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No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

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trichrider

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In the Beginning
10 February 2015/in Cosmology /by Brian Koberlein

Did the big bang really happen? Yes, despite recent claims to the contrary. A new paper in Physical Letters B has the popular press wondering if there was no big bang, but the actual paper claims no such thing.

The big bang is often presented as some kind of explosion from an initial point, but actually the big bang model simply posits that the universe was extremely hot and dense when the universe was young. The model makes certain predictions, such as the existence of a thermal cosmic background, that the universe is expanding, the abundance of elements, etc. All of these have matched observation with great precision. The big bang is a robust scientific theory that isn’t going away, and this new paper does nothing to question its legitimacy.

That doesn’t mean there aren’t unanswered questions about the big bang. For example, simple big bang models show that if you go back in time far enough, there is time when the entire universe was an infinitely dense singularity. This singularity would mark time zero for the cosmos. As many of you know, singularities are problematic, and they tend to stir up lots of debate. That’s where this paper comes in.

The paper presents a big bang model without an initial singularity. It does this by looking at a result derived from general relativity known as the Raychaudhuri equation. Basically his equation describes how a volume of matter changes over time, so its a great way of finding where physical singularities exist in your model. But rather than using the classical Raychaudhuri equation, the authors use a variation with a few quantum tweaks. This approach is often called semi-classical, because it uses some aspects of quantum theory, but isn’t a complete quantum gravity model (which we don’t have).

You can have a big bang without a beginning. Credit: Ethan Siegel.

What the authors show is that their modified Raychaudhuri model eliminates the initial singularity of the big bang. It also predicts a cosmological constant, which is a proposed mechanism for dark energy. Their model is really basic, but this first result shows that this type of approach could work. The catch is that by eliminating the singularity, the model predicts that the universe had no beginning. It existed forever as a kind of quantum potential before “collapsing” into the hot dense state we call the big bang. Unfortunately many articles confuse “no singularity” with “no big bang.”

While this is an interesting model, it should be noted that it’s very basic. More of a proof of concept than anything else. It should also be noted that replacing the big bang singularity with an eternal history isn’t a new idea. Many inflation models, for example, make similar predictions. But none of these ideas eliminate the big bang, which is an established scientific fact.
https://briankoberlein.com/2015/02/10/beginning/
 

trichrider

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http://leiwenwu.tripod.com/panspermia.htm


Scientists believe this meteorite was probably blasted off of the surface of the planet Mars about 16 million years ago by an impact with an asteroid and traveled through space to the earth, where it landed on Antarctica about 13,000 years ago. Some scientists believe that the rod-shaped structures across the top and center of this image may be tiny fossilized bacteria. Many other scientists believe that the structures were formed by processes other than life.


Panspermia Theory suggests that life seeds came from outer space and planets exchanged life. Panspermia literally means seeds everywhere.

Panspermia suggests that life could have existed on another planet and moved to Earth. Statistics have showed 7.5% of rocks from Mars reach Earth. The rocks would travel between less than 100 years to 16,000 years and more to get to earth.

Some of the proponents include Sales Gyon de Montlivant, who proposed life came from moon, H.E. Richter, who suggested life came from meteorites/comets, and Svante Arrhenius, who came up with Panspermia.


Evidence for Panspermia

1. Bacteria can survive harsh environment of space

a. Ultraviolet radiation

b. Protons bombardments

c. Cold

2. Evidence that meteorites contain life

a. Amino acids (left handed in helicity)

b. Bacteria

c. Carbon

d. Protected inside rocks

3. Bacteria can live for a long time in sleeping state until awakened

4. Mars safer than Earth (less bombardments and less gravity)

5. Mars not as hot as Earth in early development

6. Mars had have had oxygen back then when earth did not





Different Scenarios of Panspermia
1.
Life began once, on Mars, and came to Earth in Martian meteorites. May or may not still exist on Mars (amino acids or bacteria)

2.
Life originated on both Earth and Mars independently. Cross-colonization (cross-fertilization) may subsequently have occurred (a.a. or bacteria)

3.
Life began once, on Earth, and was propagated to Mars, where it possibly established itself (a.a. or bacteria)

4.
Life originated on both Earth and Mars, but in spite of the exchange of rocks and dust, no transfer of viable organisms has occurred

