

#2 is the bottom. healthy, whites roots all the way down. no evidence of a perched water table. turbo answer.

#3 right side up. this plant did not see the effects of the pulsed watering system in veg but still has good top root growth.

#4 sawn in half, this is the one that truly demonstrates these principles at work.

notice there is no "soggy mass" in the center bottom. instead it is filled with fine, white roots. turbohead answer.

with sub-irrigation comes the ability to control the water table and therefore offers more precision in dialing in the proper moisture content. turbo answer.

hey, turbo, did i skate around that shit or what?

"i don't believe you" magic slim

 

[delta9nxs]

"i don't live here anymore" joe bonamassa

here's the produce from this one. still wet but i would say 9-10 zips.

i'm just now linking the plants in the flowering area. same float valve system for controlling water level.

"the sky is crying" stevie ray vaughn

 

[oldone]

Man, 30” is tough! Is that total vertical space or is that above the medium?

30" total to the bottom of the lights (4 x 55w PLLs). These lights are quite cool so I let plants get real close...

Thanks,
OO

 

[oldone]

 

[delta9nxs]

oo, thanks for the pic. i see no reason you can't use basically the same size containers in there with a media wick. if you made the device modular without the piece of shelving in between the res and the grow container it would be easier to slide in and out to work on.

a float valve would get you precision level control and you've already got a pump if you want to set up a pulse waterer. using a float valve you would have to have a volume tank outside the box, if that's feasible.

 

[delta9nxs]

the #3 pic above showing the top of the medium is of a plant that has never enjoyed the effect of the pulsed water.

this is a plant in flower one week that was pulse watered about 5 weeks during veg.

i have scraped away 1/8" of the surface cover of coco. the roots are like this every where in the top of the medium

you cannot stick your finger through this layer without tremendous pressure. i mean way more than you would think considering that it is composed only of coco fiber and roots.

 

[oldone]

Thanks for the advice Delta,

Another question if you dont mind. I understand from reading this thread that you use the overflow pipe for reading PH and TDS.

Is there any reason to believe that the readings you get from the small volume inside the pipe differ from those you might get elsewhere in the rez?

I guess I'm wondering how any water and nutes added into a stagnant rez get mixed together.

Thanks,
OO

 

[delta9nxs]

good morning, oldone!

tds and ph will naturally tend to balance in each reservoir. dilute runs to concentrate, adjusting ph on the way. i have never had to adjust ph outside of the mixing tank. the foam pads have an access hole also and i can get the same readings there.

as you may have noticed, the individual res readings vary slightly from plant to plant. every plant is in a different week of growth and so they are probably taking up nutrients at slightly different rates. the readings just wander up and down over a limited range. i consider 770-900 ppm and 5.2-6.5 ph to be acceptable. typical range for ph now is 5.8-6.3.

the overflow also gives me a quick visual check of res levels. to make sure they are all at the same height and therefore no line blockages, which to date i've never had.

so far a single drip line is supplying all water to 7 plants in veg. i think it will also supply nine in flower.

my guess is that the combination of pulse and sub irrigation with the associated temporary back flow tends to homogenize the solution.

there are probably long term regulating factors at work as well.

when i remove the oldest plant in each system it is taking it's individual accumulations out of the loop.

everything constantly corrects tds and ph, instead of allowing them to get out of range.

well, i hope some of this helps you somehow.

later, d9

 

[oldone]

well, i hope some of this helps you somehow.later, d9

It most certainly does...

I think you started top watering because you felt that the top layer was not getting wet enough. Do you think it was dry because the depth of the coco (ie wont wick that high) or did the plant use it up before the top became wet?

My concern is that using a shallower depth (6" or so) may be too shallow and the top would always be wet.

good morning to you,
OO

 

[delta9nxs]

in a five gallon bucket, with the medium about 12" deep, the coco still felt moist and the first plant, which was never top watered, still produced around 7 1/8. but today it remains the smallest plant yet.

i believe top watering is the obvious cause of the extra root growth at the top. in the early parts of this thread it was still being done as I felt it was needed by a diffuser wand and a pump, yet made a noticeable increase in growth. Root growth and shoot growth are directly related. When you stall one you stall the other.

when i went to the pulsed system, which, in veg, is delivering only six oz's every three hours, top root growth more or less exploded. keeping coco continuously wet, but not saturated, is the goal. it is a hydroponic medium. Each root hair must be surrounded by at least a small amount of water to function.
Water is the middleman but without it nothing happens.

this practice increases nutrient availability and rate of uptake and controls salt build up.

it is when a medium is suffering a water stress event that evaporation causes salt concentration. it is the same in a glass of water in which a teaspoon of sodium salt (Na) has been dissolved. only water leaves the glass during a drying event. when the evaporation process is over the salt is left behind.

what happens when you water again with the same strength solution after a drying event is that you are putting the now concentrated salt in the medium back into solution. this inevitably gives you a stronger solution in the medium. if you over dry repeatedly, even slightly, you are continuously increasing medium salt content.

Because of the inverse relationship between tds and ph this also causes fluctuations in ph. Both medium and solution ph are affected. This lack of ph stability negatively affects growth. If you stall a plant for any reason it permanently affects potential.

I don't believe depth of medium has much bearing on this phenomena but it probably has some effect. Studies i've read indicate that salts tend to accumulate in the top portion of a sub-irrigated medium as opposed to a purely top watered medium, in which the tendency is to accumulate in the bottom of the container. I think the combination of techniques keeps the salts in solution and moving through the medium, blending them back into the main body of solution.

a typical container is not an open ended water column like soil in which everything not used by the plant just goes right through. i think my container more closely models the soil environment. (another answer to turbo's question) yuk, yuk!

Later on

 

[cactusjack]

Delta - While rereading the thread I found that I hadn't answered a small question you had regarding my media well assembly. Yes, the screen is also glued on. I prime both the inside of the ring and the outside of the pipe where the ring fits. Then apply glue to the same two regions. I stretch the screen over the end of the pipe and slide a rubber band over it to hold it in place. Finally, I slip the ring over the end of the pipe, capturing the screen, and twist it about a quarter turn to smear the adhesive. When it has cured I remove the rubber band and trim the screen with a box cutter.

 

[oldone]

wow dude you sure know how to organize your knowledge..

Do you top water with plain RO or with nute solution?

Rep on the way,
OO

 

[turbolaser4528]

yeahh braa. givin a whole new meaning to root porn with photo #4