Off-grid/sustainable/self-sufficient living?

[ghostmade]

they got these generator that can run on any oil, used motor oil any number of veggi oils,fats u name.and its build like a shit brick house.
ill looks it up in my notes,
I think biofuels and wind, solar, hydro, and like the above hydrogen fuel cells must be used together.
but how about batteries? they need a major revamp over everything else.like 50 100 times more cycle life.good deep cells only last 5-6 befor there not really good no more(efficient)
hopefully these new ceramics get sum where. idk I am still doing major research on this subject but im leaning towards a on demand type system. i.e oil based fuel generator.would be nice to have a good battery bank though sumthing along the lines of 1-2 weeks without a current input.idk where the links folks?!!?lol

 

[bentom187]

here is another winner IMO.

http://www.permies.com/

why permaculture folks love comfrey
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[frito bandito]

I've been totally off the grid for about 6 weeks now.....no power at all....lol. A couple weeks into it I got a 68W solar panel and charge controller to use with a regular car battery and a $40 power inverter from Wal Mart. The good thing about solar is you don't have to do it all at once; you can start off with a single panel and build up from there, and just upgrade the individual components as funds allow.

It is amazing how many different things can be run off this setup; just about any kind of small hand tool, laptop computer, CFL lights, etc, no problem. And all for FREE, basically. I paid up front, and now I get to reap the benefits for years. The solar panel + charge controller should last decades. The non-deep-cycle battery isn't ideal for off grid use but it's a quality unit and with few or no deep discharges it will last many years. A deep cycle battery can easily last 10+ years if it's a GOOD QUALITY one. If the cheap Wal Mart inverter fails oh well, but it will probably last until well after I've upgrade to a bigger and better unit.

Right now I am working on installing a single cylinder Lister diesel generator to handle my base load power needs. The basic engine has 6 HP and will supply around 3500 watts continuous. At full load it uses around 1 quart of fuel per hour and can be run off basically anything, diesel, kerosene, gasoline (mixed w/ oil), waste veg oil or motor oil, etc, as long as it burns and has sufficient lubrication. These motors run at much slower speed than your typical diesel genset (650 rpm vs 1800) which makes them much quieter and more durable. They are designed to run for decades on end with minimal maintenance. The big heavy flywheels allow the engine to start heavy loads (refrigerator, dish washer, vacuum, etc) with ease. I am running mine at 850 RPM which will produce about 8.5 HP or around 4500-5000 watts continuous. I may switch to a twin cylinder engine later (24 HP, 13kW continuous) or turbocharge this one.

Yes it does take a lot of up front expense to go off the grid while making enough power to support your grow, but it's absolutely worth it. You will certainly learn new habits to save power and fuel and that will reduce the expense somewhat. The best thing about generating my own power is that I will never have to worry again about power outage; I can save up a 90+ day supply of fuel and all the spare parts I could possibly need, and even if shit totally hits the fan and power goes out for weeks, my grow and my home will continue humming right along in comfort for as long as needed. I really like the idea of being directly responsible for my power generation and usage and thus having control over the whole process of growing from top to bottom.

 

[frito bandito]

If you want a good book on lead-acid batteries (car batteries, deep cycle, etc) read this one written back in 1922 which tells you everything you need to know about them. The only downside to lead batteries is their weight, and the potential toxicity; otherwise they are great batteries. If the Shit Hits the Fan, with the knowledge contained in this book you could easily build your OWN batteries. It is not rocket science and any decent craftsman could do it if needed.

http://www.zetatalk.com/energy/Rebuilding%20Lead-Acid%20Batteries%201922-Witte.pdf

 

[soursmoker]

Awesome, glad I started this thread! Awesome to see some are already living the dream! I have lots of reading to do and I appreciate everything that has been posted!

keep the info coming!

