Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[TryComb]

I got this mix from my local nursery:

Composted bark 45%
Vermiculite 23%
Peat Moss 20%
Perlite 12%

I also plan on adding dolomite lime, eathworm castings, and some more perlite. Recipie similar to LC #1 soilless mix. I will also be using Fox Farm liquid nutes the three pack. think this will be a good mix but what do you all think?? Any comments would be great.

Thanks everyone

trycomb

 

[BurnOne]

TryComb-
This is just my opinion...
Bark is no good.
I don't use vermiculite. Holds too much water. You want drainage.
Needs 20% to 40% perlite.
Fox Farm three pack- not organic.
Burn1

 

[TryComb]

Thanks alot BurnOne. I totally thought that stuff was organic. I was planing on having at least that much perlite. The vermiculite is tiny will it still hold alot of water? Can I add some regular top soil? I know its not organic but can I still use the fox farm I already bought it? (opps)

Thanks for your comments I welcome all help.

TryComb

 

[Clackamas Coot]

CC-
No, if you're using this recipe...


LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Canadian Spaghnam Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered (NOT PELLETIZED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.


...then it amounts to


LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
50% Canadian Spaghnam Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
30% perlite
20% wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered (NOT PELLETIZED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.

Burn1

BurnOne

Sorry for the misunderstanding - my observation was that products like 'Sunshine Mix' or 'Pro Mix' are simply 'soilless mixtures' which are made up of 50% peat/coir and 50% soil aggregates, i.e. perlite, pumice, vermiculite, et al.

Sorry for any confusion regarding my question.

CC

 

[Fresh Start]

Hey burn1, I know you are a cool guy and all, and you know alot about the cannabis forums and all.. but riddle me this...

I posted my coco organic grow journal/thread in the coco coir growing space. After reading the organics forums I have concluded organics are my people. I would like to move my thread over here and maybe change the title. can you do that for me?? since you are a moderator?

Now on to my other (organic) question. thank you for your patience...

I'm using calcium carbonate in my soil mix (oyster shells) so I need mag. I ran out to my local health food store and bought magnesium sulfate U.S.P. ... I have no idea if this is the right kind or what the USP part stands for.. If I CAN use the salts, how would my dosages fit into your recipe for guano tea throughout a plants life cycles? I was thinking foliar feeding it in small amount like 1/8 tbsp per gallon. Thanks man -Fresh

 

[magiccannabus]

Epsom salts(magnesium sulfate) is best used as a foliar spray. It is a salt and can mess with the electric conductivity of your soil. I even cover my soil when I do a foliar spray with any kind of salt. Mainly I use magnesium sulfate and potassium chloride. Both seem to be very hard to burn the plants with as long as you cover that soil properly.

 

[Fresh Start]

Vegan Bat poo

Vegan Bat poo

So are you stating that the mag sulfate creates sufficient disturbance to EC in the soil to deter me from spraying it there? Because when you say "I even cover my soil when I do a foliar spray with any kind of salt" it sounds like you foliar spray and also add it to the top of the soil. Excuse me if i read that wrong?

I was just wondering about the sulfate because when i looked it up, I found magnessium carbonate in different forms. One of them being agricultural graded. Just thought that would be the one everyone would recommend. and what the hell does USP mean? In all cases, thanks magic for the quick response. There's no love in the Coco threads. everyone just wants bigger yields from it. There's not enough sway of excitement for Eco friendly vegan organics. (although I had a discussion with my girlfriend who is a vegan about how bat poo is not vegan , I think it is)

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Soil Amendments

Soil Amendments

Here is an article at ATTRA (National Sustainable Agriculture Information Service) which covers many of the soil amendments discussed on this and other garden forums.

It's a good read and the information is well supported.

This web site in general is full of information about organic processes.

