Oh they were not. All you're pointing to is differing quality, that's it. Cannabinoids and opiates don't go together well at all. I remember well my friend in Bangkok who had been a regular stoner but once he fell into being a junkie there he lost all interest in ganja. I've tried mixing them too and they weren't complimentary to me either. And as said here many times, it would be impossible to blend them efficiently AND still have nice smoking weed, it would have been costly to do with no added upside to the producer, much stronger legal penalties, the potential to turn many weed smokers into opiate addicts and on and on.
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- Opiated Thai Sticks: Myth or Truth? -
- Thread starter Cvh
- Start date
Oh they were not. All you're pointing to is differing quality, that's it. Cannabinoids and opiates don't go together well at all. I remember well my friend in Bangkok who had been a regular stoner but once he fell into being a junkie there he lost all interest in ganja. I've tried mixing them too and they weren't complimentary to me either. And as said here many times, it would be impossible to blend them efficiently AND still have nice smoking weed, it would have been costly to do with no added upside to the producer, much stronger legal penalties, the potential to turn many weed smokers into opiate addicts and on and on.
Although not related to Thai Stick, when I was a boy we used to smoke imported Albanian, Italian, African and home grown weed, one day one of the first packs from Switzerland arrived, super skunk grown indoors, totally different from what we were used to. .. There was a rumor that she was soaked in some chemical drug, in reality it was just good weed, grown better than ours ....
I think it went the same way with thai Stick, a much stronger herb than usual .....
I think it went the same way with thai Stick, a much stronger herb than usual .....
*yawn*
none of the growers in the country we are referring too believe this opium story ,
only the folks getting ripped off for more money by western dealers in western countries do ,
those dealers are the biggest spreaders of this story , not the folks who grew the weed ,
they say its an urban myth themselves ,, funny that hey ....
I have seen this effect so many times. The value of self esteeme is so big for anyone that only if u are pushed right into the facts and have no other way then to change your point of view someone will notice he has been scammed.
As long there are emotions involved logic is always second. And there are a lot of bad emotions with beeing ripped off.
As long there are emotions involved logic is always second. And there are a lot of bad emotions with beeing ripped off.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
I find it funny that some of you feel you can just out right say other peoples experiences are wrong and are a lie when you were not there so how many of you were even smoking cannabis at the time period.
Credible members have posted said they came across and did in fact smoke opiumated Thai sticks back in the day.
So what if you went to Thailand in the late 80s you would not of spoken to every grower to know what was happening on the ground.
Not one of you that are attacking the posts of people that say they scored and smoked opiumated Thai sticks seam to point out just how abundant and wide spread opium was in the 70s and early 80s.People could score opium just as easy as they could hash and cannabis often all from the same sauce.
People are allowed to have an opinion but that should not give some the right to attack or ridicule people that don't share your views.
Credible members have posted said they came across and did in fact smoke opiumated Thai sticks back in the day.
So what if you went to Thailand in the late 80s you would not of spoken to every grower to know what was happening on the ground.
Not one of you that are attacking the posts of people that say they scored and smoked opiumated Thai sticks seam to point out just how abundant and wide spread opium was in the 70s and early 80s.People could score opium just as easy as they could hash and cannabis often all from the same sauce.
People are allowed to have an opinion but that should not give some the right to attack or ridicule people that don't share your views.
FYI
Dr. Nobuo Ikekawa reported that marihuana from a Meo village, northern Thailand, contained high concentrations of THCV and CBDV and in addition some of the methyl homologues.UNODC research from 1973.
https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/bulletin/bulletin_1973-01-01_3_page005.html
Dr. Nobuo Ikekawa reported that marihuana from a Meo village, northern Thailand, contained high concentrations of THCV and CBDV and in addition some of the methyl homologues.UNODC research from 1973.
https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/bulletin/bulletin_1973-01-01_3_page005.html
I guess you think facts are funny and opinions are serious. It's not an "opinion" that there were not opiated Thai sticks, that's just a fact. Apparently one that is simply too hard to accept for those that have formed a deep emotional belief.
The moment a "credible" member insists their belief is a fact with nothing more to support it than your belief in their credibility, they become no longer credible. See how that works?
