What's new
  • As of today ICMag has his own Discord server. In this Discord server you can chat, talk with eachother, listen to music, share stories and pictures...and much more. Join now and let's grow together! Join ICMag Discord here! More details in this thread here: here.

No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

Status
Not open for further replies.

trichrider

Kiss My Ring
Veteran
http://www.holoscience.com/wp/black-holes-tear-logic-apart/

Black holes tear logic apart

Posted on March 7, 2004 by Wal Thornhill



“It seems that every practitioner of physics has had to wonder at some point why mathematics and physics have come to be so closely entwined. Opinions vary on the answer. ..Bertrand Russell acknowledged..”Physics is mathematical not because we know so much about the physical world, but because we know so little.” ..Mathematics may be indispensable to physics, but it obviously does not constitute physics.”
– Etienne Klein & Marc Lachièze-Rey, THE QUEST FOR UNITY – The Adventure of Physics.

News reports about black holes seem to arrive about one per week. The claims are usually as outrageous as the concept of a black hole itself. Yet astronomers believe that a supermassive black hole exists at the center of every galaxy in the universe. In the BBC news report below it is headlined that a “huge black hole tears apart star.” Another report just out claims that black holes are “stringy fuzzballs.”

It is not a star but common sense that is being torn apart. Black holes are not ‘stringy’ or ‘fuzzy.’ They are a mathematical figment. They don’t exist. There was no need to invent them if the electrical nature of matter and the universe had been considered. The ‘black hole’ concept is a classic example of the malaise afflicting modern physics. Mathematicians dominate the discipline. And it is a common mistake to assume that to be very clever at mathematics is to somehow be a genius across the board. One past expert on Special Relativity took a very different view:


“It is usually taken for granted that the processes of mathematics are identical with the processes of reasoning, whereas they are quite different. The mathematician is more akin to a spider than to a civil engineer, to a chess player than to one endowed with exceptional critical power. The faculty by which a chess expert intuitively sees the possibilities that lie in a particular configuration of pieces on the board is paralleled by that which shows the mathematician the much more general possibilities latent in an array of symbols. He proceeds automatically and faultlessly to bring them to light, but his subsequent correlation of his symbols with facts of experience, which has nothing to do with his special gift, is anything but faultless, and is only too often of the same nature as Lewis Carroll’s correlation of his pieces with the Red Knight and the White Queen – with the difference whereas Dodgson recognised the products of his imagination to be wholly fanciful, the modern mathematician imagines, and persuades others, that he is discovering the secrets of nature.”
– Professor Herbert Dingle, Science at the Crossroads (1972).

The astrophysicist, Dingle, knew what he was talking about. He wrote the entry on Special Relativity for the Encyclopaedia Britannica for some years before he realized the logic was flawed. His many attempts to find an expert who could answer his simple question without resorting to metaphysics or answering some other less awkward question convinced him of the danger we face if we continue to allow mathematical theorists to dominate physics – hence the title of his book. But the juggernaut of science sped through the crossroads, unheedful of the red lights.

There are fundamental problems facing physicists. First, the real world is a complicated place so simplifying assumptions have to be made in choosing a mathematical model. The choice is crucial for the following steps. Second, mathematical rules are applied to the symbols as a tool that may provide insights into the physical phenomenon under investigation. Third, the results must be translated back into ordinary language.

In steps one and three physicists are generally far from perfect. In the first step, the “when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail” tendency is a trap. For example, Eddington applied an inappropriate model of gas behavior inside stars that allowed him to dismiss electrical effects. In the second step there is a tendency in astrophysics for the mathematics to run into infinities. A process euphemistically called “renormalization” is used to deal with this problem. But as any high school student knows, there is nothing normal about infinity. Introducing infinity into an equation, effectively dividing by zero, allows you to “prove” that 1 = 2.

Running into infinities in mathematical models should result in questioning the appropriateness of the model and the limits of its applicability. However, astrophysicists simply plug in a measured result and carry on. But it is the last step that exposes physicists at their worst. Here, they use words or phrases, which have real meaning, in a whimsical or sloppy way when they mean something more mathematically abstruse. For example, using the word “dimension” when referring to more than the three spatial dimensions, as if a ruler can also be used to measure the extra dimensions. It gives rise to terms like four-dimensional “warped space” and “space-time,” or sometimes that weird cloth, the “fabric of space-time.” We also have the logically indefensible “parallel universe.” None make physical or logical sense.

