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No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

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your not comparing disease totals.look at the evidence you could find it online its not hard.my computer doesnt cut and paste so i cant post links.
 

DrFever

Active member
Veteran
how many cases of polio existed before the vaccine?!not that many do your research retro.what im getting at is they vaccinate for diseases we shouldnt be worring aabout and the ones that are scourging mankind they ignore.some vaccines use to contain heavy metals back in retro times so that explains alot.

holy crap Gene actually if you look at the graph it appears polio was sky rocketing at a alarming rate what if there was no vacine at the time or none today ??? what the graph shows is massive rates if not corrected it be outstanding rates today

http://vaccines.procon.org/view.additional-resource.php?resourceID=005964
 

waveguide

Active member
Veteran
..and how does modern culture and industry affect the spread of disease that modern culture and industry are "curing"?

how is industrial distribution as a disease vector... "don't worry, we have the cures for everything that we'll give you! for sanctioned members of society."

and you'll never hear any different.
 

DrFever

Active member
Veteran
As we move into the new millennium it is becoming increasingly clear that the biomedical sciences are entering the most exciting phase of their development. Paradoxically, medical practice is also passing through a phase of increasing uncertainty, in both industrial and developing countries. Industrial countries have not been able to solve the problem of the spiraling costs of health care resulting from technological development, public expectations, and—in particular—the rapidly increasing size of their elderly populations. The people of many developing countries are still living in dire poverty with dysfunctional health care systems and extremely limited access to basic medical care.

From the earliest documentary evidence surviving from the ancient civilizations of Babylonia, China, Egypt, and India, it is clear that longevity, disease, and death are among humanity's oldest preoccupations. From ancient times to the Renaissance, knowledge of the living world changed little, the distinction between animate and inanimate objects was blurred, and speculations about living things were based on prevailing ideas about the nature of matter.

Advances in science and philosophy throughout the 16th and 17th centuries led to equally momentous changes in medical sciences. The elegant anatomical dissections of Andreas Vesalius swept away centuries of misconceptions about the relationship between structure and function of the human body; the work of Isaac Newton, Robert Boyle, and Robert Hooke disposed of the basic Aristotelian elements of earth, air, fire, and water; and Hooke, through his development of the microscope, showed a hitherto invisible world to explore. In 1628, William Harvey described the circulation of the blood, a discovery that, because it was based on careful experiments and measurement, signaled the beginnings of modern scientific medicine.

After steady progress during the 18th century, the biological and medical sciences began to advance at a remarkable rate during the 19th century, which saw the genuine beginnings of modern scientific medicine. Charles Darwin changed the whole course of biological thinking, and Gregor Mendel laid the ground for the new science of genetics, which was used later to describe how Darwinian evolution came about. Louis Pasteur and Robert Koch founded modern microbiology, and Claude Bernard and his followers enunciated the seminal principle of the constancy of the internal environment of the body, a notion that profoundly influenced the development of physiology and biochemistry. With the birth of cell theory, modern pathology was established. These advances in the biological sciences were accompanied by practical developments at the bedside, including the invention of the stethoscope and an instrument for measuring blood pressure, the first use of x-rays, the development of anesthesia, and early attempts at the classification of psychiatric disease as well as a more humane approach to its management. The early development of the use of statistics for analyzing data obtained in medical practice also occurred in the 19th century, and the slow evolution of public health and preventive medicine began.

Significant advances in public health occurred on both sides of the Atlantic. After the cholera epidemics of the mid 19th century, public health boards were established in many European and American cities. The Public Health Act, passed in the United Kingdom in 1848, provided for the improvement of streets, construction of drains and sewers, collection of refuse, and procurement of clean domestic water supplies. Equally important, the first attempts were made to record basic health statistics. For example, the first recorded figures for the United States showed that life expectancy at birth for those who lived in Massachusetts in 1870 was 43 years; the number of deaths per 1,000 live births in the same population was 188. At the same time, because it was becoming increasingly clear that communicable diseases were greatly depleting the workforce required to generate the potential rewards of colonization, considerable efforts were channeled into controlling infectious diseases, particularly hookworm and malaria, in many countries under colonial domination.

