NEW.BOG Preservation Project.

[FOE20]

Its sad when folks gata whip their colas out trying to see who's is bigger...
Southwind if you wana shut them up just ask to see their Bog plants..
Or any pics of what they had that was Bogs...Im not doubting them either but I def doubt the skills of every grower out there..I dont care how bad ass a grower is we all still have bad runs and maybe they fucked up their pheno..Maybe they over fed and it turned out like shit..Maybe their full of shit in general..But stick with the info, pics and real world study your doing now and it will flow easy..
(Lucid is a perfect example of how its done..quick n simple..pics say it all..yummeh!!)
as far as Bog not knowing what he was doin..Well for a half assed grower if ppl are saying he was a bit sloppy then why did he write a book?..
So is it his growing skills that are sloppy?...His breeding was sloppy?..I dont get it..Ive had strains from the orig Breeders pks of high end breeders and they turned out like shit..So to me a plant says it all..every bean matters..every pheno matters and the only way to really know it, is to grow it..just stick with it man..Bogs work is worth it either way you slice it up..or smoke it up..heh
FOE20

 

[dwtc]

LUCID

a picture says a thousand words, show em how it's done. lovely pics and i bet she smokes even better.


FLINTSTONERS
i have nothing but respect for you and your work, but i'm slowly but shurely losing it. every breeder out there has had bad reviews at some point in time, but i don't see you bashing them. thing is is BOG never said any different about what he was doing. he told all of us that he was crossing others work. so whats your complaint, problem with him? what happened between BOG, and GYPSY is just that,,,between them. i can't change your mind and you damn sure can't change mine so why spread the negativity? this thread is not about BOG as a person,, it is in FACT about preserving his work for those that had em and lost em or never got to try em and WANT to. i thought the job of a moderator was to ensure that TROLLS wheren't on these boards, not become one. you haven't said anything positive in this thread when in FACT with your knowledge you should be helping. isn't it all about the plant and the preservation of it or am i wrong? like i said before i have nothing but respect for you. i respect your opinion so please do the same with the other members opinions that want BOG'S gear. i do hope you are safe and well and look forward to more positive threads from you


stay safe,,,,,,,,,,,,dwtc

 

[mariothejerk]

Wow nice pics Lucis that there is some eye candy for sure. I love B.O.G. plants they have always been on my list.

 

[southwind]

hmm..

hmm..

Well I have to say thanks to all with the great support for this project .

The other day was when I posted about people coming by and crapping..etc..my mood was very down..my kidneys have all but shut down on me and it creates alot of pain and poisons in your system.

So I was shorter fused than normal.

I would normally just go on and ignore it..which for the sake of my serenity and others here..I will try my best to do.

I hope all are well.

SW

 

[southwind]

New Pics

New Pics

The New Additions:



Some Curing SBBX3 F2 Before final trim..but really they are so resin /crystal coated they dont really need it...I wish you could smell this sweet/sour/sour/limey/spice smell..wowo..








hope all are well

sw

 

[southwind]

Bog's Lifesaver

Bog's Lifesaver

Lifesaver going into flower room.

A 4th is already in and not pictured.

 

[Lucid]

The New Additions:

Hey southwind im happy to see things are progressing well and kudos on the sourbubble harvest mmmmm its soooo good. Im liking the new additions for sure..... only need to find a few more then all the bases are covered... if you need any help holla this way ..... keep up the great work, your a stand up guy doing a heck of a job....


Here are some veg shots of Lifestar BX1 there is not too much info about this strain floating around so i thought i would post these up.... (followed by flower shots to come)

 

[Guest]

Well I guess this would be the place to ask... I have some lifestar bx1 beans here and was wondering if they were back-crossed to Lifesaver parent or the Sensi Star.... I believe its the SS but I forget, any help would be appreciated thanks!

 

[BennyBlanco]

heres some sbbx3 in veg

 

[Guest]

nice Benny and everyone...I am planning on doing a Bog grow shortly.So far I will concentrate on bog bubble and sour bubble.When and if I get a nice sour pheno I will breed some blueberry into it???

 

[southwind]

BOGs LSD and SB

BOGs LSD and SB

LSD



We now have 3 identified males ..one is most exceptional in growth habit, structure and aroma.

And 3 identified females. All with good potential.

[ One specimen is as yet unidentified. and also slow growing and "runtish" this may be culled completely, BUT as this is preservation , I may use for seeds to preserve all the genetic information present. To be retained for future.]

