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passive plant killer
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
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disciple
actually, i don't usually kill anything, even insects, if i don't have to. i stop and help turtles across the road. i don't hunt anymore but would to eat if necessary. i have wrecked my car at 70 mph to avoid hitting a dog. my wife, daughter, and i rescue cats, have them treated, fixed, and find them homes. we are always working on a couple.
i killed that rattlesnake because it represented a clear health hazard to me, my family, and my pets. it was 8 ft from my deck on the path to the shop. when i said i almost stepped on it, that was no bullshit. it was about where my next foot would have gone had i not seen it at the last moment. oh yeah, it was rattling but i couldn't hear it because i did not have my hearing aid in.
if you are a normal, healthy young person, a pit viper bite probably won't kill you. but, as a 62 year old liver transplant patient still dealing with ongoing hep c, a severely compromised immune system from taking the anti-rejection medicines and very low blood parameters, i probably would not have made it. by the way, the timber rattler possesses the most toxic venom of all north american pit vipers with a large neurotoxic effect as well as hemotoxic. it would not have been fun.
so, you see, there can be circumstances where it might be advisable to kill something.
village green
Member
That was my gratuitous Snoop Dog reference for the day.
village green
Member
ditto
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village green
Member
aren't george and jorge schizophrenically related? maybe a forked pin.
village green
Member
I was burned at the stake for suggesting that side wall holes are a waste of effort. I'm guessing you saw Ashes' work and now know whats up.
You gotta use something to keep the floordry in, but are you sure you want to be slowing down the flow? While hand watering you certainly would, but I guess what I'm getting at is the floordry will drain plenty slow as is.
I did hand watered (no more than once every 2 days) PPKs in a mix of turface and perlite in very low humidity conditions and I still saw signs of over-watering when the tail piece was submerged. I like perlite because although it does hold on to water, it doesn't for very long at all. I believe floordry is finer than turface so maybe even mixing it (not just top dressing) with pea gravel would help create some oxygen pockets. Gravel would make your buckets heavy tho.
Love the move to cut down a 5 gallon bucket. Shorter and wider will give you better moisture distribution, but again it just might be too wet for smaller plants. New research on plants is using MRI scanners on container plants and the conclusion is the roots sense the size of the container and consequently limit growth. I don't see why anyone is concerned about how much root mass fills a container when all we care about is the amount of root mass and thus fruits. Now the verdict isn't out on this one and some people got their shit dialed in for smaller buckets, but ask any experienced outdoor or tree grower's outside of this thread and they'll tell ya that bigger is better from what they've learned first hand. Sounds like folks here think the smaller containers give them more control, but perhaps this is a classical case of confusing cause and effect. Smaller containers with crowded root mass will need better gas/air exchanges... If smaller containers were needed for better gas/air exchange, it would follow that the pulse wasn't sufficient for 5 gallons; perhaps from them damn side holes...
Anyway, I look forward to hearing your experiences and hope they go well.
G
Guest 142956
I did a comparison test using my iteration of the PPK but non pulsed rig using tomatoes outdoors. I don't use sidewall holes but vertical slits made with a metal cutting blade in a drill, staggered so as to maintain some strength in the bucket. The no slits seemed to have a two piece rootball with a 3 inch space between the two. The slitted buckets were solidly rooted and the roots were much healthier looking so aerating the rootzone is a definite plus.
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disciple
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disciple
village green
Member
Love the move to cut down a 5 gallon bucket. Shorter and wider will give you better moisture distribution, but again it just might be too wet for smaller plants. New research on plants is using MRI scanners on container plants and the conclusion is the roots sense the size of the container and consequently limit growth. I don't see why anyone is concerned about how much root mass fills a container when all we care about is the amount of root mass and thus fruits. Now the verdict isn't out on this one and some people got their shit dialed in for smaller buckets, but ask any experienced outdoor or tree grower's outside of this thread and they'll tell ya that bigger is better from what they've learned first hand. Sounds like folks here think the smaller containers give them more control, but perhaps this is a classical case of confusing cause and effect. Smaller containers with crowded root mass will need better gas/air exchanges... If smaller containers were needed for better gas/air exchange, it would follow that the pulse wasn't sufficient for 5 gallons; perhaps from them damn side holes...
Greetings....I've been trying to source the 3.5 gallon buckets so have considered the ever-present 5 gallons. Which one worked best for you? Also, how much did you have to adjust your pulse? Did your buckets with side holes outperform the solid buckets when you adjusted the pulse?
Greetings....I've been trying to source the 3.5 gallon buckets so have considered the ever-present 5 gallons. Which one worked best for you? Also, how much did you have to adjust your pulse? Did your buckets with side holes outperform the solid buckets when you adjusted the pulse?
TBH I may go back and put rice hulls in everything.
For the sake of experimentation and data collection I may put side holes in half the buckets.
Also a smart pot ppk LOVE MACHINE continues to pop into my head, a tailpiece in a smart pot seems pretty simple.
I also have been thinking about multiple pulse rings buried in the media.
For now I am happy and pleased with the current evolution of the ppk LOVE MACHINE.
For the sake of experimentation and data collection I may put side holes in half the buckets.
Also a smart pot ppk LOVE MACHINE continues to pop into my head, a tailpiece in a smart pot seems pretty simple.
I also have been thinking about multiple pulse rings buried in the media.