 

[ronbo51]

I lived off the grid for 4 years in Maine starting in 1981. It was before solar, LED's, lithium, any of the neat stuff that you can get nowadays, including the internet. I lived in a tipi made by Nomadics Tipi Makers, who are still around. I think I payed 800 dollars for a 22'. We had creek and a spring. That first summer we gardened and canned and built a cabin. We had goats and chickens and sheep. My wife spun and had a loom. We cut a winter's worth of firewood, built stone walls, logging roads, outbuildings. We used candles and kerosene lamps at night and sat around eating home made hand cranked ice cream listening to A Prairie Home Companion on the small radio. The bugs were awful. No seeum's, mosquitos,black flies,deer flies, moose flies. In the fall we bought 100lb bags of potatoes for 5 bucks, along with hubbard and acorn squash, and the best cider in the world, fresh pressed from hard sweet cold New England fall night apples which we gathered from abandoned orchards that were everywhere and took down the road to a couple that ran an old wooden cider press. I made beer and grew pot. I had been given seeds that originally came from Afghanistan and it made some righteous headbanging purple goodness that immediately became legendary in the community. There were hundreds of couples and families throughout northern New England that had bugged out like we did and food coops and organic farms were everywhere. The Common Ground Country Fair was 2 towns over. Johnnys Selected Seeds was 12 miles away. The support system was immense. A lot of good people went through it and raised some very unique kids. It was the golden era in the back to the land movement. I got to meet Helen and Scott Nearing, and their protoge Eliot Coleman, who has several books on how to grow greens year round in harsh northern climates. I was a carpenter and got to work on hundreds of old farmhouses as well as grand ship captains homes in Camden, Bar Harbor, and the islands off shore. We finally broke down and had power run. Our first bill was 3 dollars. I think we had a few lights and a new upgraded radio and and some gadgets. But there was always a fire in the wood cookstove in the kitchen with a pot of beans and a big pot of hot water. In 1985 I did a remodel of a house that they were rushing to buy some hot water solar panels before the tax credit ran out. Back then photovoltaics were way out of reach and not practical but people did install some hot water systems. Ten years later all those hot water panels started hitting the market and you could buy beautiful copper and aluminum water panels for a hundred bucks, basically scrap prices. I cobbled my hot water system from different pieces and parts but I eventually had a really good drainback system with 10 4x8 panels all falling into a 250 gallon watertank. I hooked the wood stove into the loop and since we had a fire going from October to May we always had plenty of hot water to run through the floors and have 100 degree floors even when the temperature fell to 20 below.
The whole deal with living off the grid is to adapt your life to what you have. You can spend oodles of money and buy every modern device with a battery charger and try and make it as much like on grid living as you can. Or you can let go of all that stuff and see how little you need and try and get real basic. Thats what I did.

 

[yortbogey]

 

[anonymousgrow]

This is great, becoming a good source of info. A buddy has a 20k watt grow shed set up all solar, hella sweet. But i think it cost him a lot to set up.

 

[bentom187]

View Image

I want people to go solar but not by stealing. that goes for war too this is why our founders where against a standing army.they knew they could be used for the horrible ends, of criminals and most dangerous of all the banks.

The Philosophy of Liberty: Plunder
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utopia based on theft and scarce resources = fail. but it will get votes for the politicians and that power broker position is the only thing they care about, not weather it works out in the long run or not.

this is what happens when you let thieves and vile criminals with no morals make decisions for us.

UN/NWO AGENDA 21 IN NEWTOWN
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[ghostmade]

man thank you for surefire woodsmans .you know who you are! luv that dude dose make anybody else on youtube a camper
when I get sum scratch im buy dvds and hopefully someof his gear

 

[barnyard]

"Fuel cells could provide a vital source of power for off-grid communities and cities experiencing hurricanes and thunderstorms – but existing units are expensive, massive, and they tend to run extremely hot. That’s why Redox‘s solid oxide fuel cell is such a breakthrough. The powerful fuel cell is about the size of a dishwasher, and it’s expected to cost 90% less than other units currently on the market.

