Panama

[low_and_slow]

mother...of...god...

Panacanna, was that a random bean or was that a selected pheno that you found after multiple attempts?

 

[Panacanna]

Thanks, guys.

This was just the luck of the draw. I bought one Panama fem and I got this purple pheno. This was the first clone from it. It also threw some nanners, so I got a few dozen seeds and I have one in veg now. I hope it bred true!

I'm growing it in a mineralized organic soil under a 600W hps.

 

[Terpene]

Napalm (fire og x destroyer) x Panama at 3 weeks under the LED. Both phenos smell minty, but one smells just like green dental floss. Starting to develop good frost, I'll report back on this one in a month or so.

 

[warcraft74]

About Panama recently breeding, we have recently done a new panama selection, growing dozens of parental plants from 5 different panama lines (lines ranging from 2008 to 2012). We have found amazing parental plants coming from all the phenos (green, red, pink and purple, from the lowest yielding very resinous phenos to the fatter better yielding expression, from the sweet earthy ones to the stronger lemony incensey types), we have produced fresh stock from all the desirable parental plants in standard format and the very best ones have been selected for the feminized reproduction that is in the process right now. The line is in really good shape!!

hey dubi, is that new feminized stock available now? if i were to order directly from ace, is that what i would get? i'm looking to grow 5 fems this summer and am looking for the more compact phenos (red and/or green) thanks!

 

[Panacanna]

hey dubi, is that new feminized stock available now? if i were to order directly from ace, is that what i would get? i'm looking to grow 5 fems this summer and am looking for the more compact phenos (red and/or green) thanks!

I grew the purple one shown above from one fem seed I got through a big reseller in the fall of 2013.

 

[recent guest]

I grew the purple one shown above from one fem seed I got through a big reseller in the fall of 2013.

Now thats a holy grail. Theres another picture of a purple pheno earlier in the thread, they do appear but I forget what Dubi said the frequency was. I wonder if the Ace brothers have been selecting toward the purple.

What is the smell like?

What is the effect like?

Also nice work, purpleness aside you have a well grown plant there

 

[Panacanna]

Now thats a holy grail. Theres another picture of a purple pheno earlier in the thread, they do appear but I forget what Dubi said the frequency was. I wonder if the Ace brothers have been selecting toward the purple.

What is the smell like?

What is the effect like?

Also nice work, purpleness aside you have a well grown plant there

Thanks for the compliment! I saw a similar purple on the Panama pics thread too.

I've read through this thread a couple times, and my sense is that the purple is in the single digit percentages, but I was surprised to learn that nearly 80% of the phenos exhibit red traits!

I've only been growing for a year and 11 strains so far, so I'm not very familiar with terpene descriptions. This one was amazing as it dried. It hit the 70%s Rh and exploded with aroma and taste - originally a piney cedar inhale - very strong - with some sort of soft creamy exhale - vanilla? chocolate? As it has cured down into the low 60s, the pine has gone a little more lemony towards a fuel taste but still retains the cedar aromatics.

I orginally described the high as one that won't let you forget you're under its influence. I saw dubi describe it as thick, and I agree. It's a sativa, but a firm one - more a sensual wind-down buzz than a git-er-done buzz. I like to mix it with a hazey sativa.

 

[recent guest]

Thanks for the compliment! I saw a similar purple on the Panama pics thread too.

I've read through this thread a couple times, and my sense is that the purple is in the single digit percentages, but I was surprised to learn that nearly 80% of the phenos exhibit red traits!

I've only been growing for a year and 11 strains so far, so I'm not very familiar with terpene descriptions. This one was amazing as it dried. It hit the 70%s Rh and exploded with aroma and taste - originally a piney cedar inhale - very strong - with some sort of soft creamy exhale - vanilla? chocolate? As it has cured down into the low 60s, the pine has gone a little more lemony towards a fuel taste but still retains the cedar aromatics.

I orginally described the high as one that won't let you forget you're under its influence. I saw dubi describe it as thick, and I agree. It's a sativa, but a firm one - more a sensual wind-down buzz than a git-er-done buzz. I like to mix it with a hazey sativa.

That was as good or better a description of terpenes as Ive ever read on here, I for one have a very difficult time describing smells. Its sort of like trying to describe a color. I've been growing for roughly a year too and about as many strains, doubt I'll ever give it up

 

[Panacanna]

That was as good or better a description of terpenes as Ive ever read on here, I for one have a very difficult time describing smells. Its sort of like trying to describe a color. I've been growing for roughly a year too and about as many strains, doubt I'll ever give it up

Ha, I can sure relate. I planned to take a couple months off this summer because of the heat, but I can't stop starting plants, heheh. And now I'm not sure I want to screw up the perpetual - takes 4 months to get it rolling again, after all.

