Opinions on veganics?

[Granger2]

My point on this is that you can choose a veganic line of nutes for your grow without making a total life commitment to veganics and veganism. It is silly for others to go off on it, using words like "hypocrisy" and such. Live and let live.

Maiden,
I guess using your own urine would not be veganic, but no harm done. Your choice. If someone wants to use veganic nutes cuz it works for them and chow down a turkey dinner, fine with me. -granger

 

[supermanlives]

i like extra animal remains in my soil. veganix blah.

 

[BlueJayWay]

I had subscribed to "veganic" gardening for a bit and learned a lot about feeding plants with plants - also learned how to garden with 10 different veganic bottles lol .

I think it's a great concept and encourages people to garden / live their lives with less inputs from the slaughter of animals and the byproducts of that industry, with the way it's done today (tyson farms et. al) I think that is a GREAT start for many to get away from that and kudos to those that do! It's why I wanted to grow completely plant based - it felt in tune with the way I strived to live in respect to all aspects of my life.

The issue I find are those that market/profit from "veganics" and exclaim how much smoother, safer, better, stronger, the herb is while turning their heads and disregarding the fact, or making an exception of the fact that the bagged potting soil mixes they use and thatmost people use include guanos and of course the silly argument that earth worm castings is veganic (because worms are not mammals, and castings aren't really poop). Not to mention, those buying store bought bagged worm castings - the vast majority of those companies use animal manures to feed their worms, make sure to research the castings before assuming they were fed green waste/manure.

If you're going to grow "veganic," make your own soil mix or make sure the products you're buying don't have guanos etc, otherwise you are just kidding yourself. And then smoke a fatty and think about worms and bacteria and fungi and nematodes and protozoa and bazillions of insects, and bird shit falling from the sky think about it for a minute or 30...

Switching to botanical teas instead of bottled nutes, beefing up the soil with minerals and including a small amount of nonplant based amendments makes me feel just as in tune with a natural way of gardening - moreso than trying to exclude a huge portion of what makes up the earths topsoil - thinking in terms of millions of years of decaying insects & poops etc etc.

Again, just my 2 cents & some clarification - not critizing how anyone chooses to garden.

 

[unclefishstick]

i use bacon bits instead of perlite myself! and top dress with sliced pepperoni

 

[BlueJayWay]

Oh yeah, sorry Maiden - you're an animal right? Pee on your garden all you want, but ya can't call it vegan I do, and I don't LOL

 

[supermanlives]

i make my worms work extra hard . if they slow down i grab one and strangle it a bit and toss it back in . that makes em work faster. get eating bitches lol

 

[OhighO]

I need to learn to make up words....seems to be money in word making...



dank.Frank

Just gotta say I love this comment

 

[Microbeman]

let me just say i greatly respect your deep knowledge on these topics and in no way intended to come off as antagonistic,and hope DF has great success with his mix.

i deal with quite a few older med card folks who are doing this for the first time in their lives,many with zero experience with any type of growing so veganics is an excellent fit for many of these folks as it eliminates a great deal of the learning curve and gets them to good quality meds and successful gardens easily.

I did not find your comments antagonistic in the slightest. I only respond to comments with information I believe is germane.

I can see your point. I'd love to see growers keeping their soil living; like my pet soil.

 

[dank.frank]

well,the TLO people are just as full of crap to be honest,you cant replicate nature indoors,you can only mimic it,any actual soil scientist will tell you you cant blend a bunch of stuff together and call it soil,no matter how many compost teas you put on it,its still just a extra rich medium...

Ooooooooooooooooookay!

We plant IN SOIL....lol....which we then amend with things that benefit the beneficials...in accordance with science.

And yes, we don't deny or pretend that microbial excretions don't exist - we don't deny the extreme benefits of well composted manures - and we don't make up new words to market already existing practices... Soooooo full of it.



But the counter argument "so what" was very persuasive. The points I made to very clearly explain EXACTLY why the construct of "veganics" IN SOIL (as that is what this sub-forum is about) is just entirely implausible...

Your a riot, Unc. Thanks bro...I needed a laugh!



But this thread wasn't about one vs. the other .....sorry to get off topic. My opinion has been stated - as THAT is what the OP asked for, opinions - Think I'll just hush now.



dank.Frank

 

[jay-toker]

.

 

[CT Guy]

i understand your point,but working in a grow shop i can tell you that 90% of the consumers lack the knowledge to appreciate the difference,make that more like 95% of them,most of the people want easy in a bottle,and veganics is easy in a bottle...

If a hydro shop really wanted to be helpful and simple, they could offer a water-only soil mix that solves 99% of these problems. Issue with that is that they wouldn't make any $ on all these bottled nutrients because you would no longer need them. Hydro shops could promote sustainability and the re-use of soil, but it wouldn't make them money. I believe that's why the industry is the way it is. That and the fact that they're typically staffed with growers with no hort background who happen to have grown some plants indoors and think they actually know something.