However, until the 19th century, curative medical technology had little effect on the health of society, and many of the improvements over the centuries resulted from higher standards of living, improved nutrition, better hygiene, and other environmental modifications. The groundwork was laid for a dramatic change during the second half of the 20th century, although considerable controversy remains over how much we owe to the effect of scientific medicine and how much to continued improvements in our environment (Porter 1997).

This balance between the potential of the basic biological sciences and simpler public health measures for affecting the health of our societies in both industrial and developing countries remains controversial and is one of the major issues to be faced by those who plan the development of health care services for the future.

Go to:
Science, Technology, and Medicine in the 20th Century

Although rapid gains in life expectancy followed social change and public health measures, progress in the other medical sciences was slow during the first half of the 20th century, possibly because of the debilitating effect of two major world wars. The position changed dramatically after World War II, a time that many still believe was the period of major achievement in the biomedical sciences for improving the health of society. This section outlines some of these developments and the effect they have had on medical practice in both industrial and developing countries. More extensive treatments of this topic are available in several monographs (Cooter and Pickstone 2000; Porter 1997; Weatherall 1995).

Epidemiology and Public Health

Modern epidemiology came into its own after World War II, when increasingly sophisticated statistical methods were first applied to the study of noninfectious disease to analyze the patterns and associations of diseases in large populations. The emergence of clinical epidemiology marked one of the most important successes of the medical sciences in the 20th century.

Up to the 1950s, conditions such as heart attacks, stroke, cancer, and diabetes were bundled together as degenerative disorders, implying that they might be the natural result of wear and tear and the inevitable consequence of aging. However, information about their frequency and distribution, plus, in particular, the speed with which their frequency increased in association with environmental change, provided excellent evidence that many of them have a major environmental component. For example, death certificate rates for cancers of the stomach and lung rose so sharply between 1950 and 1973 that major environmental factors must have been at work generating these diseases in different populations.

The first major success of clinical epidemiology was the demonstration of the relationship between cigarette smoking and lung cancer by Austin Bradford Hill and Richard Doll in the United Kingdom. This work was later replicated in many studies, currently, tobacco is estimated to cause about 8.8 percent of deaths (4.9 million) and 4.1 percent of disability-adjusted life years (59.1 million) (WHO 2002c). Despite this information, the tobacco epidemic continues, with at least 1 million more deaths attributable to tobacco in 2000 than in 1990, mainly in developing countries.

The application of epidemiological approaches to the study of large populations over a long period has provided further invaluable information about environmental factors and disease. One of the most thorough—involving the follow-up of more than 50,000 males in Framingham, Massachusetts—showed unequivocally that a number of factors seem to be linked with the likelihood of developing heart disease (Castelli and Anderson 1986). Such work led to the concept of risk factors, among them smoking, diet (especially the intake of animal fats), blood cholesterol levels, obesity, lack of exercise, and elevated blood pressure. The appreciation by epidemiologists that focusing attention on interventions against low risk factors that involve large numbers of people, as opposed to focusing on the small number of people at high risk, was an important advance. Later, it led to the definition of how important environmental agents may interact with one another—the increased risk of death from tuberculosis in smokers in India, for example.

A substantial amount of work has gone into identifying risk factors for other diseases, such as hypertension, obesity and its accompaniments, and other forms of cancer. Risk factors defined in this way, and from similar analyses of the pathological role of environmental agents such as unsafe water, poor sanitation and hygiene, pollution, and others, form the basis of The World Health Report 2002 (WHO 2002c), which sets out a program for controlling disease globally by reducing 10 conditions: underweight status; unsafe sex; high blood pressure; tobacco consumption; alcohol consumption; unsafe water, sanitation, and hygiene; iron deficiency; indoor smoke from solid fuels; high cholesterol; and obesity. These conditions are calculated to account for more than one-third of all deaths worldwide.

The epidemiological approach has its limitations, however. Where risk factors seem likely to be heterogeneous or of only limited importance, even studies involving large populations continue to give equivocal or contradictory results. Furthermore, a major lack of understanding, on the part not just of the general public but also of those who administer health services, still exists about the precise meaning and interpretation of risk. The confusing messages have led to a certain amount of public cynicism about risk factors, thus diminishing the effect of information about those risk factors that have been established on a solid basis. Why so many people in both industrial and developing countries ignore risk factors that are based on solid data is still not clear; much remains to be learned about social, cultural, psychological, and ethnic differences with respect to education about important risk factors for disease. Finally, little work has been done regarding the perception of risk factors in the developing countries (WHO 2002c).

