Neem Cake

[Douglas.Curtis]

If you're "test results" amount to you asserting that you've personally helped lots of people by treating their CHS, but none of those people are stepping forward to corroborate you're story; people are going to be skeptical. Especially when two members have spoken up in this thread talking about how they suffered CHS while smoking weed grown without Neem/azadirachtin.

As for people coming forward, open your eyes, look around and read the statements people are making. I'm not going to go catalogue or hunt folks down on multiple platforms to 'witness' for you, that's asinine. Some of the CHS sufferers actually have spoken out on here already, go find it. It's been 7 years and I personally don't care if you're new to the subject.

I've said 99.9% was aza.

You dismiss accredited studies and articles without offering any deep criticism of why the studies are poorly designed.

Show me one single study including aza/neem, cannabis and people showing it's safe. Just one. I'm still waiting. All prior studies with neem are flawed, the main one is because they don't include cannabis. The ones with cannabis and neem do not include known CHS sufferers, there was no testing for CHS. There are no neem, CHS studies showing it's safe.

The argument that smoking is a different mode of ingestion and could potentially make azadirachtin stronger is weak considering how unstable it is. It's just as likely that it'd be lost to pyrolysis. There are just too many variables that are unaccounted for and basing the argument of unconfirmed assumptions isn't convincing. Especially when you don't acknowledge or address contradictory info but dismiss it outright without explanation.

I have never taken this point of view, you're quoting someone else. The issue affects me when it's neem oil, neem meal or aza products. Smoked or ingested, heated or unheated, I have a problem with it. I've always maintained such. Aza building up in resin is definitely known, and it building up in the body over time is definitely known to myself and many sufferers. I've repeatedly explained the build up in resin and the body in detail. If you're interested, I recommend using a search engine and data mining my posts here.

You mentioned reputable studies are being done that'll confirm your results; where and by who?

Read the thread, because you'll see I've asked the same question, so far without an answer. I have no idea who they are, only references to some having been started. When the studies are done it will mirror the results of my own test. It's literally as black and white as water or no water in a bucket.

That's not how science works. We test hypothesis based on corrolations; the biggest correlation that's consistent in all the studies is that stopping smoking cannabis stops CHS.

?? So... you're suggesting testing the theory by testing... not smoking cannabis?

Which is why it's patently false to assert "neem equals poison". Any potential value is clouded over by the obvious lack of facts and reliance on assumptions to prove your point.

Assumption: a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.

YOU, who have done no research other than armchair reading and, do not suffer from CHS, would be assuming. I, having suffered from CHS for 10 years and personally done research to find and prove my hypothesis of its origin, am stating fact.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Remember how awesome asbestos was and how the greatest minds and 'accredited studies' said it was safe? Mmm-Hmm...

 

[ozzieAI]

Is there some data you collected, including test results eluded to earlier in the thread which are available to view?

data: like what neem/aza products you used, how much, how often, how you applied, withholding periods, how it was consumed...

my 'tests' show that after 12 years of neem use that no cases of CHS have been recorded...

 

[Microbeman]

DC. I've not decided one way or the other and all I've requested is to see your trial and test results that YOU have mentioned. This is what data is. You have yet to show anything unless I missed it in the clutter.

 

[ozzieAI]

I, having suffered from CHS for 10 years and personally done research to find and prove my hypothesis of its origin, am stating fact.

without one piece of evidence to support this 'fact'....

 

[Switcher56]

... my daddy is stronger than your daddy!

 

[Mengsk]

Neem oil smells awful and it's good to use less/least amount of pest controls necessary, no argument from me.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

DC. I've not decided one way or the other and all I've requested is to see your trial and test results that YOU have mentioned. This is what data is. You have yet to show anything unless I missed it in the clutter.

I'll post it again then, it happens to be a ridiculously simple thing to test.

I used two mother plants, different strains. I took 3 clones of each strain. One clone of each were not treated with an azadirachtin product. One clone of each was soil drenched with a 3ml/gallon solution at week 2 of flower. One clone of each was sprayed with a 5ml/gallon solution at week 2 of flower. All 6 plants were grown under the same light at the same time, under the same conditions.

Both strains were harvested at 72 days, so a total of 58 days after treatment at harvest time. Night and day difference between treated and non-treated plants. Soil drench and foliar applications both produced tainted cannabis which caused CHS symptoms. Un-treated cannabis caused zero issues, bringing nothing but relief.

