organic vs chemweed

[The Bling]

The bling, now that is the most untrue crap I have heard yet but yes Mc'd's is crap. Not a good analogy.

But yes some variety's are picky.

Who feed's there babies chem. I only feed them after 2-3 weeks right before the transplant when they need it. There's enough nurtients in my sunshine mix to supply them for the first 3 weeks.

yea i tried to write something and started thinking about McMuffins BTW i use AN so im just sayin but OG loved the chems honestlu i know that im not a good enough grower to grow my OG organic and get the same quality

maby i just wish i could grow organic because I've seen organic bud that blew away some chem but that was $7600 a p but this guy moves his flowers for a disgusting $9500 a pound and If i had the money i would pay that.

 

[IwannagethighOG]

$9500 a pound. What!
Just grow your own and never worry again. Oh I see you do. OG kush I see. Nice veriety for sure. You need to do a OG cross and grow out 20-30 and then your set. Who needs dealers, ok only for when you finally run out.

Have you ever smoked haze or a haze hybrid? Youll never forget that taste..

Does OG kush have any NLXHaze in it, I forgot it's lineage off hand. Is chemdog used in it?
Trainwreck has a NLxhaze in it though right and so does cough?

 

[Guest]

pre-99 kali-mist...coinditions and genetics are factors on how the smoke turns out not chem or organic...ask a experienced grower in both hydro and organics which is best...most likely he will say neither...the grower makes the best...bottom line i love organics i love chems...but most of all i love my bud...for the jack ass who thinks hydro chem weed taste nasty...he obviously has never tasted properly grown hydro chem bud...

 

[Guest423]

whats your flushing method? how long do you flush for in hydro? i'm thinking about trying a dwc bucket or rubbermaid.

 

[The Slickster]

Anyone can grow big chem buds especially a chem production company and try to say that chemicals are better than natures wisdom.

It is unfortunate in this day and age what companies will pass of as fertilizers which are chemicals that are high in radiation. The smoke from this bud even if flushed will cause irritation of the vocal cords, throat, and lungs. Unfortunately too much chemical smoke will make for some unhealthy paranoias and obsessions. Medicinally organic is mother natures choice and should be ours too without the arrogance of chemicals.

Using man made chemicals abuses nature and disrespects the unknowing consumer. There are many a large scale selling operations posing buds for sale that are grown with cheap chemicals none of even close resemblance to anything organic or in nature, not even soil. Hydro organic would be great. Ultimately, it would be the best thing to have a diverse medium with high drainability. Then grown with organics, it could be easily irrigated almost hydro, but not.

 

[IwannagethighOG]

Those chems will make you cough and scratch at your throat no matter how long you flush. You think if you stop eating real food and start taking supplements and powdered meals that there will not be a difference. Plant, animal, or human, natural is what makes organic organic. Now, nobody trust the chemical salesman poser:

Totally BS! Cannabis will not make you cough more because it was grown with Chems. Maybe if the bud was picked off the plant and quick dried right after it had been fertilzed it would. Or if the grower dumped chems in it the week of harvest. Plants and humans totaly different. Plants only require photosynthesis and water.

salesman poser: Are you talking about Unicorn, because by the looks of his plants he's got me sold.

Suprisingly my sense of humor is stll intact. Especially after all the fucken head shots I've taken over the years. Damn green stars.

 

[Guest]

2 weeks of flush first week drop down to 500 ppm...second week just water...you mite want to use a ice-chest the work better and have a drain already
you cant taste chems as the plants dont eat chems well the do elemental chems...they eat the same thing organic plants eat...an inorganic chemical called nitrogen and others
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen

whats your flushing method? how long do you flush for in hydro? i'm thinking about trying a dwc bucket or rubbermaid.

 

[Deft]

I dont think anything grown with some artificial (chem) boosters, but I would never grow with out more chemicaly diverse organic stuff in there as a base like good compost. Neither are evil, but chem should be used in moderation and just to ammend organics.

 

[NuggyBuds]

The plant cannot know the difference between chems and organics. Nitrogen is Nitrogen, organic or man made it's still Nitrogen. I cannot comment on taste, because I've allways grown organic, but the street weed I buy does sometimes have a chemy taste, probably due to it being "unflushed". I've found however that molassas has improved taste, and organics is the only way molassas can be properly used.

Here are my reasons for organics over chems (for what it's worth)

1. Slow release, this lowers the risk of burning your babies.

2. Cheap, I use urine, molassas ,and kelp tea's for veg, pumpkin seed puree tea for flower. total ferts cost me maybe 10-20 bucks a year....

3. I can re-use my soil, and re-juvinate it with compost. Chems will strip your soil in 1 grow...

4. There is a certian intrinsic value to organic growing that I find that I am in a symbyotic relationship with the plant. I guess this comes from haveing to do some work to produce my ferts. (composting, making tea's, hunting nettles in the forest). Chems just seem like cheating. Just my opinion, don't bite my head off.

