Pandora closes her amphora

[Siku]

Yes, I would like to buy these from CSI, but unfortunately they are in the US and I want to avoid these customs things now. Just ordered from RSC and it did not go through customs

 

[Genghis Kush.]

I just ordered some of these. Ive heard nothing but good things about these guys

Colombian Mango Biche - Humboldt CSI

Colombian Mango Biche ~ Colombian Mango Biche IBL An open […]

humboldtcsi.com

you'll be stoked! im sure you will end up with at least 3 freebie packs.
Im thinking about ordering the mystery 5 packs of seeds (35 seeds) for 80$ and asking for all Sativas . cant go wrong

https://humboldtcsi.com/product/trick-or-treat-5-mystery-hybrid-packs/

 

[Lebanizer]

...

As for their Lebanese variety, it comes from Grassman—not Gasman—a Spaniard who moved to Israel for work, if I recall correctly. I don’t remember exactly how he obtained the seeds, but they’re not from TRSC, as TRSC wasn’t around at the time. There’s information on Cannabiscafé if anyone wants to search for it.

I wrote that in one go so it was all from memory. But yeah it's grassman not gasman, close enough though. Some of the info is quite simply accessible on the Leb thread in the Ace forum. I notice that grassman's posts have been erased for some reason however (or I can't find them anymore). Here's what's left:

View media item 18722854

Regarding the Panama strain from CBG/Ace, they worked on it to make it more domesticated, suitable for indoor growing, and aligned with what the public wanted. When I saw it, it looked like a Critical-Skunk hybrid. Phylos even indicates a relation to Skunk. Who knows... but the flower shape, flowering time, and aromas bear little resemblance to the old Panama.

Yeah the flowering time alone is completely insane for an allegedly 100% equatorial strain (even if it's a 3 way hybrid). I mean 11 weeks ? Hello !

The plants I had from CBG were quite rawer and "wilder" than the ones from ACE. Also different aromas. Ace was all about very refined incense while CBG's was very very mentholated/eucalyptus. Vaporizing it felt like I had rubbed my vapo with Vix Vaporub
The effects also different. ACE very electric. CBG more lazy ass dreamy. But that was just one pack each so maybe not represenntative.

 

[420PyRoS]

I love them all. I just see the stark differences between all of them really. The 1971 and 1974 are indeed landraces, while the Snowhigh and Cryptic labs versions are the closes thing through seedbanks.

This is Huesos cut of the Cryptic Labs version. I have never, not even in the regular versions of Ace Panama which do flower longer (even up to 11 weeks or even 12), seen any plant look like this:

View attachment 19087575

Wait, what?

Wouldn't have Mystic gotten the Panama from Huesos?

I got the Panama from Huesos and I don't remember mystic working with them at the time.

If I'm wrong, I gotta clean up my history and talk to Mystic as I had no idea those were his.

 

[funkyhorse]

Then what I found in Colombian gold 72, I don't know what it was but that wasn't CG72

What you got is more than likely Coljam
The seed I got from a distributor sold to him by Cristalin as CG72 was Coljam. I got Coljam from another source and it was the same, very different from the CG72
And the repro of CG72 by JGL has ridicoulous male/female ratios and the progeny is inbreeding depression galore. I am guessing JGL reversed some female to pollinize the strain or some shit like that
So you didnt lose anything with this. Not good for breeding

I dont understand what makes people think eliminating hermies and "selecting" firm progeny will not result in hermaphroditism or mutations in the next generation of an hermie line with mutations like whorled phillotaxy

@Lebanizer
I probably have things to answer you but I am not sure if your interest is about the weed and the origins of it or if your interest is about bashing people and putting people at mud pedestals
If your interest is about the origin of the weed and the real story of it, then I am interested
I am interested in the historical facts.
I am not interested in the beef you might have with breeders or seedbanks.
I have a very bad opinion of them all. They think the plant is part of their egos, this is why weed is so fucked up today