5.
Life originated on neither Earth nor Mars, but somewhere else entirely, such as a comet, Jupiter’s moon Europa, Venus, or body outside the Solar System altogether. It came to earth, perhaps Mars too, via some sort of Panspermia mechanism (a.a. or bacteria)

6.
Life has originated on earth alone and has not (yet) successfully colonized another planet. Mars is, and always was, lifeless



The theory states that after they arrive safely from space, they became protein from amino acids and eventually life (if not already). They would then grow and reproduce, possibly in a warm pond/ocean or underground.
 

trichrider

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Creationism is the idea that a Creator, God, created life according to its kind (as in the Bible), and life has evolved and changed but not enough to create new species.

God created Earth and everything in it (including life) in a six-day period around 4,000 or 8,000 B.C.


1st day – Monday – Morning and evening


2nd day – Tuesday – Sky


3rd day – Wednesday – Land, seas, and vegetation according to its kind


4th day – Thursday – Sun, moon, and stars


5th day – Friday – Sea and sky animals, each according to its kind


6th day – Saturday – Land animals and man, each according to its kind


7th day – Sunday – Rest


Each organism is created according to its kind by God. Variations can exist within a kind. Humans produce humans, cows produce cows is an example of how each is created according to its kind.

Mutation and natural selection could not by themselves have brought all living things from a single organism. Neither can create information out of nothing or pure randomness (evolution). Organisms can only have the same information or lose it, not gain it. On the other hand, evolutionists believe that organisms gain more and more information (complexity) in mutation and natural selection

Gaps in fossil records also support Creation. Animals appear abruptly and there are no clear links.

Noah’s Flood is used to explain the fossil record. Quick fossilization in Catastrophism would create fossils. The Global flood could made fossils by catastrophic processes. This accounts for fossil records in geology and there are evidence of a global flood.


Other evidence

1. Birds are specialized

a. Wings and lungs not from reptiles

b. Created especially for its purpose

c. Advanced and could not have evolved

2. DNA are composed of same building blocks in all organisms

a. Evolutionists say from same ancestor

b. Creationists – same special Creator – designed using same building blocks for efficiency

3. Complexity of living organisms

a. Designer

b. In SETI, complex radio signals = designer

c. Complex organisms = designer

4. Problems with Big Bang and Chaos Theories

5. Problems with dating methods

a. Radiometric dating

b. Radioactive dating

c. Radiocarbon dating

d. Unstable and incorrect each time

e. 90% of dating methods indicate far younger Earth


Although evolution (the theory) is said to be accepted by most scientists, there are many problems and gaps with the theory (even evolutionists admit it), and many scientists are not evolutionists (creationists or not)

C.S. Lewis – If the existence of life is an accident, then the evolution of man was also an accident, and everything that we have achieved are accidents, and our thoughts are accidental byproducts of the movement of atoms. Meaning why should we believe these accidental accounts of accidents?

Albert Einstein – “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”

link from above post.
 

waveguide

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for like a whole moment,

some people could,

like,

try and focus on comprehending posts of other people, as if there were actual communication.... here! occuring!

great evidence! still balls all to epistemology, and still balls all compared to any statement rendered with an awareness of epistemology.

wouldn't it be fascinating, if you could comprehend something, to the point where then we could have an exchange or conversation, based on that awareness!

page 86.

you go back and read!
 

RetroGrow

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There is no point in trying to reason with creationist idiots. I have no problem calling them idiots, because that's what they are. They are stuck on stupid, blind to science and reality, and they willingly choose this form of denial/stupidity, because "it says so in the bible", a book of ancient mythology/parables, not meant to be taken literally. What we understand is dwarfed by what we don't understand, however, we are making progress. Not all of us are satisfied being stuck on stupid, and explaining away what we don't understand by saying, "well, I don't understand this or that, therefore, there must be an invisible, mute magician in the sky who "created" it all. I can't even come up with the words to express how mindless that is.
For those of you with brains, look at the piece that was on 60 Minutes this past Sunday. It's on their website. In it, Neil de Grasse Tyson explains exactly how we are literally star dust. Even the stupid among us are star dust, although they will never accept that, because anything that conflicts with their biblical superstitions is dismissed. They are no different than ISIS. Narrow minded, ignorant, and believing they speak to and for god.
 

