Mine too...it feeds microbes which feed plants. The only things I need in a bottle are molasses, fish hydrolysate and single malt scotch.
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Opinions on veganics?
- Thread starter jay-toker
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Mine too...it feeds microbes which feed plants. The only things I need in a bottle are molasses, fish hydrolysate and single malt scotch.
im gettin there...for right now with a full time job (taking care of hundreds of plants) what i really want is simple in my home garden,these nutes are simple....and they do work,perhaps not as well or as wholesomely if thats an adjective that can be applied here as a true living soil,but they do work....
The point again is not that they don't work...the point is to educate the consumer in regards to what these products labeled as "veganic" trluy are - ie fermented plant extracts.
And again, FPE(s) have always worked.
The advertising/marketing construct behind the veganics momentum is disingenuous and leads to false/unaccurate information being perpetuated. I only state this not to introduce a bais (as I've not discussed how I personally grow) but rather to speak to the actualality of what these products are. Learning about FPE may very well give you better information than what is on the back of the bottle and allow you to utilize said products with even greater results...
My goal is not to change how you grow...but rather help you to understand what you are actually growing with...
*you* being generic to any reader, not one particular individual.
dank.Frank
And again, FPE(s) have always worked.
The advertising/marketing construct behind the veganics momentum is disingenuous and leads to false/unaccurate information being perpetuated. I only state this not to introduce a bais (as I've not discussed how I personally grow) but rather to speak to the actualality of what these products are. Learning about FPE may very well give you better information than what is on the back of the bottle and allow you to utilize said products with even greater results...
My goal is not to change how you grow...but rather help you to understand what you are actually growing with...
*you* being generic to any reader, not one particular individual.
dank.Frank
i understand your point,but working in a grow shop i can tell you that 90% of the consumers lack the knowledge to appreciate the difference,make that more like 95% of them,most of the people want easy in a bottle,and veganics is easy in a bottle...
Unfortunately the capitalist system will always provide this society the easy way and they will continue to stagnate, not learning.
I need to learn to make up words....seems to be money in word making...
dank.Frank
dank.Frank
S
schwagg
working in the wrong growshop i guess...
Canna's organic line is vganic. What's the big deal? Just another method that works for a lot of people. No need to get political about it. You can use a vganic line and eat steak every night. Why try to levy some standard of consistency on someone who likes using veganics? Like they're *hypocrites if they use ACT cause if has protozoa, or you can't use EWC. sheesh... -granger
I didn't make those "rules" - the half-wit who created the word did....lol. If you use manures it is not "veganic" by base definition. Thus earthworm castings ie worm poop - no can do. The whole concept is a flawed one. Micro-bacterial excretions - well, .....more poop. You do the math. It's just silly. The whole concept ... You can't redefine soil science to create a methodology and then pick and choose when to apply a rule set. Well, I guess you can, it just makes the methodology falacious....
I didn't make this stuff up...they did! To be TRULY "veganic" as defined by the groups that have defined it, is literally impossible. Sorry.
dank.Frank
I didn't make this stuff up...they did! To be TRULY "veganic" as defined by the groups that have defined it, is literally impossible. Sorry.
dank.Frank
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no,im pretty sure 90% of all growers wouldnt know a soil food web if it smacked them in the face,i dont care where you live...
well,the TLO people are just as full of crap to be honest,you cant replicate nature indoors,you can only mimic it,any actual soil scientist will tell you you cant blend a bunch of stuff together and call it soil,no matter how many compost teas you put on it,its still just a extra rich medium...
and i know perfectly well they're fermented plant extracts,but i can still just say veganics right? i dont ask for a fermented barley beverage when i want a beer...so whats in a word really? i think what the op was actually asking was do they work? (veganic nutes) the answer is yes,they do work,they are easy to use,they do produce a top quality end product.it is simply one method someone without a phd might use,no better or worse than any other method.
S
SeaMaiden
No one has ever answered me as to whether or not using my own urine would disqualify as veganic. Can I exploit myself, especially in that manner?
The more I'm doing, and spending time doing, with regard to stuff like FPEs, the more I can see how and why people are willing to spend money on bottled stuff. Sometimes you've just got to draw the line and be able to set your *own* priorities, which is what this is really about.
I could probably clean my own house, for example, but I truly detest housework. So I try to earn enough so that I can pay someone else to come and clean my house for me. Maybe that's not a good example, but it's the best case of convenience for its own sake that I can think of at the moment.
The more I'm doing, and spending time doing, with regard to stuff like FPEs, the more I can see how and why people are willing to spend money on bottled stuff. Sometimes you've just got to draw the line and be able to set your *own* priorities, which is what this is really about.
I could probably clean my own house, for example, but I truly detest housework. So I try to earn enough so that I can pay someone else to come and clean my house for me. Maybe that's not a good example, but it's the best case of convenience for its own sake that I can think of at the moment.
yes sea.
you can use your own urine an still be vegan.
it wouldn't be exploitation since:
a. no harm is being done, and
b. you are able to give your consent.
long as we're on the topic, vegan girls can too swallow.
don't ask me how i know that.
you can use your own urine an still be vegan.
it wouldn't be exploitation since:
a. no harm is being done, and
b. you are able to give your consent.
long as we're on the topic, vegan girls can too swallow.
don't ask me how i know that.
