oldone
Member
RO water + FNB @ 1.5 EC with Calmag @ .4 EC. I raise Ph to 5.7. My calmag deficiency seems to have gone away. The fan leaves develop red stems after a while.
Otherwise she looks fantastic and she is still growing quickly.
Thanks,
OO
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OldOne's 2nd cab run - PLL / PPK / Arjan's Haze 3
- Thread starter oldone
- Start date
RO water + FNB @ 1.5 EC with Calmag @ .4 EC. I raise Ph to 5.7. My calmag deficiency seems to have gone away. The fan leaves develop red stems after a while.
Otherwise she looks fantastic and she is still growing quickly.
Thanks,
OO
Strangely
Member
I'm planning a wick based cab, mistress originally got me mulling it over as some wknds I'm away and I could leave my ladies longer without fear of under watering.
So I'm planning two identical tubs - bottom one naturally the rez - top one full of coco and wicks (some swanky Vileda cloth cut up). I'll also have a small container in the rez to raise up the top container more (they sit a little too deeply together without). I was planning on drilling holes around the sides of the top few inches of the rez container to allow air in (I think mistress suggests this as a good idea). What do you guys reckon? I'm considering a small basic air pump to keep the rez nice and oxygenated as well, worth the extra hassle do you think?
Cheers Guys, looking great already Oldone!!
Keep those lovely pics coming!
So I'm planning two identical tubs - bottom one naturally the rez - top one full of coco and wicks (some swanky Vileda cloth cut up). I'll also have a small container in the rez to raise up the top container more (they sit a little too deeply together without). I was planning on drilling holes around the sides of the top few inches of the rez container to allow air in (I think mistress suggests this as a good idea). What do you guys reckon? I'm considering a small basic air pump to keep the rez nice and oxygenated as well, worth the extra hassle do you think?
Cheers Guys, looking great already Oldone!!
Keep those lovely pics coming!
oldone
Member
Hi Strangely, welcome aboard.
I think your hole drilling idea is a good one. My top surface never dries out I dunno if this is bad or not. I'll definitely be doing this next run.
Putting air into the rez is never a bad idea except for 2 things noise and pump failure. I tried a bubble cloner a while back and 2 hours later I heard, "Dad, whats that bubbling noise?", yikes. Those clones died quickly. Also if your plants get used to a well oxygenated rez and the pump fails things can get ugly fast.
Just my 2c.
How much vertical space do you have from just below the lights to your floor?
I have 30" and wanted 14" (PLL light penetration) above the screen so everything else had to fit under it. The other limiting height is that of the air gap between the media filled top pot and the surface level of the rez beneath. This is very important because...
D9's PPK thread has an excellent section on the concept of a Perched Water Table. Essentially its a wet poorly oxygenated zone in the growing media that can be controlled in a wick system with air gap height. A big PWT is bad, no PWT is best. I maintain a 3" air gap which testing proved eliminates it.
I mention the above because I think they are the important bits in small cab design for wick hydro systems.
Good luck,
OO
I think your hole drilling idea is a good one. My top surface never dries out I dunno if this is bad or not. I'll definitely be doing this next run.
Putting air into the rez is never a bad idea except for 2 things noise and pump failure. I tried a bubble cloner a while back and 2 hours later I heard, "Dad, whats that bubbling noise?", yikes. Those clones died quickly. Also if your plants get used to a well oxygenated rez and the pump fails things can get ugly fast.
Just my 2c.
How much vertical space do you have from just below the lights to your floor?
I have 30" and wanted 14" (PLL light penetration) above the screen so everything else had to fit under it. The other limiting height is that of the air gap between the media filled top pot and the surface level of the rez beneath. This is very important because...
D9's PPK thread has an excellent section on the concept of a Perched Water Table. Essentially its a wet poorly oxygenated zone in the growing media that can be controlled in a wick system with air gap height. A big PWT is bad, no PWT is best. I maintain a 3" air gap which testing proved eliminates it.
I mention the above because I think they are the important bits in small cab design for wick hydro systems.
Good luck,
OO
Strangely
Member
Cheers for the concise and prompt reply Oldone!