If you are going to tell us Angus is an authority about weed and his weed is the real thing, I have nothing to answer I am not interested in bullshiters and bullshitting, whatever he sourced in Lebanon in 2008 is reintroduced weed after wars and if you find something growing in Lebanon it doesnt mean at all the seed is from there.
This guy Angus is a rampant plagiarist from others and his repros from London are pure garbage

@GrassMan is the guy who shared the seed sold as lebanese. He posted a couple of pics of huge greenhouses full of beautiful hashplants. He is a skilful grower
I doubt very much he or someone else knows the exact location of the exact place where this weed sold now as Lebanese grew. This is something I am very curious about
The weed was full of desert dust. One of the customers I was sourcing for weekly did wash the weed in order to clean them from the dust. It had plenty of seeds. The best was to use it mixing it with manali charas.
I really like Manali charas of the 90s
This lebanese never ever was a hashplant. It was sold in bud form and smoked as bud

This weed appeared right after the first Gulf War

@Raco posted the plants grown from those seeds in a very long thread Haze thread a few years ago
I sold this weed sold as lebanese at Aqaba Gulf to tourists. I was sourcing it there too
I sold the weed in matchboxes, same as other people in the area were doing. The weed was full, but full of seed. Half the matchbox was seed. It was going for 12,5-15u$s matchbox
I have no doubt the weed is from the desert sorrounding Aqaba, it should come from the desert north no more than 100-150kms away
I have spoken recently with friends from that time about this weed. None of us regard this shit highly at all
There were a lot of better things to preserve from the 90s, you get to wonder why they preserve this shit?

Particularly Dubi or whoever made the selection selected against the landrace.
@Ras Pablo So you made the first selection. Do you still have the originals? If you do, then the plants with the long internodes and low productivity are the landrace ones. I guess they should be the majority in the original seed popping
What did you find in the originals?
So what once was a sativa with some high turned into a hashplant with no high. It is not a criticism, it is just reporting facts
The landrace was the plant with long internodes and low productivity. Those ones had the high which was mild like 90 min long
If you still have originals you can find the landrace weed again. But it is weak weed, not worth preserving

The weed from the other side on Sinai desert was probably the best african weed. I find it incredible that the best weed has not been preserved at all
I blame it on lack of knowledge by the breeders. How can they know what to select for if they never smoked the original weed?
And guess who is copying this garbage? Yes, the great Angus did copy this shit and sell it with another name

The original lebanese hash was gone in the 80s with the Lebanon war. The original hash was a trophy of war, tanks were going back to Israel full of hash up to their tits. The hash lasted all 80s, same in Europe. By the end of 80s it was gone forever

Bekaa Valley is being bombed right now. Do you think plants will remain the same after the bombings and after the war? Do you understand about epigenetic changes?

I am honestly curious where this weed might have been grown. It was the 90s, there was no internet. There was not much knowledge about growing weed back then. The farmers let the plants pollinize badly. The tops of it were the least seeded buds and the best of it

What is interesting about Spain is the best weed has never been sold and is still kept there
The Punto Rojo they sourced in 2010 is garbage, OT1hz is a disaster for breeding, you get phenotypes all over the place and hermaphroditism too. High is totally washed down, probably something like F10 to F15 by now

I got lucky, somebody shared this with me
It is from an old seed batch when was still possible to send seed to this part of the world
It is called Angola x Senegal


It is fast weed, the best of all fast weed. It has landrace high. The only thing that comes close to it from the cannaworld are the Seedsman haze phenos finnishing in January northern hemisphere or July in the south.
This is much faster. This has the high of landrace weed like paraguayan from 1995-2010 or South east asian from the same time.
You smoke a small spliff made with OCB paper number 1 size, a few tokes of it gets you high a couple of hours. Not the weed to go to the supermarket to buy things

@dubi You have this Angola weed. You can make plenty of hybrids with it, you made some probably with weed I dont like, like your Panama, with a decent sativa different from OtHz will be better
Why is this not released?