It is decision time:

The exceptional male will go first into flower with the 3 good LSD females as soon they have reached a good vegetative stage.

Seeds will then be harvested and seperated per female.


The SBBX4 male is ready to clones of, and one clone will be flowered with the SBBX3 F2 females.


SBBX3 original seeds will be most likely be started next in hopes of finding an exceptional original SBBX3 and a male.

The Original SBBX3 female will then be bred with both the SBBX3 male and the SBBX4 male.

seeds will be collected and kept labelled as to origin parents.

So things are happening.

hope all are well.


SW

 

[theFLINTSTONERS]

FLINTSTONERS
i have nothing but respect for you and your work, but i'm slowly but shurely losing it. every breeder out there has had bad reviews at some point in time, but i don't see you bashing them. thing is is BOG never said any different about what he was doing. he told all of us that he was crossing others work. so whats your complaint, problem with him? what happened between BOG, and GYPSY is just that,,,between them. i can't change your mind and you damn sure can't change mine so why spread the negativity? this thread is not about BOG as a person,, it is in FACT about preserving his work for those that had em and lost em or never got to try em and WANT to. i thought the job of a moderator was to ensure that TROLLS wheren't on these boards, not become one. you haven't said anything positive in this thread when in FACT with your knowledge you should be helping. isn't it all about the plant and the preservation of it or am i wrong? like i said before i have nothing but respect for you. i respect your opinion so please do the same with the other members opinions that want BOG'S gear. i do hope you are safe and well and look forward to more positive threads from you


stay safe,,,,,,,,,,,,dwtc

hiya . . .

our previous post wasn't about politicis or personalities . . . it was actually to make a point about preservation . . . just as Jesse Jackson was making a point about conservation . . . (btw - conservative is truly a word that evolved from conservation) . . .

as you can see from the links in our signature . . . we are quite serious about the subject of preservation . . . we've taken the time to author some fairly serious essays on that topic for the cannabis community . . .

and it's our opinion that folks interested in preservation . . . need to actually spend their efforts preserving something worthwhile . . . because there's a tremendous need to actively collaborate to preserve genetic diversity in the species . . .

we don't say that BOG's work is unworthy of preservation because we don't like the man . . . after BOG and Gypsy had their "falling out" . . . BOG showed up at CannabisWorld . . . where we did have the opportunity to interact directly with him for a few months before ~RC~'s demise . . .

there's no personal animosity between the three_little_birds and BOG . . . none at all . . .

if folks want to do preservation work . . . they need to start by doing homework and finding out if there's anything unique about what they intend to spend precious time attempting to preserve . . .

the results of 1 x 1 crosses are simply not worthy of preservation attempts . . . cannabis is an outbreeding plant that requires significant breeding population numbers to avoid inbreeding depression . . . otherwise any attempt to "preserve" or "conserve" a line is doomed to fail . . . it's just the genetic reality . . .



in summation . . .

our little Jesse Jackson story was not meant to disparage BOG . . . nor was it meant to disparage anyone attempting to "preserve" BOG's work . . .

it was simply meant to point out the fact that inbreeding depression is a fact of life . . . and that any long term effort to "preserve" lines based on 1 x 1 crosses . . . probably don't have a great chance of real success for multiple generations . . . because the negative effect of inbreeding depression will inevetably rear it's ugly head . . .

that's not a comment about BOG or individuals who enjoy his work . . . it's just science . . .

 

[Lucid]

SBBX3 original seeds will be most likely be started next in hopes of finding an exceptional original SBBX3 and a male.

The Original SBBX3 female will then be bred with both the SBBX3 male and the SBBX4 male.

seeds will be collected and kept labelled as to origin parents.

So things are happening.

hope all are well.
SW

Good Luck with the project southwind.... you should beable to find a nice female and a nice male in thoes sbbx3 seeds, i cant wait to see the results of the offspring....

 

[southwind]

Science

Science

Greetings;

Hello and hopes for good health with all of you.

I wanted to do a small recap of the reason for 'preserving" BOG's work , as it was deleted when the earlier thread was deleted.

I have worked in and around the Horticulture and Botany field for some time.

As a person with a science background I can say that there are no real easy anwers in genetics.

There is simple Classical Plant Husbandry and then there is genetics.

They are related but....