LEF

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So retrogrow, you don't respect other people's beliefs ?

No different than isis... are you sure about this ?

I have the impression that it is you who is stuck in only being able to see one point of view retro.
 

igrowone

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I flew to Cancun Mexico from Cali a while back, I had a window seat and was surprised to see that every time I looked down all I saw was green. This went on for about 6 hours. No people, no houses, no lights, no nada except for green. An acquaintance of mine told me about a 36 hour train ride is Russia where all he saw was pine trees and snow. Look at earth from space, most land is uninhabited and green. What's killing the earth is irresponsible industrialization. There's plenty of room for everyone if we learn to live responsibly. The third world should sterilize us and continue to have kids and enjoy life. My Mom always warned me that the world wasn't fair though so....

no question, lot of space on planet earth
problem is, most people want to live the united states lifestyle
population becoming more urbanized nearly everywhere
Mexico city is/was the largest city of all?
nuclear powered self contained habitats could pack people in all kinds of places
it's all about energy density, fossil fuels still rule for the moment
 

mr.brunch

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The theory is that as the earth spins, it has a wobble in the tilt of the axis , tipping the planet away from and then toward the sun (long cycle)
As we tip away, ice sheets grow.... As we tip towards, they retreat.
 

waveguide

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sorry everyone.. delerium of some nature..

hey, have you ever seen that scene in gods must be crazy part 3 where he's riding on the.. that's great, isn't it. i figure that's funny enough that some people get hurt laughing so hard, hopefully not.

i get that feeling from time to time.

never worship a cadaver people. any cadaver, ever, including that one.
 

RetroGrow

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So retrogrow, you don't respect other people's beliefs ?

I don't respect other people's superstitions.
I don't respect people who would stifle the progress of science and the human race because of their moronic creationist views.
Stem cells are a good example. Stem cell research research is our greatest hope for ending human disease, yet creationists have fought tooth and nail against the use of stem cells and stem cell research. This form of organized ignorance has cost human lives.
But no worries, as history shows that creationists, and people who believe their god is the one and only god, and their god is better than your god, have no problem whatsoever exterminating, torturing, burning alive those with other "beliefs". If you saw 60 minutes the other night, you saw how Christians are being exterminated by "radical" Muslims, in the name of their god. Not only are they wiping out people, they are trying to erase history, by destroying the ancient relics of all those who don't share their narrow minded, ignorant, barbaric "beliefs". The arrogance of "belief", which is code for superstition and ignorance.
 
S

StudenTeacher

no question, lot of space on planet earth
problem is, most people want to live the united states lifestyle
population becoming more urbanized nearly everywhere
Mexico city is/was the largest city of all?
nuclear powered self contained habitats could pack people in all kinds of places
it's all about energy density, fossil fuels still rule for the moment

I do agree it is a luxurious lifestyle we live here in the US and the rest of the developed world, but it's not the only way. My opinion is that most folks want a 'familiar' lifestyle, not necessarily a 'modern' or 'convenience lifestyle. Our lives are shaped very much by advertising and media (advertising of ideas). Most of the luxuries today are not needed and didn't exist more than 100 years ago, though many of us are very attached to these manufactured ideas, items, conveniences, etc. With enough properly placed propaganda people will have a different 'idea' of how we're supposed to live. America is fat and diseased and unhappy and has been brainwashed by corporations to think this is normal or acceptable.
I've seen negative news recently in regards to Michelle Obama's healthy lunch policy she's pushing for school kids. Wtf? A million commercials advertising fast food, fancy automobiles, automobile insurance, 'Las vegas', mind altering prescription drugs, caffeinated beverages, etc, featuring hypnotizing music and beautiful women, all taking advantage of human impulse. Could you imagine if all of these were replaced by positive messages? Most people I know think I'm nuts and say humanity will not change. My opinion of course is that we can, and will. We are just being led like a dog on a leash anyways. I cannot recall ever hearing an original idea or having one myself. In general, ideas are presented to us and we sort through them to some degree, and dismiss or favor them based on certain criteria unique to each individual.
If a different group controls the media and schools the world will change quite rapidly. Humans are here to love, learn, and, observe, among other things, and this leaves us quite impressionable and open to ideas. Things aren't as bad as they are made by some to seem :)
 

LEF

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Thank you for you reply Retrogrow

Not everyone who believes in creation hurts people right ? its just a belief. I can have it and accept people who wouldnt believe it. In fact, i dont really talk religion with people, its sort of a personal thing. Not saying i dont mind talking about it here but just saying on the regular its not a subject i speak about with people.