Known as “The Cube,” the Redox PowerSERG 2-80 is about the size of a dishwasher, which is 90% smaller than most other generators out there. The company also says that it can run at 1/10th the cost of other generators. The Cube can be fueled by natural gas, propane, biomass or diesel, and is clean and reliable during operation.

Redox partnered last year with researchers at the University of Maryland (including solid oxide fuel cell technology whiz Eric Wachsman) to commercialize the technology, which should be ready to hit the market by 2014. Once it does, The Cube will provide reliable, safe, locally generated power that can even be taken off-grid. Each generator provides enough power to run a small store or gas station. When used to provide both power and heat, it runs at 80-percent efficiency. It’s a great way to ensure that important energy needs are not compromised by an unreliable power grid."

from:
http://inhabitat.com/redox-set-to-l...-cells-for-90-less-than-current-technologies/

 

[DrBudGreengenes]

solar power is down to about $1 per watt, not including batteries. so $4k to setup 4kW grow on solar power.

also, check out a guy who calls himself Surefire Woodsman on youtube, he makes most preppers and survivalists look like day hikers!

So MrRed Thumb...when using Solar as your Power source...one would need 6K in Solar output X's 14 hours to begin to run a 4K HID set-up...since most citys Avg 5 hours of usable power per day.....as you can see below...that being said our 6K in Panels....just became 18K in panels...to run a 4 K set up...more like 20K so we have power for fans...and them...we must think about the A/C needs....so as you can see Solar Growing is best Done Outside​

