passive plant killer

[gregor_mendel]

real ting:

Your question has been asked and answered many times in this thread. (No)
The 3.5 gallon buckets we use here are 11" tall, while the the 10 gallon Brute is 17 1/8" tall, so stacked Brutes would be 12 1/4" taller. I don't know how tall your room is, but supposing it is 96", you just ate up over 34" of that with an unnecessarily tall setup. The Brutes are also 2.5 times the cost.

Go with the 3.5s and get ready to grow 1.5 to 2 pound plants.

If you are really stuck on the extra media, go with 14 gallon Brute totes.
They will come in at the same height as 3.5 gallon buckets, and you can spend even more money.

 

[gregor_mendel]

Reading my post, I sound like an a-hole, but my jabs are in good cheer. Internet banter seems so terse.

 

[disciple]

 

[delta9nxs]

What's up guys? Long time lurker here. I'm thinking about setting up some ppks. The room is a square roughly 11 x 11, I'm thinking 4 plants in a diamond layout, 1 1000 watter in the middle, and 4 600s in a square. Later it might be expanded to 5 1ks, when the weather isn't so hot.

My question is, what do ya'll think about 10 gallon brutes in place of 5 gallon buckets? Are there any downsides to this plan? Is the standard 5 gallon setup enough for 850-1k watts per? Is there anything to be gained by the additional rooting space?

hey, welcome!

your room shape and size are almost ideal for the X light pattern and 4 plants. icmag member heath demonstrated on his thread the effectiveness of using a 1k in the center and flipping four lamps off 2 ballast in the corners. to really do this correctly with 5 ballast simultaneously you need a par meter. you will need to go to 12/12 at a point that will not allow your plants to outgrow the space. i have had plants with 5.5-6' canopies, which were too big for my space and will be too big for yours.

your question is valid on the root space. but unless you veg for a long time you will not fill the container. as disciple said the roots will reach the sidewalls with a lot of wasted space in between. you already have a need to control plants because of space. the ultimate size potential of the aerial portions of a containerized plant is dependent on overall container dimensions to a large extent as the roots sense periphery and limit growth to match. but this must be balanced with time of growth and space limitations or you will have a mess.

we have found that a 3.5 gal bucket will grow any size plant that a 5 gal bucket will. some huge plants have been grown in them.

good luck!

editing to say that gregor's statements on height are right as height is the least desirable of the the dimensions in containers. this is true for mathematical and biological considerations which have been ignored in conventional horticulture because of the need to deal with the perched water table.

 

[delta9nxs]

this thread is funny! we don't talk about trying to get weak, spindly, little plants to grow a few oz's each.

we talk about controlling big, unruly 1 lb plus beasts so they don't outgrow our spaces!

 

[real ting]

Reading my post, I sound like an a-hole, but my jabs are in good cheer. Internet banter seems so terse.

No worries man! The advice you posted is great. I have read quite a bit of this thread, as well as imaginaryfriend's thread that has guides and info. I did try searching before posting the question, but because icm does not allow searching for short words, like 10, or quoted combinations, like "10 gallons" I couldn't find what I was looking for.

And honestly, this thread probably has more words and theories than most textbooks, it can be hard to process!

hey, welcome!

your room shape and size are almost ideal for the X light pattern and 4 plants. icmag member heath demonstrated on his thread the effectiveness of using a 1k in the center and flipping four lamps off 2 ballast in the corners. to really do this correctly with 5 ballast simultaneously you need a par meter. you will need to go to 12/12 at a point that will not allow your plants to outgrow the space. i have had plants with 5.5-6' canopies, which were too big for my space and will be too big for yours.

your question is valid on the root space. but unless you veg for a long time you will not fill the container. as disciple said the roots will reach the sidewalls with a lot of wasted space in between. you already have a need to control plants because of space. the ultimate size potential of the aerial portions of a containerized plant is dependent on overall container dimensions to a large extent as the roots sense periphery and limit growth to match. but this must be balanced with time of growth and space limitations or you will have a mess.

we have found that a 3.5 gal bucket will grow any size plant that a 5 gal bucket will. some huge plants have been grown in them.

good luck!

editing to say that gregor's statements on height are right as height is the least desirable of the the dimensions in containers. this is true for mathematical and biological considerations which have been ignored in conventional horticulture because of the need to deal with the perched water table.