Where was this abundance of opium you speak of? Certainly nowhere in my experience and it would only matter in the villages of Isaan and the Mekong river valley where sticks were produced. It was not produced or consumed by the local people there. There was no profitable market for it there, there was no reason for it to go there in any meaningful quantity. It made no sense to even try and adulterate the sticks and it wasn't possible to do anyway. Attempting it would ruin the cannabis and be a costly waste of opium or the so called heroin water etc.
Actually people are not allowed to insist that the beliefs they cherish can also double as facts when it suits them. That seems to be an ongoing problem here. Obstinate refusal to revise or let go of opinions when there are no verified supporting facts is what will get ridiculed eventually.
theres is a difference between an opinion and a fact hempy ,
you know opium was quite expensive comapared to cannabis ,
why would a farmer take a loss on his product just to add something that in fact lessened the high on the product he has grown ,
which was already the best around and needed nothing to make it better ,
(opium does not enhance the high from cannabis , it detracts from it )
its a surprise that while u have been in this thread most of the time,
you have not taken in any of the information offered and still maintain your experience is real ,
despite everything pointing to it being untrue ,
lets face it you were conned and you cant come to terms with that so you hold onto your belief rather than admit you could be wrong ,
you have no experience with the country in question ,
and have some sort of imagined idea of the place ,
like it was the whole country growing every drug known to man all over the place ,
when in fact it only happened in a few areas , and the cannabis , which was not illegal ,
was not in the same place as the opium which was illegal ,
the cannabis farmers in the north east were not growing opium next to their cannabis ,
how do you propose these farmers tainted their product with opium ??
how do you explain out of all the shipments reaching foreign shores that in your mind must have contained opium
that there is none ever tested to prove it had opium on it ..
no one that has experience with thailand and thai stick at the time and from the source agrees with you ,
the only people that are convinced of this bunk story are ones with no experience and ones that were not in thailand when the thai stick was produced ,
and ones that have never traveled there in order to get some idea of how things work in the country ....
they are simply gullible folks who have been conned and for some crazy reason want to hold onto their belief to make themselves seem cool , or more old school ,
when in fact it makes them look gullible and stupid ....
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Opium was every were here in the 70s and early 80s and going by some old documentary i have seen with in the US and Europe also heroin and its use was also huge.
You were how old Donald in the late 70s early 80s ? You are younger than me by years and i was not long out of high school when we saw the first opiumated Thai Sticks. They were not something you saw lots of and they would only pop up here and there for us any way they were only around a short few years.
The Us and Australia military were sold cannabis laced with opium lots of opium was grown sold and consumed all documented.
I am leaning to the theory of Thai cannabis being dipped into opium water the golden triangle was run by war lords i think parts still are and large amounts of opium was grown and sold.
Thailand’s successful efforts to eradicate opium harvesting have made the country a leader in the global fight against the drugs trade.
The country's decades-long program of Alternative Livelihood Development – replacing narcotics production by supporting communities to take up legal, sustainable sources of income – has been used by governments in neighbouring Myanmar and Laos, and as far afield as South America and New Zealand.
Between 1991 and 2000, annual opium production in Thailand dropped from 23 tonnes to 6 tonnes, with an annual eradication rate of between 800 and 1,000 hectares a year.
Focusing on the hilly areas of the north where marginalised tribal populations have been harvesting opium for centuries, Thailand's campaign against opium has developed income streams in tourism, coffee, and fruit farming. Running in various permutations since the 1960s, it has been made possible by long term cooperation between the Royal Family, government and small communities.
The flagship project for the reduction program, and one of the most successful examples of the approach, is the Doi Tung Development Project. The trust has been recognised by the UN Office of Drugs and Crime as one of the best examples of sustainable alternative livelihood Development in the world. It began life as an endeavour by Thailand’s Princess Mother in 1988, and by 2000 became self-sufficient, having previously been funded by government and royal grants.
Marginalised communities are often driven to grow narcotics due to their lack of other options, and are exposed to violence, poor working conditions and low pay. The Doi Tung mountain area, which spans around 15,000 hectares, was a prime example of this deprivation, with poor infrastructure, scant government support and a rampant drugs trade. The 29,000-person population consisted of tribal people who often lacked citizenship, and the natural resources of the region had been depleted by slash-and-burn farming.