Real genetics is complex..amazingly so..Traites that we as humans see as good may or may not help a species survive..often with animal and plant husbandry the opposite is true.

Many domesticated animals would no longer be able to survive in the wild.

Many plants would not also.

Corn for example will quickly revert to 'maize" or maize like grasses.

Most types of food corn never existed in a wild state and would not exist if civilization fell.

Plants and animals do suffer from inbreeding..sometimes quickly sometimes slowly.

In some cases it takes many generations of inbreeding before truly deleterious depression occurs.

In many many instances inbreeding depression occurs at the embryonic level and simply aborts.

In these cases there is no progeny to worry about, as the animal or plant died in the egg.

Cannabis Sativa and Cannabis Indica are Dioecious plants that require a male and female to produce progeny.

They are not "out breeding obligate" I want to make clear that this is probably not what the Flintstones meant. I think they meant it needs a high population to outbreed to, for genetic diversity in the pollinators, for the plant to not suffer inbreeding depression.

In other words they do not REQUIRE a different variety to produce offspring.


cannabis is also one of the few apparently truly wind pollinated plants.

There are not many animal or insect pollinators of cannabis.

Most other plants have some outside pollinator.


This makes it a plant that must rely heavily on its somewhat close neighbors in the wild.

Perhaps mans involvement has mitigated that process to a certain extent.

In trying to preserve BOGs work I am hoping that we will not be continually crossing and recrossing his plants together and therefore incur inbreeding depression or at least minimize it.

They should come from a single cross of parents form BOGs seeds.
And NOT crossing those progeny, unless someone wants to.

This should help.

Since only ONE crossing is involved we should
A.) reduce the inbreeding danger

and

B.) Have progeny that are at least ONLY a recombination of say "Sour Bubble"

and therefore give us a good chance of having progeny similar to the parents, not a definite outcome, just a very good chance, there is no way to be sure.

Traits which we see may or may not be single locus genes, they may be several loci on different chromosomes.

If there are many loci for say "aroma" then the likelihood of having that multiple loci trait occur again upon recombination is problematic, at best.

I can only hope and try to go on intuition and back it up with tried and true "CLASSIC " mendellian genetics.


By having access to some gene protein profile data this MAY help.

This electrophoretic data can be used only as a [ somewhat useful] guide not as a definite map .

This kind of data can identify an INDIVIDUAL as we have see from many uses of it in Legal cases,but cannot be a definite predictor of what a mating may or may not produce.

Mostly the genetic protein profile I and some friends are attempting to produce is for 2 other projects, one of which is related.

The related project is on a few "strains" or types which a relative has been cultivating since the early seventies. These hold true to classic C.Indica and C.Sativa types.

They are a potential bonanza of relatively unaltered genetic material.

So far we have seen at least 8 unique varieties.

By typing these with a profile we have some hope of gathering some useful data on maybe keeping these "pure" without a high level of inbreeding.

In choosing to preserve BOGs work as closely as we could, [I say we as there are a few friends working on this also,] there were a few reasons involved.

One is that there is still a good level on interest in his work, many did not have the chance to grow it and it was realtively easy to grow while still producing a quality med, many others lost their BOG plants and would like a chance to maybe grow them again.




There are true lines of Cannabis Indica and C. Sativa and C.Ruderalis which are not only perhaps more "worthy" of preservation but OF ABSOLUTE AND PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE FOR US PRESERVE.

I cannot state that strongly enough.

We as regular people grow this for many reasons, most of which are to smoke or imbibe in some fashion and so it is difficult to set aside precious garden space for any kind of conservation effort, not to mention as the Flintstones did that it requires a high population, in the tens , hundreds, thousands, to truly conserve the genetic diversity that an organism truly requires.

Few of us have that kind of space to dedicate and many do not have any sufficient motivation to do so as conservation of true types does necessarily mean these true type are of an even ingestible quality.

My project outdoors holds the only real chance for myself at this time of conserving anything resembling a true type as these types have all been cultivated outdoors in more or less natural conditions, and kept unhybridized by a somewhat die hard naturalist who has a strong belief in "heirloom" plants and things which have not been f--ked with by people.

My hope for the BOG project is to share amongst a unique group of people some pretty darn good plants that BOG made.

I am doing my best with the use of science, guesswork, and intuition to keep them as close as I can to the original product.