Thanks for the input d9!

After reading what you guys have to say I think I will try the stacked 3.5s for the first go round. I guess I had an aversion to smaller medium buckets since my first run with hempys produced smaller plants in 3.5s vs 5s, and every try since larger pots have been king. But I've never used a setup like this, mainly ran hand watered setups. Is this still the current best practice? https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4206430#post4206430

Do you run plain bagged coco, a mix, or something else? I know you started with turface, but it seems like most have switched to coco, is that true? In the past straight coco in smart pots has been my go to, I've tried pre mixed perlite types, like the roots soilless coco mix, as well as DIY coco and perlite blends. But the need to spray down the perlite and the space, effort and mess required to mix it wasn't ideal.

When reading through this thread it's tough to follow which ideas were winners and which were theorized, tested, taken back to the drawing board or scratched entirely. It's pretty awesome that everyone here keeps improving this system!

 

[real ting]

Another thing I am now wondering about after you mentioned heaths corner flipping, is whether I wouldn't be better off in the summer heat running 3 1k ballasts, 1 always on in the center, and the 2 corners flipping in an x shape either every few hours or once a day. This would be instead of running the 1k and 4x600s. Overall it should be less heat, I'd just be worried about the radiant heat burning up leaves and nugs, as well as fluctuating temperature zones. The room is setup active exhuast running 24/7, with bare bulbs and a floor fan directly under each bulb. Then the question would be whether that would out yield the 3400w. What do ya'll think?

I have used flip flops in the past to flop 2 600 watt ballasts between 2 1200 watt mini rooms. It wasn't as good of a plan as I had hoped, mainly because it was cooled through 1 fan actively exhausting both rooms, meaning the day/night temp difference left neither room with an ideal environment. But this setup wouldn't have that problem.

 

[disciple]

 

[disciple]

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Hello to all you Bastards.

 

[oldone]

Hello to all you Bastards.

Right back at you big guy...

 

[high life 45]

Made my latest batch of ppks.

Holes on the bottom of the buckets instead of the sides.

A landscape fabric donut in the bottom to slow flow of water and prevent pests along with keepin the floordry in.

Pure diatomite... No rice hulls....

5 gallon buckets were available locally..the top 1/3 was sawzalled off and then reattached with four drywall screws Aka my own DIY 3.5 gal bucket.

Top off with peagravel.......might just have to do that.

Been smokin this tasty purple herb That smells like aPple cinnamon pie.


Big love
Hl45

 

[bloyd]

Made my latest batch of ppks.


Pure diatomite... No rice hulls....


Hl45

Hello HL. Hope your first ppk run finished or is finishing well. I am sure you have taken this into consideration, but without the rice hulls in the mixture you won't get the same kind of flow of nutrients which will affect your oxygen levels and the medium will stay much wetter. Your pulse will have to be toned down.

Also with your holes on the bottom I would think this would constrict air flow and you wouldn't get the oxygen pulled into the holes as water pulses through the medium.

Just some friendly thoughts.

Good luck however you proceed.

 

[high life 45]

Good points.

I feel that I can easily drill some holes in the sides if need be.
Rice hulls on the other hand need to happen sooner than later.


I am hand watering ATM and the flow seems to be pretty good, a satisfying trickle that splashes into the lower bucket.


I may bury the pulse manifold under some of the diatomite to create a nice dry layer on the top of the bucket which would prevent bugs.

Brainstormin up ideas for a ppk bed/sog. If anything pops into your mind please stop by my thread.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Hello HL. Hope your first ppk run finished or is finishing well. I am sure you have taken this into consideration, but without the rice hulls in the mixture you won't get the same kind of flow of nutrients which will affect your oxygen levels and the medium will stay much wetter. Your pulse will have to be toned down.

