Organic Fanatics - Australia

[wilbur]

thanks Silver. get the rain dance going? bloody frustrating!

I tried holding my first seedlings back but you know what weeds are like, so threw them away and was lucky enuf to start another batch before the weather got too hot. now this second lot are outgrowing their nursery pots and I HAVE do something within a week or no sativa this year ... or at least no new seed germination til the weather cools down (I need an airconditioned germinating room up here).

anyway waffle, waffle, cheers!

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Not got a bloody clue where you are mate Somewhere its not raining but! Sure theres plenty of those around eastern Aus...

Wow so its too hot where you at... maybe dig into a hillside or try to find somwhere you can funnel a slight breeze into dappled shade... just an idea.

Its real hot here today... 27C. Which is way too hot for me, especially in the blazing sun. That would pass as a cool day for you probs

Didnt catch the salmon luvaduck. They were from a mate.

 

[wilbur]

thanks for the suggestions Silver. no, it gets too hot for that! but I have some seeds lurking under loose hay in my garden and if the weather goes cool, which it does when a rain comes thru, there's a good chance of natural germination then. cheers!

 

[wilbur]

KARKED IT!

KARKED IT!

I wonder if you could help me work out what has caused my plant to die? I haven't put up a pic because everyone knows what a plant looks like that's almost dead from lack of water. Except this plant was regularly watered and drainage was fine. Right to the end its all-over colour was typical well fed cannabis green.

50 litre pot. Sieved turkeys nest compost corrected up one point with dolomite to 6.5, amended with charlie carp at the recommended rate once a fortnight. NOTHING ELSE!

The compost was part of a large batch. Dolomite was thoroughly mixed in using a cement mixer. Each batch out of the mixer was placed in a pile, one load on top of the other to make a large volcano shape and pots were randomly filled by shovel from the 'volcano'. I am quite confident the compost was a homogeneous mix. Besides which only a small amount of dolomite was added to natural ingredients, so it seems to me that pH problems can be taken out of the equation.

The plant grew to 4 foot (1200mm), looked normal except the bottom leaves were always droopy. Over time the droopiness extended upward to the whole plant and now it's karked.

Weather wise it's been mostly HOT and dry. Now we've had six inches in a week.

So I 'm wondering if ... because the problem began with the lower leaves which are on the first branches to grow … whether I 've imported a problem into my big pot from the nursery pot the plant was transferred into after germination? And the sudden onset of extra moist weather has been more than the already sick plant could bear?

How sound is my reasoning here, Guys? All polite comments welcome!

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

That sucks. Sounds like you underestimated the water holding capacity... i still find that the easiest way to kill a plant. Lack of water they bounce right back.

Either that or you medium became too dry and the moisture was just running through.

Both symptoms look the same which makes it hard.

 

[bonsai]

My gut response is rotted roots from water... what kinda plant?

 

[luvaduck]

Mate, sounds like a problem we get in the tropics with hot and variable weather. Do the plants wilt suddenly, like over one or two days (maybe longer down south)? Is it all the plants or just one amongst others? Have you tried a neem drench for the roots? With a well drained soil it is hard to over water in a pot. I only grow in pots in the wet season with up to 100mm and over per day, and have never seen roots rotted from water, rather lack of aeration in soil. Have you checked the roots? Nice and white? I have a gut feeling that this is where the problem lies. Chuck some shots up?

 

[wilbur]

bag seed, Bonsai. have indica looking leaves, very different from the 'claws' on my sativa and different growth ... much bushier.

Luvaduck ... one plant only. that's why I was going on about the well mixed nature of the soil ... my other pot got same soil and all is ok.

No, wasn't quick. like I said showed on bottom leaves for a long while ... as if the plant wasn't getting quite enuf water. but it was! and there are no problems as Silver raised about the texture or free draining of the soil. it is as light and fluffy and well drained as any I 've ever seen.

the water holding capacity of the soil is 40% by weight. (hey. that's good for a naturally occurring soil isn't it?)

