nute study

[MMJOmniscient]

Hey I wanted to ask a couple questions. First of all thank you! There aren't a lot of concrete straight to the point fact sources out there, what you do is immensely important.

I'm in an odd situation because I lack first-hand experience with Cannabis cultivation, but have done significant amounts of research too prepare myself. I wanted to get your opinion on something because i am caught in between the two. I am very passionate about growing, and have approached it cautiously; I feel like i can handle a harder feeding scheduale, but i don't have to the experience to judge that. I have gardened for 20 years growing tomato, zucchini, chili's, sweet peas's...etc so i feel comfortable around plants. Nutrients in heavy, precise concentration is new though.
So
1. If i used the exact feeding schedule by weighing and measuring everything precisely could it be done? (weight of ppm per liter/ all the other conversions in the world)

2. What do you think about Earth juice Hi Brix Molasses?

3.There's a lackness of feeding schedule's for Earth Juice in the vastness of the internet, what would you recommend an In-experienced, but semi-knowledgeable grower?

4. You should publish a research paper if you haven't already done so, i would love to see the exact observations and biological ways each nute works it's magic!

Thanks for your time and wonderful gift you have given us all, Knowledge.
Hope your studies are going well!

 

[jmansweed]

MMJOmniscient,

In truth your experience is more relavent than you give credit. I have taught many growers. The primary thing I try and help them understand is how plants naturally grow. You grow many different vegitables, I'm sure under similar conditions. Those different vegitables require different nutreint levels but manage to all survive and produce in the same soil. This is because plants essentially choose what to absorb and when to absorb them. I'm sure hypothetically speaking you could be successful simply planting Marijuana in your garden.

My study surrounds primarily soluble nutreints. You could easily opt to provide food for your plants by amending the soil instead and use primarily water only throughout your grow. This would be more in tune with your current methods. I'm currently trying to determine a solid mix myself to compare to my Earth Juice schedule. The "heavy, precise concentration" of nutreints is not the only way to go. Obviously however, it's my first choice.

1. When working with organic solubles it's very hard to priedict an exact schedule even with precise mathmatics. We are relying primarily on microbial life to feed our plants and this microbial life must be balanced. Adding and/or subtracting different ingrediantes and a daily journal of how the plant responds ultimately is the only way I truly find a schedule. It takes some trial and error. As a simplified example, if the pH is to high we must feed the fungus, if it's too low - we feed bacteria. My water, medium and environment all have factors in how my plant absorbs items and so will yours.

2. Earth Juice Molasses is by far the best Molasses product I've used. I am indeed bias as I'm a long time EJ user but the stuff works wonders. My next study will have a write up on it. (Which is still about three months away)

3. The lack of EJ schedules is because the product is so grower specific. I grow in multiple places. Using the same strain with a different water supply my schedule changes damatically. In one instance I had to eliminate Hi-Brix altogether to balance my medium. I believe I provided a link to my schedules - I'll repost it if it's not included. Under similar conditions to myself - it is a solid starting point. Even with different application rates, my ratios should still some what apply.

4. Most of this research was done in notebooks and is hand written. I've been trying to slowly but surely transfer the info onto my computer. I sincerely appreciate your interest - and look foward to hearing how things go in your future. I have personaly found nothing more rewarding than growing Cannabis.

 

[MMJOmniscient]

Dear Jman,

I really appreciate your help, that's exactly what i needed to hear, humility is a key piece of life that I shouldn't underestimate. I'm Excited to start up here in the next week and a half, and I'm going to thoroughly document and record everything i do. I have a lot to learn, and you've given me a new approach to understanding Marijuana Cultivation; I would love to apprentice under someone as knowledgeable as you. I want to understand how the plants absorb and are able to utilize area's around them. The link really help (I don't know how i missed it ^^) and I was curious of any other good websites or post you think would help me in the final steps in this process.
But after thinking about the comments you made, I want to approach this from a more logical, realistic point of view. I want to formulate daily log sheets to fill out the constants of each day.