The Doi Tung project tackled these problems in three stages across thirty years. In the first five, it sought to address the basics, building up health care and education provision to tackle extreme poverty. The following 15 years focused on developing income streams that could serve as an alternative to opium. That meant cultivating crops but also working with communities to explore how base products could be developed to move up the value chain, teaching locals to roast and grind coffee, for example, or produce crafts.
Development of the coffee trade followed that rationale. First, farmers were trained to grow a better crop. Later, the Doi Tung project trained farmers to roast and grind the beans they cultivated, and set up links with buyers in hospitality and retail for selling in bulk. It supported the community to build and develop a recognisable Doi Tung brand. Finally it helped farmers set up 17 coffee shops, recognising that the profit margins on selling coffee by the cup are much higher than from sales of the crop itself.
The final, and current, stage aims at financial sustainability. Though many of the business ventures in Doi Tung are already self-sufficient, the royal foundation aims to hand over management of the project to local leaders by 2017. To make that possible, it’s now focusing on capacity building, especially educating local business skills and growing the Doi Tung brand. The project worked in partnership with the Thai Ministry of Education to enhance the curriculum of schools in the region.
Cooperation between government departments, the Royal Family and the local people of the area built on a long-term - and sometimes somewhat ad hoc - anti-narcotics effort carried out by the government of the area since the 1960s. The cultivation of opium was banned outright in Thailand in 1959, and the National Tribal Welfare committee, Department of Public Welfare and Royal Forestry Department began developing crop replacement and poverty alleviation policies.
These weren't just focused on developing alternative streams of income. Government efforts included issuing IDs to people living in the hill regions, giving an entry into the formal economy to people who otherwise were discriminated against because they belonged to tribal groups
https://apolitical.co/en/solution_a...eating-model-replaces-opium-sustainable-crops
You were how old Donald in the late 70s early 80s ? You are younger than me by years and i was not long out of high school when we saw the first opiumated Thai Sticks. They were not something you saw lots of and they would only pop up here and there for us any way they were only around a short few years.
The Us and Australia military were sold cannabis laced with opium lots of opium was grown sold and consumed all documented.
I am leaning to the theory of Thai cannabis being dipped into opium water the golden triangle was run by war lords i think parts still are and large amounts of opium was grown and sold.
Thailand’s successful efforts to eradicate opium harvesting have made the country a leader in the global fight against the drugs trade.
The country's decades-long program of Alternative Livelihood Development – replacing narcotics production by supporting communities to take up legal, sustainable sources of income – has been used by governments in neighbouring Myanmar and Laos, and as far afield as South America and New Zealand.
Between 1991 and 2000, annual opium production in Thailand dropped from 23 tonnes to 6 tonnes, with an annual eradication rate of between 800 and 1,000 hectares a year.
Focusing on the hilly areas of the north where marginalised tribal populations have been harvesting opium for centuries, Thailand's campaign against opium has developed income streams in tourism, coffee, and fruit farming. Running in various permutations since the 1960s, it has been made possible by long term cooperation between the Royal Family, government and small communities.
The flagship project for the reduction program, and one of the most successful examples of the approach, is the Doi Tung Development Project. The trust has been recognised by the UN Office of Drugs and Crime as one of the best examples of sustainable alternative livelihood Development in the world. It began life as an endeavour by Thailand’s Princess Mother in 1988, and by 2000 became self-sufficient, having previously been funded by government and royal grants.
Marginalised communities are often driven to grow narcotics due to their lack of other options, and are exposed to violence, poor working conditions and low pay. The Doi Tung mountain area, which spans around 15,000 hectares, was a prime example of this deprivation, with poor infrastructure, scant government support and a rampant drugs trade. The 29,000-person population consisted of tribal people who often lacked citizenship, and the natural resources of the region had been depleted by slash-and-burn farming.
The Doi Tung project tackled these problems in three stages across thirty years. In the first five, it sought to address the basics, building up health care and education provision to tackle extreme poverty. The following 15 years focused on developing income streams that could serve as an alternative to opium. That meant cultivating crops but also working with communities to explore how base products could be developed to move up the value chain, teaching locals to roast and grind coffee, for example, or produce crafts.