You know what, not that I'm a shameless turncoat, as easily swayed as week old clone in a wind tunnel, but I might fuck off the pump. I spent ages (well ok I asked Scrubninja) choosing a decent yet quiet fan due to my cab being up in my loft (I live in a terrace) and crappy patched up dividing walls. So I don't know why I started drifting over to the idea of a pump. Mistress did say briefly whisking up fresh Rez water helps, I wonder how much? Think I'll defer to the original whisking plan, after your additional guidance!
I've read that thread you mention, I found it really interesting. Especially the realisation you don't need perlite etc in the bottom of, say our / my coco tub. The level the water will sit at won't change, you'll just lose space for more how medium (coco) or Rez liquid. So I was aiming for a gap of some sort, I'll now be aiming to make that gap about 3 inches!
So a subscription and some rep heading your way. You sound / write like a Brit? I'm in blighty myself for the record. Thanks again and top grow looking forward to the updates!
You know what, not that I'm a shameless turncoat, as easily swayed as week old clone in a wind tunnel, but I might fuck off the pump. I spent ages (well ok I asked Scrubninja) choosing a decent yet quiet fan due to my cab being up in my loft (I live in a terrace) and crappy patched up dividing walls. So I don't know why I started drifting over to the idea of a pump. Mistress did say briefly whisking up fresh Rez water helps, I wonder how much? Think I'll defer to the original whisking plan, after your additional guidance!
I've read that thread you mention, I found it really interesting. Especially the realisation you don't need perlite etc in the bottom of, say our / my coco tub. The level the water will sit at won't change, you'll just lose space for more how medium (coco) or Rez liquid. So I was aiming for a gap of some sort, I'll now be aiming to make that gap about 3 inches!
So a subscription and some rep heading your way. You sound / write like a Brit? I'm in blighty myself for the record. Thanks again and top grow looking forward to the updates!
oldone
Member
Am I a Brit?...nah just watching too much Top Gear I guess, LOL. We are colonial cousins so to speak as I'm from Canada.
I have an adjustable float valve to set my level. I found 3" works with microfiber wicks. Other materials may work differently, YMMV.
Yeah, Scrub's the man. He helped me enormously designing my cab and D9 infected me with the PPK madness. Its guys like this that make IC great.
Later mate,
OO
I have an adjustable float valve to set my level. I found 3" works with microfiber wicks. Other materials may work differently, YMMV.
Yeah, Scrub's the man. He helped me enormously designing my cab and D9 infected me with the PPK madness. Its guys like this that make IC great.
Later mate,
OO
Strangely
Member
Hi Oldone,
Gotta love TopGear, even with Hammonds increasingly ridiculous hair!
I didn't start reading the PPK thread previously as I didn't like the title (!). So I've got some reading to do there, however a few pages in has already raised some queries you might like to comment on.
I think there was general agreement added coco gives some room for manoeuvre in terms of the rez running dry (by accident, long wknd etc). But this concerned me...
As I have bought some kickass Vileda super cloth thing, which sounds like it wont be any good now. Would you recommend any from the link below? There's a couple of 'microfibre' ones in there...
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.j...s&fh_refpath=facet_159016185&ts=1280841858371
Also where do you stand on Humic / fulvic acid use? If I'm dropping the air pump might be a good idea right?
Gotta love TopGear, even with Hammonds increasingly ridiculous hair!
I didn't start reading the PPK thread previously as I didn't like the title (!). So I've got some reading to do there, however a few pages in has already raised some queries you might like to comment on.
I think there was general agreement added coco gives some room for manoeuvre in terms of the rez running dry (by accident, long wknd etc). But this concerned me...
As I have bought some kickass Vileda super cloth thing, which sounds like it wont be any good now. Would you recommend any from the link below? There's a couple of 'microfibre' ones in there...
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.j...s&fh_refpath=facet_159016185&ts=1280841858371
Also where do you stand on Humic / fulvic acid use? If I'm dropping the air pump might be a good idea right?
Last edited:
oldone
Member
Roll up a fat one and read the whole thread. D9's system has evolved over time...you'll see what I mean.
Yeah me too. I read it when I was testing wicking materials. I am using dollar store microfiber wash clothes cut into strips. All I can say is it seems to be working fine.
???, educate me brother.