Do you have any good books you recommend about micro-biology/biology/chemistry/Encyclopedia of everything to know about plants?

If I am starting with soil, would you recommend EJ as a first nutrient to work with? I have been hesitant to start because i want to have my product have the best medicinal properties available. I am doing this for family in severe so quality is the most important factor. I would love any information you could provide me with! You are very knowledgeable
Humbly,
MMJOmniscient

 

[jmansweed]

MMJOmniscient, the nice thing about these forums is you have the chance to apprentice under not only myself, but all the experienced growers here - and there are many. There are a specific group of growers here who specialize in organics. (oganic fanatic club) Much of their interaction is private, which is unfortunate because they have tons of info. Non the less, they come out of the woodwork frequently to help every one out - including myself. I post on a few sites on the web and the threads those growers produce are some of the most informative any where. That's not to take anything away from the others here, who will also provide endless knowledge.

I can't tell you how much a detailed log book of your grow will teach you. Not only about Cannabis but plant growth generally. I am religous about it.

I read literally every piece of literature on Cannabis growth I can get my hands on. Years ago I started growing Cannabis for a living. Although I was a proficiant grower back then. The extra 40 hours a week I would normally be working my job, gave me research time. In hind site, I suppose I used the time wisely. The first thing I did was make a list, of every aspect of Cannabis I felt was worth extensive study. General things like nutreint absorption, plant growth, substrates, insect infestations, and environmental control were just some items on the list. Each item was then broken down into detail and the research began. The list has never been finished - it just grows and grows. Lately, my research has drifted to our influences over Annual plants and it's relationship to Cannabis. Basically, I've found my greatest resources are not your typical books and at times, not books at all. Discussion has taught me more than anything. The many combined years of experience here for example, must be huge. Don't be discouraged to ask anything here - people will give solid advise and more importantly, thought provoking feed back.

"Teaming with Microbes" is a fantastic read, I refer to it weekly

"The Organic Gardener's Handbook of Natural Insect and Disease Control"

"Marijuana Horticulture - The indoor/outdoor Medicinal Growers Bible" by Jorge Cervantes. Although this book provides some broad based knowledge I disagree with a few details. It's an excellant referance however.

"Marijuana Garden Saver" - This is a small but well written referance, excellant for beginners.

The magazines " Maximum Yeild", "Indoor Gardener" and "Urban Garden" are all great reads providing information on new methods and products.

http://www.apsnet.org/ - this site has excellant resources

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=154978

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=125402

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=142176

http://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=12527

EJ is a good choice IMO. I produce Medicinal quality product every harvest with it. It will take some practice however. When you begin, start a "grow journal" here on the site in addition to the more detailed one at home, and update it. People will offer feed back helping to guide you through. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for it myself if you decide to go that route. Thanks again.............

 

[MMJOmniscient]

Thanks Again for your help, it once again helped clarify some things. I love the resources and am going to find a copy of "Teaming with Microbes". I have Cervantes book and also have found it to be a "generally-speaking" reference. I am definitely going to start a journal, but i was wondering if it would be acceptable to Start a journal before i purchase the items, and set up the grow room? I want to make that part of the process, but are not familiar with this particular websites specifics to Journals. Would you say this is one of the better Cannabis Informative sites? It seems to have more specifics and in-depth thinkers

 

[jmansweed]

Start the journal right away. Recmmendations about your initial set-up are important - the more insight - the better. This is a good sight to start with. I will say, at the risk of being scrutinized, that Marijuana Passion.com is a great place for beginners also.

 

[MMJOmniscient]

Alright I will jump right on starting one. Looking more in depth at plants is exciting, and gives me a really good idea of what I'm trying to go for. I appreciate your help and I bet I'll see you around the forums! Thanks

 

[*Journeyman*]

Nice to see someone taking time and making the affort to take this approach doing a side-by-side! Looking forward to the results.

 

[jmansweed]

Journeyman - thanks for reading. I believe there is a link to the results in the thread.