I hope you all keep your beefs aside. Keep your beef private. It is not interesting at all
The history of the weed is very interesting. The historical anthropology of it too
Have a nice week everybody

 

[RobFromTX]

Angus is a cool guy. Hes just not very social. A question here or there about strains is okay but if you start getting philosophical on him you'll get called a shit weasel

 

[elchischas]

The peace corps seeds were obtained in Panama, suposedly, and are not related to the other sources (which is supposedly BCO Panama and Colombian Red varities). Now, what we do know about Panama 1974, straight from Charlie García's mouth, is that Ace Panama only has about 25% of the original Panama 1974 (2010 post on this thread: https://www.icmag.com/threads/panama-red-1974.194282/).

- Snowhigh's Double Panama is Panama Red 1974 (Peace Corps) x Panama Red Hair (BCO Lineage)
- Swami's Panama 1976 is Panama Red 1976 (Peace Corps)
- Ace Panama uses the Panama 1974 x Panama Red Hair and as stated by them Colombian Red varities (selected for fastest phenos with the best yields)
- Cryptic Labs Panama (Unknown, but suspected of being a Peace Corps version). It is long flowering and here is the famous Huesos cut that flowered for 96 days for grower Justgrowing420 (https://www.icmag.com/threads/reviv...-k-a-r-u-s-t-ii.325105/page-538#post-18531553).
- Panama 1971 from Hippie Cannabis Genetics (supposedly an earlier version of the 1974 Peace Corps)


All of these Panamas seem to be either some sort of cousins through the Panama Red Hair line potentially in most of them or distantly related (thanks to different sources of origin and selections like with the Peace Corps missions or the Colombian Red varities). IMO, what has really distinguished them is the selection betwee those who selected for the most domesticated traits, regardless of the fact that the source may indeed vary, versus those that obtained a line and selected plants towards the longest flowering ones.

Buenos días a todos!

I correct this:
Panama 1974 > original work by GreenGrocer
"Panama Red" (Rushman 1978 x PRRed2000). Panama Red hybrid originally produced by GreenGrocer, Charlie Garcia/Kaiki hybridized with La Mano Negra's to create ACE's line
Cryptic labs "Panamá" > same Panama 1974 from GreenGrocer (i'm not sure if huesos share with him the seeds?)

 

[Cannabrainer]

Buenos días a todos!

I correct this:
Panama 1974 > original work by GreenGrocer
"Panama Red" (Rushman 1978 x PRRed2000). Panama Red hybrid originally produced by GreenGrocer, Charlie Garcia/Kaiki hybridized with La Mano Negra's to create ACE's line
Cryptic labs "Panamá" > same Panama 1974 from GreenGrocer (i'm not sure if huesos share with him the seeds?)

This makes total sense. Hopefully, the original 1974 PR is still around!!

 

[PandoraSeedBank]

Hello funkyhorse.

I would bet that my seeds were Colombian Gold 72 and not Coljam. By flowering time and genetic traits.
I agree with you that some plants shed bananas at the end of flowering and that they were very inbred.
Some plants did not even have the strength to support themselves.
They were all eliminated.
The best that was found was selected for effect, vigor, resin, sexual stability... and the truth is that when mixed with oth it gave it what it lacked in vigor and gave it new blood.
For my taste it is a great variety.

About OTH, if it is true that you have a large number of genotypes and many plants are not good...I imagine that you have tried the Ace Seeds version. It has a lot of genetic variety since it is open pollinated from many plants. To find something special you need several packages.

I recommend you try Athena, OTH purple or green and Aphrodite.

There are 5 seeds per variety, they are few but I trust that you will find something that, if not a grail, is good.
If not you can come here and say it's shit.

I hope that now that Pandora seeds are free, many people will try all the varieties.