A more recent development in the field of clinical epidemiology—one that may have major implications for developing countries—stems from the work of Barker (2001) and his colleagues, who obtained evidence suggesting that death rates from cardiovascular disease fell progressively with increasing birthweight, head circumference, and other measures of increased development at birth. Further work has suggested that the development of obesity and type 2 diabetes, which constitute part of the metabolic syndrome, is also associated with low birthweight. The notion that early fetal development may have important consequences for disease in later life is still under evaluation, but its implications, particularly for developing countries, may be far reaching.

The other major development that arose from the application of statistics to medical research was the development of the randomized controlled trial. The principles of numerically based experimental design were set out in the 1920s by the geneticist Ronald Fisher and applied with increasing success after World War II, starting with the work of Hill, Doll, and Cochrane (see Chalmers 1993; Doll 1985). Variations on this theme have become central to every aspect of clinical research involving the assessment of different forms of treatment. More recently, this approach has been extended to provide broad-scale research syntheses to help inform health care and research. Increasing the numbers of patients involved in trials and applying meta-analysis and electronic technology for updating results have made it possible to provide broad-scale analyses combining the results of many different trials. Although meta-analysis has its problems—notably the lack of publication of negative trial data—and although many potential sources of bias exist in the reporting of clinical trials, these difficulties are gradually being addressed (Egger, Davey-Smith, and Altman 2001).

More recent developments in this field come under the general heading of evidence-based medicine (EBM) (Sackett and others 1996). Although it is self-evident that the medical profession should base its work on the best available evidence, the rise of EBM as a way of thinking has been a valuable addition to the development of good clinical practice over the years. It covers certain skills that are not always self-evident, including finding and appraising evidence and, particularly, implementation—that is, actually getting research into practice. Its principles are equally germane to industrial and developing countries, and the skills required, particularly numerical, will have to become part of the education of physicians of the future. To this end, the EBM Toolbox was established (Web site: http://www.ish.ox.ac.uk/ebh.html). However, evidence for best practice obtained from large clinical trials may not always apply to particular patients; obtaining a balance between better EBM and the kind of individualized patient care that forms the basis for good clinical practice will be a major challenge for medical education.

Partial Control of Infectious Disease

The control of communicable disease has been the major advance of the 20th century in scientific medicine. It reflects the combination of improved environmental conditions and public health together with the development of immunization, antimicrobial chemotherapy, and the increasing ability to identify new pathogenic organisms. Currently, live or killed viral or bacterial vaccines—or those based on bacterial polysaccharides or bacterial toxoids—are licensed for the control of 29 common communicable diseases worldwide. The highlight of the field was the eradication of smallpox by 1977. The next target of the World Health Organization (WHO) is the global eradication of poliomyelitis. In 1998, the disease was endemic in more than 125 countries. After a resurgence in 2002, when the number of cases rose to 1,918, the numbers dropped again in 2003 to 748; by March 2004, only 32 cases had been confirmed (Roberts 2004).

The Expanded Program on Immunization (EPI), launched in 1974, which has been taken up by many countries with slight modification, includes Bacillus Calmette-Guérin (BCG) and oral polio vaccine at birth; diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis at 6, 10, and 14 weeks; measles; and, where relevant, yellow fever at 9 months. Hepatitis B is added at different times in different communities. By 1998, hepatitis B vaccine had been incorporated into the national programs of 90 countries, but an estimated 70 percent of the world's hepatitis B carriers still live in countries without programs (Nossal 1999). Indeed, among 12 million childhood deaths analyzed in 1998, almost 4 million were the result of diseases for which adequate vaccines are available (WHO 2002a).