Take care.

sw

 

[Sloppy Seconds]

I hope i can be part of that unique group that gets to grow some of the seeds you folks are making.
I would truly enjoy the chance to try my hand at this.
however, my grow would be a strait forward grow, no mixing of pheno's.
i could report on how the grow went and give my opinion.
please let me know if i can help.

 

[theFLINTSTONERS]

Greetings;

Hello and hopes for good health with all of you.

I wanted to do a small recap of the reason for 'preserving" BOG's work , as it was deleted when the earlier thread was deleted.

I have worked in and around the Horticulture and Botany field for some time.

As a person with a science background I can say that there are no real easy anwers in genetics.

There is simple Classical Plant Husbandry and then there is genetics.

They are related but....

Real genetics is complex..amazingly so..Traites that we as humans see as good may or may not help a species survive..often with animal and plant husbandry the opposite is true.

Many domesticated animals would no longer be able to survive in the wild.

Many plants would not also.

Corn for example will quickly revert to 'maize" or maize like grasses.

Most types of food corn never existed in a wild state and would not exist if civilization fell.

Plants and animals do suffer from inbreeding..sometimes quickly sometimes slowly.

In some cases it takes many generations of inbreeding before truly deleterious depression occurs.

In many many instances inbreeding depression occurs at the embryonic level and simply aborts.

In these cases there is no progeny to worry about, as the animal or plant died in the egg.

Cannabis Sativa and Cannabis Indica are Dioecious plants that require a male and female to produce progeny.

They are not "out breeding obligate" I want to make clear that this is probably not what the Flintstones meant. I think they meant it needs a high population to outbreed to, for genetic diversity in the pollinators, for the plant to not suffer inbreeding depression.

In other words they do not REQUIRE a different variety to produce offspring.


cannabis is also one of the few apparently truly wind pollinated plants.

There are not many animal or insect pollinators of cannabis.

Most other plants have some outside pollinator.


This makes it a plant that must rely heavily on its somewhat close neighbors in the wild.

Perhaps mans involvement has mitigated that process to a certain extent.

In trying to preserve BOGs work I am hoping that we will not be continually crossing and recrossing his plants together and therefore incur inbreeding depression or at least minimize it.

They should come from a single cross of parents form BOGs seeds.
And NOT crossing those progeny, unless someone wants to.

This should help.

Since only ONE crossing is involved we should
A.) reduce the inbreeding danger

and

B.) Have progeny that are at least ONLY a recombination of say "Sour Bubble"

and therefore give us a good chance of having progeny similar to the parents, not a definite outcome, just a very good chance, there is no way to be sure.

Traits which we see may or may not be single locus genes, they may be several loci on different chromosomes.

If there are many loci for say "aroma" then the likelihood of having that multiple loci trait occur again upon recombination is problematic, at best.

I can only hope and try to go on intuition and back it up with tried and true "CLASSIC " mendellian genetics.


By having access to some gene protein profile data this MAY help.

This electrophoretic data can be used only as a [ somewhat useful] guide not as a definite map .

This kind of data can identify an INDIVIDUAL as we have see from many uses of it in Legal cases,but cannot be a definite predictor of what a mating may or may not produce.

Mostly the genetic protein profile I and some friends are attempting to produce is for 2 other projects, one of which is related.

The related project is on a few "strains" or types which a relative has been cultivating since the early seventies. These hold true to classic C.Indica and C.Sativa types.

They are a potential bonanza of relatively unaltered genetic material.

So far we have seen at least 8 unique varieties.

By typing these with a profile we have some hope of gathering some useful data on maybe keeping these "pure" without a high level of inbreeding.

In choosing to preserve BOGs work as closely as we could, [I say we as there are a few friends working on this also,] there were a few reasons involved.

One is that there is still a good level on interest in his work, many did not have the chance to grow it and it was realtively easy to grow while still producing a quality med, many others lost their BOG plants and would like a chance to maybe grow them again.




There are true lines of Cannabis Indica and C. Sativa and C.Ruderalis which are not only perhaps more "worthy" of preservation but OF ABSOLUTE AND PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE FOR US PRESERVE.

I cannot state that strongly enough.

We as regular people grow this for many reasons, most of which are to smoke or imbibe in some fashion and so it is difficult to set aside precious garden space for any kind of conservation effort, not to mention as the Flintstones did that it requires a high population, in the tens , hundreds, thousands, to truly conserve the genetic diversity that an organism truly requires.

