Oakland Pot-Growing Plan Worries Small Bud Tenders

[j242]

So do we agree to vote no on 19 YET?????????????

 

[Strainhunter]

So do we agree to vote no on 19 YET?????????????

Yet?

I think that has been pretty clear for quiet some time now.

 

[THE PABLOS]

i can't really disagree with many of your points
the american medical system is a bit of a sewer, parts of it anyways
but it is what it is, at least for the moment
i can't picture a legalization bill that is not going to infuriate many, i fear we will have to pick our poison to some degree

Agreed.

 

[2Lazy]

deleted by myself. argumentative.

 

[2Lazy]

Actually when I sit and do the math it's a bit less. But lets just say I do 5 lbs every 3 mos.. so I get 1.6 lbs/mo. not 1.

rent = $1500/mo

PG&E = $1400/mo

I produce about 800 grams of high quality A+ buds every 120 days (after cure).
Nutrients and media and planters and single use stuff like jars runs me about $60 per plant. I do 12 plants, so about $720 there.

Then rent. I'm not going to charge my entire apartment cost as rent, because my grow only needs one bedroom, so lets say the entire grow requires $1600 in "rent" that I could be getting by subleasing to someone else.

Then there is power and water. I pay a pretty low power bill at about $0.06 to $0.08 per KWH, running a 1500w (and up) room runs me about $250 for the grow.

So, 800 grams, About $2400. I guess it's about $3 per gram for my grow when I consider the cost of rent (something I hadn't done). 1 pound is 456 grams (453 technically) so that means I'd have 1.75 pounds of buds to sell at let's say $3000 per pound.

So for a $2400 investment (and a $1,500 initial setup cost) my personal garden could pull in $5250 per harvest, netting me more than a 100% return on my investment.

In business one has to spend money to make money. If I could do five 70 day grows per year (from clone), and if I were to say quadruple my setup and harvest ability, then I could make $57,000 a year spending $3 per gram to grow and selling at $6.50 per gram on the pound. That covers almost 1/2 of my total rent, 1/2 of my total power bill, and of course all the growing supplies.

$57,000 per year is more money than a lot of people make. Sure, it's not $100K, which I think everyone would like, but if you can also manage a 9 to 5 and keep the garden as a "second job" (hobby) then with job 1 salary plus job 2 earnings then there really is no concern.

Also, I want to reiterate that there are already major "wal-mart" producers of cannabis in california. Thousands of plant busts happen frequently throughout the year. The market is already flooded, I've never had a hard time getting bud in the Bay area. The hippies have it. The thugs have it. The local grocery bagger has some.

It seems like everyone has such a skewed idea on where the supply vs demand is. The supply exceeds demand, easily, already. Nothing will change once they establish a fair market value for the product.

 

[Lazyman]

2Lazy, I don't think you are making any points with either side, as your post was just an insult-riddled rant.

There ARE flaws with Prop19, and if you don't see them then you're letting your heart get in the way of your head.

Also, if you were anything bigger than a "personal grower" you'd have the same concerns as many of us, including the potential loss of income.

Or would you have us all believe that you're a commercial grower who plans on telling his family to go eat mud because you can no longer afford to feed them?

 

[2Lazy]

2Lazy, I don't think you are making any points with either side, as your post was just an insult-riddled rant.

There ARE flaws with Prop19, and if you don't see them then you're letting your heart get in the way of your head.

Also, if you were anything bigger than a "personal grower" you'd have the same concerns as many of us, including the potential loss of income.

Or would you have us all believe that you're a commercial grower who plans on telling his family to go eat mud because you can no longer afford to feed them?

I had just deleted my post, prior to reading this, because I agree. It was anger riddled.

I simply cannot agree that keeping cannabis illegal, even if it is flawed, is a step in the right direction. Legalization is the right step and if you can't see that then there isn't anything left to say.

I am not a commercial grower. I went to college. Then I went to technical school. I got some cisco certifications, CCNA, CCIE, and now I have a very well paying job that I very much like to do.

So fortunately for my family we are not subject to the current legal standing of what I use my hobby for because I educated myself and got a "real" job. Instead of spending my hard earned money as one of your clients (if you are a commercial grower in the bay area I may have even paid for and smoked your buds over the last 10 years) I now grow the medicine that mom and I use.

What would hurt my family is if Johnny Law came knocking on my door (if my med license was somehow lapsed or something) and hauling my ass away to jail.

Think of all the families who would benefit from keeping Dad around the house rather than locked up in jail. Maybe you have a hard time selling your product, but maybe you don't. Maybe you are the one making a mountain out of a mole hill expecting some terrible financial doomsday that will never come.

When I think of the hundreds of families that get to keep their growing relatives at home, and I think of your family, and maybe others who are depending on the illegality of this drug as a way of life then I wonder...

What makes your family any different than the Mexican Cartel's families? Trying to keep it illegal to keep the prices up... Sounds exactly like the WRONG thing to me.