The development of sulfonamides and penicillin in the period preceding World War II was followed by a remarkable period of progress in the discovery of antimicrobial agents effective against bacteria, fungi, viruses, protozoa, and helminths. Overall, knowledge of the pharmacological mode of action of these agents is best established for antibacterial and antiviral drugs. Antibacterial agents may affect cell wall or protein synthesis, nucleic acid formation, or critical metabolic pathways. Because viruses live and replicate in host cells, antiviral chemotherapy has presented a much greater challenge. However, particularly with the challenge posed by HIV/AIDS, a wide range of antiviral agents has been developed, most of which are nucleoside analogues, nucleoside or nonnucleoside reverse-transcriptase inhibitors, or protease inhibitors. Essentially, those agents interfere with critical self-copying or assembly functions of viruses or retroviruses. Knowledge of the modes of action of antifungal and antiparasitic agents is increasing as well.

Resistance to antimicrobial agents has been recognized since the introduction of effective antibiotics; within a few years, penicillin-resistant strains of Staphylococcus aureus became widespread and penicillin-susceptible strains are now very uncommon (Finch and Williams 1999). At least in part caused by the indiscriminate use of antibiotics in medical practice, animal husbandry, and agriculture, multiple-antibiotic-resistant bacteria are now widespread. Resistance to antiviral agents is also occurring with increasing frequency (Perrin and Telenti 1998), and drug resistance to malaria has gradually increased in frequency and distribution across continents (Noedl, Wongsrichanalai, and Wernsdorfer 2003). The critical issue of drug resistance to infectious agents is covered in detail in chapter 55.

In summary, although the 20th century witnessed remarkable advances in the control of communicable disease, the current position is uncertain. The emergence of new infectious agents, as evidenced by the severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) epidemic in 2002, is a reminder of the constant danger posed by the appearance of novel organisms; more than 30 new infective agents have been identified since 1970. Effective vaccines have not yet been developed for some of the most common infections—notably tuberculosis, malaria, and HIV—and rapidly increasing populations of organisms are resistant to antibacterial and antiviral agents. Furthermore, development of new antibiotics and effective antiviral agents with which to control such agents has declined. The indiscriminate use of antibiotics, both in the community and in the hospital populations of the industrial countries, has encouraged the emergence of resistance, a phenomenon exacerbated in some of the developing countries by the use of single antimicrobial agents when combinations would have been less likely to produce resistant strains. Finally, public health measures have been hampered by the rapid movement of populations and by war, famine, and similar social disruptions in developing countries. In short, the war against communicable disease is far from over.

Pathogenesis, Control, and Management of Non-communicable Disease

The second half of the 20th century also yielded major advances in understanding pathophysiology and in managing many common noncommunicable diseases. This phase of development of the medical sciences has been characterized by a remarkable increase in the acquisition of knowledge about the biochemical and physiological basis of disease, information that, combined with some remarkable developments in the pharmaceutical industry, has led to a situation in which few noncommunicable diseases exist for which there is no treatment and many, although not curable, can be controlled over long periods of time.

Many of these advances have stemmed from medical research rather than improved environmental conditions. In 1980, Beeson published an analysis of the changes that occurred in the management of important diseases between the years 1927 and 1975, based on a comparison of methods for treating these conditions in the 1st and 14th editions of a leading American medical textbook. He found that of 181 conditions for which little effective prevention or treatment had existed in 1927, at least 50 had been managed satisfactorily by 1975. Furthermore, most of these advances seem to have stemmed from the fruits of basic and clinical research directed at the understanding of disease mechanisms (Beeson 1980; Comroe and Dripps 1976).

Modern cardiology is a good example of the evolution of scientific medicine. The major technical advances leading to a better appreciation of the physiology and pathology of the heart and circulation included studies of its electrical activity by electrocardiography; the ability to catheterize both sides of the heart; the development of echocardiography; and, more recently, the development of sophisticated ways of visualizing the heart by computerized axial tomography, nuclear magnetic resonance, and isotope scanning. These valuable tools and the development of specialized units to use them have led to a much better understanding of the physiology of the failing heart and of the effects of coronary artery disease and have revolutionized the management of congenital heart disease. Those advances have been backed by the development of effective drugs for the management of heart disease, including diuretics, beta-blockers, a wide variety of antihypertensive agents, calcium-channel blockers, and anticoagulants.

