Off the shelf retail store screw-in LED and CFL bulb comparisons

[Chloemobile]

I haven't been around ICMag much in a while. But this thread sure did catch my eye. I have been wondering about those LED bulbs for a while. This is a very intriguing possibility for my CFL micro-SOG. I can't wait to see more about this and I may very well replace some CFLs or add some of these to my farm or something. Really, really interesting stuff.

Blynx - As always, thank you so much for the micro experiments that you run. What have you noticed about heat output from the LED bulbs compared to the CFLs? Please keep us posted on this test and any ongoing tests with these sorts of LED bulbs. I don't want to go so far as to say this could be a game changer for us micro folks, but...

Terpene - What types of bulbs did you get? You said they were 16.5w. What was the Lumens and Kelvin on them? It looks like you removed the bulb part, correct? What have you noticed about heat output from the LED bulbs?

For someone like me on a budget who isn't an elictrical engineer or ready to learn to solder to start COB'ing together DIY LEDs, this may be a great evolution in micro.

Happy farming, stay safe.
Tex

Great to see you around again Tex! I think the LEDs would not be ideal for your SOG, personally. I could be wrong but I think your lower buds would really suffer due the the nature of light direction of the LED. My experience so far has been that grows that maintain an even canopy such as scrog or super cropping to the point the canopy is mostly level are the type of grows that do well with LED. .

 

[TexMex McDirt]

Hey Chloemobile. Good to see you too. In my CFL setup now the lower buds are pretty much LARF as it is. From looking at the Lumens/Lux/Penetration light meter numbers that Blynx and Terpene put up, it look like the LED bulbs might easily be as much as twice as strong as the 40w CFLs I run in flower at 12" below source. Not going to completely redo my setup this afternoon or anything, but I sure am going to keep my eye on this type of thing. Also, if the LED bulbs put out even a bit less heat that helps in the summer months. So there's that too.

BTW... Still rockin' my clones in the CWCCC (Chloemobile Water Cooler Cloning Chamber) with great continued success!

Cheers mate!
Tex

 

[Chloemobile]

I am certainly intrigued by the light readings too! I guess the best way to describe the nuance I am describing about the LEDs is hat if I put my finger in front of a CFL the bulb is large enough that light shines around my finger. If I put my finger in front of an led the light from that led is completely blocked with nothing shining around it. So apply the same concept to fan leaves. Once there are enough fan leaves at the top of the canopy they completely block the light of the LED. As you said, you experience this with CFL's too and your current larf situation but I think the effect is more pronounced since the light source of each individual LED is so small. This may be due to the type of LED's I have used in the past, though. Large 3w diodes spaced an inch or so apart vs what we are discussing, the smaller wattage packed tightly together. Both terpene and blynx setup look awesome and more than promising I am also glad you are still using the CWCCC and that you are consistently able to clone well! Are you keeping a journal/log going? Would love to see how the farm is going!!


Blynx- I know you typically keep a nice canopy regardless but do you feel there was a little extra accomodation that had to be made with the LED's this time around?

 

[blynx]

Here's the 23w LED

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[blynx]

Here's the measurements for the 23w LED (readings are at 100x scale)

Measurement at 12"

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Measurement at 6"

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front view at 6"

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Measurement at 9"

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front view at 9"

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[blynx]

Here's the 23w LED with it's lens removed

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[blynx]

Let's see how this LED does with it's lens removed (readings are at 100x scale)

Measurement at 12"

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Measurement 12" over

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Measurement at 6"

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Measurement at 9"

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front view at 9"

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I did leave the reflector on this fixture.

The light might be slightly lower in my LED test grow with these because I removed the reflector on the ones I'm using.

 

[exploziv]

great work, blynx.
but i have a question. i may be too high, but i fail to see why measurements at 9'' are higher than the ones at 6''. Is it a mistake and you measured closer than 9'', or I'm failing to see something?

 

[blynx]

great work, blynx.
but i have a question. i may be too high, but i fail to see why measurements at 9'' are higher than the ones at 6''. Is it a mistake and you measured closer than 9'', or I'm failing to see something?

These are heights.

From the 1st post in this thread

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I will be putting the meter directly under the light and measuring at 12". I will then measure 12" to the side at 12" height.