For now I am happy and pleased with the current evolution of the ppk LOVE MACHINE.
two imaginary 5 gal containers
one is the standard 5 gal bucket. although tapered if you average the taper and treat it like a cylinder it is 10.25" in diameter and 14" tall.
the other is a hypothetical container that could be made by cutting down a 17" diameter tub from wally's. let's cut it down to 5". so 17" x 5".
17/2 = 8.5 radius, 8.5 x 8.5 x 3.1416 = surface area 226.98 sq in
x 5" (depth) divided by the constant 231 (number of cubic inches in a gal) = 4.913 gals.
the 5 gal bucket surface area is 10.25/2= 5.125 radius x 5.125 x pi 3.1416 = 82.516 sq inches x 2 (top and bottom) = 165.032.
sidewall assuming the shape corrected to a cylinder is 10.25 (diameter) x 3.1416 = 32.20 circumference x 14 (height) = 450.81
450.81 + 165.03 = 615.83 total peripheral area of the container.
the cut down 17" five gal container surface area is 8.5 x 8.5 x 3.1416 = 226.98 x 2 (top and bottom) = 453.96
sidewall = 17" x 3.1416 = 53.41 x 5 (height) = 267.05
453.96 + 267.05 = 721.01 total peripheral area.
615.83/721.01=.85 so there is 15% less peripheral area for the standard 5 gal bucket.
same volume but the 17" container will grow a bigger, better plant under the same circumstances because the roots sense total peripheral constraints rather than volume and control the aerial portions of the plant to match growth. we don't want to outgrow our resources. because if we do we die before our mission is complete.
also, on the sidewall hole issue the oxygen content rolls off sharply in most soilless media when more than about 5" from an air source. the holes simply assure that, in containers with a medium depth greater than about five inches, the o2 supply is good between pulses.
and, of course, they allow gas movement into and out of the container during a pulse event. a breath.
and, if you use a container with a medium depth of approx 5" you don't need any holes at all.
so holes or no holes is not a "waste of effort". it is simply a decision to be made based on your container. now, you "know what's up".
and, folks here don't "think smaller containers give them more control", they think they are using the right size containers for the projected veg and stretch periods. just good farming.
but perhaps this is a classical case of confusing cause and effect.
one is the standard 5 gal bucket. although tapered if you average the taper and treat it like a cylinder it is 10.25" in diameter and 14" tall.
the other is a hypothetical container that could be made by cutting down a 17" diameter tub from wally's. let's cut it down to 5". so 17" x 5".
17/2 = 8.5 radius, 8.5 x 8.5 x 3.1416 = surface area 226.98 sq in
x 5" (depth) divided by the constant 231 (number of cubic inches in a gal) = 4.913 gals.
the 5 gal bucket surface area is 10.25/2= 5.125 radius x 5.125 x pi 3.1416 = 82.516 sq inches x 2 (top and bottom) = 165.032.
sidewall assuming the shape corrected to a cylinder is 10.25 (diameter) x 3.1416 = 32.20 circumference x 14 (height) = 450.81
450.81 + 165.03 = 615.83 total peripheral area of the container.
the cut down 17" five gal container surface area is 8.5 x 8.5 x 3.1416 = 226.98 x 2 (top and bottom) = 453.96
sidewall = 17" x 3.1416 = 53.41 x 5 (height) = 267.05
453.96 + 267.05 = 721.01 total peripheral area.
615.83/721.01=.85 so there is 15% less peripheral area for the standard 5 gal bucket.
same volume but the 17" container will grow a bigger, better plant under the same circumstances because the roots sense total peripheral constraints rather than volume and control the aerial portions of the plant to match growth. we don't want to outgrow our resources. because if we do we die before our mission is complete.
also, on the sidewall hole issue the oxygen content rolls off sharply in most soilless media when more than about 5" from an air source. the holes simply assure that, in containers with a medium depth greater than about five inches, the o2 supply is good between pulses.
and, of course, they allow gas movement into and out of the container during a pulse event. a breath.
and, if you use a container with a medium depth of approx 5" you don't need any holes at all.
so holes or no holes is not a "waste of effort". it is simply a decision to be made based on your container. now, you "know what's up".
and, folks here don't "think smaller containers give them more control", they think they are using the right size containers for the projected veg and stretch periods. just good farming.
but perhaps this is a classical case of confusing cause and effect.
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I hear what you're saying, it would be foolish to try and change things up first run on a system where all that's already been done by much more qualified people! I'm gonna go with the 3.5s and work on getting that dialed, establish a baseline, and then maybe some time in the future I can experiment, and actually have a solid basis for comparison.
I hear ya, I'll use the white buckets I have as res buckets w/ black/white panda film to block em out. But I think I'll try and get the black buckets for the media, I can imagine trying to drill air holes through the panda and buckets quickly becoming a mess, not to mention cleaning.
Speaking of that, what sort of stores might stock 3.5 gal black plastic buckets? I didn't see em at HD or lowes, is there any industry they are commonly used in? Paint stores maybe? Where did y'all source em?
Sweet, thanks for the reassurance! I haven't ran hydro systems like this in the past, and reliability has always been my big stumbling block.
You know, if you have a weapon that malfunctions, even irregularly, you damn sure don't trust your life to it. And I feel the same way about growing systems and electrical wiring. A major failure may well leave you broke, homeless, or worse.