Development of the coffee trade followed that rationale. First, farmers were trained to grow a better crop. Later, the Doi Tung project trained farmers to roast and grind the beans they cultivated, and set up links with buyers in hospitality and retail for selling in bulk. It supported the community to build and develop a recognisable Doi Tung brand. Finally it helped farmers set up 17 coffee shops, recognising that the profit margins on selling coffee by the cup are much higher than from sales of the crop itself.
The final, and current, stage aims at financial sustainability. Though many of the business ventures in Doi Tung are already self-sufficient, the royal foundation aims to hand over management of the project to local leaders by 2017. To make that possible, it’s now focusing on capacity building, especially educating local business skills and growing the Doi Tung brand. The project worked in partnership with the Thai Ministry of Education to enhance the curriculum of schools in the region.
Cooperation between government departments, the Royal Family and the local people of the area built on a long-term - and sometimes somewhat ad hoc - anti-narcotics effort carried out by the government of the area since the 1960s. The cultivation of opium was banned outright in Thailand in 1959, and the National Tribal Welfare committee, Department of Public Welfare and Royal Forestry Department began developing crop replacement and poverty alleviation policies.
These weren't just focused on developing alternative streams of income. Government efforts included issuing IDs to people living in the hill regions, giving an entry into the formal economy to people who otherwise were discriminated against because they belonged to tribal groups
https://apolitical.co/en/solution_a...eating-model-replaces-opium-sustainable-crops
hempy you are 3 years older than me ,, it makes barely any difference at all ,
and i started toking around 1980, and it was thai sticks we were toking ...
the amount of folks that got conned into believing the opium dipped fairytale would tend to indicate there was more than just a little bit ,
folks from america and australia , ie yourself , rav , and a few others in this thread ,
for that to occur there had to be a shit load of it ,
unless they just produced a few sticks just for you guys ?? lol ...
you see how ridiculous it sounds ,,
sam skunkman said when he was there in the hay day he asked the thai growers if there was any truth to the story ,
now if there had been much produced , a fair few would have known about it ,
stories spread like wildfire in thailand ,
but sam said the growers reckon it was an urban myth started by westerners and they had never heard of it ...
you have been told over and over and over ,
the thai sticks were not produced in the golden triangle man ,
no where near there at all ,
thats where the opim was grown , and the cannabis was grown a long way from there,
by a totally different people ,
and no they didn t transport one to the other , then charge nothing for doing so ...
this is the sort of ignorance that occurs with lack of local knowledge and experience and not listening to folks that have it ,
stop being so obtuse man , listen and learn ....
and i started toking around 1980, and it was thai sticks we were toking ...
the amount of folks that got conned into believing the opium dipped fairytale would tend to indicate there was more than just a little bit ,
folks from america and australia , ie yourself , rav , and a few others in this thread ,
for that to occur there had to be a shit load of it ,
unless they just produced a few sticks just for you guys ?? lol ...
you see how ridiculous it sounds ,,
sam skunkman said when he was there in the hay day he asked the thai growers if there was any truth to the story ,
now if there had been much produced , a fair few would have known about it ,
stories spread like wildfire in thailand ,
but sam said the growers reckon it was an urban myth started by westerners and they had never heard of it ...
you have been told over and over and over ,
the thai sticks were not produced in the golden triangle man ,
no where near there at all ,
thats where the opim was grown , and the cannabis was grown a long way from there,
by a totally different people ,
and no they didn t transport one to the other , then charge nothing for doing so ...
this is the sort of ignorance that occurs with lack of local knowledge and experience and not listening to folks that have it ,
stop being so obtuse man , listen and learn ....
i have seen a doco on the program to eradicate the opium-growing and have the people grow other crops ,
i watched it on tv when i was in thailand once ,, they did good work there , i think they even managed to get a dairy industry going ,
all overseen by the king ,
it was in the north though , not the north east where the cannabis was growing ,
there was no opium being grown in the north east where the cannabis was growing ,
so there was no royal program to show the locals how to grow other crops ,
you cant just think something , or lean towards a theory and pretend its truth and fact hempy ,
what you think is untrue and never happened , no matter how hard you think it , it wont make it real ....
ive seen that links you added to attempt to prove your theory and all were debunked very quickly...
i watched it on tv when i was in thailand once ,, they did good work there , i think they even managed to get a dairy industry going ,
all overseen by the king ,
it was in the north though , not the north east where the cannabis was growing ,
there was no opium being grown in the north east where the cannabis was growing ,
so there was no royal program to show the locals how to grow other crops ,
you cant just think something , or lean towards a theory and pretend its truth and fact hempy ,
what you think is untrue and never happened , no matter how hard you think it , it wont make it real ....
ive seen that links you added to attempt to prove your theory and all were debunked very quickly...