And I've been lookin' at seeds again ... sigh

I think I gotta have a Tikal, a Destroyer, and Nepalese Jam be callin' my name, among others.

 

[recent guest]

Ha, I can sure relate. I planned to take a couple months off this summer because of the heat, but I can't stop starting plants, heheh. And now I'm not sure I want to screw up the perpetual - takes 4 months to get it rolling again, after all.

And I've been lookin' at seeds again ... sigh

I think I gotta have a Tikal, a Destroyer, and Nepalese Jam be callin' my name, among others.

I like your style for sure. The only one of those three I have experience with is Destroyer, and I advocate it's use. Zamaldelica, Golden Tiger, and a pack of Purple Haze are on my list, if I can get anything past customs anymore. Destroyer seems to be gold in homemade crosses, check out the link in my sig, sativa tent.

On the panama train, what a great genepool the Ace team has presented. Purple plants like that, RED pistils, good yields, smells, resin content, etc etc etc, across the board a winner in my book.

Heres the one in my tent, another two+ weeks to go:

 

[Panacanna]

I like your style for sure. The only one of those three I have experience with is Destroyer, and I advocate it's use. Zamaldelica, Golden Tiger, and a pack of Purple Haze are on my list, if I can get anything past customs anymore. Destroyer seems to be gold in homemade crosses, check out the link in my sig, sativa tent.

On the panama train, what a great genepool the Ace team has presented. Purple plants like that, RED pistils, good yields, smells, resin content, etc etc etc, across the board a winner in my book.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=51087&pictureid=1229241

The two standout strains I've grown - the ones that best suit my tastes and have the most punch - have been Utopia Haze and Panama. This makes me think I need to explore the basic American strains better. I definitely want some Thai sativa, but they're a pain to grow, so I'm going to try some crosses, hence the Destroyer. I thought I wanted some Zamaldelica, but I've had a couple African crosses and I'm not sure I like that disorienting high, so maybe next time. Purple Haze is defnitely going to be in a future run.

Your Panama looks gorgeous! It' a fabulous strain, as you say, with a rich and stable array of phenos. Cool stuff.

 

[warcraft74]

I orginally described the high as one that won't let you forget you're under its influence. I saw dubi describe it as thick, and I agree. It's a sativa, but a firm one - more a sensual wind-down buzz than a git-er-done buzz. I like to mix it with a hazey sativa.

...but it still has that fun, mind expanding high as opposed to that fuzzy, confused stone that commercial indica/sativa hybrids give you, right (even the sativa dominant ones)? i understand panama is not clear like a thai, but at the same time not boring and dull like the hybrids i speak of, i hope. i'm really trying to get away from that boring high that doesn't make conversation, music or video games more fun.

well, i guess that purple pheno may not be what i desire, but from what iv'e gathered, that one is the most indica-type pheno that can appear. have you tried the green and/or red pheno, and do you think those would suit my want?

 

[Panacanna]

...but it still has that fun, mind expanding high as opposed to that fuzzy, confused stone that commercial indica/sativa hybrids give you, right (even the sativa dominant ones)? i understand panama is not clear like a thai, but at the same time not boring and dull like the hybrids i speak of, i hope. i'm really trying to get away from that boring high that doesn't make conversation, music or video games more fun.

well, i guess that purple pheno may not be what i desire, but from what iv'e gathered, that one is the most indica-type pheno that can appear. have you tried the green and/or red pheno, and do you think those would suit my want?

It's a litle confusing, yes. When I first smoked it and got hit with that rush, it felt like the same old boring indica fuzziness, and it puzzled me. But it doesn't progress. When I smoke Panama, it's as if it steps up a notch with each hit - stairstep-like - but the dreaminess doesn't. I wouldn't call it a "soaring" high, but it's conversational as long as you respect limits. I've always loved listening to music when I'm high and Panama is especially good for that. I haven't tried gaming, so I don't know how it affects reflex and focus.

In a way, it's the polar opposite of how I described the Africans. It isn't a disorienting teeth-gritting buzz - no hint of paranoia. It's nothing like a Haze, for instance. But there's no indica to drag you steadily down, either.

I like to mix Panama with some Super Lemon Haze or a Neville's-leaning Tangerine Dream I grew. The Panama mellows out the SLH, and the SLH buzzes up the Panama a bit.

 

[warcraft74]

thanks for your help pannacanna - i'll most likely try it outdoors come this summer. enjoy your harvest

 

[bwoyrude]

Panama fem 3rd week flo

 

[recent guest]

...but it still has that fun, mind expanding high as opposed to that fuzzy, confused stone that commercial indica/sativa hybrids give you, right (even the sativa dominant ones)? i understand panama is not clear like a thai, but at the same time not boring and dull like the hybrids i speak of, i hope. i'm really trying to get away from that boring high that doesn't make conversation, music or video games more fun.

well, i guess that purple pheno may not be what i desire, but from what iv'e gathered, that one is the most indica-type pheno that can appear. have you tried the green and/or red pheno, and do you think those would suit my want?