Later,
OO
good evening!
oo, i never let the coco dry. it functions best at that squeeze test level that i described. just a little moisture showing between your fingers. letting it dry concentrates salts.
letting water evaporate from your containers tends to concentrate the nutrients in the res and begins to mess with ph as it progresses.
drilling the sidewall definitely improves o2 pickup but in your case since you are sub-irrigating only you should be careful not to create too much air flow. with a 3" gap though you have a lot of correction room to play with.
when i wrote about the shamwow type fabrics i had just read a research paper on wicking materials and that was their view on the subject.
perhaps they were using it as a drain only without the lower end being immersed in water. i know that when it is hung in water it will conduct well.
here we have a brit, a canuck, and a redneck from the deep south in the u.s. all growing pot. all getting along fine. maybe they should try this at the united nations.
later
oo, i never let the coco dry. it functions best at that squeeze test level that i described. just a little moisture showing between your fingers. letting it dry concentrates salts.
letting water evaporate from your containers tends to concentrate the nutrients in the res and begins to mess with ph as it progresses.
drilling the sidewall definitely improves o2 pickup but in your case since you are sub-irrigating only you should be careful not to create too much air flow. with a 3" gap though you have a lot of correction room to play with.
when i wrote about the shamwow type fabrics i had just read a research paper on wicking materials and that was their view on the subject.
perhaps they were using it as a drain only without the lower end being immersed in water. i know that when it is hung in water it will conduct well.
here we have a brit, a canuck, and a redneck from the deep south in the u.s. all growing pot. all getting along fine. maybe they should try this at the united nations.
later
oldone
Member
It seems wont dry by itself. Maybe its my 7" coco depth apposed to your 10"(?). Maybe we're seeing the wick height of coco?
I agree but I have to wait for a "kid free" time when I can modify the PPK's lid. The roots are exploding into the rez. I take heart from an article in your PPK thread about cucumbers in a 45gal drum(I think). It seems they had no trouble dealing with roots in the rez with ever increasing PPM...we'll see.
Not a problem my friend, live and learn.
I couldn't agree more. It's the strength of our community and the reason we'll never die. Our political leaders have a lot to learn.
Peace,
OO
oldone
Member
Why dont you test it? Just hang it vertically with 1" or so immersed in water and observe how far up it wicks.
If it wicks far enough you next have to find out if it will transfer wicked water to coco. I just took a saturated piece, tossed it into a beer cup, added a bit of water and then filled it with dry coco. I found the little extra water helps to get the process started. You should see almost right away if it will work or not.
Good luck,
OO
Strangely
Member
Sorry meant to put something about the humic fulcic acid use. From my understanding it's meant to be good for oxygenating and general up keep of a Rez that doesn't get changed much. Mistress recommends flora nova (which has humic and fulcic acid in it) for her wick system. But I can't get that around here so I was seeing what others thought. I'm leaning towards Biobizz nutes as HazyLady recommended them to me (and she's the man, well woman!) but not sure if they have humic/fulvic in them.
oldone
Member
That explains it...I use FNB.
I saw an amazing article last year about this university project growing cucmbers. Cant remeber where but the gist of it was growing a single plant in a 45gal drum. The drum was filled once at the start of the season with hydro solution and never refilled with anything. The roots just adapted to the changing TDS and Ph as the rez was used up. There was now way for the rez to get any O2.
Since the roots not growing into my rez are well oxygenated, I wonder if having them submersed will be a problem. So far its not.
I think it was in D9's PPK thread but I'm not sure.
I'll check it out and get back,
OO
I saw an amazing article last year about this university project growing cucmbers. Cant remeber where but the gist of it was growing a single plant in a 45gal drum. The drum was filled once at the start of the season with hydro solution and never refilled with anything. The roots just adapted to the changing TDS and Ph as the rez was used up. There was now way for the rez to get any O2.
Since the roots not growing into my rez are well oxygenated, I wonder if having them submersed will be a problem. So far its not.
I think it was in D9's PPK thread but I'm not sure.
I'll check it out and get back,
OO
Strangely
Member
Crazy idea but it could just work! I'll grab it out of the loft tomorrow and do just that.
I'm trying to find out the ingredients for BioBizz grow and bloom to see if it does contain humic or fulvic. Sounds like FNB would really be the ticket as well bit I want to get everything I need from one shop ie: nutes medium etc not cab materials.
oldone
Member
Crazy?...like a fox dude, LOL.
I tested 4 materials side by side like this. TShirt cotton, rope, some polyester fabric and microfiber. MF was clearly the winner.
Of course I was nice and calm for the test having just harvested.