ATTRA - National Sustainable Agriculture Information Service is managed by the National Center for Appropriate Technology (NCAT) and is funded under a grant from the United States Department of Agriculture's Rural Business-Cooperative Service. It provides information and other technical assistance to farmers, ranchers, Extension agents, educators, and others involved in sustainable agriculture in the United States. (ATTRA was formerly known as the "Appropriate Technology Transfer for Rural Areas" project.)

HTH

CC

 

[K.J]

Now, when you add Recipe #1 to LC's Mix #1 it becomes a complete growing soil. A 3 to 5 gallon pot of it will be enough to grow all the way to harvest without (in most cases) adding anything else but water.

A word of caution here. You can't germ seeds or plant young seedlings in the LC's Mix with blood/bone/kelp added to it until they're at least 2 to 4 weeks old. The nitrogen in the blood will burn them. Rooted clones will be just fine though.

Oh man do I feel like a moron. I used the LC's Mix #1 along with the Dry Fert #1 recipe. I mixed it ALL together in a large bin and cooked it for 2 weeks. I'm now using it in 4" pots with my very young (about 2 weeks old) seedlings. I didn't know you waited on the dry ferts until after the seedlings were 2-4 weeks old! I also just put a Spice bean that had barely cracked into the soil mix in a 4" pot; we've had such bad luck with germing using the paper towel-then-rockwool method that we decided to try something new. But I guess it's likely just to burn this freshly hatched bean?

Oh well, an experiment I guess. NOOOOOB!

 

[Suby]

KJ seedlings are tough when i comes to handling, a hot medium is another story though.
Take the seedling and break up the medium in your hand and transplant it as best you can into a fresh mix, you'll be surprised how little the transplant will affect them.
To help give them a very fine and light misting of liquid kelp and you'll be fine IMO.
If the soil is too hot they're toast for sure and it will delay of cause rooting to halt.

 

[K.J]

KJ seedlings are tough when i comes to handling, a hot medium is another story though.
Take the seedling and break up the medium in your hand and transplant it as best you can into a fresh mix, you'll be surprised how little the transplant will affect them.
To help give them a very fine and light misting of liquid kelp and you'll be fine IMO.
If the soil is too hot they're toast for sure and it will delay of cause rooting to halt.

Wow, seriously? Even thought they're looking good right now? Check out my grow at the link in my sig and see what you think after looking at some pics.

 

[dirkdaddy]

ok burn (or anyone) I got a few more questions I need to throw your way. first off let me state that I love this thread and the organics forum. thanks to you guys my first, second, and third attempt (should be done soon) have gone beautifully with only a minor hiccup near the end.

heres my problem. I am using LC's mix with coir and am using the dry amendments from recipe #1. the problem is the dry nutes aren't enough to last until harvest. I know for sure this is true because the same problem arises at the same time during flower. they look great until about week 5-6 when they begin to show massive N deficiencies and begin to cannibalize its leaves very fast. i've tried 4 different strains and all act the same way. I realize this is natural but it seems way to fast to be good for the plant. I mean when it shows up it is a very, very rapid process of cannibalizing the leaves.

I believe what makes my experience different from yours is the container size. I use 2 gallon, you use 3. these deficiencies are showing up on plants vegged just over 2 weeks and even earlier on a plant vegged 4 (obviously since it needed the extra N versus the 2 weeker). my question is is it possible to have enough dry nutes to last me all the way through till harvest in a 2 gallon bag? I assume the answer will be to top dress with castings and kelp meal (I just did this last night, I don't know what I didn't think of it sooner). I would really prefer to just watering with water, molasses, and LK instead of having to use liquid nutes near the end. you think my castings/kelp solution is the right way to go?

if top dressing is not enough I am going to go ahead and pick up some organic gem fish fertilizer to help the guys along starting around week 5. I am not too satisified with my current liquid nutes. I realize that with my container size it may not be possible to rely entirely upon dry nutes in the soil.

