Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[Microbeman]

Thanks for the info. Has anyone ever heard /tired Boogie Brew?

Garbage. Run away.

 

[Mikell]

^That. The pricing alone makes one cringe

 

[wizardoz9]

MM- thanks for the reply. I suspect I miscalculated something in my mix as well as not adding enough compost or kelp meal and this is the result. At times it looked like a mag lockout and now looks like calcium. I've had problems from early on and I didn't want to force anything on it and make it worse but I probably did. I tried ewc/kelp/molassas teas, top dressed with ewc, etc. I think I can still salvage them ( 3 more weeks) and that's why I decided to start with a new mix (the one in my post).


PH - I had alfalfa meal, blood meal, bone meal, dolo, greensand and oyster shell in the original mix so I don't thing it lacks cal/mag - I think it's getting locked out along with other essential nutes. I probably messed up the proportions of the amendments.

Thanks again for the replies.

 

[snufkin]

I am planning on a new soil mix from the ingredients I've got locally available and would like some comments on it before mixing everything up.

The soil mix would be 1/3 old used soil, 1/3 compost and 1/3 sphagnum and the added goodies:

3 tbsp bone meal / gallon
1-2 tbsp kelp / gallon
3 tbsp chicken manure / gallon
3 tbsp birch ashes / gallon
1-2 tbsp diatomaceous earth / gallon

maybe some coffee grounds, ground egg shells etc?? just something easily found to diversify the mix. Plus mulch on top.

Does that sound about right to start with?

 

[inreplyavalon]

Your up potting process is dependent on your approach to organics.

Some organic methods allow for the same container strategies that you use in coco. Such as LC#2 combined with earth juice teas.

On the other spectrum methods with such as LOS (living organic soil no till) you want to disturb as little of the soil as possible so multiple transplants become counterintuitive to the method and are less productive.

After working with several organic methods I have transitioned to LOS and prefer it as a methodology.

I root in rockwool mostly, put them into plastic cups or small potting containers (say 5"x5"x5") and that is it, they go right into the final pot from there (10 gallon smart pot).

I veg them in the final container in the flowering room, the living soil is aggressive (more so the longer its established) however and I find I only need a 2-3 weeks before I am ready to flip and based on my previous runs I am over vegging a bit, although I do tend to slip when it comes to time lines.

It works well for me and my situation and desired results.

Have you decided on which direction you wanted to go in organically?

What are your desired/required results?

I apologize for my delayed response. I actually forgot i posted this, and then remembered!
That clarifies things for me Weird. I am trying the LOS style to start. My main motivation in switching from chem ferts in coco to organics is that i want to learn how to do it. I want to expand my vegetable gardening and i prefer eating organic food. I spend a lot of time gardening and would like to take advantage of the time spent and teach myself a new skill(organics). I hope to be able to yield similar amounts and keep the bag appeal at the level it is at.

can you clarify for me, that you veg for 2-3 weeks total and flower in 10 gallon pots? The reason i thought i needed to up-pot is that i remembered reading about PH issues developing if grown in the same soil for too long. Is that an exaggerated issue, or none at all with organics?

Thanks for your help, organic has proven to be a fun challenge so far.

 

[inreplyavalon]

@inreplyavalon:

if you have space contraints then its fine to use smaller pots when the plants are small. i actually think that you get a better/bigger root system that way anyway because canna roots arent that efficient at using all the soil. (that said i till and amend the soil each run)

the main thing if you are up-potting as the plants grow is to do so before the growth slows down or stalls. ride that wave of explosive growth!

I never thought to transplant during growth spurts, i like the thinking behind it.

Verdant can you elaborate on the point above, "(that said i till and amend the soil each run)"? Do you till and amend the soil at the start of the run, reusing last rounds soil? and also pot-up as the round progresses? If so, is a bottled enzyme product needed/used to assist in breaking down the roots from the last plant?

Thanks for conversing, fascinating stuff.

