nitrogen or magnesium def?

[agent 420]

the yellowing of the leaves could be from a dozen different things.
It could be an N def.
It could be the natural process.
It could be overwatering.
They all sound like logical reasonable guesses to me. But thats just it, they're all guesses. We don't know every detail and facet of Khaleels' grow, we aren't there so we can only make educated guesses and recommendations.
Khaleel, try a few different things and see what works for you. With time and experience, you'll find the best knowledge of this special plant comes from within.

 

[khaleel]

oldfamilyred: 60 days? the website i ordered them from say only 50-56... i was planning on harvest around 50 just to keep them a bit cerebral. do you think the extra ten days would put that much more weight on? don't want couchlock stone. that's what my Super Ice is for.

10K: yup. i changed the nutes the day they went to the bloom room. the plan sounds good: i'll dry em out (not going overboard), give 'em a good low-dose flush, then bump up bloom nutes. the buds still look fine, so as long as they aren't going downhill i think the harvest will still be great. honestly they've already surpassed what i thought floro's could do.

agent420: word.

thanks guys. this place is a killer community.

 

[MynameStitch]

Sorry about the topic deviation khaleel, but I need to address this here and now with stitch.

MyNameStitch....
Here we go again... I don't know why it always has to be like pulling teeth on every time (of several corrections to date) I've asked you to correct things in your nute def compilation paper. This particular one was pointed out to you a long long time ago. Whats up ?

This is a picture you have in the def guide, of a small plant in very late flowering, which YOU labeled as an N deficiency. This is very misleading info to say the least.

you said...
"(Picture 2 is a Nitrogen Deficiency in late Flowering)(Thanks to BillyBob for the Picture)"

to THAT I'll now say again...
Your nute def compilation paper really needs to speak of whats totally normal (and to be expected) in flowering instead of making new growers think they have some kind of a problem worth worrying about.

AND...
Robert C. Clarke writes, in chapter four of mj botany.
first sentance of the first paragraph under the section labeled:
"Late Floral Stage

By this stage plants are well past the main reproductive phase and their health has begun to decline. Many of the larger leaves have dropped off, and some of the small inner leaves begin to change color."

nuff said stitch ?
Please fix it asap MNS.
Let me know when you're ready and I'll unlock it for you.

I hope you read all this clearly....... ALso if you want to talk to me, please do so in a PM I do not like sitting here arguing about stuff.

WHy post this in this thread this is total change of subject we are not talking about the sick plants guide; we are talking about this....... You could have posted this in the split thread you did... and why did you lock the thread in the first place?


THat was not changed because I forgot about it not to mention I just came back posted recently I was gone for a long time you can check my post dates iif you do not believe me.

AS for the guide I will change that; unlock it; but as for the advice I gave in this thread I will stick by it, because I have had experience in this issue. I have seen the difference. As for the quote.... all books say something different it is how the grower feels on this matter. Everyone has different advice on this matter... my advice is what I give... this is just like fighting over what medium is best to use for cloning.... there is no one answer! THe plant in this thread has flowering time left and I the adviced I gave came from experience also came from the info I read in the growfaqs

There is no one way to grow a plant; no one is pulling teeth; I was very clear that I was not fighting with you but just answering YOUR questions you asked me and you get angry at me for answering your questions? but you seem to think I am fighting with you just because I go against what you say and you get ticked off.... why? No one was fighting you got very pissed off, not everyone is correct on growing advice not even me. You get too hot under the collar. It's extremely clear you do not like me; not my fault.... can't win them all.

So again this picture and the picture in the sick plants guide are 2 different plants at 2 different stages of flowering; I was not thinking when I used the picture to show a defieicncy because I thought everyone knew that flushing is important the last 2 weeks of flowering, because it was stated in the growfaq.

again the growfaqs state the advice I given I will find the links I am talking about.

here is the link
This is in the growfaqs; I am getting sick of getting pissed on and yelled at when the information I give is from the stuff I learned from people and mainly the overgrow growfaq and I get told I am wrong....... but you told me many times all the information to know is in the growfaqs. I have been told this is for soil too not just hydroponics; was told by an overgrow mentor long time ago.

http://www.growfaq.net/index.php?ac...hlight=flushing

It is best keeping as many leaves green on the plant until week 5 or 6. Then, metabolize the remaining minerals present in the plant during the final 2 or 3 weeks. Total dissolved solids in the final flushing solution is between 400-500ppm. In hydroponics, it is important not to reduce the solution ppm much lower, as this will shock the plants by causing reverse osmotic pressure on the roots. The plant stores excess nutrients in the plant tissue, that are available for photosynthesis. If there is a lack of available nutrients to the roots, the plant will access these reserves and the final product will burn, smell and taste far better.