Legalization, and this warehouse growing of the medicinal product is what I want as a grower, as a consumer, and as an employed, college educated, and rationally minded individual. I want it for security, I want it for medicinal oversight (medicine shouldn't be grown in a dank basement), and I want it because its the financially and socially responsible first step in the journey to making this plant legal again.

It's like people forget that cannabis has only been illegal for the last 85 years or so. Prior to 1930 cannabis spent oh, about 5,000 years as the numero uno plant world wide for making things like canvas and hemp. If marijuana does spend 100 years on the "do not" list then it's just a blip on total time line.

 

[CrumpleZone]

58 pounds a day! Thats what one group is planning on producing when their application is accepted. How many mom's and pop's is 58 pounds a day going to put out of business?

Very sad to see people have their lives negatively affected by this. Unfortunately, their losses are going to be part of the cost of the legalization process.

Some of those moms and pops will be able to adjust to the new market structure, some will not. Things change... people evolve. Thats how the process works.

 

[Lazyman]

2Lazy, I understand what you're saying, and there are a LOT of "what-ifs" on both sides of the argument.

Prop 215 isn't going away, probably ever. In my opinion 215 is better than prop 19 in every way, and anyone who smokes or grows in Cali should get a 215 card. Hell, I'll even pay for it and grow for you.

The jail thing inaccurate. I know may proponents of Prop19 envision jailhouse doors swinging open and millions of incarcerated "marijuana offenders" dumping into the streets.

Sadly, this is not the case.

The people in jail for weed are NOT there for posession of under 1 oz, or for having a small personal grow. Neither of those are jailable offenses in California right now.

The people in jail for weed are there for running pounds, big illegal grows, or both. Those actions will continue to be illegal even if Prop19 were to pass, and those people will remain in jail.

Cops have said they will have to expend even more resources if Prop19 passed, as they would have to investigate every grow to see if they are legal or not before making arrests.

A measly billion in taxes is insignificant compared to the $15B the black market spends every year on weed, it wouldn't take much of a black market hit to make the entire project upside-down money wise.

So if this doesn't free people from jail, doesn't keep people from getting arrested with a couple ounces on em, doesn't free up police resources, costs more money than it makes, hurts the economy, and makes a very select few people very wealthy. Capitalism at it's finest, or at its worst?

 

[Lazyman]

58 pounds a day! Thats what one group is planning on producing when their application is accepted. How many mom's and pop's is 58 pounds a day going to put out of business?

Very sad to see people have their lives negatively affected by this. Unfortunately, their losses are going to be part of the cost of the legalization process.

Some of those moms and pops will be able to adjust to the new market structure, some will not. Things change... people evolve. Thats how the process works.

I read that Harborside sells about 8 pounds a day, so if we extrapolate that times 4 for the 4 approved clubs in Oakland, that's 32# a day covered. That means ONE of these giant megapot farms grows enough for the entire city of Oakland, and then some.

D'Angelo (?) at Harborside said he buys from 400 growers, so if we do the math, that means theoretically that 1600 growers supply the four clubs with 32# a day. It takes roughly 50 growers to get each pound (if I did my math right)

Since they are making 58# a day, that means approximately 2900 growers in Oakland are going to be put out of business?

FUUUCK.

 

[johnnyla]

Yeah the ordinance has passed the first vote, they're going to vote again soon, but nobody expects the vote to change. The ordinance would take effect in January of next year, but I'm very curious to see what the DEA does when they KNOW the address where 25K plants are being grown.

If they won't take action, another member offered to bring me in male hemp pollen from Europe, I'm sure I'm not the only one who is thinking this.

brilliant. maybe throw in a bee hive with a bag of pollen to spread it around real good.

 

[krunchbubble]

I read that Harborside sells about 8 pounds a day, so if we extrapolate that times 4 for the 4 approved clubs in Oakland, that's 32# a day covered. That means ONE of these giant megapot farms grows enough for the entire city of Oakland, and then some.

D'Angelo (?) at Harborside said he buys from 400 growers, so if we do the math, that means theoretically that 1600 growers supply the four clubs with 32# a day. It takes roughly 50 growers to get each pound (if I did my math right)

Since they are making 58# a day, that means approximately 2900 growers in Oakland are going to be put out of business?

FUUUCK.

exactly! there plan is to supply ALL clubs, effectively killing all smaller growers who have been the backbone of the medical marijuana community since 1996.

i find this really disturbing......

i need lb's and lb's of pollen, my boy has an ultrlight plane.....

 

[215forLife]

Krunch lol,... leave the emerald triangle peeps alone though ok!

 

[2Lazy]

2Lazy, I understand what you're saying, and there are a LOT of "what-ifs" on both sides of the argument.

Prop 215 isn't going away, probably ever. In my opinion 215 is better than prop 19 in every way, and anyone who smokes or grows in Cali should get a 215 card. Hell, I'll even pay for it and grow for you.

The jail thing inaccurate. I know may proponents of Prop19 envision jailhouse doors swinging open and millions of incarcerated "marijuana offenders" dumping into the streets.

Sadly, this is not the case.

The people in jail for weed are NOT there for posession of under 1 oz, or for having a small personal grow. Neither of those are jailable offenses in California right now.