 

[Microbeman]

It is an interesting subject; the occupation of availble soil by cannabis roots. When we grew as VG mentioned by reusing and reamending soil from 5 gallon pots, the pots were usually fully packed with roots (an enormous root ball).

After that we switched to no-till in 36"x12x14/16"(deep) bins and 5 to 7 years later when we took them down, once again we found the whole volume filled with roots.

This past growing season we tried a new method. We built up a bed of soil on top of domestic ground (shale & clay) about 14 to 18" deep. It was built with a mix of topsoil, vermicompost, thermophilic compost, sphagnum peatmoss, pea gravel, sand, local rock dust and topdressed with 2 year aged horse manure & wood shavings. In the first season we grew crimson clover and killed it. The next season it grew up with local weeds, mostly horsetail & burdock. We weed wacked and covered with landscape cloth and built a greenhouse on top.

This past season we cut about 10" holes through the cloth and planted various cannabis cultivars (indica & sativa). We have a very high water table here but had an exceptionally dry hot summer. Plants in pots needed daily watering and in our other greenhouse on average every 4 days. Despite this dry spell, the cloth planted ones were watered only once in the entire season and this was with compost tea. They received no nutrient supplements yet grew so vigorously that they had to be cut back around 2 to 4 feet twice.

I assumed they had shot roots deep into the ground for water and nutrients. After harvest I got my buddy to excavate a few of the root systems just to see. I was completely astounded to find the roots had spread rather than gone down...pretty much the top 8 to 10 inches. Always learning. The soil itself must have wicked moisture from the water table and perhaps the nutrients stored in the
[v]compost and killed weeds was plentiful.

 

[exstr]

Thanks for the great info! When you talk about your tea recipes and watering with them, do you bubble/brew each tea recipe for 24 hours before use? Do you combine the molasses and everything in the stocking everytime and bubble that? what do you do with the brewed waste matter ie the stuff from the stocking? Thanks for any info:

"Veg mix-

1/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/3 cup High N Bat Guano (Mexican)
1/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (EWC)

(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)

Mix with water @ 1 cup of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.

To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Maxicrop or Neptune's Harvest liquid seaweed.
5 tsp. Black Strap Molasses

Use it to water with every 3rd watering.

Flowering nute tea mix:

2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)

(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)

Mix with water @ 2 cups of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.

To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Maxicrop or Neptune's Harvest liquid seaweed.
5 tsp. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with EVERY watering.

You can use queen size knee high nylon stockings for tea bags. 3 pair for a dollar at the dollar store. Tell 'em you use them for paint strainers. Put the recommended tea in the stocking, tie a loop knot in it and hang it in your tea bucket. The tea should look like a mud puddle. Agitate the bag in the water vigorously. An aquarium pump and air stone will dissolve oxygen into the solution and keep the good bacteria (microherd) alive and thriving. Let it bubble a day or two before you use it. If you find you are making too much tea and having to throw it out, use 2 1/2 gallons of water and cut the nute amount by half."

 

[Microbeman]

http://www.microbeorganics.com/#More_on_Compost_Tea_2013_

 

[FireDancer]

I have used a soilless mix for a long time now, but have recently adapted it to make my grow organic. Here's my current mix:
2.2 cu ft. Peat Moss
1.5 cu. ft. Hampton's Finest Compost (though this time I had to get Dr. Earth's Natural Choice compost instead)
50 litres Perlite, Super Coarse
To this I add:
2 cups Dolomite Lime
2 cups Azomite
2 cups Diatomite
2 cups Espoma Bio-Tone
1 cup Bone Meal

I water with Alfalfa Tea @ 2 cups per gallon and 1 oz MaxiCrop liquid seaweed. Every other feeding also gets 1 tsp. Earth Juice grow or bloom, depending on stage of growth.

So, is there anything else I should be adding to my mix or nute schedule? I can see my plants doing better already, but there's always room for improvement! Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks!