Well not quite necessarily so with all of the supposed 'organic veganic' bottled nutes. One other time this topic came up [the thread can likely be found] I researched the Canna line and found it actually has some soluble (chemical I believe) component to it. Of course that does not keep it from working, just as chemical fertilizers work just fine. [this was the time I brought Matt Rize partially over from the dark side
]I do not know anything of the line which uncle mentioned.
Which method/nute to use is just an individual decision which one makes based on their own research, desires, intelligence and needs.
e.g. If I were a smoker I would choose to buy or grow tobacco which was grown without chemical fertilizers, especially without phosphorus because research has shown that [from P] polonium 210 and lead (radioactive components) accumulate in the glandular trichomes, which no amount of 'flushing' or curing can dispense. Some research indicates that this is the main cause of lung cancer from smoking. [glandular trichomes....hmmm]
Because so many fertilizer companies have been caught just slipping a few ionic form nutrients into the mix, I would be hesitant to use something that was not extremely carefully vetted. However, that is just me. Others, as mentioned, may care less.
One does not need to recognize the constituents of the soil food web to incorporate the microbial nutrient cycle into their gardening practices. This is all there was prior to the dawn of commercial fertilizers. [organic matter, compost, manure, stinky plant soaky stuff]
When I first started growing indoors eons ago, as a goofy kid, I was so stupid to think I could just dig up some soil from outside and put it in pots. That was before I read any of those books. In retrospect it worked pretty good and in a way I ended up going full circle.
what the hell do you have against bourbon sir? or IPA for that matter?
Here it is;
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4618656&highlight=Canna#post4618656
Bourbon gives me a headache...do you mean India Pale Ale? I do like beer but prefer much heavier beers/ales.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4618656&highlight=Canna#post4618656
Bourbon gives me a headache...do you mean India Pale Ale? I do like beer but prefer much heavier beers/ales.
FunTimesIndeed
Member
IPA is for the kids, bourbon is forever.
sorry, I had to.
sorry, I had to.
S
SeaMaiden
He's a purist, is all.
Well not quite necessarily so with all of the supposed 'organic veganic' bottled nutes. One other time this topic came up [the thread can likely be found] I researched the Canna line and found it actually has some soluble (chemical I believe) component to it. Of course that does not keep it from working, just as chemical fertilizers work just fine. [this was the time I brought Matt Rize partially over from the dark side
I do not know anything of the line which uncle mentioned.
Which method/nute to use is just an individual decision which one makes based on their own research, desires, intelligence and needs.
e.g. If I were a smoker I would choose to buy or grow tobacco which was grown without chemical fertilizers, especially without phosphorus because research has shown that [from P] polonium 210 and lead (radioactive components) accumulate in the glandular trichomes, which no amount of 'flushing' or curing can dispense. Some research indicates that this is the main cause of lung cancer from smoking. [glandular trichomes....hmmm]
Because so many fertilizer companies have been caught just slipping a few ionic form nutrients into the mix, I would be hesitant to use something that was not extremely carefully vetted. However, that is just me. Others, as mentioned, may care less.
One does not need to recognize the constituents of the soil food web to incorporate the microbial nutrient cycle into their gardening practices. This is all there was prior to the dawn of commercial fertilizers. [organic matter, compost, manure, stinky plant soaky stuff]
When I first started growing indoors eons ago, as a goofy kid, I was so stupid to think I could just dig up some soil from outside and put it in pots. That was before I read any of those books. In retrospect it worked pretty good and in a way I ended up going full circle.
let me just say i greatly respect your deep knowledge on these topics and in no way intended to come off as antagonistic,and hope DF has great success with his mix.
i deal with quite a few older med card folks who are doing this for the first time in their lives,many with zero experience with any type of growing so veganics is an excellent fit for many of these folks as it eliminates a great deal of the learning curve and gets them to good quality meds and successful gardens easily.
S
SeaMaiden
Well, I'll tell you this--I was AMAZED to hear my own father, a doctor who is 73.5yo and seriously stuck in his ways, bring up the subject of organics to me. His paradigm has always been Miracle Grow. He has saturated, absolutely saturated, certain areas of their property with it, and as a result hasn't been able to grow good food in this little area directly in the ground for years.
We already know this is good, arable land, because its previous incarnation was avocado and citrus groves. The area is known for the development and cultivation of the Haas avocado, btw.
I've been telling him, for years now, "Dad, you're killing your soil, stop using that stuff on it!" and he'd go on about how *easy* it is to stick that thing on the end of the hose and just water.
Anyway, for some reason, now he's allowing himself to consider different options. I don't know why it is, I don't know who planted the seed, but I am very, very glad. That all being said, he's beginning to feel his age, so whatever makes cultivation easier for him is better. Whatever fits within his SS budget is best. I showed him some of my FPEs, but they of course stank to high heaven, and I believe it offended his delicate nose.
We already know this is good, arable land, because its previous incarnation was avocado and citrus groves. The area is known for the development and cultivation of the Haas avocado, btw.
I've been telling him, for years now, "Dad, you're killing your soil, stop using that stuff on it!" and he'd go on about how *easy* it is to stick that thing on the end of the hose and just water.
Anyway, for some reason, now he's allowing himself to consider different options. I don't know why it is, I don't know who planted the seed, but I am very, very glad. That all being said, he's beginning to feel his age, so whatever makes cultivation easier for him is better. Whatever fits within his SS budget is best. I showed him some of my FPEs, but they of course stank to high heaven, and I believe it offended his delicate nose.
