OldOne's 2nd cab run - PLL / PPK / Arjan's Haze 3

[oldone]

Today's readings:

_______day3_____day2____day1
bulk 1.0/5.1, 1.0/5.5, 1.0/5.5
-ppk 0.9/6.7, 1.0/6.4, 1.0/5.5

So the first thing that jumps out at me is she needs more food. Increasing EC will drop Ph so its all good. I'm going to mix a batch at 1.5 which conveniently works out to .9 Jacks and .6 calcnit.

I wonder whats going on in the bulk rez. With EC stable why the ph drop? Not worried, just curious.

I made a timelapse movie of the first 6 hours of her day and watched fan leaves inflate but not much else going on. Maybe saw buds swelling slightly, but it may just be my imagination...

Later,
OO

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

I don't really know,

But that's never stopped me from replying before...

Your wick is a two way device, so maybe whatever was making your pH higher in the medium is making it's way back into the res?

I don't really have any ideas,

EXCEPT

I need a coffee.

 

[oldone]

good morning IF...gotta have that morning coffee...

So mixing up my first full batch of Jack's has been a revelation. Like all of D9's recommendations its proved to be absurdly simple. It turns out I need exactly 1 tablespoon of each in 20 liters and I hit 1.5 dead on.

I may have found a clue to the bulk rez ph drop. On Jack's instruction sheet it says "...be sure to aerate the solution with a bubbler....to maintain proper oxygen levels...". Since I/we dont do that could the missing DO be the culprit?

OO

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Don't think so.

Can't think of why, unless they are trying to oxidize some reaction or continually agitate the solution to keep everything suspended..

D9 don't do it. If he ain't doin' it, it ain't worth doin'.

 

[*mistress*]

good thred

 

[oldone]

Hi *mistress*, its very nice to see you here. I've read your posts everywhere and I appreciate you stopping by.

Do you think that it is better to use the 2 part feeding regime with Jack's and calcnit instead of mixing them up? D9 seems to run fine using them mixed and the fact that I'm using it is his fault. (along with merciless goading from our ImaginaryFriend)

Much respect and best wishes,
OO

 

[delta9nxs]

hi, it is perfectly ok to mix the jack's first and the calcium nitrate second in the same container as long as you are using a working strength solution. i have never had a precipitation event doing this and jrpeters says that it is ok.

if you mix it in more concentrated form you can cause a precipitation event.

it is also ok to mix them separately if you need to. just pour in the jack's part first.

i do not aerate my solution as it is not necessary the way i'm handling it. just the movement from container to container seems sufficient to keep everything in solution.

i cannot stress enough that it is important to mix each batch in a clean, dry container and then top your bulk res from that.

i don't understand the ph drop to 5.1. when i mix ec 1.8 it ph's in ro water to 5.4-5.6 and then stays there. the ph doesn't change much until it hits the recirculating part of the system.

the rise in ph in the ppk can only be explained by residuals from the fnb.

increasing the ec to 1.5 sounds like a good idea.

have you calibrated your meters? i calibrate the ph meter weekly and the tds meter monthly.

 

[oldone]

i cannot stress enough that it is important to mix each batch in a clean, dry container and then top your bulk res from that.

Why? I mix up 20 liter batches in a container thats used over and over. No way to make it clean and dry. I do rinse with a liile RO first but thats all.

i don't understand the ph drop to 5.1. when i mix ec 1.8 it ph's in ro water to 5.4-5.6 and then stays there. the ph doesn't change much until it hits the recirculating part of the system.

When I mixed a 1.5 batch today, it came in at 5.1 Ph. I kind of expected that since EC was 50% higher. I wonder if all RO water is not created equally. My RO < .1 EC. I cant measure more accurately than that.

have you calibrated your meters? i calibrate the ph meter weekly and the tds meter monthly.

I calibrated the Ph pen today. Will do every couple of weeks or so. The truncheon dosent need it, just keep it clean.

Later D9,
OO

 

[delta9nxs]

Why? I mix up 20 liter batches in a container thats used over and over. No way to make it clean and dry. I do rinse with a liile RO first but thats all.

When I mixed a 1.5 batch today, it came in at 5.1 Ph. I kind of expected that since EC was 50% higher. I wonder if all RO water is not created equally. My RO < .1 EC. I cant measure more accurately than that.