 

[vitamingreeninc]

So, I am going to make #1 and do recipe #1...I like to veg my clones/seedlings for 4-5 weeks to get as much yield as possible, I'm limited on space-4sq foot.

Should I just transplant from rapid rooter when first showing roots-16 oz cup with plain mix for 2 weeks-1 gallon woth plain mix for 2 weeks then to 5 gallon with added nutes for 2 weeks veg plus flower? Is this legitimate?

To reuse the soil I just add in, per cubic foot...what exactly? Lol thanks!

 

[Bueno Time]

So, I am going to make #1 and do recipe #1...I like to veg my clones/seedlings for 4-5 weeks to get as much yield as possible, I'm limited on space-4sq foot.

Should I just transplant from rapid rooter when first showing roots-16 oz cup with plain mix for 2 weeks-1 gallon woth plain mix for 2 weeks then to 5 gallon with added nutes for 2 weeks veg plus flower? Is this legitimate?

To reuse the soil I just add in, per cubic foot...what exactly? Lol thanks!

Sounds good to me vitamin, I have just recently upgraded slightly to 6 sq ft flowering tent but for a few years I was flowering in 3.75 sq ft tent and know pretty well how to maximize small spaces and what you said for transplant schedule sounds pretty much exactly what I do.

I dont use rapid rooters I put germinating seed that has cracked open on moist paper towels directly into 16oz cup and after 2 weeks from sprout I transplant to final container anywhere from 1/2 gallon-2 gallon grow bags (just started using 3 gallons in my 6sqft'er but might try bigger or one big soil bed next run). And I would usually top a couple days after transplant from 16oz cup and veg for another week before flip to 12/12. I had only 3ft height including soil depth and lighting so it was real cramped. My new tent is 5 ft tall which is still short but I can veg for another 1-1.5 weeks with the extra 2ft height.

Anyway I find that if I let seedlings go any longer than around 14 days in 16oz cups they start to get root bound and slow down growth a bit. I like to ride the wave of explosive growth as much as possible as the plants grow exponentially faster as they gain a larger root mass. I find 14 days is perfect for transplant form 16oz cups into either a size up like you want to 1 gal for two weeks then to 5 gal sounds great. I might not recommend going straight to final container in your case since its 5 gal from 16oz thats a really large jump, your idea sounds good.

I will let others more experienced chime in on the re-amendment quantities as I am only on my second run with re-amended recycled soil so I am still learning myself.

 

[vitamingreeninc]

Sounds good to me vitamin, I have just recently upgraded slightly to 6 sq ft flowering tent but for a few years I was flowering in 3.75 sq ft tent and know pretty well how to maximize small spaces and what you said for transplant schedule sounds pretty much exactly what I do.

I dont use rapid rooters I put germinating seed that has cracked open on moist paper towels directly into 16oz cup and after 2 weeks from sprout I transplant to final container anywhere from 1/2 gallon-2 gallon grow bags (just started using 3 gallons in my 6sqft'er but might try bigger or one big soil bed next run). And I would usually top a couple days after transplant from 16oz cup and veg for another week before flip to 12/12. I had only 3ft height including soil depth and lighting so it was real cramped. My new tent is 5 ft tall which is still short but I can veg for another 1-1.5 weeks with the extra 2ft height.

Anyway I find that if I let seedlings go any longer than around 14 days in 16oz cups they start to get root bound and slow down growth a bit. I like to ride the wave of explosive growth as much as possible as the plants grow exponentially faster as they gain a larger root mass. I find 14 days is perfect for transplant form 16oz cups into either a size up like you want to 1 gal for two weeks then to 5 gal sounds great. I might not recommend going straight to final container in your case since its 5 gal from 16oz thats a really large jump, your idea sounds good.

I will let others more experienced chime in on the re-amendment quantities as I am only on my second run with re-amended recycled soil so I am still learning myself.