By this stage plants are well past the main reproductive phase and their health has begun to decline. Many of the larger leaves have dropped off, and some of the small inner leaves begin to change color

That does not tell me anything,because it does not list stage specific meaning what days or around what days of flowering it just says by this stage and "this stage" is not listed as to what stage of the plant is in how many days left.
See why I said what I did?

or are you going to say the growfaqs is wrong? I showed you many things in the growfaqs and you tell me every time that it should not have been there in the first place..... I asked you few questions from my post previous to this one but you did not answer them you went right to the sick plants guide when that was a completely different subject, because that picture is of a plant that is much later in flowering than the one in this thread. Again I am not fighting just asking questions like everyone else does and I get yelled at for it wth.

You want to get pissed off at someone who really gives bad advice????

go look at Black Velvet!!! that dude spits out piss poor advice with every post.

Again, I am not fighting nor yelling at you nor flaming..... you asked me why I gave the advice I did,why I said it and I answered your questions just how you asked and gave proof. So I am finished, because I have nothing more to prove or discuss about this unless it's got something to do with the sick plants guide; but as for this thread I am done discussing this matter, because it never ends.

 

[Guest]

oldfamilyred: 60 days? the website i ordered them from say only 50-56... i was planning on harvest around 50 just to keep them a bit cerebral. do you think the extra ten days would put that much more weight on? don't want couchlock stone. that's what my Super Ice is for.

10K: yup. i changed the nutes the day they went to the bloom room. the plan sounds good: i'll dry em out (not going overboard), give 'em a good low-dose flush, then bump up bloom nutes. the buds still look fine, so as long as they aren't going downhill i think the harvest will still be great. honestly they've already surpassed what i thought floro's could do.

agent420: word.

thanks guys. this place is a killer community.

thats all up to you, and th plant enjoy

 

[10k]

Wow stitch nobodys talking about flushing.

Thats what I mean about pulling teeth. You confuse the issue with all this boohoo crap about you dont like me, the growfaqs and flushing, which has zero to do with the topic, and then you admit the def guide is incorrect and say you'll fix it...
But here again like always, you throw in the same ol same ol stubborn refusal and oh yea I forgot thing, just like the clone lighting issue you had bassackwards that I finally had to go in and fix for you and the community after going circular to infinity with the same ol sheit. I do notice nowadays your advice in threads re clone light distance do agree with me, the general consensus and the corrected paragraph in your guide.

Lets have a good look...So from your own words in your post above...

The oh yea I forgot...

THat was not changed because I forgot about it not to mention I just came back posted recently I was gone for a long time you can check my post dates iif you do not believe me.

AS for the guide I will change that; unlock it

The you just don't like me comment you always make...
Even Dutchgrown has explained to you that it's only about making the guide here in this forum correct and accurate, and NOT about personality or fighting... We love you and the nute def guide you've compiled.

extremely clear you do not like me; not my fault.... can't win them all

The conflagration of the whole issue by you dragging in some non pertainent faq flushing excuse. No stitch, the def guide issue is about late stage yellowing and NOT about flushing..which no doubt will lead to another circular go round about correcting the guide....

So again this picture and the picture in the sick plants guide are 2 different plants at 2 different stages of flowering; I was not thinking when I used the picture to show a defieicncy because I thought everyone knew that flushing is important the last 2 weeks of flowering, because it was stated in the growfaq.