 

[MMJOmniscient]

results-------->http://www.marijuanapassion.com/foru...ight=jmansweed<-------------Bump

 

[MMJOmniscient]

also Jman I am really finding your advice helpful. Today was a day of reading and checking out books at the library; I got a botany and a ecology gardening book, a guide to the life in the soil, and an introduction to microbiology (20% is relevant to plants, and 70% somehow relates to it.).
Where do you think i should start? Botany seems to be more how plants grow and what happens in the plants organs (hormone release).
Ecology's how it all works together it seems. (just started)
Which would be a better place to start? The botany book seems to go into solid detail about how plants utilize their surroundings to grow. In your opinion would it be better to start with botany or ecology? I will read both but i want to process everything in the best way possible. I am going to get the microbe book from amazon as the library didn't have it, once i read these I'll decide what my "Hand Book" will be for each book and purchase it.
Thanks once again, I promise I'll stop asking noob questions once i have the base knowledge and a lil experience =)

 

[jmansweed]

Ask away MMJOmniscient, I'm eager to help.

If we were to break Botony down into many parts - Ecology would be one of them. So would Physiology, Genetics and and things like plant structure etc. Botony covers a wide range of plant growth. If for example, you were to take a broad course on Botony, Ecology would be about mid-way through. It is more of the study of living systems. i.e. soil systems, plant interaction with soil systems etc.

I'm not sure if I sent this link to you. This book is excellant also.

http://www.amazon.com/Marijuana-Botany-Propagation-Breeding-Distintive/dp/091417178X

Botony is a good start. Don't be afraid to chase those aspects of growth and soil systems that interest you along the way however, regardless of where they belong on the learning curve. When learning/teaching yourself about these topics I find over time you eventually develop an understanding. It's like figuring out math problems - With hard work, it just suddenly comes together- I promise. I've had a broad knowledge of things for years but honestly not untill the last few, have I really felt this information compile in my head.

Plants expose those things in the chaotic world of nature that are predictable. They rely on the simplest forms of available resources. The systems that rely on these simple, predictable resources are diverse. Simple Diversity. Keep that in mind. It has value in regards to how you learn things as well. A diverse base of knowledge is required to replace those simple resources plants need. - Indoors, we supply the light, air and food.

Post me a link to your grow journal when you start one. Lets get your set-up ideas out there and see what kind of feed back you recieve. Even if your unsure of details, it could help steer your research in one direction or the other.

Thanks MMJO - again, feel free to ask for information whenever

 

[MMJOmniscient]

I think I'm beginning to understand what makes the different methods each so viable. I really like the concept of soiless mixes, but i don't want to get ahead of myself. Soil provides stability, but I definitely think when the 2nd round girls start their roots I'll do half soiless to find my preference. I really appreciate the help! Here's the Journal: http://www.icmag.com/modules/Journal/viewentry.php?journalid=434
Its just the very basics for now. Tomorrow will be a progressive day!

 

[RipVanWeed]

JMan, Thanks for your studies

I've been growing with organics, but haphazardly. My garden is in an expansion phase. I like the idea of EJ so I bought quarts of Grow,Bloom,Cat,Micro,MetaK.

I grow in OBBT's and am switching over to the EJ regime. My runoff was @7.4 with previous nutes. As the Ph climbs, the plants seem to go slightly limp. The plants I'm chopping now suffered from some defiecincies and I don't care for a repeat. I've been carefully flushing and lowering Ph. The plants respond well, but after a couple of days the Ph climbs.

I know that micromanaging Ph in an organic enviroment should not be needed. I bubbled some weak EJ solutions, both for veg & flower, for 36 hrs. temps about 70-76. No foam and a low Ph of 4.7, didn't want to wait so I fed with the "hot" solution. No problems.

My concern, as you can tell, I've lost some confidence in the stability of the microherd in my setup.

Should I trust the EJ and stow the Ph meter foe awhile?

Are you familar with the OBBT process? If so do you agree that it should work well with EJ, I cut way back on the preloaded nutes this round to accomodate the EJ.