The black hole is a choice example where all three steps have failed. In the first step, gravity is the only tool considered. For example, from a graduate textbook on astrophysics*: “No known physical force can stop the self-swallowing of mass that makes a black hole.” That is a model-dependent declaration. The force of gravity is effectively zero when compared to the electric force. If you allow for the electrical structure of matter, the almost 2,000 fold difference in mass of the electron and proton will ensure that in a strong gravitational field charge separation will operate to prevent compression. Charge separation prevents the collapse of stars. Exotic theoretical objects like neutron stars and black holes are impossible. Even internal nuclear fires are unnecessary to sustain a star. The standard model of stars fails if the wrong tool, gravity, is used exclusively.

In the second step, one infinity is used to counter another. Infinities abound in the literature on black holes. The infinitely weak force of gravity is balanced by postulating an almost infinitely dense object – the black hole. Playing with infinities like this can give you any result you desire. It sidesteps the fact that we do not understand the real nature of gravity, or the relationship between mass and matter, or the electrical response of matter to gravity, or the electrical nature of the universe. That’s a great deal of ignorance to be swallowed up, even by a hypothetical black hole!

The third step involves the language describing black holes. All four of the examples given earlier are used when referring to black holes. For example, the textbook goes on: “A black hole is a region of spacetime in which gravity is so strong that nothing, not even light, can escape it.” The phrase, “region of spacetime” is physically meaningless and results from a confused use of the word “time” and a nonsensical notion that gravity is a property of empty space instead of matter.

But most damning is that the narrow training of astrophysicists does not allow them to “see” the powerful electric discharge effects at the centers of galaxies. The x-rays, gamma rays, jets and radio lobes cry out for an electrical model. By simply invoking the electrical force, which is a thousand trillion trillion trillion times stronger than gravity, we can return to the realm of normal objects, normal physics, and common sense electrical engineering. The gravitational black hole model is fictional and worthless.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Without the checks and balances of experiment and direct observation of black holes, astrophysicists long ago slipped their leash. As exhibit, this recent story from BBC News:


Huge black hole tears apart star

Published: 2004/02/18
Astronomers claim they have observed a super-massive black hole ripping apart a star and consuming part of it.

Black hole and accretion disk
The findings are the best evidence yet of the theory, say astronomers



Comment: There is no way that astronomers can claim to “have observed a super-massive black hole,” far less “ripping apart a star and consuming part of it.” As we shall see, all they have observed is a burst of x-rays from the center of a galaxy.


Scientists think the doomed star drifted too close to the giant hole and gradually fell under the influence of its enormous gravity. The tidal forces of the black hole pulled on the star, stretching it until it broke up. The black hole then swallowed some of the matter left behind, causing a flare of X-rays that was detected on Earth.

Comment: This fabricated account relies on the model astronomers have chosen initially. If that choice is wrong all conjectures based on that model will be worthless. If something else is causing the X-ray burst, the whole theoretical edifice comes crashing down.


The phenomenon has long been predicted by theory and similar X-ray spikes have been seen before.

Comment: In this case, prior prediction does not help prove whether this particular theoretical model is correct because alternatives have not been considered and a means of falsifying the theory established. Many astrophysical models are practically unfalsifiable, and therefore worthless, because they are capable of being adapted to fit each ‘surprising’ new discovery.


‘Brilliant flare’

But astronomers claim the new data, from the European Space Agency’s XMM-Newton observatory and Nasa’s Chandra X-ray observatory, is the best evidence yet that these events do happen.

Comment: Such evidence would not stand up in a court because no limits are placed on the black hole model as a source of gravitational energy. It is like a theoretical spring that can be stretched to infinity without breaking. A theory that can ignore practical limits is fundamentally flawed.


The X-ray outburst is one of the most extreme ever detected and was caused by gas from the destroyed star being heated to millions of degrees.

Comment: Here is a bold statement of fact that is entirely model dependent. Using gravity to heat gas is the most unlikely method imaginable to produce X-rays. We use almost infinitely more efficient electric power to do it. And Nature is not known for being inefficient.


The black hole is at the centre of a galaxy known as RX J1242-11 and is estimated to have a mass about 100 million times that of the Sun. RX J1242-11 is an estimated 700 million light-years away from Earth. “This unlucky star just wandered into the wrong neighbourhood,” said Dr Stefanie Komossa, of the Max Planck Institute in Germany.