Again, its like pulling teeth ! Always to be expected the refusal closing remarks. I don't appreciate your way always trying to kharma whore the issue and makeanyone who disagrees with you look like a flammer, instead of someone who's trying to get the guide dialed in further for the good of the community. Thats WHY I'm here in this forum, as has been explained to you by Dutchgrown in past teeth pulling/sessions for error corrections.

So I am finished, because I have nothing more to prove or discuss about this unless it's got something to do with the sick plants guide; but as for this thread I am done discussing this matter, because it never ends.

/\ Dangit mns, I have nothing against you. My only concern is that your guide be accurate and not misleading people to the wrong direction as has been the case with each and every request (tooth pulling session for anyone who shows you an error) for you to fix various areas of that guide. I lost count of all the areas team GrowFaq and overgrow members addressed in the guide.

And you already know why the guide thread is closed with a link to the split for members to follow up for further questions, comments, contributions and corrections. But I'll repeat it anyway...It was originally split, leaving the guide stand on its own with a link to the open thread for comments questions correction requests and contributions etc, but several folks decided to ignore the linked thread and replied to the stickied standalone guide instead of the reply thread. Plus if it's locked, it stays corrected.

So lets read the oh yea I forgot...I'll fix it no problem comment...

THat was not changed because I forgot about it not to mention I just came back posted recently I was gone for a long time you can check my post dates iif you do not believe me.

AS for the guide I will change that; unlock it

So whats it going to be MyNameStitch ?
You'll edit into the n def section an explaination of what is normal and to be expected in late stage flowering (no flushing involved) ?
Or do we have to go circular "pulling teeth" arguement..novacain included ?

 

[FRANKENBLUNT420]

^^^all that^^^

is why i take everything i read on here with a grain of salt. i look and search until my eyes are blood shot and when i find what i need, i still pm that person that posted the info or a person who had had many grows under their belt and not awhole load of rep. and i STILL get advice from the tops guys.

half the crap people on her tell you 'not to do to" because thats what "THEY" have experienced, its not to say that it will be the same for each person, and thats something WE ALL can attest to.

there are certain basic rules for soil and certain basic rules for hydro, once those arent followed then crap starts to become "deficient". and half of the systems on here seem to be bassackwards anyway, take stitches case. he was probalby new when he started and got the newbie treatment with that age old quote that everyone tells every newbie. . . and what is that boys and girls?? . . everybody together ((("check the faq!!! its all in there!!!)))

now this poor soul (mynamestitch)spews crap from the faq and gets blasted for it? word to the wise: find someone on here that has had true growing experience and ask THEM questions, if you cant pm then put something in their guest book.

getting the right info is so important, and to the newbie: get a couple of bag seeds in the medium you want to use, FU*K those plants up, learn the ins and outs, try different things on your own and THEN come up with questions. i ave to be honest that although my brother and i really cant get along it seems, i will always praise him as a grower, he built his system, first time is hydro, and he is making leaps and bounds as far as his learning experience and all from bag seed.

***just to let all know, i posted this here because once others read it , they need to see the other side of the coin as far as how information is misconstrued, and as we all have expereinced sometimes it just aint in the faq!!! (i.e. - 10k reaming mynamestitch) and can be twisted, and hell i posted a pic of two leaves in the infirmary and have yet to get a response about them, and i dare anyone to look at them and tell me whats goin on withem cause those damned things are 4 different colors!!!

 

[10k]

/\ Is that just a personal attack, or are you trolling me for the hell of it ?
I have NOT "blasted" mynamestitch. I guess you'll never know how this def guide compilation paper has evolved over the years. It is a guide 'compiled' using words and advice from the overgrow community, and now this community.
All that was ever credited was a few comments and the photos btw.
You should have seen the first draft. :/

ps...as for the dare frankenblunt, you gave no link to your post with the two pictures. You only have one thread here in the infirmary and it has no pictures, but several replies.

I suggest no further members get involved with my nute guide ammendment discussion with MNS if its an opinion about personalities. This isnt a pissing contest and admin will check in soon.

 

[MynameStitch]

Edit: I erased this post and sent you a pm 10k

We love you and the nute def guide you've compiled.