Luvaduck ... the plant's a goner. I have another to put in its place but as you suggest I need to pull the plant and have a look at the roots. no use using the soil again if it's fungus-y. haven't had time to do that yet.

thanks all. I 'll tell you what I found when I pull it tomorrow.

PS: perhaps it's the time of the season but I 'm a bit paranoid about putting up pics ... or even talking about more than one plant.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Yeah have a good dig it should tell you everything you need to know... maybe

If there are fungal problems maybe think about planting some chamomile as a companion.

 

[wilbur]

pictures

pictures

OK Guys … so I 've got to the root, sorry, stem of the problem.


Looks like fungal growth to me. A patch of green on the stem has been eaten away. In pic one (didn't attach here see next post) see the white stuff with little balls on the end? Betcha those little balls eventually pop out spores. The fungus is being tended by the smallest ants I 've ever seen.


Also see the little brown balls of … what? ... stuck to the stem? These are also scattered here and there among the roots.


There is a clump of jelly-like stuff near the stem damage too. It looks like wet water-crystals but I haven't used any of those.


Pic two shows white balls on left hand roots. The start of a new colony I reckon.


So this disease would fall under the general term of 'collar rot', woudn't ya say?


Bonsai, what would you say the chances of this fungus (if you agree it's a fungus) being a left-over from the fungus-dominated decomposition within a turkeys nest? Bearing in mind this isn't happening in my other pot.


Other factors:
First, I mulched with wheaten chaff which I have since removed from my other pot seeing as the chaff stays wet for so long and it's pieces lie together very tightly making a dense, perhaps even air-tight, layer. This may have made the situation worse but is not the cause because the plant was sick before I put on this mulch.
Second, my seedling mix may have had something bad in it and when I transplanted I 've imported this bad stuff into my big pot. This is my best guess.


Luvaduck, haven't got any neem oil until I go to yandina this week. Would you know if I can use lavender oil in the same way?


Risky I know, but I 've planted a sativa in the pot and we'll see what happens to that.


Cheers all!

 

[wilbur]

pics again

pics again

mandatory text View attachment 144376

View attachment 144377

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

The fungus is being tended by ants... wow that sucks!

I have had a plant die from infected stem which rotted out. But only the once. Guess the heat must make plants more susceptible maybe.

Lavender oil is great stuff its worth a try if you have some. Clove oil is great for any fungus growth and as a cleaner in general. A few drops of clove and lavender essential oil in a half litre spray bottle of water works wonders...

But yeah go the neem the plants root system will be cleaned up for sure and its a nice little nitrogen hit. Pine essential oil is also gaining a reputation in farming as an all round plant tonic, root tonic and fertiliser.

Pine Oil Revisited
By Cindy Rea

Back in the January/February 2003 issue of Maximum Yield I wrote an article titled “Pine-ing for Organics.” The article explored some of the benefits of using pine oil extracts for various applications in hydroponic and conventional gardening practices.



With today’s heightened environmental awareness and the exponentially growing demand for organic produce, farmers have been forced to look for economical, earth-friendly products to aid in the production of viable crops. Many have turned to pine oil- based fertilizers for a solution.

Since its introduction into the horticultural market, growers using pine oil-based fertilizer products have witnessed increased yields with less crop damage due to contamination from toxicities or pest infestations. This “across the board” success has been observed by professional glasshouse growers, field crop farmers, turf farmers, and hobby gardeners using various cultivation techniques. Soil and hydroponically grown produce have shown improved crop health and earlier harvests.

Pine oil is an organically extracted botanical stimulant that is used in fertilizers for its nutritional and protective properties. Pine oil is extremely effective for horticultural applications because it possesses a high nitrogen level while being a major pest deterrent. This 100 per cent water-soluble extract integrates easily into existing fertilizer programs, whether they are mineral-based or completely organic.

Pine oil has been used for many years in household and commercial cleaning products. It contains powerful disinfecting properties while being non-toxic and ecologically safe. The pleasant smell actually helps to eliminate, not just mask, other lingering odours.