By the late 1960s, surgical techniques were developed to relieve obstruction of the coronary arteries. Coronary bypass surgery and, later, balloon angioplasty became major tools. Progress also occurred in treatment of abnormalities of cardiac rhythm, both pharmacologically and by the implantation of artificial pacemakers. More recently, the development of microelectronic circuits has made it possible to construct implantable pacemakers. Following the success of renal transplantation, cardiac transplantation and, later, heart and lung transplantation also became feasible.

Much of this work has been backed up by large-scale controlled clinical trials. These studies, for example, showed that the early use of clot-dissolving drugs together with aspirin had a major effect on reducing the likelihood of recurrences after an episode of myocardial infarction (figure 5.1). The large number of trials and observational studies of the effects of coronary bypass surgery and dilatation of the coronary arteries with balloons have given somewhat mixed results, although overall little doubt exists that, at least in some forms of coronary artery disease, surgery is able to reduce pain from angina and probably prolong life. Similar positive results have been obtained in trials that set out to evaluate the effect of the control of hypertension (Warrell and others 2003).
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
..and how does modern culture and industry affect the spread of disease that modern culture and industry are "curing"?

how is industrial distribution as a disease vector... "don't worry, we have the cures for everything that we'll give you! for sanctioned members of society."

and you'll never hear any different.

Almost sounds like a plot for a movie.

picture.php
 

trichrider

Kiss My Ring
Veteran
Destiny is the inferior and instinctive part of Universal Nature which I have called nature naturée. Its own action is called fatality. The form by which it manifests itself to us is called necessity; it is this which links cause and effect. The three kingdoms of the elementary nature, mineral, vegetable, and animal, are the domain of Destiny; that is to say, everything comes to pass in a manner fatal and forced, according to laws determined beforehand. Destiny gives the principle of nothing but takes possession of it as soon as it is given in order to dominate the consequences. It is by the necessity of these consequences alone that it influences the future and makes itself felt in the present; for all that it possesses personally is in the past. Thus by Destiny we understand that power by which we conceive that the things created are created, that they are thus not otherwise, and that once placed according to their nature they have forced results which are developed successively and necessarily.

At the time when Man appears upon the earth he belongs to Destiny, which for a long time involves him in this vortex and at first subject to its influence as all elementary beings, he carries in him a divine germ which never could entirely be confused with him. This germ, reacted upon by Destiny itself, develops to oppose it. It is a spark of the divine Will which, participating in the universal life, comes into the elementary nature to restore harmony in it. As this germ develops, it operates according to its energy upon forced things, and operates freely upon them. Liberty is its essence. The mystery of its principle is such that its energy augments proportionally as it exerts itself and that its force although indefinitely restrained is never vanquished. When this germ is entirely developed, it constitutes the Will of the Universal Man, one of the three great powers of the Universe. This power, equal to that of Destiny which is inferior to it and even to that of Providence which is superior to it, is quickened only by God Himself to whom the others are equally subjected, each according to his rank, as I have already said. It is the Will of Man, which, as powerful a medium, unites Destiny and Providence; without it, these two extreme powers not only would never unite, but they would not even understand each other. This Will, in revealing its activity, modifies the coexistent things, creates new ones which become immediately the property of Destiny, and prepares for the future consequences in that which is about to be.

Providence is the superior and intellectual part of Universal Nature, which I have called nature naturante. It is a living law emanating from the Divinity, by means of which all things are determined with power to be. All inferior principles emanate from it; all causes draw from its depths their origin and their force. The aim of Providence is the perfection of all beings, and this perfection it receives from God Himself, the irrefutable Type. The means that it has to attain this end is what we call Time. But time does not exist for it according to our ideas. It conceives it as a movement of eternity. This supreme power acts only immediately upon universal things; but this action by a chain of consequences can make itself felt as a mediator for particular things; so that the smallest details of human life can be interested in it, or can be deduced from it, according as they are bound by invisible bonds to universal events. Man is a divine germ which it sows in the fatality of Destiny, so as to change it and to render it master by means of the Will of this mediatory being. This Will, being essentially free, can exercise itself as well upon the action of Providence as upon that of Destiny; but with this difference, however, that, if it really changes the event of Destiny which was fixed and necessary and that by opposing necessity to necessity and Destiny to Destiny, it can do nothing against the providential event precisely because it is indifferent in its form and because it always reaches its goal by any route whatsoever. It is time and form alone which vary. Providence is enchained neither by the one nor the other. The only difference is for Man, who changes the forms of life, shortens or lengthens time, enjoys or suffers, according as he accomplishes good or evil; that is to say, according as he unites his particular action to the universal action or as he discriminates it.