Aww now isnt that cute <3 ::hug::

I have never refused to fix something that was wrong; I was not giving you hell about changing what was in the guide; I will fix anything that is wrong I have no problem with that; what I was trying to be stubborn on was the advice I gave in the thread.... nothing else.

Wow stitch nobodys talking about flushing.

Thats what I mean about pulling teeth. You confuse the issue with all this boohoo crap about you dont like me, the growfaqs and flushing, which has zero to do with the topic, and then you admit the def guide is incorrect and say you'll fix it...

I did not get it confused; I used that growfaq for 2 reasons. one you said this: Yellowing in early stages of flowering is normal... but in the growfaq I linked you too it states to keep the fan leaves Green up untill the 5th or 6th week...... now this guy's plant in this thread is in 3 weeks of flowering and already showing nitrogen deficiency.

Another thing you said: Who ever told you that you flush for 2 weeks is wrong; but in that growfaq link I pasted it says flush the last 2 weeks. I was not getting confused with flushing and this.... this growfaq showed 2 things I was trying to prove; does not matter if it is in flushing part of the faqs or not; because it states 2 different things nutrient solution and flushing. The 2 things I was trying to prove.

As for the picture in the guide I just used it to show what it looks like; The only mistake I made was assuming people knew that yellowing that late in flowering was normal,because of the flushing.

 

[khaleel]

Stitch, 10k: the reason you posted here was to help some sick plants and spread your knowledge, and i am much obliged. you both clearly have a wealth of growing knowledge, even if one of you happens to be wrong here (not even trying to say i know the answer to that one). and honestly compared with some of the posts i've read on this site, you guys even kept your argument civil (i once read a guy talking shit about someone's dad that had just died because they didn't agree on nutes or something! - that's messed up). but i think from here on out the PM suggestion is a good one for hashing out the nute def paper issue. i know frankenblunt sort of reflamed everything... but i'm sure he didn't mean it haha. and on that note:

EVERYONE: remember the vast majority of grievances in this world come from the escalation of what were initially just misunderstandings.

i don't know. i'm just trying to make sure my plants make it to the end. but for real, my friends, when/if someone flames you, you don't have to take the bait! take the high road! you may not get the last word, but you get to know with certainty that you, yourself, are not a childish douche.

 

[khaleel]

alright, the drainage issue is taken care of. no more standing water, no more soggy bags. and they got a little over a gram of grow fert. per gallon water, so the nitrogen should be fine. next feed i'll start back up strong on the bloom nutes and we'll see how they take off.

here's a pic of the bud on the plant with the worst of the yellowing:



i'll update in a week or so. keep it growin!

 

[khaleel]

update

update

just a quick update. overwatering was definitely it (nice call StinkyAttic!). i was watering every day, but with these bags its more like every three days.

over the last week, they have been given a flush (1/2 gram grow fert for one gallon water), and one feeding of an advance vitamin suppliment with a gram of grow fert and a gram of bloom fert. ppm was around 1000.






the new leaves up top look much greener already (not sure if you can tell from the pics...)

and here's the cola from the Chrystal plant that had the worst of the yellowing:



and a couple shots of the Super Ice buds:







hopefully all is under control. from here on they will get one or two more doses of grow fert, then a higher ppm of bloom along with a teaspoon of advanced "big bud". last two weeks will be a flush, spiked with Karo Lite. (sugary cooking stuff... same concept as molasses, but a grower/friend of mine said that it is lighter in taste. he said 1/4 cup per gallon, i'll probably do more like half that just to be safe.)

not to be jumping the gun or counting chickens or anything, but since it looks like at the least things are in the right direction, i need to give mad thanks/props to MyNameStitch, 10K, StinkyAttic, MTWeedman, Agent420, OldRed, and everyone else who posted. you guys saved my crop!

hope all is well. keep it growin'

 

[khaleel]

hello to all who are still following this...

things are looking good. the girls were dried out, flushed, then given a dose of nitrogen, and now are getting a higher PPM of bloom nutes, with a half gram per gallon addition of grow fert. all but a few plants that got the worst of the yellowing have started putting out new green leaves and the buds are fattening up nicely.