The diversity and purity of pine oil-based liquid organic fertilizers has come to the attention of the greenhouse industry, with particular interest being given to hydroponic applications. Its benefits make it a valuable contribution to hydro-organic horticulture. It can be used as a foliar spray without fear of overspray toxicity. It is totally safe, biodegradable, and environmentally friendly. The natural organic components that make up the pine oil-based fertilizers allow plants to rapidly absorb and utilize the available nutrients and micronutrients, resulting in increased growth and shortened growth cycle.

Though the pine oil fertilizer has a very distinct pine odour, tests have shown that there is no discernable trace of odour or flavour when it is used right up until harvest. The fact that it won’t promote algae is a bonus to the hydroponic grower.

In any grow room the best way to control the spread of disease is through cleanliness. Sterilizing tools and equipment between crops will help reduce the risk. Removing old, dying, or decaying vegetation from the room is crucial. Pine oil’s disinfectant quality ensures that tubes, pumps, and trays are kept clean and free from unwanted contaminants.

Tests conducted in China in 2001 on one particular fertilizer whose primary active ingredient is pine oil found that strawberry plants treated with this product were one to two centimetres (0.4 to 0.8 in.) taller, had more leaves, and produced better fruit compared with plants grown under conventional cultural practice. Of particular interest was that plants suffered less fruit rot, including anthraconose rot and gray mould caused by Botrytis cinerea when treated with this product — common problems encountered in a high-humidity grow room or greenhouse.

Drs. Ting Zhou, Chris Youn, and Rong Cao, researchers with Agriculture Canada and Agri-Food Canada, Food Research Program in Guelph, Ont., did extensive field trials on strawberries, western pumpkin, tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, and corn using the liquid organic pine oil fertilizer, and compared the results to a standard plot. The results varied from a 28.3 per cent increase in yield for the western pumpkin to a 0.4 per cent increase in cucumber, with regular use.

One of the major attributes of pine oil is its protective qualities. When used as part of a regular feeding regime, the pine oil fertilizer enters the root system, promoting strong healthy root growth. Healthy roots mean healthy plants! Strong, healthy plants are far less susceptible to attacks by predators and fungal disease, they are better able to withstand temperature fluctuations, and they are generally more tolerant of any adverse conditions.

Significant results have been witnessed using the liquid organic pine oil fertilizer in eradicating many common greenhouse infestations: red mites, aphids, whiteflies, fungus gnats and shore flies, thrips, and botrytis. The need for sulphur may be eliminated because the pine oil has been shown to totally suppress diseases such as powdery mildew, downy mildew, alternaria, pythium, rust, and other foliar diseases.

Research scientist Raj Utkhede of Agriculture & Agri-Food Canada confirmed liquid organic pine oil fertilizer “inhibited the growth of all 4 pathogenic fungi (Botrytis cinerea, Pythium aphenidermatum, Fusarium oxysporum, Didymella bryoniae) that caused the diseases on cucumbers and tomatoes in laboratory experiments. It also showed promise in controlling Botrytis stem canker of mature cucumber plants under greenhouse conditions.”

In hydroponics the pine oil organic liquid fertilizer can be used as an additive to help boost nitrogen during the vegetative period while providing ongoing protective maintenance. This is especially beneficial when used in the treatment of mother plants. The protection acquired by the mother will be transferred to new cuttings, ensuring them a healthy, viable start. This is of major importance because systemic root diseases will be passed from the mother to her cuttings.

Nitrogen is not normally recommended during the flowering cycle; however, the protective benefits provided by pine oil may outweigh any adverse effects. Controlling moulds, mildews, pathogens, and pests right through to harvest is a challenge to many growers.

Studies are ongoing at Guelph University and Ohio State University on producing consumer-safe crops and post-harvest crop protection. Pine oil was proven to be an environmentally friendly, non-toxic plant defender, growth stimulator, and liquid organic fertilizer that will have a positive impact on agriculture.

Since its introduction into the horticulture market, pine oil has received very positive consumer feedback for foliar and fertilizer applications. It has also been used successfully as a growing medium conditioner. Researchers are eagerly testing new cultivation possibilities for pine oil; the potential is limitless.