http://hermetic.com/dolivet/hermeneutic-interpretation/introductory-dissertation-iv.html
 

trichrider

Kiss My Ring
Veteran
(ll. 75-103) These things, then, the Muses sang who dwell on Olympus, nine daughters begotten by great Zeus, Cleio and Euterpe, Thaleia, Melpomene and Terpsichore, and Erato and Polyhymnia and Urania and Calliope (3), who is the chiefest of them all, for she attends on worshipful princes: whomsoever of heaven-nourished princes the daughters of great Zeus honour, and behold him at his birth, they pour sweet dew upon his tongue, and from his lips flow gracious words. All the people look towards him while he settles causes with true judgements: and he, speaking surely, would soon make wise end even of a great quarrel; for therefore are there princes wise in heart, because when the people are being misguided in their assembly, they set right the matter again with ease, persuading them with gentle words. And when he passes through a gathering, they greet him as a god with gentle reverence, and he is conspicuous amongst the assembled: such is the holy gift of the Muses to men. For it is through the Muses and far-shooting Apollo that there are singers and harpers upon the earth; but princes are of Zeus, and happy is he whom the Muses love: sweet flows speech from his mouth. For though a man have sorrow and grief in his newly-troubled soul and live in dread because his heart is distressed, yet, when a singer, the servant of the Muses, chants the glorious deeds of men of old and the blessed gods who inhabit Olympus, at once he forgets his heaviness and remembers not his sorrows at all; but the gifts of the goddesses soon turn him away from these.
 

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
what if there was no vaccine at the time or none today?

If there were no vaccines, the following diseases would still be running rampant:


Chickenpox (Varicella): Var, MMRV
Diphtheria: DTaP, Td, Tdap
Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib): Hib
Hepatitis: Hep A, Hep B
Human Papillomavirus (HPV) Infection: HPV4
Influenza: TIV, LAIV
Measles (Rubeola): MMR, MMRV
Meningococcal: MCV, MPSV
Mumps: MMR, MMRV
Pertussis (Whooping Cough): DTaP, DTP, Tdap
Pneumococcal: PCV, PPSV
Polio: IPV
Rabies
Rotavirus: RV1, RV5
Rubella (German Measles): MMR, MMRV
Shingles (Herpes Zoster): Zos
Tetanus (Lockjaw): DT, DTaP, Td, Tdap

The village idiot might not have been born?
 
if you did your research retro you would find that a healthy body will clear all of those diseases or viruses you mentioned without help from a vaccine.what the body cant get rid of is heart diseases,cancer,hep-c,aids,lupus ect...the list is way longer and more of a threat to the human body than your silly little list of mostly childhood diseases that is completely normal for the human body to contract and clear on its own.you sound like a poster child for big pharma or the fda.you are sciences bitch
 

trichrider

Kiss My Ring
Veteran
..."For everything that exists there are three instruments by which the knowledge of it is necessarily imparted; fourth, there is the knowledge itself, and, as fifth, we must count the thing itself which is known and truly exists. The first is the name, the, second the definition, the third. the image, and the fourth the knowledge. If you wish to learn what I mean, take these in the case of one instance, and so understand them in the case of all. A circle is a thing spoken of, and its name is that very word which we have just uttered. The second thing belonging to it is its definition, made up names and verbal forms. For that which has the name "round," "annular," or, "circle," might be defined as that which has the distance from its circumference to its centre everywhere equal. Third, comes that which is drawn and rubbed out again, or turned on a lathe and broken up-none of which things can happen to the circle itself-to which the other things, mentioned have reference; for it is something of a different order from them. Fourth, comes knowledge, intelligence and right opinion about these things. Under this one head we must group everything which has its existence, not in words nor in bodily shapes, but in souls-from which it is dear that it is something different from the nature of the circle itself and from the three things mentioned before. Of these things intelligence comes closest in kinship and likeness to the fifth, and the others are farther distant.