I calibrated the Ph pen today. Will do every couple of weeks or so. The truncheon dosent need it, just keep it clean.

Later D9,
OO

yeah, i guess i meant a clean container, wet or dry.

all ro water is not quite the same. mine is currently 19 ppm and 6.0 ph.

i wonder what your ro ph is?

 

[oldone]

i wonder what your ro ph is? mine is 6.0

5.8, Ill keep an eye on it. Maybe we can get IF to chime in...

OO

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

I'm ashamed.

I still haven't ordered Jacks.

I have nothing to contribute.

Except to say that my pH readings are extraordinarily unreliable. I have two pens that calibrate identically, and then disagree in application. So I picked one pen and use it. And look at the girls. And then I smile. And don't worry so much.

I run RO into a 5 gallon bucket with a float valve. I transfer that into another bucket that isn't hard plumbed into the RO, and mix my nutes in that. Same bucket every time. As I've probably noted, that program is more than haphazard, and my recipes shoot for 3-1-4ishness with whatever I grab first off the shelves. Then my pH pen tells me it's low... like 4.5 low. And then I check the plant res and it tells me somehow, by running down three feet of pipe, it's moved up to 5-9-6.1.

Right now the RO in the bucket reads 8.1. I can't explain that... I think it is usually closer to seven.

But I've been drinking out of it.

Looking at the last sentence I wrote, it's clear I'm actually just a retard.

Who drinks water out of their nute mixing bucket?

A retard, that's who.

 

[oldone]

I'm ashamed.

I still haven't ordered Jacks.

You should be. $53 delivered in 5 days by express canoe and you still haven't ordered? After commanding...COMMANDING me to do it? Turnabout is fair play so...do it.

DO IT!...NOW

I have nothing to contribute.

Dont be silly.

Except to say that my pH readings are extraordinarily unreliable.

I have no confidence that my PH readings are reliable. The nice thing is with the Jacks you get a light blue color(not the yellow of FNB) so a drop PH test might actually work.

I do however have great confidence in my BlueLab Truncheon. With the Jack's those genius's at JRPeters lab concocted their products to require *equal* quantities of each hydro and calcnit to achive the magical 1 to .67 ratio. This is such a stunningly simple concept it took me a while to figure it out.

Who drinks water out of their nute mixing bucket?

A retard, that's who.

You need better coffee. Is there a Tim Hortons nearby?

OO

 

[*mistress*]

either/or, if mixing all together work,

 

[oldone]

flower day 62

flower day 62

day 57...............................day 62

At least the buds look like they're fattening up.

A closer look:

You can clearly see the damage caused by nute buildup in the coco. My fault completely, I got too lazy. Anyway the great flush happened 4 days ago and I hope I've cured the problem.

Still and all the buds do look pretty good.

Tomorrow is the end of week 9 and GHS says she finishes in 10 to 11 weeks. I still think she'll go longer, but...

Any sativa experts out there?

Today's readings (EC/PH):
date___ppk_______bulk
0924 1.5/5.8 - 1.5/5.3 - both 1.5ec low estimate 1.45
0923 1.5/5.4 - 1.5/5.4 - after swap to 1.5
0923 0.9/6.7 - 1.0/5.1
0922 1.0/6.4 - 1.0/5.5
0921 1.0/5.5 - 1.0/5.5 - changeover to Jacks

best wishes everyone,
OO

 

[delta9nxs]

Mistress, here is an excerpt from your “nutrient solutions” quote #27:

“Because of the tendency of some nutrients to combine with others and precipitate when concentrated the standard procedure is to prepare two solutions where precipitating components are kept separate. When a prepared solution is added to the nutrient water the concentrations are so low that precipitation does not cause any problems. Calcium phosphate and calcium sulphate are the main concern. Calcium is therefore kept away from phosphate and sulphate in the formulations. Never add both nutrients solutions together and then add into the water feed - valuable nutrients will precipitate and become unavailable.”

what this means is that you don't pre-mix them in concentrated form and then add them to your dilute working solution. but you can pre-mix them in dilute form and add this to your working solution with no concerns.