State, City Summer Avg. Winter Avg. Year Avg.
AL, Montgomery 4.69 3.37 4.23
AK, Bethel 6.29 2.37 3.81
AK, Fairbanks 5.87 2.12 3.99
AK, Mantanuska 5.24 1.74 3.55
AZ, Page 7.3 5.65 6.36
AZ, Phoenix 7.13 5.78 6.58
AZ, Tucson 7.42 6.01 6.57
AR, Little Rock 5.29 3.88 4.69
CA, Davis 6.09 3.31 5.1
CA, Fresno 6.19 3.42 5.38
CA, Inyokem 8.7 6.97 7.66
CA, La Jolla 5.24 4.29 4.77
CA, Los Angeles 6.14 5.03 5.62
CA, Riverside 6.35 5.35 5.87
CA, Santa Maria 6.52 5.42 5.94
CA, Soda Springs 6.47 4.4 5.6
CO, Boulder 5.72 4.44 4.87
CO, Granby 7.47 5.15 5.69
CO, Grand Junction 6.34 5.23 5.86
CO, Grand Lake 5.86 3.56 5.08
D. C. Washington 4.69 3.37 4.23
FL, Apalachicola 5.98 4.92 5.49
FL, Belle Island 5.31 4.58 4.99
FL, Gainesville 5.81 4.71 5.27
FL, Miami 6.26 5.05 5.62
FL, Tampa 6.16 5.26 5.67
GA, Atlanta 5.16 4.09 4.74
GA, Griffin 5.41 4.26 4.99
HI, Honolulu 6.71 5.59 6.02
IA, Ames 4.8 3.73 4.4
ID, Twin Falls 5.42 3.41 4.7
ID, Boise 5.83 3.33 4.92
IL, Chicago 4.08 1.47 3.14
IN, Indianapolis 5.02 2.55 4.21
KS, Dodge City 4.14 5.28 5.79
KS, Manhattan 5.08 3.62 4.57
KY, Lexington 5.97 3.6 4.94
LA, Lake Charles 5.73 4.29 4.93
LA, New Orleans 5.71 3.63 4.92
LA, Shreveport 4.99 3.87 4.63
MA, Blue Hill 4.38 3.33 4.05
MA, Boston 4.27 2.99 3.84
MA, E. Wareham 4.48 3.06 3.99
MA, Lynn 4.6 2.33 3.79
MA, Natick 4.62 3.09 4.1
MD, Silver Hill 4.71 3.84 4.47
ME, Caribou 5.62 2.57 4.19
ME, Portland 5.2 3.56 4.51
MI, E. Lansing 4.71 2.7 4
MI, Sault Ste. Marie 4.83 2.33 4.2
MN, St. Cloud 5.43 3.53 4.53
MO, Columbia 5.5 3.97 4.73
MO, St. Louis 4.87 3.24 3.78
MS, Meridian 4.86 3.64 4.44
MT, Glasgow 5.97 4.09 5.15
MT, Great Falls 5.7 3.66 4.93
MT, Summit 5.17 2.36 3.99
NC, Cape Hatteras 5.81 4.69 5.31
NC, Greensboro 5.05 4 4.71
ND, Bismark 5.48 3.97 5.01
NE, Lincoln 5.4 4.38 4.79
NE, North Omaha 5.28 4.26 4.9
NJ, Sea Brook 4.76 3.2 4.21
NM, Albuquerque 7.16 6.21 6.77
NV, Ely 6.48 5.49 5.98
NV, Las Vegas 7.13 5.83 6.41
NY, Bridge Hampton 3.93 1.62 3.16
NY, Ithaca 4.57 2.29 3.79
NY, New York 4.97 3.03 4.08
NY, Rochester 4.22 1.58 3.31
NY, Schenectady 3.92 2.53 3.55
OH, Cleveland 4.79 2.69 3.94
OH, Columbus 5.26 2.66 4.15
OK, Oklahoma City 6.26 4.98 5.59
OK, Stillwater 5.52 4.22 4.99
OR, Astoria 4.76 1.99 3.72
OR, Corvallis 5.71 1.9 4.03
OR, Medford 5.84 2.02 4.51
PA, Pittsburgh 4.19 1.45 3.28
PA, State College 4.44 2.78 3.91
RI, Newport 4.69 3.58 4.23
SC, Charleston 5.72 4.23 5.06
SD, Rapid City 5.91 4.56 5.23
TN, Nashville 5.2 3.14 4.45
TN, Oak Ridge 5.06 3.22 4.37
TX, Brownsville 5.49 4.42 4.92
TX, El Paso 7.42 5.87 6.72
TX, Fort Worth 6 4.8 5.83
TX, Midland 6.33 5.23 5.83
TX, San Antonio 5.88 4.65 5.3
UT, Flaming Gorge 6.63 5.48 5.83
UT, Salt Lake City 6.09 3.78 5.26
VA, Richmond 4.5 3.37 4.13
WA, Prosser 6.21 3.06 5.03
WA, Pullman 6.07 2.9 4.73
WA, Richland 6.13 2.01 4.43
WA, Seattle 4.83 1.6 3.57
WA, Spokane 5.53 1.16 4.48
WV, Charleston 4.12 2.47 3.65
WI, Madison 4.85 3.28 4.29
WY, Lander 6.81 5.5 6.06

Province, City
Alberta, Edmonton 4.95 2.13 3.75
Alberta, Suffield 5.19 2.75 4.1
British Columbia, Kamloops 4.48 1.46 3.29
British Columbia, Prince George 4.13 1.33 3.14
British Columbia, Vancouver 4.23 1.33 3.14
Manitoba, The Pas 5.02 2.02 3.56
Manitoba, Winnipeg New Brunswick 5.23 2.77 4.02
Fredericton 4.23 2.54 3.56
Newfoundland, Goose Bay 4.65 2.02 3.33
Newfoundland, St. Johns 3.89 1.83 3.15
Northwest Territory, Fort Smith 5.16 0.88 3.29
Northwest Territory, Norman Wells 5.04 0.06 2.89
Nova Scotia, Halifax 4.02 2.16 3.38
Ontario, Ottawa 4.63 2.35 3.7
Ontario, Toronto 3.98 2.13 3.44
Prince Edward Isl., Charlottetown 4.31 2.29 3.56
Quebec, Montreal 4.21 2.29 3.5
Quebec, Sept-Isles 4.29 2.33 3.5
Saskatchewan, Swift Current 5.25 2.77 4.23
Yukon, Whitehorse 4.81 0.69 3.1

 

[DrBudGreengenes]

This is great, becoming a good source of info. A buddy has a 20k watt grow shed set up all solar, hella sweet. But i think it cost him a lot to set up.