Comment: This is where the theorists overstep the mark by translating their theoretical model into real objects (one of them 100 million times more massive than the Sun!! That’s really stretching that spring!!) and discussing imagined events as if they actually took place.


“The centre of the galaxy flared up in a brilliant burst of X-rays thousands of times brighter than all of the billions of stars of this galaxy taken together.”

Comment: This is the only factual statement in the entire news release.


Dr Komossa said the emission’s wide spread of energy was characteristic of matter very close to a black hole.

Comment: This language is misleading. It gives the impression that “matter very close to a black hole” has been observed directly or there is no other way that the spread of X-ray energy could be achieved. A “characteristic” of something is the “aggregate of qualities that distinguish it from others.” But no “others” have been considered. More important information would be other qualities of the emission that don’t quite fit the model. Scientists are prone to ignore disconfirming evidence or, if the evidence cannot be ignored, to continually fiddle with the model rather than re-examine all of the assumptions underpinning their model.


“The gravity of that black hole is strong enough to swing around the stars in the centre and in the vicinity up to speeds of several thousands of kilometres per second,” Professor Guenther Hasinger, also of the Max Planck Institute, told a news conference in Washington DC, US. It is estimated that about one-hundredth of the mass of the star was ultimately consumed by the black hole.

Comment: These descriptions of the extreme behavior expected in the gravitational model should be viewed in the context of the inability of theorists to explain the motion of stars in a spiral galaxy using Newtonian theory without conjuring up invisible matter placed where needed in order to save the model. Modern astronomy has the reek of Ptolemaic epicycles about it.




Tidal force of a black hole
The black hole's tidal forces stretched the star to breaking point.

This small amount is consistent with predictions that the momentum and energy of the process by which the star is consumed would fling most of the star’s gas away from the black hole.

Comment: A major adjustment of the black hole model was required to explain how matter could be flung out in polar jets at near light speed from an object from which there was supposed to be no escape. As usual, magnetism was called upon to rescue the gravitational model. No mention was made about the electric currents required to produce the magnetic fields.

One puzzle was how the jets can maintain their narrow trajectory over a million light years. The Chandra x-ray astronomy website offers this: “The best bet at this point is that a tightly coiled magnetic field is spun out with the particles. One team of scientists exploring this line of reasoning has concluded that black holes may be the primary source of magnetic energy in the universe. This could be highly significant because, as is known from observations of solar flares, magnetic energy can readily change into other forms of energy.” It is quite strange to witness this blind-spot that does not allow astrophysicists to see that magnetism is a secondary effect of electric current, and not a primary cause. The most simple method of creating a filamentary, glowing jet in plasma is to cause an electric discharge through it. Novelty store plasma balls show the effect clearly. Plasma physicists note that plasma filamentation is known to occur over at least 14 orders of magnitude of current, from microamperes to multi-megaamperes.


“Every galaxy contains a black hole, and there are millions or billions of galaxies. In principle, we are expecting these events to happen all the time,” said Professor Hasinger.

Comment: A final confident statement with no qualifications: “Every galaxy contains a black hole.” A fanciful model is made fact by fiat.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The PLASMA GUN at Galactic Centers

While astrophysicists have left the real universe for metaphysics, we must turn to practical engineers for some answers. The prestigious Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) has recognized the subject of plasma cosmology for some years. Plasma cosmology has no problem explaining the ubiquitous spiral shape of galaxies and reproducing it in the plasma laboratory. All that is required to produce the phenomenon is electrical power. Galaxies are threaded like pinwheels on invisible cosmic threads of electric current. Those cosmic threads are fundamental to the web-like appearance of the visible universe.

Survey of the universe
Survey of the nearby universe maps the distribution of about 75,000 galaxies (small orange dots). The Earth is located at the intersection of the two wedges. The galaxies clearly trace a network of filamentary structures. Image courtesy of the 2dF Galaxy Redshift Survey team.

Although operating in “dark current” mode in deep space, the presence of cosmic (Birkeland) currents is demonstrated by their magnetic fields. A galaxy like ours is effectively a giant homopolar motor, with current flowing along the spiral arms toward the galactic center and then out along the polar axis.

There is a simple device known as a dense plasma focus, or “plasma gun,” that mimics what is going on in active galactic nuclei, or AGN’s. It shows what happens when converging current streams along the galactic arms are focussed into a very small volume at the galactic center.