Few of us have that kind of space to dedicate and many do not have any sufficient motivation to do so as conservation of true types does necessarily mean these true type are of an even ingestible quality.

My project outdoors holds the only real chance for myself at this time of conserving anything resembling a true type as these types have all been cultivated outdoors in more or less natural conditions, and kept unhybridized by a somewhat die hard naturalist who has a strong belief in "heirloom" plants and things which have not been f--ked with by people.

My hope for the BOG project is to share amongst a unique group of people some pretty darn good plants that BOG made.

I am doing my best with the use of science, guesswork, and intuition to keep them as close as I can to the original product.

Take care.

sw

well said . . .

best of luck on your endeavors . . .

 

[dwtc]

hiya . . .

our previous post wasn't about politicis or personalities . . . it was actually to make a point about preservation . . . just as Jesse Jackson was making a point about conservation . . . (btw - conservative is truly a word that evolved from conservation) . . .

as you can see from the links in our signature . . . we are quite serious about the subject of preservation . . . we've taken the time to author some fairly serious essays on that topic for the cannabis community . . .

and it's our opinion that folks interested in preservation . . . need to actually spend their efforts preserving something worthwhile . . . because there's a tremendous need to actively collaborate to preserve genetic diversity in the species . . .

we don't say that BOG's work is unworthy of preservation because we don't like the man . . . after BOG and Gypsy had their "falling out" . . . BOG showed up at CannabisWorld . . . where we did have the opportunity to interact directly with him for a few months before ~RC~'s demise . . .

there's no personal animosity between the three_little_birds and BOG . . . none at all . . .

if folks want to do preservation work . . . they need to start by doing homework and finding out if there's anything unique about what they intend to spend precious time attempting to preserve . . .

the results of 1 x 1 crosses are simply not worthy of preservation attempts . . . cannabis is an outbreeding plant that requires significant breeding population numbers to avoid inbreeding depression . . . otherwise any attempt to "preserve" or "conserve" a line is doomed to fail . . . it's just the genetic reality . . .



in summation . . .

our little Jesse Jackson story was not meant to disparage BOG . . . nor was it meant to disparage anyone attempting to "preserve" BOG's work . . .

it was simply meant to point out the fact that inbreeding depression is a fact of life . . . and that any long term effort to "preserve" lines based on 1 x 1 crosses . . . probably don't have a great chance of real success for multiple generations . . . because the negative effect of inbreeding depression will inevetably rear it's ugly head . . .

that's not a comment about BOG or individuals who enjoy his work . . . it's just science . . .

let me the first to say that i'm sorry i took your previous post the wrong way. "i am sorry". i see what your talking about now, just didn't see it in the post's. yes there are better strains out there that deff need to be preserved, this PROJECT could be the stepping stone towards that. like SOUTHWIND said alot of us undercover growers don't have the space needed to not worry about inbreeding depression, but as long as we take steps to minimize it, i think we may have a chance at preserving this beloved plant. thank you 3LB for clearing things up for me and the wealth of knowledge you bring to this place. hope you are well and best wishes


SOUTHWIND
looks like things are falling into place. can't wait to see how the original sbbx3's compare to the f2's you got. hope you get a few nice males to further this project. hope you are well and feeling good.


stay safe ,,,,,,,,,,,,dwtc

 

[southwind]

Update June 29

Update June 29

Hello and happy day to you.

Its time for the update ..and good news!

We have a very very nice MALE LIFESAVER NOW.

It is a very vigorous plant, with good very strong trunks and sidebranches, good node length, good height and overall structure.

It has very dark red and purple marking on stems and petioles and leaf veins.

It is reminiscent of my SWEET TOOTH 1.1 'EXOTIC' in that way.

It has good aroma, greasy, sweet, musk with sweet over tones in tips.

So this gives us 4 phenotypes of LIFESAVER femal and a very good stud father.

I will be using this LS MALE for other breeding also.

Here is the LS MALE next to SBBX3 F2 3RD PHENO.


CLOSEUPS OF MALE

 

[southwind]

SBBX3 3RD PHENO

SBBX3 3RD PHENO

UPDATE

 

[dwtc]

finally a LS male

now if you can only get a few more out of that 12 pack, the possibilaty's are endless.

hope you are doing well my friend and free of pain.

have you tried any of the sbbx3 that you harvested?


stay safe,,,,,,,,,,,,,dwtc