Thai Stick was around when I first started smoking in '77 and it was fantastic, intense and trippy roller coaster ride. The effect was nothing like opium, which I have smoked twice. The opium laced Thai Sticks is a myth. The people who were there and smuggling sticks say as much.
Hempy presents no real evidence apart from the fact that Cannabis and Opium were grown in the same country. Glad he's not a judge because that is no evidence at all.
An excert from an interview with Peter Maguire (Thai Stick: Surfers, Scammers, and the Untold Story of the Marijuana Trade)
Q: What is a Thai stick? I always thought it was marijuana wrapped around a stick and enhanced with other drugs. This is from Curious in Tennessee.
PM: That is an urban myth. Basically at the time and growing up I thought the same and they would say, oh, it’s opiated Thai stick, they’re dipped in opium, but in fact it was incredibly strong cannabis sativa that was masterfully tied to a piece of, a small piece of bamboo, often with a thread of hemp fiber
https://www.cupblog.org/2013/11/21/i...rijuana-trade/
Hempy presents no real evidence apart from the fact that Cannabis and Opium were grown in the same country. Glad he's not a judge because that is no evidence at all.
An excert from an interview with Peter Maguire (Thai Stick: Surfers, Scammers, and the Untold Story of the Marijuana Trade)
Q: What is a Thai stick? I always thought it was marijuana wrapped around a stick and enhanced with other drugs. This is from Curious in Tennessee.
PM: That is an urban myth. Basically at the time and growing up I thought the same and they would say, oh, it’s opiated Thai stick, they’re dipped in opium, but in fact it was incredibly strong cannabis sativa that was masterfully tied to a piece of, a small piece of bamboo, often with a thread of hemp fiber
https://www.cupblog.org/2013/11/21/i...rijuana-trade/
So you weren't there either. You seem to be relying on someone who sold you a stick in Australia over 45 years ago? Then you seem happy to discount the accounts of people who not only were there, but smuggled the sticks. FMD, you are stubborn.
acespicoli
Well-known member
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Last edited:
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
No i was never in Thailand Chi13 nor were you around or were any one here claiming there was no Opiumated Thia or were any of you with me sharing my experiences with cannabis.
I have smoked opium i have smoked opiumated Thai and hash clearly you have not.
as i said sam was and i relayed what he said ,
as were other first hand experiences been relayed here ,
you just choose not to believe them hempy because your stubborn and thick-headed ,
you can bet that hash was just hash with mold also ,,,
how did the supposed opiated sticks look like??
what was the difference between them and the non-opiated ones ??
can you explain why anyone would ruin the best pot at the time by adding opium to it??
did you pay more for these fairy tale sticks ??
what was the price ??
tell us the difference between an opiate experience and that of cannabis ??
lastly , where , other than u theorize , guess and imagine , is the proof of these sticks ??
as were other first hand experiences been relayed here ,
you just choose not to believe them hempy because your stubborn and thick-headed ,
you can bet that hash was just hash with mold also ,,,
how did the supposed opiated sticks look like??
what was the difference between them and the non-opiated ones ??
can you explain why anyone would ruin the best pot at the time by adding opium to it??
did you pay more for these fairy tale sticks ??
what was the price ??
tell us the difference between an opiate experience and that of cannabis ??
lastly , where , other than u theorize , guess and imagine , is the proof of these sticks ??
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Some of you claimed cannabis was not grown in areas were opium was grown .
Mark Moxon's Travel Writing -Thailand: Chiang Mai
But the one thing that made the trek different from the normal experience was the local drug culture among the tribes. The hill tribes of northern Thailand are famous throughout the world, but not necessarily for the best reasons; they grow some of the best marijuana in the world, and the area is a major source of opium. It's obvious why; people in northern Thailand are not rich, and if they can survive by growing drugs, then who can blame them?