Plasma focus device

The dense plasma focus, first invented in 1954, consists of two coaxial cylindrical electrodes usually less than 30 cm in all dimensions in a gas-filled vacuum chamber connected to a capacitor bank. It is capable of producing high-energy X-ray and gamma-ray radiation and intense beams of electrons and ions, as well as abundant fusion reactions. In operation, the capacitors discharge in a several-microsecond pulse, the gas is ionized and a current sheath, consisting of pinched current filaments, forms and runs down the electrodes.

Looking down the barrel of plasma focus
The radial, pinched current filaments can be seen here as we look down the barrel of the dense plasma focus.

When the sheath reaches the end of the inner electrode (the anode), the filaments pinch together, forming a dense, magnetically-confined, hot spot or plasmoid. The plasmoid emits soft X-rays with energy in the range of several kiloelectron volts. X-ray pinhole images have demonstrated that the plasmoids are tiny, with radii of a few microns to tens of microns. These plasmoids emit intense beams of accelerated ions and electrons. Fusion neutrons are emitted from the device in large quantities. Simple plasma scaling laws allow us to see why it is that the source of the prodigious outpouring of energy from an active galactic center is so small.**

Radio arc at galactic center
Radio emissions from the center of the galaxy, showing the bright radio source SagA* and the filamentary “power lines” feeding the plasmoid at the core of the Milky Way. Credit: Farhad Yusef-Zadeh

No peculiar physics, strange matter or singularities (infinities) are involved in the plasma focus model of galactic centers. Black holes are not required. Matter in the vicinity of the galactic center is under the control of powerful electromagnetic forces. Gravitational calculations of stellar masses and motions in the galactic center are inappropriate and misleading. During the time that energy is being efficiently stored in the tiny central plasmoid, the galactic center is quiescent. Jets are only produced when the plasmoid becomes unstable. The periodic outbursts from a galactic plasmoid can briefly release more energy than all of the stars in the galaxy. Precisely the same effect is achieved in the high-energy plasma lab, like that at Los Alamos, where more instantaneous power than is available from all of the power stations on Earth can be released in a volume the size of a baked bean can. Who, in their right mind, would try to achieve a similar effect by (in effect) dropping a great mass from a great height?

The fact that the center of a galaxy is the “anode” in a galactic discharge supports the electric universe model of stars as tiny secondary anodes formed and sustained in a galactic discharge. Stars cannot simply attract all of the electrons they need to achieve electrical neutrality and then “wink out” because the entire galaxy is a part of a far greater circuit. A galaxy and its stars are continually playing “catch up” with an unknown universal power source. And just as our power stations are usually out of sight of the cities that they light up, so the universal power source seems to be beyond the visible universe.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The situation with modern cosmology raises disturbing questions about physics training and the way science is conducted today. In physics, mathematical methods are emphasized and students are almost exclusively tested on their mathematical ability. For many the subject has become sterile and abstract. Mathematical cleverness counts for more than common sense, empirical observation and historical research. The inevitable result is that we now have a cosmology that is an oxymoron – scientific creationism, and a universe that has been called “the ultimate free lunch.” Tens of billions of dollars are being spent to satisfy the search for imaginary particles, objects and energies dreamt up by mathematicians. It seems the more preposterous the claim, the more chance of being heard when it comes to funding. We have unsuitably trained scientists foisting upon us the most super-expensive experiments: particle colliders to try to reproduce an imagined big bang; gravity wave telescopes, when we don’t understand the first thing about gravity; and seriously misguided space experiments. A flood of data returning from space probes is being analysed by a generation of researchers who do not comprehend what they are looking at.

The astronomer Halton Arp summed up the situation:


“After all, to get the whole universe totally wrong in the face of clear evidence for over 75 years merits monumental embarrassment and should induce a modicum of humility.”
– What has Science Come to? – Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 14, No. 3.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The last word, from half a century ago, goes to Professor Herbert Dingle. In his Presidential Address to the Royal Astronomical Society in 1953 he said:


“No great scientific work, it is true, has been done without the free and bold use of imagination, but let its products be properly assessed before they are announced as discoveries of the order of nature. Even idle speculation may not be quite valueless if it is recognized for what it is. If the new cosmologists would observe this proviso, calling a spade a spade and not a perfect agricultural principle, one’s only cause for regret would be that such great talents were spent for so little profit.