Also with your holes on the bottom I would think this would constrict air flow and you wouldn't get the oxygen pulled into the holes as water pulses through the medium.

"but without the rice hulls in the mixture you won't get the same kind of flow of nutrients which will affect your oxygen levels and the medium will stay much wetter. Your pulse will have to be toned down."

This varies if you are doing saturation pulsing or top feeding pulsing. Saturation pulsing is less sensitive, but really ramps up with faster drainage. But too fast, and you can't puddle.

"Also with your holes on the bottom I would think this would constrict air flow and you wouldn't get the oxygen pulled into the holes as water pulses through the medium."

Again, with saturation pulsing, there is a maximum gas displacement. It works well with bottom holes. Side holes, with massive saturation pulses, can 'fountain' out past the side of the sub-bucket, making a general messy shit show.

Note well that side holes do change root ring characteristics, so you end up with a different root-density-profile in the root zone with and without them.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

I'm having a tallboy on my porch while the sun is high up in the sky.

...'Cause I got some shit done today, and I got time to take a nap before I got to get back to it...

So a celebration beer it was...

You Bastards.

 

[Snook]

Hello to all you Bastards.

That's "Mister" bastard.

 

[delta9nxs]

bastard posse!

hey, oo!

still finishing the build while i wait for plants to grow. the outside of the wall with the ac's, ballasts, and timers was facing the big overhead entrance door and i sure don't want anyone seeing that shit. so i called Fauxfacade.kom again and they came right over and built a "presentation wall" suitable for the public.

it's 8 ft high and 30 ft across with one entrance door to one side. i'm putting all my tools and benches against it.

i enclosed an area about 6.5' by 30. i can store all the "pro" gear and extra materials in there as well as build a small veg room. open at the top.

Travolta's character in "swordfish", "what the eyes see and the ears hear, the mind believes"

slow at icmag this time of year. wanna see another cool snake?

this is the eastern milk snake. a beautiful little boa constrictor. this one is about 4.5-5'

 

[village green]

You gonna kill that one too?....might want to play some appropriate music...."Murder Was The Case That They Gave Me"...that wasn't being slow jammed to the day you named the PPK was it?

 

[real ting]

i think you'll have less heat with the 6's and will be able to get them closer to the plants. you'll have more latitude to adjust and deal with overgrowth with 6's rather than 1k's.... and although a 1k puts out more light than a 6... the 6 puts out more light per watt and less heat per watt. If a guy has only 1 light... let it be a 1k.. but if it's a question of how to divide up your power budget and you can afford more ballasts (600W) and more expensive bulbs (600W) that is the way to go.

Heath is no dummy. If you play your cards right you might get DHF to weigh in here and it is my understanding that he has a lot of very, very good input regarding the 4-tree, 5-light setup you describe.

peace

as far as yield and what will outdo what... that is so subjective. a room as described properly utilizing defoliation and plant support/shaping will

The 600s are already in, so the cost isn't the issue, and the idea is to buy 4 more 1ks for a 5k upgrade once the outside temps drop. I'll probably just keep it how it is for this first run, and possibly even throw in a flip on two or all four of the 600s if temps are too high.

Thanks disciple, I think I'm coming around on the 3.5s, and luckily I got some hanging around from when I did hempys that might do just fine.

Is there any advantage to the black buckets I see being run over the white ones? Maybe algae growth or something like that?

Do y'all run your reservoirs outside of the room, so it doesn't get too hot? What about the control bucket? PPKs typically don't run chillers, correct? Are rez temps an issue?

One thing I haven't seen a lot of in this thread is complaints about root rot/pythium, or other show stopping root problems common in DWC.

Have you guys found that your ppks are stable/reliable enough to leave alone for a week or so if you had to take a vacation? Not as a regular thing, but if you had to, would you feel pretty confident you wouldn't come back to massive flooding or dead plants?