5. There is some evidence for organic fruits tasting better.

When asked why they purchase organic food, most consumers will state that it tastes better. Recent studies are showing that organically produced crops contain approximately 30% more antioxidant and/or phenolic content than similar crops produced using chemicals and pesticides. Levels of specific vitamins, antioxidants or flavonoids in organic produce have been found to be two or three times the level found in conventional produce. The higher levels are due to the fact that the organically produced plants are in an environment which allows their natural defense mechanisms to be triggered by weeds or insects. These “stress events” caused by the insects and weeds trigger the plants to respond with flavonoids, volatile compounds, phenolics and other antioxidants. These aromatic compounds found in the organic food are then perceived as flavor when we eat them which is why we say they taste better.

http://www.best-organic-fertilizer.com/organic-fertilizer-vs-chemical-fertilizer.html

however the argument above does not seem to corilate to indoor growing, but Outdoor organics might have an argument for better tasting weed.

When it comes to food production I'm 100% against chems I think all food should be grown organically.

Study confirms value of organic farming

Writing in the March 6 online edition of PNAS, Stanford University graduate student Sasha B. Kramer and her colleagues found that fertilizing apple trees with synthetic chemicals produced more adverse environmental effects than feeding them with organic manure or alfalfa.

"The intensification of agricultural production over the past 60 years and the subsequent increase in global nitrogen inputs have resulted in substantial nitrogen pollution and ecological damage," Kramer and her colleagues write. "The primary source of nitrogen pollution comes from nitrogen-based agricultural fertilizers, whose use is forecasted to double or almost triple by 2050."

Nitrogen compounds from fertilizer can enter the atmosphere and contribute to global warming, adds Harold A. Mooney, the Paul S. Achilles Professor of Environmental Biology at Stanford and co-author of the study.

"Nitrogen compounds also enter our watersheds and have effects quite distant from the fields in which they are applied, as for example in contaminating water tables and causing biological dead zones at the mouths of major rivers," he says. "This study shows that the use of organic versus chemical fertilizers can play a role in reducing these adverse effects."

 

[IwannagethighOG]

I could'nt agree more with you Nuggy. I've never burnt my crop with fert since the beggining when learning. It is easier to burn though if your not experiienced.
Sounds like you got a nice organic stew going there.
I never reuse soil. 20 bucks for a bail of sunshine mix is a little costly though.
Symbiotic yes, there's up to a billion orginisms in a teaspoon of soil. Using chems once a week wont harm them. Chem's is not cheating. I've notice the plants really take to the stuff after feeding em it. They start to glow even.

Organics all the way outdoors. It's all we use in our garden outside. Mulch and compost.
Yes all food should be organic.

 

[Suby]

Great post Nuggy.

I have a local organic farmer that sells only organic produce, I'v seen old ladies fight for the last basket of strawberries, the owner and a friend of mine says cooks from the city come on Sundays to pickup produce because they say it has more flavour and a much better Brix content than "ordinary" commercial produce.

As to the damage chem ferts do to soil organisms, certain ones are completely benign and others will wipe the entire microherd in one feeding, a full strength flowering fertilizer with bloom booster will wipe ou the whole herd, the salts these fetilizers leave as buildup in the soil are toxic to soil bacteria, that's why ferts like PBPro are very sparing in their use of mineral additives, so they can capitalize on microbiotic action.

Suby

 

[Guest423]

2 weeks of flush first week drop down to 500 ppm...second week just water...you mite want to use a ice-chest the work better and have a drain already
you cant taste chems as the plants dont eat chems well the do elemental chems...they eat the same thing organic plants eat...an inorganic chemical called nitrogen and others
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen

so you only use plain water for a week? i was thinking 2-3 weeks.

the main reason i want to try dwc is to see if i get some faster veg out of some slow ass vegging plants....i'll always still run my soil, but nothing wrong with running both....atleast i could compare both styles for myself and form my own opinion....thats what you have to do these days because there's always 10 different stories from both sides of everything.

 

[NuggyBuds]

IUsing chems once a week wont harm them. Chem's is not cheating. I've notice the plants really take to the stuff after feeding em it. They start to glow even.

Well I'm assuming you use an organic mix and fert with chems? or you just supplement occasionally?
Either way you are doing some harm to the mycorrhizal fungi. especially using chem bloom ferts or anything with dissolved rock phosphate, most man made ferts use acids to liquefy rock phosphates. This can inhibit the symbiosis between the fungus and the plant by preventing appressorial formation on the fungus.

but if it works for you then don't let me stop you

thanks for the kind comments, peace.

Edit,

thanks Suby,
I agree about the salt buildup, Flush your soil people!