 

[OnThePipe]

Dirkdaddy I've experienced the exact same situation as you in 2 gal containers. 4 weeks in, yellowing begins and fans start to suffer. i'm pretty sure it's a lack of nitrogen because it stars at the bottom. I'm in LC's #1 w/ dry ferts also according to the sticky (4 parts peat, 2 parts coir). However, cuts from the same plants grown in 3 gallon at my bud's place were green almost all the way through an he's on the same mix and regimen. He also repotted late after the flip so I believe the addition of the food later also contributed to his success. I'm going to move to 3's 1 -2 weeks after the flip this time.

 

[BurnOne]

Guys, just supplement with some nitrogen. Dried blood tea, Mexican bat guano tea or fish emulsion will work fine.
Burn1

 

[Fresh Start]

good teas

good teas

Thought this would be a good re post.

"Foam is not always an indicator that your brew is done. I have looked at ACT with a big head of foam which had very little microbial life. If you have good extraction, sufficient aeration and good quality compost or vermicompost you should have a decent microbial consortia in 36 to 42 hours. Use you nose. Once you can no longer smell your foodstock (molasses, fish, etc) it is a good indication that the microbes have consumed them." -Microbeman

 

[InjectTruth]

Suppose you used LC mix one and recipe one, but you left the worm casting/compost out of the mix? Will this completely negate the effectiveness of the mix?

I have everything on hand except for castings, and walmart around here doesnt have em.

 

[K.J]

Suppose you used LC mix one and recipe one, but you left the worm casting/compost out of the mix? Will this completely negate the effectiveness of the mix?

Your mix will definitely be lacking if you don't have EWC's. I'm sure someone smarter than I about organics will come along and tell you why, but definitely do NOT skip out on those.

 

[InjectTruth]

Yeah, they seem too integral to omit.


I do have espoma bio tone 4-3-3, good stuff like feather meal, crab meal, sulfate of potash magnesia, alfalfa, dehydrated manure, on and on, I dont remember all off hand.

It recommends 1 cup per gallon of soil. If this was supplemented with 2 tbl/gal of bone meal, would this be a sufficient mix for the 'water only' treatment?

 

[Fresh Start]

Life of the tea

Life of the tea

How long can the tea's be kept? i made a gallon of it and have some left over. Could I just feed it more molasses and bubble it longer to keep for 2+ days?

 

[GeneticHeirloom]

if this has been asked I am very sorry, just spent 30 minutes looking but couldn't find it...

If I were to be using this organic soil set up:

"Soilless Mix :
30 Gallons – 15 parts Coco Coir
9 parts Perlite
6 parts Wormcastings or Mushroom compost
60 Tablespoons Powdered Dolomite Lime

Ferts:
RECIPE #1
If you want to use organic nutes like blood, bone and kelp...
Dry Ferts:
1 tablespoon blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.
Mix all the dry ferts into the soiless mix well and wet it, but don't soak it with Liquid Karma and water @ 1 tbs./gal. Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two so the bacteria can get oxygen and break down the bone meal and make it available. And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed. It'll also have time to get the humic acids in the Liquid Karma going and the dolomite lime will be better able to adjust the pH of a peat based mixture too.
With this recipe, all you need to do is add plain water until harvest.
When I'm working with seeds, I punch a hole in the bottom of 16 ounce cups and fill them with plain LC's Mix. Lightly wet the mix in the cups and germ one seed in each cup. At the same time I mix enough LC's mix along with the blood/bone/kelp to fill all the 3 gallon flower pots I'm going to use for the grow. After about two weeks, the seedlings and the blood/bone/kelp mix are ready. I transplant the seedlings into the 3 gallon pots and just add water until harvest.
When you go to flower and pull up the males, save the mix in the pots. It is ready to be used again immediately. Just remove the root ball and transplant another seedling into it.

Watering:
Vegetative: Pure RO water
Flowering : Pure RO water



-----

How should I water? Would submersion be ok? How often should I water?

Cheers!

edit: Would be a SoG in 16 ounce pop bottles.