Up here in the northern hills, these drugs are technically illegal, but in practice they're decriminalised, much like marijuana is in Amsterdam[SUP]1[/SUP]. Is it any wonder that the organised treks through the hills are so popular?
https://www.moxon.net/thailand/chiang_mai.html
Garcia: PhD Drug Smuggler ~Book 2~: ~Opium~Hashish~Thai Sticks~LSD-25~Money Laundering~
Overview
Damian Garcia: PhD Drug Smuggler
The story of Damian Garcia and the international drug trade in opium and hashish by PhD students in New York City began in 1972.
They first met as financially hungry graduate students. They combined their expertise and intellect in business, chemistry, banking, and law to develop extremely discreet and enormously profitable global drug smuggling and money laundering enterprises.
The financial returns exceeded their wildest imaginations, growing into the billions of dollars over time. They invested in social services helping those in need, legitimate businesses and global investments that continue to prosper.
Money laundering is the back end of the international drug trade, and converting drug money into legal income is an expensive, complex, and dangerous process.
The family believed that brains always prevailed over brawn.
As business grew, they expanded their product lines to include the finest Thai marijuana and purest LSD-25 acid. They manufactured the Thai marijuana products into six-inch opium dipped strawberry flavored sticks and new Park Roads cigarettes.
The group invented the process for converting concentrated liquid LSD-25 into premium Aspirin-Acid pills.
Their clientele included professors, artists, politicians, doctors, lawyers, accountants, and elite professionals worldwide. Global sales skyrocketed.
When we re-join the group in 1978, they have taken drug smuggling to the next level. Using the investor-franchisee business model, they developed their criminal organizations into multi-billion dollar international drug smuggling and money-laundering enterprises.
The group owns and controls over 200 legitimate companies and fin
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/damian-garcia-chris-mosquera/1123904087?ean=9781504353144
Mark Moxon's Travel Writing -Thailand: Chiang Mai
But the one thing that made the trek different from the normal experience was the local drug culture among the tribes. The hill tribes of northern Thailand are famous throughout the world, but not necessarily for the best reasons; they grow some of the best marijuana in the world, and the area is a major source of opium. It's obvious why; people in northern Thailand are not rich, and if they can survive by growing drugs, then who can blame them?
Up here in the northern hills, these drugs are technically illegal, but in practice they're decriminalised, much like marijuana is in Amsterdam[SUP]1[/SUP]. Is it any wonder that the organised treks through the hills are so popular?
https://www.moxon.net/thailand/chiang_mai.html
Garcia: PhD Drug Smuggler ~Book 2~: ~Opium~Hashish~Thai Sticks~LSD-25~Money Laundering~
Overview
Damian Garcia: PhD Drug Smuggler
The story of Damian Garcia and the international drug trade in opium and hashish by PhD students in New York City began in 1972.
They first met as financially hungry graduate students. They combined their expertise and intellect in business, chemistry, banking, and law to develop extremely discreet and enormously profitable global drug smuggling and money laundering enterprises.
The financial returns exceeded their wildest imaginations, growing into the billions of dollars over time. They invested in social services helping those in need, legitimate businesses and global investments that continue to prosper.
Money laundering is the back end of the international drug trade, and converting drug money into legal income is an expensive, complex, and dangerous process.
The family believed that brains always prevailed over brawn.
As business grew, they expanded their product lines to include the finest Thai marijuana and purest LSD-25 acid. They manufactured the Thai marijuana products into six-inch opium dipped strawberry flavored sticks and new Park Roads cigarettes.
The group invented the process for converting concentrated liquid LSD-25 into premium Aspirin-Acid pills.
Their clientele included professors, artists, politicians, doctors, lawyers, accountants, and elite professionals worldwide. Global sales skyrocketed.
When we re-join the group in 1978, they have taken drug smuggling to the next level. Using the investor-franchisee business model, they developed their criminal organizations into multi-billion dollar international drug smuggling and money-laundering enterprises.
The group owns and controls over 200 legitimate companies and fin
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/damian-garcia-chris-mosquera/1123904087?ean=9781504353144