See ya,
OO
oldone
Member
flower day 14
flower day 14
The stretch is on!
Not bad for 7 days:
Day 7...................................Day 14
The PPK wick system is working well. But all is not well in paradise...
I've got bugs in the rez. They're tiny white fuckers and I have no idea where they came from. I started to notice spots on a few leaves here and there and then noticed these approx 1mm (1/32") long bugs floating on top of the rez.
I've read a bunch of posts here and I cant decide of they're thrips or springtails. How do I tell them apart?
The bugs causing the spots are never visible.
Any advise guys?
OO
flower day 14
The stretch is on!
Not bad for 7 days:
Day 7...................................Day 14
The PPK wick system is working well. But all is not well in paradise...
I've got bugs in the rez. They're tiny white fuckers and I have no idea where they came from. I started to notice spots on a few leaves here and there and then noticed these approx 1mm (1/32") long bugs floating on top of the rez.
I've read a bunch of posts here and I cant decide of they're thrips or springtails. How do I tell them apart?
The bugs causing the spots are never visible.
Any advise guys?
OO
looken really great.
Strangely
Member
I think thrips are the more usually white ones, with springtails being the more prawny, mean looking f*ckers. Dunno which ones are worse mind you. Best of luck getting rid, i'd get as close up shots as you can of the offenders and bosh them in the infirmary forum.
Crazy busy wknd so I've not gotten my cloth down for testing yet. Although I definetly will!!
Crazy busy wknd so I've not gotten my cloth down for testing yet. Although I definetly will!!
hey, OO!
about those things in your res, they are probably immature springtails.
do they move with a "jackknife" motion when disturbed?
do they show sensitivity to light?
you should have adults moving around on the floor.
juvenile thrips are very difficult to see without a 10x loupe. and i have never found one in a res.
thrips produce a "stippling" effect on leaves and are usually found on the aerial parts of the plant.
thrips can destroy a crop if left unchecked whereas springtails do little damage.
thrips have to be systematically destroyed with pesticides like spinosad, pyrethrins, and neem.
springtails are eliminated by depriving them of habitat, such as an open res or wet floor. they have to have moisture.
thrips can live entirely on the moisture they get from leaves.
your plant is looking good!
later, d9
about those things in your res, they are probably immature springtails.
do they move with a "jackknife" motion when disturbed?
do they show sensitivity to light?
you should have adults moving around on the floor.
juvenile thrips are very difficult to see without a 10x loupe. and i have never found one in a res.
thrips produce a "stippling" effect on leaves and are usually found on the aerial parts of the plant.
thrips can destroy a crop if left unchecked whereas springtails do little damage.
thrips have to be systematically destroyed with pesticides like spinosad, pyrethrins, and neem.
springtails are eliminated by depriving them of habitat, such as an open res or wet floor. they have to have moisture.
thrips can live entirely on the moisture they get from leaves.
your plant is looking good!
later, d9
oldone
Member
Thanks for the kind words guys...
Hi D9,
Yes the do have a jacknife motion, but also can jump very fast. Dont know what to look for for light sensitivity.
I think I know how they got in there. My better half used my transfer bucket outside and left it there for a few days. I found it later in the house and none the wiser used it top off the PPK and refill the bulk rez. I suddenly saw this small white cluster of dots on the surface and thought it was dust. A few days later I noticed the "dust" darting around the surface. I took a sample and have been watching them ever since.
I'm thinking I got a colony of larvae all at once. It doesn't explain the leaf spots, but they are very sparse. Anyway I think they are dying off, at least in my sample. I'll have a better idea tonight when I can take a good look.
Thanks for the info.
Been a busy weekend for me too...,
OO
Hi D9,
Yes the do have a jacknife motion, but also can jump very fast. Dont know what to look for for light sensitivity.
I think I know how they got in there. My better half used my transfer bucket outside and left it there for a few days. I found it later in the house and none the wiser used it top off the PPK and refill the bulk rez. I suddenly saw this small white cluster of dots on the surface and thought it was dust. A few days later I noticed the "dust" darting around the surface. I took a sample and have been watching them ever since.
I'm thinking I got a colony of larvae all at once. It doesn't explain the leaf spots, but they are very sparse. Anyway I think they are dying off, at least in my sample. I'll have a better idea tonight when I can take a good look.
Thanks for the info.
Been a busy weekend for me too...,
OO