 

[IwannagethighOG]

Thats why I'm hear, enlighten me. Yes I seem have this method down. I use an organic soil mix and supplement with chemical fertilizer. It's easy,cheap, and works well.

What would be a good organic fertilizer to buy. PB pro and earth juice I've heard of. How long does a gallon of that stuff last?

 

[Suby]

Well if your using an organic base mix then you need an organic or organic compatible fetilizer because using GH with an ammended soil mix is a waste of money, full synthetics require no ammendments just the usual 30% perlite because the soil mix becomes a neutral substrate like RW or plain vermiculite and perlite (or sort of due to peats acidity).
An organic fert would be Metanaturals and AgeOld organics, an organic BASED fert would be FoxFarm and PBPro these last are part organic and part chem but work in conjuction with an organic based ammended soil grow.
Stay as far as possible away from Earth Juice, they give growing organic a bad rep seing as their products whack ph, are expensive, you need like 5 bottles, and it turns bad after a short while, I could go on and on about how they suck....
If your not a hardcore organic grower like some of us use the PBPro veg and Bloom for soil formula, even newbs grow off the hook weed with these 2 bottles only.
Just remember to flush for at least 10 days with plain water even if the product is semi -organic.

Suby

 

[Suby]

the main reason i want to try dwc is to see if i get some faster veg out of some slow ass vegging plants

There is a way I have come to grow when I need to veg a plant quickly and have it take off fast.
This is organic soil mind you but when you need a haelthy mom quickfast it's done well for me.
I use alot more perlite(50%)
some vermiculite(10%)
alot of worm castings (20%+)
and the rest is ProMix HP

I find that a more porous mix speeds up root production and shortens the wet/dry cycles in the plants waterings which leads to faster growth rates
This mix gets alot less nutrients into the plant because most of the substrate is inert so it's mediocre for flowering but for veg it really speeds them up.

As far as ferts, go easy on the kelp as it can lead to stretch which reduces branching and thus cutting sites.
I also find foliars of humic or fulvic acid really speeds up the growth also.


S

 

[NuggyBuds]

How long does a gallon of that stuff last?

This depends upon alot of things;
If you use package strength or 1/2 or 1/4.
Size, age, and number of plants.
How wastefull you are. (ie mixing more than you need)
The strain of the plant, some are nutrient pigs, others not so much.

You'll have to dial it in yourself.
I've not used package organics in some time so I couldn't even ballpark it.

 

[IwannagethighOG]

Thx subby and nuggy. Awesome info!

I'm gonna have get some of that PB pro. I've been using Jacks Classic bloom and MG 20-20-20 veg. I'm useing sunshine mix #4 which is great soil but that promix is good too. Next time I'll be sure to pick up a bag of worm castings to mix with it.

Man, growing sure ain't easy. It takes alot of work and knowledge thats forsure.

 

[Guest423]

There is a way I have come to grow when I need to veg a plant quickly and have it take off fast.
This is organic soil mind you but when you need a haelthy mom quickfast it's done well for me.
I use alot more perlite(50%)
some vermiculite(10%)
alot of worm castings (20%+)
and the rest is ProMix HP

I find that a more porous mix speeds up root production and shortens the wet/dry cycles in the plants waterings which leads to faster growth rates
This mix gets alot less nutrients into the plant because most of the substrate is inert so it's mediocre for flowering but for veg it really speeds them up.

As far as ferts, go easy on the kelp as it can lead to stretch which reduces branching and thus cutting sites.
I also find foliars of humic or fulvic acid really speeds up the growth also.


S

yeah we are basically on the same track....my go to soil mix is 1/3 perlite, 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 earthworm castings....gives me really nice and easy root growth in that mix. little less porous then the mix u mentioned but i use this mix from beginning to end....i also mix in some guano.

i foliar feed with soluable seaweed, i'm actually trying to encourage stretch....is there research on kelp/seaweed encouraging stretch or just from what you've noticed?

i always have humic and or fulvic acid in my mix...i love it and always recommend it.

but this kinda makes me excited because this plant i have is in a cup and hasn't got my foliar feeding or my soil mix yet with the humic acid. i never really noticed if these things help or not because i've always used them since i started growing.

 

[Suby]

Growing is like anything else, it seems like a daunting task at first them by the time you get the hang of it your doing it with your eyes closed.
If you can bake a cake then you can grow organic, it's all about having a simple recipe, check out the OFC thread for a shitload of good recipies.

To answer your question a 1 gallon of PBPro soil bloom will get you through a few small grows, not hydro but soil.
A typical feed rate is 3-4 times feeding during flowering at 15-25ml of nutes per gallon, I figure on 1 gallon of nute solution per 5gallon soil plant.
I also used the LiquidKarma with my feeding when I use the PBP.