But I am not yet convinced that facility in performing mathematical operations must inevitably deprive its possessor of the power of elementary reasoning, though the evidence against me is strong. Let our younger cosmologists forget cosmology for the space of three years – the universe is patient – it can wait, and instead read the history of science – I mean, the work of the great scientists themselves. After asking themselves what meaning it has for the work of today, let them return to cosmology and give their attention again to the great problems into which they have prematurely rushed.

I do not enjoy the task of arraigning those whose mathematical facility greatly exceeds their judgement of scientific authenticity, and who have in consequence exercised this facility on any premises that will give it scope. But one who, however unworthy, accepts the honor of presiding over one of the foremost scientific societies of the world, accepts a responsibility. The ideas to which we give publicity are accepted as genuine scientific pronouncements and as such influence the thinking of philosophers, theologians, and all who realize that in no intellectual problem, however fundamental, can scientific research now be ignored. And so when it happens we have published, in the name of science, so-called ‘principles’ that in origin and character are identical with the ‘principles’ that all celestial movements are circular and all celestial bodies immutable, it becomes my duty to point out that this is precisely the kind of celebration that science was created to displace.”
– Observatory, 73, 42.

Wal Thornhill
 

resinryder

Rubbing my glands together
Veteran
I had a friend here who's family, his grandparents, came over from Italy. They weren't wealthy by any means but were at the Catholic church every time the doors opened. Eventually the grandfather died. The family went to the priest to see if there was any help the church could provide with the burial expense. The priest without missing a beat told them that he was having another funeral in a couple of days and that they could curl their grandfather up around the feet, kinda wrapped around the person who would be in the coffin so he couldn't be seen by the other family. However when they came to the funeral they couldn't say anything about their grandfather but they would have to be there to mourn the guy who could afford the coffin.
Sweet deal right?
 

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
which is why i'll be cremated & mixed with fertilizer...some people think I am ALREADY fertilizer...:biggrin:

Why not just go green? No cremation. Just plant/worm food. You could bottle it, and sell it post mortem to a nursery near you that sells to Cannabis growers. That way, you would be part of the solution.
 

Midwest sticky

Resident Smartass & midget connoisseur
Armedoldhippy:Ill Just dig a hole in the woods and toss you in:biggrin:
Then I'd come back every 420 and plant a clone on your grave. Then you'll really be fertilizer.:dance013:
 
Last edited:

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
My one grandfather was a surgeon who came over from Italy with his priest brother to create a catholic church.

Since his generation there have been 4 suicides in subsequent generation, all consequences of the shame from catholic upbringing.

How do you know it wasn't mental illness that runs in the family, rather than Catholic guilt?



I'll bet my grow no one here has a real clue to what real fucking suffering is, and that I my friend most certainly do.

I can't imagine why you would think that you have a special understanding of human suffering. Or, perhaps you were being sarcastic? Suffering, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. I think we've all seen/experienced it. It's part of the human condition. I see suffering every day in the street, in the faces of the homeless and mentally disturbed (I live in the city). Suffering is ubiquitous. No parent would stand by and watch his children suffer without trying to do something about it. And, yet, the gods don't interject. If the billionaires of the world got together, they could easily end homelessness, yet they are more concerned with getting more billions. It's mystifying how they turn their backs on suffering, and in many cases are the cause of it. If I had the power to end suffering, I would do it, but, alas, I am only a man, not a god.
 

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
Armedoldhippy:Ill Just dig a hole in the woods and toss you in:biggrin:
Then I'd come back every 420 and plant a clone on your grave. Then you'll really be fertilizer.:dance013:

That's what "green" burial means. It's really a "thing" now, as it once was, before the days of embalming.
 

Siever

Well-known member
Veteran
its arrogant and delusional to say that what was writen down for us thousands of years ago was done by idiots.someone could say that about this thread in 200 years.how would that make you feel?


They probably will if they read everything about the lord and how he controls everything on this planet and in this universe. Last week I saw a documentary on tv about people from the bible belt who said science is bogus & that the lord wouldn't allow climate change because the lord didn't intend it that way. Oh my god(pun intended)! How can somebody talk like that in public without feeling embarrassed? On the other hand they all use cellphones use a fridge and so on: those are the products of science, so if one really rejects science: go and live like the amish or like IS or some other barbarian.

Siever
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
How do you know it wasn't mental illness that runs in the family, rather than Catholic guilt?

Many mental illnesses are subject to P=G+E.

I can provide the scientific back up for that one.