 

[PandoraSeedBank]

Afrodita

 

[quitelost]

Really cool project Pandora, I hope you continue with your work even if it isn't a commercial thing. I think I might still have some really old OTH seeds somewhere that came from another source than ACE years ago when Oldtimer(RIP) was still with us, they probably aren't viable due to age and bad storage, just never had the time/space. However I've grown and pollinated other long flowering varieties and know the dedication that it takes, respect for all your hard work. I'm happy to see that other people are doing something with his genetics and continuing Oldtimers legacy.

 

[Pédetoddy]

I am immensely grateful to Pandora Seeds for making these seeds available for free.
I will ensure that all of them are reproduced and kept in the refrigerator for long term storage.

 

[EnjoyingLife]

Ive heard great things about CSI too. What from Colorado Sativas have you ran? I was about to place an order with them a few years back but couldn't find any grow reports

I posted the panama grow over in the Colorado sativa's thread if you're interested in taking a look.
It's a lazy man's journal and caterpillars harassed me so the buds don't look great but it's there if you're interested.
The panama was a freebie when I grabbed destroyer and nannan blouclou (spelling?).

 

[Pédetoddy]

View attachment 19097148
I am immensely grateful to Pandora Seeds for making these seeds available for free.
I will ensure that all of them are reproduced and kept in the refrigerator for long term storage.

100 % germination . Thanks FSE and Pandora seeds.

 

[FeelHaze]

I never had one that went 12 weeks, not even close to that. But ive only ran the feminized and my growing conditions were certainly less than ideal. Its a great strain though, for novice and indoor growers alike

The regs definitely seem a tiny bit longer flowering to me.
I think our fastest panamas have been at the 10.5ish week range.

Mine went 11 weeks ...

So much beef and politics in the breeding game ... I wish Pandora, Ace and all the breeders on ICMAG good success

 

[H e d g e]

The mad thing is I’d have bought a pack of oth from everyone that had it available to get more diversity and vigour in the offspring, we need more people selling it pure if it’s to be saved.
The priority should be preservation, it’s a critically endangered none gmo fkn holy plant.

There’s a massive niche not being filled in the seed business with selling pure landraces that have been tested as unrelated to skunk og or hemp, I’d sell my left nut for a pack of herms if they tested none gmo.

I’m slowly finding homes for all the skunk hybrids I bought hoping they were pure, nobody wants them, can’t give them away.

 

[Hasch]

preservation, it’s a critically endangered none gmo fkn holy plant.

Yes, diversity to increase vigour and (afaiu) pathogen resistance.
And yeah, the fighting and dissing of breaders + seed sellers amongst each other isn't helping.

But I don't understand you labeling hybrids as gmo(s)


English is my second language so maybe I'm misunderstanding something here.
How are hybrids generally gmo?
@H e d g e

 

[H e d g e]

Yes, diversity to increase vigour and (afaiu) pathogen resistance.
And yeah, the fighting and dissing of breaders + seed sellers amongst each other isn't helping.

But I don't understand you labeling hybrids as gmo(s)


English is my second language so maybe I'm misunderstanding something here.
How are hybrids generally gmo?
@H e d g e

They’re not, just anything crossed with hemp og or skunk is gmo. A hybrid between two or more landraces is still a landrace according to the people who test the genetics.

 

[Hasch]

Ahh, I think now I'm starting to understand what you're saying.
@H e d g e

For me gmo is an organism where we manipulated the genes right at the level of dna.

Things like crossing two different phenos or strains is what I call breeding.

 

[H e d g e]

Ahh, I think now I'm starting to understand what you're saying.
@H e d g e

For me gmo is an organism where we manipulated the genes right at the level of dna.

Things like crossing two different phenos or strains is what I call breeding.

They used colchicine induced mutations to make polyploids, I call them gmo because the genetics were modified, changed. You can call them frankenplants, it makes no difference, the medicinal properties have been lost.