So you don't wonder about life and be amazed at it ? And imagine possibilities ?

And you don't have the belief that this -could- have been created somehow by some kind of higher power ? (Maybe us who knows)

Okay i read the last line.
Belief is code word for superstition and ignorance you said.

So this means that what other person might believe in regards to the origins of life to you is superstition.

Where did you take this idea from ?

I don't know if it's truth or not but a good thing to ponder.

That a belief can be superstition for another person, i can understand.
But that a belief is ignorance.. There are some beliefs that are not ignorance. Right ?
I believe that, if i get the feeling i need to go poo, then i will need to go poo.
Is that superstition ? No because i will shit my pants if i dont go.
Is it ignorance ? I'd say it's knowledge. And knowledge is power they say.

Some things you know right ? And that knowledge becomes beliefs, like from experience for exemple. You go through experiences, and then you make some beliefs out of experiences. I understand how all these beliefs can be somewhat all illusion but, they are founded in something real i believe.

Have you ever smoked some dmt ? I wonder because, there are a lot of plants used by tribes that they say lets them access other dimensions and connect with stuff. Even go into space. Plants used for spiritual purposes.

So i was wondering what you think of these plants, and maybe if you have tried. Because I hear a lot about these plants being called entheogens :

An entheogen ("generating the divine within")[4] is a chemical substance used in a religious, shamanic, or spiritual context[5] that may be synthesized or obtained from natural species.

Plants that can generate the divin within
what do you think about that ?
 
S

StudenTeacher

I don't respect other people's superstitions.
I don't respect people who would stifle the progress of science and the human race because of their moronic creationist views.
Stem cells are a good example. Stem cell research research is our greatest hope for ending human disease, yet creationists have fought tooth and nail against the use of stem cells and stem cell research. This form of organized ignorance has cost human lives.
But no worries, as history shows that creationists, and people who believe their god is the one and only god, and their god is better than your god, have no problem whatsoever exterminating, torturing, burning alive those with other "beliefs". If you saw 60 minutes the other night, you saw how Christians are being exterminated by "radical" Muslims, in the name of their god. Not only are they wiping out people, they are trying to erase history, by destroying the ancient relics of all those who don't share their narrow minded, ignorant, barbaric "beliefs". The arrogance of "belief", which is code for superstition and ignorance.
My old roommate used to use that same argument with me. I would of course then remind him that he is not a scientist, and has not studied first hand basically any of the 'science' he was always preaching about. He absorbed information from school books and documentary television programs that seemed possible to him and some even plausible, but he did not spend his days in a lab or with a telescope. I had to remind him that his religion/ belief system was no different than anyone else that gets their information from books. You need to prove something first hand or it's no more real than anyone else's 'idea' or 'belief'. Practicing science is much different than reading about it and believing in it. Most people I know don't have a mind quite like Stephen Hawking and other brainiacs and will just have to take their word at face value. We all pick and choose a belief system. It's really all we can do without all the info. There really truly are not very many facts, but endless illusions of facts. One fact is though, we are here together:)
 

LEF

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A belief system in retrogrows vision from what i under is an ignorance system, a superstition system

But isnt that a belief in itself ?
 
S

StudenTeacher

What I have come to find at this point, is that we are all ignorant. With 7 billion people on the planet I can just about guarantee billions of them not agreeing with my beliefs. This goes for everyone. We are all crazy to someone. Retro seems a touch negative and highly insensitive, but his ideas are as valid as any. We're all just trying to connect and share. Sharing is caring and learning: -)
 

LEF

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Wait, (sharing is caring and learning) is a belief

Hence, ignorance and superstition from retrogrows perception

But that's a belief in itself so i guess i am ignorant and superstitious myself

I guess there really is no way out


Were all stuck in our ignorance and superstitions

Is that correct retrogrow ?
 

LEF

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I think ignorance might be relative

Might be ignorant on a lot of things but on some things you might not be
 
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