Off the shelf retail store screw-in LED and CFL bulb comparisons

[Terpene]

Blynxy, I love you.

My IP66 LED panels went out! First the 30w, then the 50w. It appears that while they are rated for 50k hours, they only last about 9 months. Never going down that road again...

So I did some quick work to rig up a CFL spider for the tiny veg area, and then I took your advice and went to Lowes. They have 100w replacement (16.5w) LEDs for about 6 bucks each. I picked up 6 of them and some flush sockets for testing.

They're VERY bright. Easily beats every lighting array I've built.

Here's how they stack up next to the one remaining 50w LED panel. Theres no comparison, I'd say the screw ins make about 50% more light.

Here's my CFL array in flower, was (9) 23w CFLs, now is (7) 16w LEDs - and way brighter / better penetration.

THANK YOU BLYNX!

 

[HuffnPufferfish]

cool terpine

 

[dr-dank]

so does anyone have concerns about PAR/lack of full spectrum? Does these have all a veg plant needs?

 

[HuffnPufferfish]

lack? i did one plant under 10w led for the first 4 weeks, and it was one hell of a low bushy branchy plant, better than 4 fluor bars if you ask me

white light IS 'ful spectrum'

 

[Terpene]

so does anyone have concerns about PAR/lack of full spectrum? Does these have all a veg plant needs?

Initially when I started growing with 3000k CFLs (and later 2700k LEDs) I was worried that there might be some reason that they run red/blue bulbs.

The reality is that plants perform better under lights that are the ideal red/blue spectrum, but you get about 80-90% of the same growth with normal household lighting spectrums. What really matters is light intensity. The more intense the light you're pounding the leaves with, the better the plants do.

 

[krood]

This is awesome, tempted to go get some of my own led bulbs for my veg cab. I always wondered about these and if they would actually work, i assumed that they wouldnt be powerful enough. Keep up the good work.

 

[Jellyfish]

Initially when I started growing with 3000k CFLs (and later 2700k LEDs) I was worried that there might be some reason that they run red/blue bulbs.

The reality is that plants perform better under lights that are the ideal red/blue spectrum, but you get about 80-90% of the same growth with normal household lighting spectrums. What really matters is light intensity. The more intense the light you're pounding the leaves with, the better the plants do.

You can also mix a couple kinds of CFL's together and get pretty close to the ideal spectrum for cannabis.

 

[Chloemobile]

I saw some Phillips 14.5w 100 watt replacements 1500 lumens at HD for 8 bucks. They are only 3 inches long and 2 inches in diameter. Can easily stick a bunch in a small area. I need to look for those 6 dollar bulbs though.

 

[Azure]

I saw some Phillips 14.5w 100 watt replacements 1500 lumens at HD for 8 bucks. They are only 3 inches long and 2 inches in diameter. Can easily stick a bunch in a small area. I need to look for those 6 dollar bulbs though.

14.5w 1500 lumen led for 8 bucks seems like a good deal.
My area Walmart was selling a single GE 17w 1600 lumen led for $14 and they were also selling a 2 pack of GE 11w 800 lumen for $4.64.

(assuming prices are the same)
24 bucks at HD gets you 4,500 lumens for three 14.5w Phillips.
28 bucks at Walmart gets you 3,200 lumens for two 17w GE.
24 bucks at Walmart gets you 8,000 lumens for ten 11w GE.

Blynx,
Does the higher wattage LED have deeper penetration or is it the total amount of lumens we should focus on?
Is 8,000 LED lumens enough light for a small single plant?

 

[HuffnPufferfish]

imo no led (or light even) has enough "penetration" to shine down to the medium, and they shouldnt

you get the "penetration" from having multiple leds on different spots so light comes in from different angles and thus reaches lower branches

the hardest thing on leds is covering the whole plant/room with lights

 

[grouchy]

imo no led (or light even) has enough "penetration" to shine down to the medium, and they shouldnt

you get the "penetration" from having multiple leds on different spots so light comes in from different angles and thus reaches lower branches

the hardest thing on leds is covering the whole plant/room with lights

I would agree that the light bulb style leds don't get enough penetration, but the diy cob lights don't seem to have a problem with penetrating and covering area. Running 50w per sq ft is producing great results over on riu.

 

[blynx]

I don't understand why people are so concerned with penetration at a micro level and as the measurements show, the intensity of the light (LED) is a lot higher than the lights (CFL) this thread is comparing against. Therefore the penetration is going to be better on the LEDs than the CFLS.

Something to keep in mind.

If you need to get light in a micro grow down 2 or 3 feet, I would question what you are trying to light up as most plants I've grown have the majority of the buds up at the canopy level. 3 ft down isn't the most efficient method with CFLs or LEDs unless you are running a PLL that drops down a couple feet or if you line the walls with lights. I wouldn't try penetrating 3 ft with a 400 or 600w HID, you are going to get larf at that distance.