Perfect answer. Which mix did you use for those smaller containers? I am coming from Hempy, and can easily get an Oz per gallon milkjug, but I know in soil that would only be like a half OZ with same amount of veg time so I either have to use less plants/bigger pots or more small plants, blah.

Have you ever used a SIP system with smart pots? It seems to be a way to do this organic soil with hydro growth...

 

[exstr]

when using lc's mix 2 and recipe 3 where does silica for the plants come from? i've always used a silica supplement in synthetics...

 

[FireDancer]

when using lc's mix 2 and recipe 3 where does silica for the plants come from? i've always used a silica supplement in synthetics...

You can use diatomaceous earth foe silica.

 

[exstr]

You can use diatomaceous earth foe silica.

Thanks I've used it in the past for pest control, I am assuming just a little bit top dressed would be good for silica....how much would you do?

 

[vitamingreeninc]

Just placed my order for everything!
Got MG Blood and Bone, 2 lb bag each
Dr. Earth Kelp 5 lb
1.7 cf coarse perlite
1 cf pro moss
20 lb bag Agrowinn EWC
Liquid Karma
And I already had a coco brick that I will use with the pro moss at a 2:1 moss to coco ratio....now I just need to order my smart pots and I will be ready. Speaking of which, is 3 gallon good enough for a week of veg+8-10 weeks flower? Or should I go up to 5 gallon? I am extremely limited on space, but in 4 sq feet I am attempting to yield 200 grams or so...

 

[vitamingreeninc]

I'm sorry, I can't edit my own posts? I also got 5 lbs of powdered dolomite lime lol, that would be important huh?

 

[dank.frank]

How many plants are you putting in the 2 x 2 ???

I used to run 9 in 1.7 gallon rose buckets in the same space under a 400w and would pull 5-8oz strain depending...so it's certainly possible.

If you are only running one plant - and trying to hit those numbers...and plan to veg the plant in the same container you are going to flower it in - that makes me think you should plan on using a screen and doing a SCROG. In which case, you should really consider 5 gallons - but I'd suggest you take a 10 gallon smart pot and fold it in half to make a wider 5 gallon container vs going with 5 gallon buckets.

But then again, that is just presumption...

You can get away with vegging for one week in a 3 gallon - depending on how big the plant is prior to being put into the 3 gallon. If you've vegged it out in anything bigger than a 1/2 gallon before transplanting to 3 gallon - you could run into some issues with anything running longer than 9 wks...



dank.Frank

 

[vitamingreeninc]

How many plants are you putting in the 2 x 2 ???

I used to run 9 in 1.7 gallon rose buckets in the same space under a 400w and would pull 5-8oz strain depending...so it's certainly possible.

If you are only running one plant - and trying to hit those numbers...and plan to veg the plant in the same container you are going to flower it in - that makes me think you should plan on using a screen and doing a SCROG. In which case, you should really consider 5 gallons - but I'd suggest you take a 10 gallon smart pot and fold it in half to make a wider 5 gallon container vs going with 5 gallon buckets.

But then again, that is just presumption...

You can get away with vegging for one week in a 3 gallon - depending on how big the plant is prior to being put into the 3 gallon. If you've vegged it out in anything bigger than a 1/2 gallon before transplanting to 3 gallon - you could run into some issues with anything running longer than 9 wks...



dank.Frank

Nice, was that with no veg, and a organic mix? Yeah, I was honestly thinking I could go bigger than 10 gallon, but man that woiluld take forever. I am pheno hunting now with 4 plants and I think 3 are female!

I just went two days ago from mini Hempys-16oz all perlite to half-gallon soil, verm, and perlite. They are 25 days from seed, and I just ordered all that stuff for the mix. Idk how long I truly need to cook this mix for before I can put these girls in it?I'm a little behind schedule lol

I will go 3 gallon smarties for the hunt, and just cut clones. Do I keep mothers in the mix with the amendment recipe #1 or just the plain recipe #1?

Thanks for the responses, that's three diff people I have had help me with no contentiousness, now that's a good forum