The next measurement will be at 6" height and the last measurement at 9" height.

This means the light source will roughly be about 11" from the meter, 5" from the meter and 2" from the meter.

Really the heights don't matter as long as all the measurements for all the lights are taken at the same heights.

Might be a little convoluted but really the heights are not relevant. It's that they were all measured at the same distance. I guess I could have called them distance 1 , 2 & 3

 

[blynx]

Some misc thoughts.

The heat from these LEDs is less than a CFL. Both CFL and LED ballast part of the bulb get hot, but the surface of the LED doesn't really put out heat like the coiled glass of a CFL does. A fan blowing on the lights does help lower the ballast temp.

While a CFL does throw light all around and you can even make a reflector to increase the light going toward the canopy, the LEDs still appear to have a brighter cone of light shining down than the CFL does.

This is why I did the 12" over measurment. If the LED is as directed as people seem to think, then the measurements of the CFL should have been higher than the LED when measured 12" over, but they weren't. The LED put out more lux at 12" over than the CFL did.

I didn't do any more canopy management with LEDs than I do with CFLs.

When growing with CFLs and the plant gets real close to the light, I've noticed leaves/buds can burn brown from the heat coming off the glass of the CFL. The buds grow airier/spindlier/thinner and the buds may appear to never 'finish' because they keep putting new spiky white hair/calyx growth.

With the 23w LEDs, I noticed the leaves can get a closer to the LED without any brown burning from heat. The individual LEDs in the bulb are spread out a little so they don't appear to overwhelm the plants like a larger LED surface such as a COB might do. The individual LEDs in the 10w LEDs are closer together, so the light is a little more directed and I did see some slight bleaching on some small upper fans that stick out of the top colas.

I'll be posting some daylight CFL and LEDs and brightwhite LED, then I'll start posting the two grows I'm planning with some of these 10w LEDs.

 

[MicroRoy]

Thank you blynx

 

[ReikoX]

Blynx, great work as usual. After seeing you put these in your cab, I decided to look for them. I found some 21.5W recessed kits on sale for $16.99 for a two pack. I picked up two for my next project.


I removed the lense and cut down the reflector with a Dremel tool.


Here you see how I plan to use them. They are recessed into this top box. A 120mm fan pushes air into the box and the heat is vented out the back.

Thank you, your work has inspired me a great deal on this last build. What you're doing truly is a service to the ICMag community.

 

[Terpene]

There's not really a need to train a fan on the screw in LEDs. I can wrap my hand around the bases for 10-15 seconds before discomfort, where a 23w CFL is about 3-5 seconds before discomfort sets in.

Like I said before, overall heat output is about 60-70% of what CFLs put out. My 4W x 4T x 2D cab has (2) 4" computer fans exhausting the cab and is about 1.5-2 degrees F over ambient temps. By comparison, my 2W x 2T x 2D small veg with the same ventilation and (4) 23w CFLs is about 3.5-4.5 degrees F over ambient.

For giggles, here's a breakdown of the Blackstar 240w vs 16w LED.

240w Blackstar LED
.5" - 2000+
1" - 2000+
3" - 2000+
6" - 2000
12" - 1000

16w LED
.5" - 2000+
1" - 2000+
3" - 2000
6" - 1000
12" - 500

 

[blynx]

Here's a 14w Daylight (5000k) CFL

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[blynx]

Here's the measurements for the 14w Daylight (5000k) CFL (measurements at 100x scale)

Measurement at 12"

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Measurement 12" over

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Measurement at 6"

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Measurement at 9"

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Front view

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[blynx]

Here's the 10w Daylight (5000k) LED

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[blynx]

Here's the measurements for the 10w Daylight (5000k) LED (measurements at 100x scale)

Measurement at 12"

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Measurement 12" over

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Measurement at 6"

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Measurement at 9"

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Front view

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[blynx]

Let's get the lens removed from this ligh

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[blynx]

Here's the measurements for the 10w Daylight (5000k) LED with it's lens removed (measurements at 100x scale)

Measurement at 12"

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Measurement 12" over

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Measurement at 6"

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Measurement at 9"

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Front view

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[blynx]

Here's a 10w Bright White (3000k) LED

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