The same applies to straight as well as to circular form, to colours, to the good, the, beautiful, the just, to all bodies whether manufactured or coming into being in the course of nature, to fire, water, and all such things, to every living being, to character in souls, and to all things done and suffered. For in the case of all these, no one, if he has not some how or other got hold of the four things first mentioned, can ever be completely a partaker of knowledge of the fifth. Further, on account of the weakness of language, these (i.e., the four) attempt to show what each thing is like, not less than what each thing is. For this reason no man of intelligence will venture to express his philosophical views in language, especially not in language that is unchangeable, which is true of that which is set down in written characters.

Again you must learn the point which comes next. Every circle, of those which are by the act of man drawn or even turned on a lathe, is full of that which is opposite to the fifth thing. For everywhere it has contact with the straight. But the circle itself, we say, has nothing in either smaller or greater, of that which is its opposite. We say also that the name is not a thing of permanence for any of them, and that nothing prevents the things now called round from being called straight, and the straight things round; for those who make changes and call things by opposite names, nothing will be less permanent (than a name). Again with regard to the definition, if it is made up of names and verbal forms, the same remark holds that there is no sufficiently durable permanence in it. And there is no end to the instances of the ambiguity from which each of the four suffers; but the greatest of them is that which we mentioned a little earlier, that, whereas there are two things, that which has real being, and that which is only a quality, when the soul is seeking to know, not the quality, but the essence, each of the four, presenting to the soul by word and in act that which it is not seeking (i.e., the quality), a thing open to refutation by the senses, being merely the thing presented to the soul in each particular case whether by statement or the act of showing, fills, one may say, every man with puzzlement and perplexity.

Now in subjects in which, by reason of our defective education, we have not been accustomed even to search for the truth, but are satisfied with whatever images are presented to us, we are not held up to ridicule by one another, the questioned by questioners, who can pull to pieces and criticise the four things. But in subjects where we try to compel a man to give a clear answer about the fifth, any one of those who are capable of overthrowing an antagonist gets the better of us, and makes the man, who gives an exposition in speech or writing or in replies to questions, appear to most of his hearers to know nothing of the things on which he is attempting to write or speak; for they are sometimes not aware that it is not the mind of the writer or speaker which is proved to be at fault, but the defective nature of each of the four instruments. The process however of dealing with all of these, as the mind moves up and down to each in turn, does after much effort give birth in a well-constituted mind to knowledge of that which is well constituted. But if a man is ill-constituted by nature (as the state of the soul is naturally in the majority both in its capacity for learning and in what is called moral character)-or it may have become so by deterioration-not even Lynceus could endow such men with the power of sight.

In one word, the man who has no natural kinship with this matter cannot be made akin to it by quickness of learning or memory; for it cannot be engendered at all in natures which are foreign to it. Therefore, if men are not by nature kinship allied to justice and all other things that are honourable, though they may be good at learning and remembering other knowledge of various kinds-or if they have the kinship but are slow learners and have no memory-none of all these will ever learn to the full the truth about virtue and vice. For both must be learnt together; and together also must be learnt, by complete and long continued study, as I said at the beginning, the true and the false about all that has real being. After much effort, as names, definitions, sights, and other data of sense, are brought into contact and friction one with another, in the course of scrutiny and kindly testing by men who proceed by question and answer without ill will, with a sudden flash there shines forth understanding about every problem, and an intelligence whose efforts reach the furthest limits of human powers. Therefore every man of worth, when dealing with matters of worth, will be far from exposing them to ill feeling and misunderstanding among men by committing them to writing. In one word, then, it may be known from this that, if one sees written treatises composed by anyone, either the laws of a lawgiver, or in any other form whatever, these are not for that man the things of most worth, if he is a man of worth, but that his treasures are laid up in the fairest spot that he possesses. But if these things were worked at by him as things of real worth, and committed to writing, then surely, not gods, but men "have themselves bereft him of his wits."
...
http://hermetic.com/texts/plato/seventh.html
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
Being born from the human mind there is no concept that should be foreign or beyond comprehension. Our DNA is written in such a way we are wired to understand it. Thus the capacity for universal translation of all dogmas and philosophies.