but the aforementioned few haven't really done anything in a week except continue to lose fan leaves (and put out little popcorn buds at the lower levels:







the yellowing is under control, but if they are already a lost cause, should i just harvest the two or three stunted ones now? or do the little buds on the bottom continue to ripen even if something traumatic has stopped the cola from growing (at least seems like it to inexperienced me)? a good deal of the trich's are milky... its been almost six weeks in bloom. here's a pic of what the worst one looks like, day 39:








also, i remember someone saying something about red petioles (sp?) meaning a sign of nute def. but i noticed after i put my last bushy LST'd plant in the bloom room, which is healthy as all get out, the petioles started getting red within a day or two. and i haven't switched the nutes yet! does the 12/12 light cycle simply trigger this redness?

thanks guys.

and just for the hell of it, here's a pic of how good look when i don't overwater. lol
Chrystal, day 27blm, vegged for five weeks and lst'd:



hope all is well

 

[MynameStitch]

Well here is a tip for ya, next time before going into flowering clip off most of the lower branches that will not see much light; they will only produce popcorn sized buds like they are now; you want the plant to focus on the bigger buds. So before flowering next time clip the ones and use them for clones.

AS of now; if you clip them it won't make a difference, I would just leave them there what some people do is harvest most of the plant leaving some of the popcorn buds there to grow bigger.. I see it as a waste of time but some people don't. Just thought I would tell ya different options

Red petioles is not a sign of nutrient deficiency. Some strains just have a darker purple or other colors.
You never want to go by that.

You get a microscope around 20 or 30x, take a look at the leaves that have trichcomes on it and make sure you get one with a light so you can see better.
Take a look at the little heads on them; you will see either clear, cloudy and amber if any amber yet.
The longer you wait to harvest depends.... you need to check the trichs. you want to harvest when you have way more cloudy than clear. Some ambers will cause couch lock I think?

Or head high.......I can't remember but if you have a 50/50 mixture cloudy and amber ones you get a 50/50 mixture of both head high and couchlock.

clear ones are not going to do anything,because they are immature and not ready; you will have to have some clear but harvest when very little. not all trichs will be cloudy.

 

[i love herb]

cloudy = head high
amber = couch lock


i like to pull when mostly cloudy and maybe 10% amber


its all personal preference of course


if its a stoney indica based plant and you're going for the couch lock, certainly let it become more amber

 

[khaleel]

stitch, glad to see you are still around. i picked up a 60-100x liighted microscope... almost too close to get a good picture. haha but the individual trichs look cool as hell.

thanks for the tip on clipping the lower branches. guess i sort of forgot all about that.

iloveherb: thanks too. i'll probably do the Chrystal 50/50 cloudy/amber, then the Super Ice a lot more heavy...

 

[khaleel]

uh-oh, is this what happens when there's too much nitrogen in bloom?



lol everything else is cool, but when i saw these leaves stretching out it made me think i fed them grow nutes one too many times. luckily this is the only one doing it (and i'm only assuming its negative - maybe it happens all the time ).

only two weeks or so left. i started flushing this one today. i'm tired of shelling out $100 for a sack of weed so i picked the most amber girl and she's coming down next week, at around seven weeks... i don't mind a cerebral high.



and here's a pic without the flash (color is closer to real-life):



laters!

 

[khaleel]

jesus that's sorry looking plant. i forgot to mention she was one of two that really lost leaves from the overwatering

here's what the rest of 'em look like. coming down in a couple more weeks

 

[MynameStitch]

THey look real nice K, ya to much nitrogen causes them to stretch a bit.. also slows down flowering.
They still look hella nice man!

What strain are those?

 

[khaleel]

They still look hella nice man!

What strain are those?

thanks stitch! for the most part, its Super Ice on the right, Chrystal on the left... though i admit its hard for me to tell at this point. maybe after they finish, dry and cure there will be a more prominent difference. either way, if i even touch a nug right now it lets off a very pugent, beautiful smell. great stuff.

i picked one to flush and chop next week (running out of money for weed ), so i'll have an early smoke report before the end of the month. i'm sure it will be cerebral, but the other eight will have a few more weeks to mature and fatten up.

hope all is well!

 

[stinkyattic]

Wow, those look very nice! Good save.