The drifting Ph in the bubbling phase has me questioning when to add, runoff Ph, and more.

Any advice would be welcome, your insights are very respected.

Thank you,

 

[RipVanWeed]

JMan,

Let me get those pics



blowing air up through that rootball



Much Respect,

 

[solace]

Wow thankyou! Just the thing I had been reading and searching days for! All the info i needed this is amazing!

 

[milehighmedical]

.

 

[jmansweed]

MileHighmedical, (and everybody)

Thanks for reading. I'm happy you find this info helpful

I do run CO2 in many cases, but not for this test. Strictly intake and air-cooled lights.

You bring up some very good points in regards to plant numbers and production. Typically, I run 9 plants per light. I run 12 plants per 1000 many times in comparison grows simply to have more to compare. I measured production in grams per watt when considering this study. Sky Walker yields much less per harvest than most strains I work with, but it does it more times a year. So yes 2 onces a plant is low, but in the greater picture of production, when considering yearly grams per watt - it produces tremendously. It can cycle about every 45 days flowering.

I do run larger pots. My roots fill them out thoroughly however. Even when running 12 per. It's a practice I've always adhered to. I have used 3 gallons but prefer the larger volume of medium when growing organically. No specific scientific reason - just a preference of mine.

This test entailed 8 1000 watt lights. 7 out of 8 nutrients tested were done in the same room at the same time. The General Organics test was done later and added simply because I felt there was a lack of experienced information on it. For most of these tests, plant numbers were of no concern however, they are to me now.

I've experimented with veg times allot and for this strain find the applicable numbers work well. I can and do occasionally produce larger plants to flower on and then of course run fewer, but production ultimately remains equal usually.

My capacity at the time was 8000 watts in that one house. For my next study. I'll donate 6 1000's and do 6 nutrient cycles. I run 9000 in my room, and need 3 to continue producing consistent meds if I'm playing around these days. If you are happy with your production rates and comfortable with your methods why change a thing? Your 5 by 5 canopy implies the ladies are filling things out nicely - imo I would stick to what works.

Thanks again - I appreciate the interest.

 

[milehighmedical]

.

 

[jmansweed]

I've been narrowing down the next run.

Botanicare
House and Garden
Old Age organics
Roots organics
Humbolt Nutrients
A 100% living organic soil test w/ added organic teas only

Only a few of the above lines have been purchased - I'm still in the consideration stage. It takes me about 5 months to spit out a solid comparison - and then info still trickles out as I analyze information further. I'm planning this one more interactive however, and will post as I go - at least some info.

I was planning to post details in a few weeks.

In reference to the CO2. I've had documented increased production with additional CO2 enrichment numerous times. It's effectiveness in every grow is a different story. With-out describing specific environmental differences among my set-ups, and explaining sheer quantity of plants in a single space I can't properly state any real increase production numbers. I can state a few broader conclusions I've found.

Any grow in a sealed (no intake) environment benefits greatly - first because of the simple fact CO2 is unavailable. Secondly, because we control the levels and can influence growth more effectively.

In my experiences smaller grows typically thrive just as good with solid forms of intake and proper ventilation throughout the grow. They absolutely get a boost from CO2 - just nothing tremendous for me.

If I grow larger systems. 8 or 9 1000 watt lights in one room, and run big plant numbers, CO2 enrichment greatly increases production. No where near 50%?! - more like 15%. The cost of my grow increases also - more water - more heat - more humidity - more food - more fuel to burn. It out weighs the cost in larger grows imo. Meaning the increased production more than pays for the increased cost. Still however, after calculating the numbers (including cost) I think more like a 12% avg increase is more appropriate. Thats substantial when considering the production from 9000 watts.

I'm sure some growers do find serious production increases with enrichment. Just remember, all other components of your grow should be consistent, predictable and healthy - then it's time for CO2. Many growers try adding it to soon, when priorities should be elsewhere. IMO they infrequently reap all the rewards as a result.

Happy Smoking..................

Jman