My 2 cents,
CT

PS: You can create a pretty damn good living soil indoors.
PPS: veganics is just another stupid buzz word that was created for marketing in my opinion. I choose to use a little bit of fish but I could easily remove it and still get good results.

 

[Scrappy4]

If a hydro shop really wanted to be helpful and simple, they could offer a water-only soil mix that solves 99% of these problems. Issue with that is that they wouldn't make any $ on all these bottled nutrients because you would no longer need them. Hydro shops could promote sustainability and the re-use of soil, but it wouldn't make them money. I believe that's why the industry is the way it is. That and the fact that they're typically staffed with growers with no hort background who happen to have grown some plants indoors and think they actually know something.

My 2 cents,
CT

PS: You can create a pretty damn good living soil indoors.
PPS: veganics is just another stupid buzz word that was created for marketing in my opinion. I choose to use a little bit of fish but I could easily remove it and still get good results.

I completely agree CT Guy, great post. I do use plant materials as fertilizers but I call that organic growing. Veganics is about selling not growing. It does fit in with other hydro store labeling though, both sensational and misleading.....scrappy

 

[dank.frank]

When hydro stores carried my just add water mix, NSPB: FLF, they got threatened buy their suppliers, ie hydrofarm, sunlight supply, etc...that ALL thier products would be pulled from the shelves... not just nutrients mind you, effectively shutting down many shops. Needless to say - full retail was short lived!

Truth is feared by the corporate profit mongruls...heaven forbid something be practical. No, you need labels that mask a products identity - you need 7 different bottles - you need NOT know whats ACTUALLUY in them....

oh...my bad...I was supposed to be in time out!!



dank.Frank

 

[MrSterling]

I'm not buying anyone's line of anything fertilizer, unless it's something like fish emulsion. I find my manures and animal wastes too dear to give up. I'm sure using only plant materials works fine, many paths to the same goal yaddayadda, but for me, no reason to give up my shit. Also is this "Veganics" thing is tied to some product line? It feels like it.

 

[jay-toker]

.

 

[Dkgrower]

Its all good, I go to vegan dinner where alot off pepol make and eat some very nice food.

Some off them dont eat carrot, because it sets its seeds the second year off growing and we harvest it the first year, they almost got into a fight when making the dinner, if to add or not, i was on the floor rolling around

Frank maby u could do some word magic on some veganic Raw food fertilizer and make a fortune.

 

[MrSterling]

Not eating carrots because they're biennial is insane and makes no sense. We propagate the varieties, we're not denying some living creature it's right to breed by eating it. I get the moral ground Veganism walks, but a lot of them are idiots. I've noticed some of the more extreme nuts aren't even animal lovers. I know a couple extreme no-anything Vegans, but it stems from them disliking animals and animals disliking them.

SM, you can't exploit yourself for urine I'd argue, since you produce it anyway. So why not use it? I'm sure there's some argument from someone against it.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Jay-toker, et alia, I am a frequent and happy user of my own urine. I go with a dilution ratio of 1:10 water:urine. It provides everything and outperforms all other chemical salt-based nutrients tested, the research is there.

If a hydro shop really wanted to be helpful and simple, they could offer a water-only soil mix that solves 99% of these problems. Issue with that is that they wouldn't make any $ on all these bottled nutrients because you would no longer need them. Hydro shops could promote sustainability and the re-use of soil, but it wouldn't make them money. I believe that's why the industry is the way it is. That and the fact that they're typically staffed with growers with no hort background who happen to have grown some plants indoors and think they actually know something.

My 2 cents,
CT

PS: You can create a pretty damn good living soil indoors.
PPS: veganics is just another stupid buzz word that was created for marketing in my opinion. I choose to use a little bit of fish but I could easily remove it and still get good results.

In that light, hydroponic shops appear to be no different from any other garden center or similar.

I think the point that unclefishstick was making that seems to be being missed here is that, at least with older folks who aren't familiar and just want to grow decent meds, convenience is key.

 

[unclefishstick]

Jay-toker, et alia, I am a frequent and happy user of my own urine. I go with a dilution ratio of 1:10 water:urine. It provides everything and outperforms all other chemical salt-based nutrients tested, the research is there.


In that light, hydroponic shops appear to be no different from any other garden center or similar.

I think the point that unclefishstick was making that seems to be being missed here is that, at least with older folks who aren't familiar and just want to grow decent meds, convenience is key.

or anyone who doesnt want to keep 10 garbage cans full of composting medium around or try and source 100 different things in the middle of the desert or has a aversion to using bone or blood meals or doesnt think its a sound practice to dig up guano and ship it halfway around the world....no method is perfect

 

[unclefishstick]

Unfortunately the capitalist system will always provide this society the easy way and they will continue to stagnate, not learning.

apparently they dont even teach people to look both ways before stepping into traffic anymore....

I need to learn to make up words....seems to be money in word making...



dank.Frank

do you know what the difference between chicken cordon bleu and chicken stuffed with ham and swiss is? nothing....but one sounds much fancier doesnt it?...