now jrpeterslab recommendations

“Follow these steps to obtain a precipitate free solution
1. Dissolve 130 ounces of 5-12-26 Hydroponic in 1000 gallons of final feed solution. You will obtain the
following elemental PPM concentrations:
Element N P K Mg SO4 Fe Mn Zn Cu B Mo
PPM 50 52 215 63 246 3 .50 .15 .15 .50 .10
2. Dissolve any additional Epsom Salts desired into the above 1000 gallon solution before proceeding. For
most crops 50 PPM Magnesium is an adequate level in solution. To increase your Magnesium levels
dissolve 10 ounces of Epsom Salts in 1000 gallons of final feed solution to obtain 7.5 PPM additional
Magnesium.
3. Dissolve 86 ounces of Calcium Nitrate into the above 1000 gallon solution to obtain a total nutrient
concentration of 150 PPM Nitrogen and 116 PPM Calcium.
E.C at 100 ppm N = 2.10 Limit of Solubility= 3 lb/gal.”


here they are talking about the same 1000 gal container full of water, mixing in first the jack's, second the magnesium sulfate if needed, third the calcium nitrate.

The confusion arises in the fact that this is not a “concentrated solution”. This is a working solution and at this strength, mixed this way, you will not have a precipitation event.


“SPECIAL MIXING DIRECTIONS:
Jack’s Hydroponic formulation and Jack’s Calcium Nitrate are packaged separately, and require a
little special attention when mixing - in order to avoid forming a precipitant in the tank. These
products must be dissolved either in a two tank system or in dilute (or Ready-to-Use) quantities.
Following these specific stepwise directions is vital, along with the knowledge that these items
should NEVER be mixed in a concentrate tank together”

“two tank system or in dilute (or ready-to-use) quantities.”

the only way to use this in a two tank system is with fertilizer injectors. Or by hand watering from each tank alternately. In a ppk this does not work as you are supplying a continuous liquid feed at all times.

I have been mixing in one tank, as instructed, for six months or so, and have never had a precipitation event and I am not having any problems with the plants.

In commercial greenhouses they will sometimes mix the 2 components in very concentrated form in 2 separate tanks and then inject the concentrate a little at a time into a dilute working mixture to make corrections. This is a lot different from mixing them at a dilute working strength.

d9

 

[oldone]

either/or, if mixing all together work, do it!

That's the plan in keeping with my general "do less" attitude!

gh fnb have cal suspended, or settled @ bottom. tha why it state 'shake vigorusly", to get cal into the solution to guaranteed 4% analysis. if not shake well, >-no cal, maybe... as it 'heavy metal'...

I hated shaking the damn bottle, you never knew when enough was enough. Good thing about Jacks is that its powder...I like it.

hope this help, just pov

Very much so and thanks,
OO

PS are you a sativa expert?

 

[oldone]

The confusion arises in the fact that this is not a “concentrated solution”. This is a working solution and at this strength, mixed this way, you will not have a precipitation event.

and

I have been mixing in one tank, as instructed, for six months or so, and have never had a precipitation event and I am not having any problems with the plants.
d9

Thats what I thought and it was one reason I went with Jacks. It should be cleaner. The inside of the ppk rez is thinly coated with a brown sludge from the FNB. I cant wait to clean it out.

Great post D9, thanks
OO

 

[delta9nxs]

OO, good morning! nice to see the ph falling into line after the increase to ec 1.5. those readings look normal to me.

 

[delta9nxs]

?

 

[oldone]

good afternoon D9,

Today's readings (EC/PH):
date___ppk_______bulk
0928 1.5/5.8 - 1.5/5.3
0927 1.5/5.6 - 1.5/5.5 - top up about 12 liters(after testing)
0926 1.4/5.8 - 1.5/5.4
0925 1.4/5.8 - 1.5/5.3 - pkk EC definitely dropping slowly
0924 1.5/5.8 - 1.5/5.3 - both 1.5ec low estimate 1.45
0923 1.5/5.4 - 1.5/5.4 - after swap to 1.5
0923 0.9/6.7 - 1.0/5.1
0922 1.0/6.4 - 1.0/5.5
0921 1.0/5.5 - 1.0/5.5 - changeover to Jacks
Its interesting to watch the Ph bounce around but I think the system is stable.

Not much has changed otherwise.


Damaged leaves wont heal and I'm close to the chop so there is no new growth. Some of the upper buds appear to have new flowers blooming but most have 50-75% red pistols. Lots of very fine triches which I have no way of magnifying (yet). Very minty and something-I-cant-identify smell.

Almost time to take test bud

See ya,
OO