20K powered by Solar?
does he have 1/2A of panels? (largest Panels I know of are 280 watt @ a cost of $315.00)
20K/280 watts is 72 Panels @ a cost of $22.680
but to run a 20K flowering opp one would need 4X's that many Panels..so now cost for panels alone is..$90,720 B4 tax

and a 12x20 Battery Building? one would need 40-60 Trojan L-16's to run this...cost for that w/o wiring is $22,500
and what kind of Inverter is he using...everyone I have tried KILLS HID Ballasts?

if this is true....a 20K system cost about 1200.00 a month in Power bill....so he could power said grow for about 94 months...for what he invested in Solar...and I will add also he will need to replace those Batteries every 3-5 yrs w/use like that ​

 

[floralheart]

solar power is down to about $1 per watt, not including batteries. so $4k to setup 4kW grow on solar power.

also, check out a guy who calls himself Surefire Woodsman on youtube, he makes most preppers and survivalists look like day hikers!

That'll probably be the first guy to die, lol. An asteroid will just straight up fuck him up.

edit: I looked into to solar. I think I was looking at between $15k and $30k for a 7.5 kw system and electric heated floors and water.

 

[floralheart]

So MrRed Thumb...when using Solar as your Power source...one would need 6K in Solar output X's 14 hours to begin to run a 4K HID set-up...since most citys Avg 5 hours of usable power per day.....as you can see below...that being said our 6K in Panels....just became 18K in panels...to run a 4 K set up...more like 20K so we have power for fans...and them...we must think about the A/C needs....so as you can see Solar Growing is best Done Outside​

I agree, just build a garage and stack it full of skylights. Sealed, secure, odor free Greenhouse. Probably would cost less than the system, and yield way more, less times per year, way bigger plants. You'd just need power for heating and cooling and filtering air, pumps, etc.

 

[frito bandito]

Your math is wrong DrBud. I don't know where you got the idea that Alabama only gets 5 hours of sunlight per day, but it's wrong. I don't think you really thought things through from a real world perspective before posting up that bullshit chart. Even on a cloudy day a solar panel will still be putting out a good deal of power. No way in hell do you need 80kW of solar panels to power a 20kW grow. 30-40kW will do the trick in most locales. Not all of us live in Seattle. Even here in northern Michigan there is plenty of sunlight most days in summer AND winter. The only trouble in winter is snow accumulation, but there are ways around that.

 

[Sat X RB]

the Wife and I live with stand-alone Solar. we use only 900 watts per day including 12v refrigeration. have to turn the generator on to use power tools tho'.

hydroelectricity would be the go if land beside a permanent powerful creek was affordable. but like said above with solar batteries are the expensive part. can't see how to afford a system big enuf for grow lights. unless too small a grow to produce all year dope supply.

growing own food too difficult. need good soil, dependable rainfall, lotsa raw materials for compost (implies running small truck) and ability to work hard for a few hours a day.

getting old now ...

 

[supermanlives]

too much work getting to old for that shit . did it as a kid in maine for a while.i am just happy being able to be in a area to hunt again. time for a new freezer.

 

[supermanlives]

anyone using a gassifyier sp ? it uses wood chips to make a flammable gas to run an engine or generator/. old school technology. the quail here are teasing me . when the season opens I am taking them out .

 

[Stoner4Life]

I never read Dr Buds 12V grow threads but as a big fan of RVing I know the awesomeness & limits of living off 12V systems.


the best batteries will cost close to $200 apiece or $300 if you wanna get crazy. you can shop down in price for lesser amp hours (AH) ratings but you sacrifice the duration of time per day your battery bank can sustain before needing to be charged again.