You definitely wont be disappointed if you are comparing Panama to commercial hybrid strains. As Dubi said earlier in the thread, the Red is a little bit 'denser' in effect, but far from a 'dirty sativa'.

My educated guess is that at some point in the past the origin gene pool of this strain was infiltrated by some afghan/indica genetics, but there is hardly a population in the world that hasn't been hybridized at some point in the past. The question is how distant that point is and how significant the addition of indica genetics is. For example, one afghan plant mixed into millions of sativas would be diluted almost instantly and/or entirely bred out. The panama leaf shape, bud structure, smell and flowering time seem to point to some distant indica genes.

I may be wrong, someone put me in my place if I am.

The thing to emphasize is that I trust the Ace seed company and the spanish brothers to a high degree, they are very upstanding gentlemen and would not mislead customers about the sources of their genetics.

 

[Terpene]

My educated guess is that at some point in the past the origin gene pool of this strain was infiltrated by some afghan/indica genetics, but there is hardly a population in the world that hasn't been hybridized at some point in the past. The question is how distant that point is and how significant the addition of indica genetics is. For example, one afghan plant mixed into millions of sativas would be diluted almost instantly and/or entirely bred out.

I once read an article that said there was no real difference scientifically in indica and sativa cannabis plants and that it was entirely an evolved trait based on environmental conditions. According to the article, all cannabis is cannabis sativa, and further changes would be modifications of the original family, "cannabis sativa indica" for indicas or "cannabis sativa ruderalis", etc..

The point they were explaining is that all cannabis evolved from a single family of cannabis which was then distributed by humans as they migrated throughout the world. From the authors point of view, everything basically started in Afghanistan / Pakistan and moved out from the middle east to africa, asia, europe and eventually to north and south america.

This would also tend to explain why different environmental conditions lead to certain clone-only cuts eventually developing different characteristics after multiple generations of stresses, lighting types and so on.

The point I'm trying to make is, worrying about the indica content of naturalized landraces like Panamanians or other plants that have had at least hundreds of years to acclimatize to an area is a bit of a waste of time. For those who are allergic or develop reactions to certain plant families, the best thing you can do is to test the flowers on yourself (in small doses) and see how you react. I would wager your reactions are to the terpenes within the plant which change wildly between individual strains.

 

[kiwigreen420]

Funny how the green one has wider leaves but longer flower.
Same aroma as the other 2 phenos.

Anyone else have experience with the green ones?

 

[warcraft74]

My educated guess is that at some point in the past the origin gene pool of this strain was infiltrated by some afghan/indica genetics, but there is hardly a population in the world that hasn't been hybridized at some point in the past.

man - that's what has me worried. i am in fact allergic to indicas/afghani/skunk/at least one of those and i'm not sure which one (whichever one is in commercial hybrids). what i think i'm actually allergic to is the dry, sandy keif. it seems the moister, brighter green strains i get that have crystals only, i'm fine with (http://i.imgur.com/AilR8tt.jpg), but it's the drier commercial strains with the brown, sandy keif that really bother me. simply put, the tropical looking varieties like the one in that pic i'm okay with.

panama seems to look sort of in-between but eh... i'll prob just have to try it and find out. i'd grow some thai or something similar, but my outdoor camo grow won't allow for something so tall and lanky.

thanks for your inputs guys.

 

[recent guest]

man - that's what has me worried. i am in fact allergic to indicas/afghani/skunk/at least one of those and i'm not sure which one (whichever one is in commercial hybrids). what i think i'm actually allergic to is the dry, sandy keif. it seems the moister, brighter green strains i get that have crystals only, i'm fine with (http://i.imgur.com/AilR8tt.jpg), but it's the drier commercial strains with the brown, sandy keif that really bother me. simply put, the tropical looking varieties like the one in that pic i'm okay with.

panama seems to look sort of in-between but eh... i'll prob just have to try it and find out. i'd grow some thai or something similar, but my outdoor camo grow won't allow for something so tall and lanky.

thanks for your inputs guys.

It sounds like Panama would be a good choice, especially for an outdoor guerilla grow. It doesn't stretch that much and the yield is good. I wouldn't worry about my observations about potential indica influence in south american populations. I have no solid proof of this and I don't actually have enough experience with cannabis to talk about that with authority anyway. I would trust the word of the Ace guys, (dubi, etc) they are directly involved with the breeding and they know exactly, and as I keep saying, they wont lie or mislead like some vendors might. My comment was more of a question than an observation anyway.

Panama is probably closer to common commercial strains than, say, a pure thai, but it is still far from skunky. Give her a try, whats the worst that can happen?