The problem lies in the cacophony of maligned environmentals that diminish the genetic capacity to realize it.
 

trichrider

Kiss My Ring
Veteran
i'd like to revisit the karma concept.

karma as the cause of overpopulation.

think it this way. we've been acculturated to behave in a fashion contrary to spirit through immersive media promoting selfish activities and foul behaviors.

reincarnation being assured by self imposed barriers to advancement to higher planes through inculcation of those attitudes of activity.

while stasis rests on a percentage of spirits' advancement, the pool of souls grows from those 'left behind to try again'.

just strumming the heart strings....
 

DrFever

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One of the most amazing stories about animal instincts is the 7 generation lifespan of a Monarch Butterfly family. Each spring, Monarchs begin the annual migration pattern away from a small mountain range in Mexico and begin their journey up north. Each successive generation flies 400-500 miles, lays eggs and dies. The eggs are hatched, the caterpillars mature and become butterflies, only to carry on the northward flight. Approximately the 7th generation however, eats differently and saves all of it’s energy for the 2500 mile flight back to the very exact same tree their great, great, great, great grandfather left many months earlier. How can this much information, with the precision of a GPS device, be retained after 7 generations of insects no larger than the size of a leaf?

Neither Darwinists nor Intelligent Design proponents can begin to explain the answer to this question using their respective theories. However, researchers like Bruce Lipton in the field of epigenetics and Rupert Sheldrake and his theory of morphogenic fields and many others are beginning to postulate that a component of consciousness is at play here. However, neither of these theories really begins to provide an explanation for how plants and animals have evolved on this planet. And Andre Linde, whose theories regarding the Big Bang were recently validated, has stated that he believes that consciousness will become part of Scientific Law within the next 100 years, paving the way for a unification between science and spirituality.

The bridge between Darwin’s theory of Evolution and the theory of Intelligent Design begins to be constructed when you incorporate the concepts of karma and reincarnation into the overall equation of evolution. Even if you are a non-believer in either karma or reincarnation, the inclusion of the two ideas into the overall mechanism for either theory of how life developed on this planet automatically begins to resolve the question marks. The mystery of how such an incredible amount of diverse and perfect life forms developed on this planet from primitive microbial life starts to be revealed.

According to the science of Vedanta, when a person is conceived, 50% of the impressions on their consciousness come from their parents and 50% come from their previous birth. This explains why children from the same mother and father can have such radically different physical and psychological traits. Of course, this type of equation could never be proven (or more to the point, disproven) using the Modern Scientific Method and so it’s difficult for westerners to move on from here. This intellectual obstacle could also be compared to the square root of negative one, otherwise known as an imaginary number: since no number multiplied by itself can result in a negative number, the square root of any negative number can’t exist, so they are called ‘imaginary’.

However, mathematicians and scientists commonly use imaginary numbers and irrational numbers to solve complex equations which couldn’t possibly be solved any other way. Coincidentally, Schrödinger’s famous Wave Function, which is a centerpiece of Quantum Mechanics, was resolved using the square root of negative one. In much the same way, karma and reincarnation (which some scientists would argue as being irrational) can be used to resolve the complexity of the mechanism behind evolution. Operating under the assumption that half of an organism’s instincts (or karma) comes from their parents and half comes from their previous birth, you can begin to formulate a model that explains how all of brilliantly diverse plant and animal species on Earth has come into existence.

When you stop to consider that it wasn’t random mutations that drove evolutionary change, but rather programmed DNA modifications coming from an epigenetic blueprint based on information stored in the consciousness of the organism from both its previous birth and its parents, you mold a new paradigm of evolution that incorporates some of the Intelligent Design concepts along with Darwin’s theories.

According to Vedanta, the design, the designer and the designed are all one, which implies that there is merit to the Intelligent Design theory but what advocates for the Intelligent Design theory are not factoring in to their position is the idea that the entire cosmic dance has not been an overall design created billions of years ago, but a vibrant and dynamic river of change that is an everlasting intermingling of the seen and the unseen. Between the manifest and the un-manifest.
 
monarch butterflies are almost extinct because of the demonic science that monsanto uses.thats evolution at work thats what the shitty human race has evolved to do make chemicals that kill shit.
 
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