It is that simple.

My father lived a privileged life and had more than many people dream for.

His was very, very intelligent, and a cynic, he possessed a mindset similar to HST.

Didn't serve him or HST well, and since cynicism is a perception, it was a programming they let permeate there thinking so poignantly that it ended in life without meaning.

Would you like me to go into the depths of why I come to these conclusions? Both anecdotal and scientific?

Was HST mentally healthy when he took his own life because he saw no meaning in it?

Or was it the effect of cynicism dominating his being because when he judged the institutions of man (government, religion and the like) he so keenly focused on the narcissistic side of the human condition any notion of the other part of our being was lost on him all together.

I can't imagine why you would think that you have a special understanding of human suffering.Or, perhaps you were being sarcastic?

No, I am being dead serious and I will tell you why I earn this qualification.

Most people pass the buck or keep it inside while it slowly consumes them.

It becomes apparent when you see people who condemn others based on belief, because it means the person casting the disparity has suffered from someone because that belief yet hasn't reconciled it in such a way that they are rational about the subject there after.

Suffering, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
I think we've all seen/experienced it. It's part of the human condition.

Suffering is relative and subject to perception. Suffering is a byproduct of pain.

Pain from certain losses are never "beautiful" although we can ease the suffering through understanding.

Why don't you test your mindset, why don't you find some people who have lost a child for instance, and see if like beauty if their suffering is simply "in the eye of the beholder"

I can save you a little time, since there is scientific proof that grief leads to physical breakdown of our body.

http://healthnews.uc.edu/news/?/15212/

I see suffering every day in the street, in the faces of the homeless and mentally disturbed (I live in the city). Suffering is ubiquitous. No parent would stand by and watch his children suffer without trying to do something about it. And, yet, the gods don't interject. If the billionaires of the world got together, they could easily end homelessness, yet they are more concerned with getting more billions. It's mystifying how they turn their backs on suffering, and in many cases are the cause of it. If I had the power to end suffering, I would do it, but, alas, I am only a man, not a god.

perfect example of apathy and why your interpretation of suffering is subjective your desires coupled by your projected (and defective) beliefs

You are just a man but billionaires are what? supermen?

Or are they displaying the human quality of greed which is a way we CHOOSE to express ourselves in this world?

Is greed a disease or a choice? and what kind of human does it make you if you look at what others do and make your choices on That, not based on the needs of those suffering around you?

Common, since this is a common mindset that breeds apathy.

If human suffering resonated so powerfully within you, you would do something to offset it, even if it were a small and personally relative action.

You choose to react to the greed of billionaires you don't know instead of the suffering in front of you.

And I know why, the problem seems bigger than you so why bother.

This is the beautiful thing about religions, they discuss these tenants of human nature, both negative and positive, and give us insight on how to achieve more than the least we can do.

Some people make their religion money and become billionaires and some people make their religion about people and become humanitarians.

Some people use the rest of the world as an excuse not to put in effort to live it as their believe it should be based on conscious and some people live life based on their own self fulfilling needs and desires.

We man not be able to individually change the world but we all contribute to the state of it.

Religion, science and humanity are maps your still the navigator
 

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
Trying to reason with someone who thinks evolution is "dangerous" is just pissing in the wind. You can't reason with the unreasonable. You can't be logical with the superstitious.
 

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
Many mental illnesses are subject to P=G+E.

I can provide the scientific back up for that one.

It is that simple.

My father lived a privileged life and had more than many people dream for.

His was very, very intelligent, and a cynic, he possessed a mindset similar to HST.

Didn't serve him or HST well, and since cynicism is a perception, it was a programming they let permeate there thinking so poignantly that it ended in life without meaning.

Would you like me to go into the depths of why I come to these conclusions? Both anecdotal and scientific?

Was HST mentally healthy when he took his own life because he saw no meaning in it?

Or was it the effect of cynicism dominating his being because when he judged the institutions of man (government, religion and the like) he so keenly focused on the narcissistic side of the human condition any notion of the other part of our being was lost on him all together.



No, I am being dead serious and I will tell you why I earn this qualification.

Most people pass the buck or keep it inside while it slowly consumes them.

It becomes apparent when you see people who condemn others based on belief, because it means the person casting the disparity has suffered from someone because that belief yet hasn't reconciled it in such a way that they are rational about the subject there after.



Suffering is relative and subject to perception. Suffering is a byproduct of pain.