The people in jail for weed are there for running pounds, big illegal grows, or both. Those actions will continue to be illegal even if Prop19 were to pass, and those people will remain in jail.

Cops have said they will have to expend even more resources if Prop19 passed, as they would have to investigate every grow to see if they are legal or not before making arrests.

A measly billion in taxes is insignificant compared to the $15B the black market spends every year on weed, it wouldn't take much of a black market hit to make the entire project upside-down money wise.

So if this doesn't free people from jail, doesn't keep people from getting arrested with a couple ounces on em, doesn't free up police resources, costs more money than it makes, hurts the economy, and makes a very select few people very wealthy. Capitalism at it's finest, or at its worst?

The Jail thing:
Never said I wanted incarcerated law breakers out of jail. I'm talking about the dude down the street who can grow plenty of doja for themselves in 25sqft staying out of jail in the future. A 25 plant SOG would net someone jail time under current law, or at the least probation and a hassle. Under 19 this grower doesn't go anywhere.

The police resources thing:
You make it sound like they are going to roll out the CSI team and break down the plant genetics in a molecular recombinator. Shit. $3.50 for a tape measure, and a couple of scaled pictures and bam, investigation complete. It's either too big, or it isn't.

Did you just use measly and billion in the same sentence? Really?!?

To the One Ounce thing:
"Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption."

Whatever you harvest at home in your 25 sq ft garden, you can keep at home. Not just one ounce, the whole harvest. No time limit. If you harvest a pound every three months and have a stash of twelve pounds after four years, and you’re not selling, that pot is all yours and perfectly legit.



Why is this so confusing????


To the Capitalism:
First off, move to Cuba or China if you really believe this way. You seriously don't fit in, in America. Capitalism isn't responsible for keeping people out of jail, or reducing the load on our security. That's the responsibility of the individual and the government they elected to represent them.

http://stash.norml.org/californias-prop-19-a-word-for-word-analysis[/URL]] the biggest thing Prop 19 does, the forest that these blogs are missing for the trees, is LEGALIZE ADULT MARIJUANA CULTIVATION AND POSSESSION. Even under Prop 215, the adult cannabis consumer is guilty of being a criminal unless proven innocent as a patient. When Prop 19 passes, the adult cannabis consumer is considered innocent until proven guilty. It is a complete game changer for law enforcement, because:

• the smell of marijuana on your person is no longer probable cause to search you;
• that joint in your pocket means nothing;
• the seizure of stems, leaves, and seeds from your trash is irrelevant;
• a couple of baggies with weed residue in them are just garbage;
• the sight of that bong on your table visible through the kitchen window isn’t a “welcome” mat for a police search;
• your utility bills raising a bit for water and lights don’t matter;
• your neighbors smelling skunky plants is just a nuisance, not the source for an “anonymous tip”;
• receipts for lights, soil, fertilizer, ballasts, trimmers, and stuff are meaningless;
• infrared signatures of your home aren’t evidence of anything;
• marijuana sniffing K-9 units are out of a job; and
• pre-employment drug testing programs become harder for businesses to maintain for cannabis.

Basically, one of the simplest tools law enforcement has for harassing cannabis consumers – the sight and smell of cannabis and paraphernalia – is no longer in the tool belt. As long as you’re an adult, keep your grow in a 5′x5′ area, don’t smoke in front of kids, and don’t leave the house with over an ounce, you are free from police harassment.
And even if you don’t follow the law perfectly, who’s to know? If you’re pulled over and there’s an ounce and a half in your backpack, how does that cop know? Does it “smell heavy” in your car? So long as you refuse a search, how will he know? The smell of pot isn’t cause for a search; you’re allowed to have an ounce of it.

Purposes... 11. Allow the Legislature to adopt a statewide regulatory system for a commercial cannabis industry.

Oakland is starting a bit early because they understand how huge this industry is already. They even have the shipping setup to become literally a world wide provider of cannabis in the far future.

 

[Strainhunter]

.........

i need lb's and lb's of pollen, my boy has an ultrlight plane.....

Live Hemp (!!!) pollen is sold bulk in Europe as one from many health-food items.

They do mail orders.


.

 

[Lazyman]

2Lazy, we'll just agree to disagree. I think it's all moot, since Prop19 lacks the support numbers to even come close to passing anyway.

 

[2Lazy]

2Lazy, we'll just agree to disagree. I think it's all moot, since Prop19 lacks the support numbers to even come close to passing anyway.

Ain't it the truth though...

And yeah, agree to disagree.

 

[kmk420kali]

Too "Lazy" to debate!! (Sorry guys...I just couldn't resist!!

 

[GanjaAL]

Funny thing is... majority of people on here are against big pharma and now we have one of our own who is pushing his very own bigpharma grow, pushing his prop19 claiming it is for the people and everyone is cheering him on.

Now if that ain't ass backwards!

 

[R3ZNH3AD]

Someone needs to erase this dick... FCK Oakland & FCK big Pharma.. You can take Prop 19 and shove it up your @$$.

Peace,

R3ZNH3AD