 

[drobdude]

are they white ants? if it looks like theres a patch thats been eaten away, they may be to blame. white ants eat the outside layer around the stem where water is transported....the plant still stands upright but usually wilts and dies. i have heard that where plants are involved ants usually cultivate fungus in some kinda 3 way symbiotic relationship....strange indeed.

 

[wilbur]

thanks Silver for 'pine oil'. seems like very useful stuff.

No, drobdude, not white ants. we get THOSE little buggers here by the million and I 've been sus to them for years. in fact, ever since some young plants fell over one day many years ago and when I looked the roots and inground stem had been eaten away until the stem looked like a sharpened pencil! now my pots always have a strong plastic membrane beneath them to make a termite barrier.

and yes, ants cultivating fungus IS strange indeed. but that's Nature is it not? the harder one looks the more one finds

 

[NiceAussie]

This is my friends grow. It is Super Lemon Haze from a fem seed, in a pot with 30L of premium potting mix. The first two pictures where taken at 6 weeks old on Thursday (from popping her head out of the soil) the 3rd pic was taken on Sunday. It got staked cause it was getting windy.
Week 4 it got fed with Charlie carp and also on week 6. On Sunday my friend put some organic dynamic lifter and yates blood and bone on top of the soil.
He is thinking of topping it in the next day or two to controll the height. And maybe using the cutting in some cloning gel and seed propagation soil to put the cutting to use.

Any thoughts and opinion on his grow? He is an amature.

Cheers and thanks guys!

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Looks great, the medium may be a touch on the alkaline side though judging from the slight leaf curl and pale yellow growth... i should know. I over limed my girls this last run and they looked just like that.

I recommend a foliar with epsom salts @1/2 tsp per litre. Give em a good soaking and let the runoff soak your soil too. That and maybe a couple feeds with 1 tsp per litre of organic cider vinegar. This should bring the medium back on the acidic side which marijauna prefers.

Clones are always better taken from the bottom of a plant where the rooting hormones will be at their greatest. Its also much better taken from a slightly N hungry plant... yours looks fine. Stop the nitrogen and give her a feed of flowering ferts with phosphorous for root growth. Then take the cuttings.

Love the sound of this strain. Yet ti grow out a lemony plant... had a few real grapefruity and pineapple ones.

Topping works but i prefer to just squash the stem between thumb and forefinger at first or second node and bend the stem right over at 90 degrees. This way you dont lose any growth hormones... But for a long flowering sativa it might not make too much difference.

 

[wilbur]

Nice lookin' plant NiceAussie!

well, Silver ... you've blitzed me in the knowledge department! But I do agree not to 'top' the plant. sativa grows fine when it's bent down. have grown a few 6 - 8 footers and hid them in 2 foot high bracken fern by bending them over and tying them down. the whole plant gets lots of sun this way.

cheers all!

 

[NiceAussie]

Thanks for the advice guys!
Is there a simple no fuss way to bring the medium back on the acidic side? Maybe a product one can get from bunnings?

Ok so due to your advice the plant will not get topped. (although, thought topping gave more, but smaller heads = more bud in the end?) it will start to get traind to grow long ways in the next few weeks rather then up. One may be afraid to bend the stem at 90 degrees in case the plant brakes. Some bending will happen, but a little afraid to go so extream.

Between Christmas and new years there will be an atempt to take a good sized clone (from the bottom of the plant) It may not get much veg time before starting to bud, but it will just be a little experiment.

Cheers and Thanks for the advice!

Will keep you updated with info and pics of this little organic grow.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Dont be afraid the plants stems are mega strong! Just make sure its crushed. This is the hemp plant! Feel up the stem until its more on the hollow side to be 100% safe but 2nd or 3rd node no worries.

The cider vinegar willl drop the ph and feed the plant micronutrients... much more gentle than anything you will buy from Bunnings...

 

[NiceAussie]

Thanks SilverSurfer.
Going to Woolies now and will look for some Cider Vingar.
It will get a feed of it mixed with water tonight. How many nights in a row should this be done? Untill the plant goes a Darker green? Or untill the leafs have no yellow spots?