Pain from certain losses are never "beautiful" although we can ease the suffering through understanding.

Why don't you test your mindset, why don't you find some people who have lost a child for instance, and see if like beauty if their suffering is simply "in the eye of the beholder"

I can save you a little time, since there is scientific proof that grief leads to physical breakdown of our body.

http://healthnews.uc.edu/news/?/15212/



perfect example of apathy and why your interpretation of suffering is subjective your desires coupled by your projected (and defective) beliefs

You are just a man but billionaires are what? supermen?

Or are they displaying the human quality of greed which is a way we CHOOSE to express ourselves in this world?

Is greed a disease or a choice? and what kind of human does it make you if you look at what others do and make your choices on That, not based on the needs of those suffering around you?

Common, since this is a common mindset that breeds apathy.

If human suffering resonated so powerfully within you, you would do something to offset it, even if it were a small and personally relative action.

You choose to react to the greed of billionaires you don't know instead of the suffering in front of you.

And I know why, the problem seems bigger than you so why bother.

This is the beautiful thing about religions, they discuss these tenants of human nature, both negative and positive, and give us insight on how to achieve more than the least we can do.

Some people make their religion money and become billionaires and some people make their religion about people and become humanitarians.

Some people use the rest of the world as an excuse not to put in effort to live it as their believe it should be based on conscious and some people live life based on their own self fulfilling needs and desires.

We man not be able to individually change the world but we all contribute to the state of it.

Religion, science and humanity are maps your still the navigator

You're not a psychoanalyst, but you play one on the internet. Your post is so full of holes and assumptions, that I am compelled to respond. Note that this is NOT personal for me. However, since I have a degree in psychology, and I am well read, and have read all of Hunter's books, I feel I am qualified to comment.
Mental illness is an illness. It runs in families, just as other diseases are inherited. Cynicism is not a mental illness. Depression is a mental illness, which usually precedes suicide. If you had three family members who committed suicide, chances are overwhelming that they suffered from a mental illness, namely depression in all likelihood. This is a hereditary disease, and is not caused by exposure to nuns.
Re: Hunter S. Thompson: Unless you knew the man personally, and had the credentials to psychoanalyze him, you do not know the cause of his suicide, but I'm willing to bet he was in a depressed state, and that moment got the best of him, much as it did to Robin Williams, who was not a cynic. Again, cynicism is not a mental illness. Depression is.
Re: Billionaires: My point was pretty obvious. People with that much money, have the power to change things dramatically. They could erect shelters/homes for all the homeless, but they choose to ignore the problem. They turn their backs on, and indeed exploit their fellow men. A good example of this is Steve Jobs. He felt the vast majority of people were beneath him, and indeed to such an extent, that if you were not among the six most intelligent people in the world according to his standards, he would not even speak to you. To him, it was O.K. to exploit millions of slave laborers, and cut their wages to the bone, in order to make more profit for himself. He was completely devoid of humanity. Many people who worked in the factories of his suppliers committed suicide, because their situation was so bleak.
Re: religion making the world a better place. I would argue the opposite. Religion is the root cause of many of the world's greatest problems. The greatest problem we face is overpopulation. It is the direct cause of the degradation of the environment, extinction of species, the breakdown of all systems, economic, social, environmental, etc., etc. etc. The year I was born, there were 3 billion people in the world. It took countless millennium to reach that number, but only an additional 50 years to double, and it is now over 7 billion, going on nine. This is why our oceans have become sewers, our rain forests grazing land for more cattle so we can crank out more burgers, our air toxic. Who has promoted this overpopulation? The two biggest religions in the world. The people who can least afford children are having the most, and these people are religious. The average female in Africa is having 7.2 babies, yet they have no means to feed, clothe, shelter, or educate them, but their religion tells them to keep breeding. This creates a world of refugees, who are now flooding our borders, degrading our standard of living, and at the same time, they are flooding Europe, gradually but steadily overwhelming their great cultures in favor of primitive barbarism, with the goal of takeover and the rise of sharia law. It's mass insanity, which is to be expected by people who believe in ghosts, not science. Look around the world, watch the news any day of the week, and see the acts of barbarism committed in the name of god. It's unimaginable. When people are suggestible, they are willing to strap on suicide vests to get to their imaginary god.
Since you believe in ghosts/fairy tales, perhaps you have been duped by an evil ghost. Let's call him Satan, and we can blame the world's evils on him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top