If you have a full canopy, no lights, not even HID, really 'penetrates' below that canopy.

If you aren't trying to make a full canopy and you grow a more branchy strain, these LED lights will provide more light farther down than a CFL will.

When it comes to spectrum, my logic was this.

We grow bud under 2700k CFL lights. These are 2700K LED lights. I would think 2700k means a specific thing and both have to conform to the specs that would allow them to sell/market a light as 2700k, ie the light coming off both bulbs should basically be the same.

 

[ReikoX]

Blynx hit the nail on the head. These are great for a micro grow. They are competitive in price (finally) with CFL, and should be a viable replacement. In a micro environment we are using techniques to minimize height and provide an even canopy (LST, ScrOG, FIM, etc). With these techniques penetration isn't an issue.

 

[dr-dank]

Thanks for the thoughts on spectrum.

I now have a micro tub setup with two mogul based 110 W CFL. Veg spectrum.

https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/FLC125W

They eat a lot of my upper tub's vertical space. Seems I could replace with a cluster of these led bulbs and maybe save some heat also.

Pondering....

Regards

 

[Terpene]

I am in the same boat as Blynx. LEDs are going to have an effective range of about 10-16 inches off the bulb, which is a pretty substantial improvement over the typical CFL 3-6 inches off the bulb.

Your lights should light your canopy, not your medium. In a small space I would imagine that anyone is trying to maximize their yields and space used and is using LST / Scrog techniques, but I doubt that penetration would be an issue based on the numbers below.

As a heads up comparison with my ghetto, Hold-All swing style light meter, I get:

23w CFL
.5" - 1400
1" - 700
3" - 350
6" - 175
12" - 80

16.5w LED
.5" - 2000+
1" - 2000+
3" - 2000
6" - 1000
12" - 500

As a reference, with my light meter I've found 300ish to be minimum acceptable light for veg, and about 600ish as a minimum for flower. I shoot for 400-500 for veg and 1k for flower as optimal numbers. When I step outside with this meter, a 100F day at noon in July is 2000+ on the meter, 1000-1200 is bright shade on the same day / same time.

Since we've all vegged and flowered 3-6 inches from CFLs, the screw in LEDs will extend light penetration / coverage to areas twice as far away. You may even be able to get 3x-4x as far from the bulb - but at 24inches, the LEDs show 250, which I consider to be slightly below minimum acceptable veg light.

For those wondering, my screw in LED veg setup now is at 1500-1700 at the canopy now. Flowering is at roughly the same numbers. My 240w Blackstar is around 900-1100 at the canopy - now the pink side of the room is too dim.

 

[TexMex McDirt]

I haven't been around ICMag much in a while. But this thread sure did catch my eye. I have been wondering about those LED bulbs for a while. This is a very intriguing possibility for my CFL micro-SOG. I can't wait to see more about this and I may very well replace some CFLs or add some of these to my farm or something. Really, really interesting stuff.

Blynx - As always, thank you so much for the micro experiments that you run. What have you noticed about heat output from the LED bulbs compared to the CFLs? Please keep us posted on this test and any ongoing tests with these sorts of LED bulbs. I don't want to go so far as to say this could be a game changer for us micro folks, but...

Terpene - What types of bulbs did you get? You said they were 16.5w. What was the Lumens and Kelvin on them? It looks like you removed the bulb part, correct? What have you noticed about heat output from the LED bulbs?

For someone like me on a budget who isn't an elictrical engineer or ready to learn to solder to start COB'ing together DIY LEDs, this may be a great evolution in micro.

Happy farming, stay safe.
Tex

 

[Terpene]

Terpene - What types of bulbs did you get? You said they were 16.5w. What was the Lumens and Kelvin on them? It looks like you removed the bulb part, correct? What have you noticed about heat output from the LED bulbs?

Here's the link to the Utilitech 16-Watt (100W Equivalent) 3,000K A19 Medium Base (E-26) Warm White LED bulbs at Lowes. http://www.lowes.com/pd_661571-75774-LA1600830LEDG2_0__?productId=50393670

I did indeed remove the plastic cover using an air powered rotational cutter (dremels work too). Heat output is about 70% of what a 23w CFL puts out. You can wrap your hand around them while they're running for about 10-15 seconds, but they are quite warm.

 

[HuffnPufferfish]

Use a fan (small pc fan) blowing over the base of the bulbs, heat lowers their efficiency by a lot

 

[HuffnPufferfish]

most protective covers i could just pop off with a flat screwdriver, its just silicon glue holding it

 

[grouchy]

Popping the chips out and lengthening the wires could allow you to remove the ballast from the grow area and mount the chips on a shallow heatsink easily.