Use this link for good 12V Gel batteries, gel batteries give off no toxic fumes, can be mounted in any position and are 100% sealed needing no water to be added ever, really maintenance free.
https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/rv/

these are all deep cycle batteries, the best for handling a steady hi-load draw, they can be sustained with the slower trickle of solar panels etc, but should be charged routinely with a deep cycle charger, a decent one is $100 but $200 buys a Schumacher that will last forever. To run a charger like that you'll need a generator, propane is best because it stores well never losing potency, burns cleaner, carb won't clog etc.

If you're gonna actually live off a 12V system I'll suggest a high wattage genny to help with other needs like running a washer/dryer while charging batteries ~~~ why give up essentials like laundry or the option of having other high draw appliances if you'd be working doubly hard at other chores; 5,000 watts minimum imo, the Generac 6001 model has 5500 watts (6875 surge) & burns propane.

If you're only running 12V for a grow then same batteries & charging routine but the genny only needing to power a charger should be rated @ 2,000 watts, again I'll recommend propane but from a different source.

This is the finest source for all of your generator needs:
https://www.generatorsales.com/honda-generators.asp <--- DEAD LINK


This little Honda genny would power any average deep cycle charger, but won't support a household:
https://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-EU2000i-Tri-fuel.asp?page=EU2000i_Tri_Fuel<---DEAD LINK
and it uses only .206 gallons of propane per hour @ 3/4 load. A 20 pound cylinder has appx 4.3 gallons meaning you'd get 20+ hours of run time from a standard propane tank. A 20# propane refill up here is $9.99 right now during the tourist season.

This source & others nationwide will provide you with a kit to convert your current gas generator to burn propane:
https://www.carbturbo.com/ <----- alternate fuel specialists.

eBay has conversion kits also.

If you want to live off grid 100% I'd suggest a battery bank of 8-12 deep cycle batteries (joined in parallel) rated @ 90AH or more. 6Volt RV batteries can be joined in series to make 12V, find a great deal on 6V batteries and they'd be fine.

Joined in parallel like this:

If these batteries pictured above were rated @ 100AH each you'd have a total of 12V & 400AH.

So 8 batteries would be 12V & 800AH, a lot of duration. For example, a typical healthy car battery will drain appx 90 minutes after the driver forgets to turn off the headlights. These deep cycles are stronger yet, we use them on our trolling motors to pull boats through water, they have balls.

That's my opinion on deep cycle batteries & deep cycle charging. You all know of other renewable sources of adding charge to a battery bank, solar, wind & water are easily converted to 12V but again trust me when I tell you those batteries require a deep cycle charge routinely, they DO have a memory. Deep cycle = heavy draw dictates a heavy charge.

As far as whether you're going to use LED or CFL lighting is irrelevant because a decent battery bank will handle either easily if you're looking to just grow to smoke. If you want to grow and smoke and sell you'll need a substantial battery bank. The nice thing about LED or CFL is that they don't require much venting or running of a fan, fan motors draw big time. Again, going to an RV appliance site will find plenty of room fans & ventilation fans in 12V.


Off the grid cooking can be done with solar cookers costing you next to nothing to build but requiring a bit of extra cooking time, or try a Cobb Stove that runs efficiently on charcoal, you can even make your own charcoal, Google it.

https://www.cobbgrillamerica.com/ <------- this is one cool stove, burning charcoal means it can be used indoors once your briquets have ashed over, supplemental heat in the winter.


Anyone wanting to live off the grid and on a 12V system can do so w/out much sacrifice.

Go to the website below to check out all the appliances for RVs rated @ 12V. Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Target etc sells several 26"/27" LCD TVs that use a transformer to convert the power to 12V using a short/fat pin type jack that plugs into the back of the set, these TVs are not marketed @ RV users, they're just Energy Compliant w/a low draw, perfect for use with a 12V to AC inverter. About the only kitchen appliance you won't find in 12V is a microwave.
https://www.rvpartscountry.com/RVAppliances


I had a stroke a bunch of years ago & so sitting & making a long post is fairly tiring. If anyone has any questions you'd like to ask either pm me or ask here.