Plain as day, simple as pie, zero question about it. MY chs symptoms are caused by azadirachtin. I have experienced the same reaction with neem treated, neem meal treated and various aza extract products.

 

[Coughie]

Have you done this test blindly?

Have someone else treat two plants, a third for control, and then you consume them to see if you have any reaction? Done in a different space, that you don't have access to.

It's not a double blind study, but blind (single or double) studies exist for a reason..
Just food for thought..

Honestly curious

 

[paradoxlost]

As for people coming forward, open your eyes, look around and read the statements people are making. I'm not going to go catalogue or hunt folks down on multiple platforms to 'witness' for you, that's asinine. Some of the CHS sufferers actually have spoken out on here already, go find it. It's been 7 years and I personally don't care if you're new to the subject.

I've said 99.9% was aza.


Show me one single study including aza/neem, cannabis and people showing it's safe. Just one. I'm still waiting. All prior studies with neem are flawed, the main one is because they don't include cannabis. The ones with cannabis and neem do not include known CHS sufferers, there was no testing for CHS. There are no neem, CHS studies showing it's safe.


I have never taken this point of view, you're quoting someone else. The issue affects me when it's neem oil, neem meal or aza products. Smoked or ingested, heated or unheated, I have a problem with it. I've always maintained such. Aza building up in resin is definitely known, and it building up in the body over time is definitely known to myself and many sufferers. I've repeatedly explained the build up in resin and the body in detail. If you're interested, I recommend using a search engine and data mining my posts here.

Read the thread, because you'll see I've asked the same question, so far without an answer. I have no idea who they are, only references to some having been started. When the studies are done it will mirror the results of my own test. It's literally as black and white as water or no water in a bucket.


?? So... you're suggesting testing the theory by testing... not smoking cannabis?



Assumption: a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.

YOU, who have done no research other than armchair reading and, do not suffer from CHS, would be assuming. I, having suffered from CHS for 10 years and personally done research to find and prove my hypothesis of its origin, am stating fact.

DC You are accepting things without proof. You CocaCola Challenge of a study was stupid. If it is the neem + cannabis, what part of the cannabis is it? You didn't get a terp/THC/CBD test on the cannabis. Did you even bother to catalogue the genetics? You also didn't catalogue your genetics. It seems that people suffer from CHS who both use and don't use neem/aza products on their plants. Does this mean that it is something genetic within a human to cause the reaction, much like an allergic reaction? Or is it that certain cannabis genetics when expose to neem express a genetic that causes CHS symptoms? Also this was done on you with no other population, so life style was not taken into account. Also this was only done with two mothers, not a variety of weed like we know exists.



This is me taking you seriously, when I shouldn't. I shouldn't take you seriously because this is the first time in this thread you have mentioned your methodology. And you still don't have any corroborating evidence, or mechanistic hyposthesis, or anything else. All you have are people with CHS who don't use neem and people without CHS who do use neem.



You sir, are a fool and a shill. I've never seen someone so mistaken with the scientific method or being able to see what is going on in front of them. You give the cannabis industry the name it deserves: psuedoscientific and fantastical.


Also just because you stated you did the study, doesn't mean you did and it doesn't seem to be backed up with peer reviewed research. Every other study in this thread was backed up with peer reviewed research.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Have you done this test blindly?

Have someone else treat two plants, a third for control, and then you consume them to see if you have any reaction? Done in a different space, that you don't have access to.

It's not a double blind study, but blind (single or double) studies exist for a reason..
Just food for thought..

Honestly curious

It was not a double-blind. However, the results were definitely not placebo driven in any way. I did have a double-blind test set up, but it turns out (in my opinion) the individuals are clinically psychotic and it was a no-go.

FWIW, I've repeatedly guessed correctly when handed tainted cannabis. Is that double-blind enough for you? Over the last 7 years I've come across a LOT of cannabis by individual growers. Every time I've noticed CHS symptoms and asked, I've been correct the grower was using some type of neem product.

It's so glaringly obvious from a CHS sufferers point of view, it's difficult to take questions like this with diplomacy. It's such a night/day difference between clean and tainted cannabis for us. Like asking me what tests I did to determine my dog is a dog. heh Seriously. No offense.

 

[Cvh]

I did have a double-blind test set up, but it turns out (in my opinion) the individuals are clinically psychotic and it was a no-go.

I remember when you told that to me. That was a year or 2 ago. That was indeed a no-go....

But could you be so kind to publish here on the board the other studies you did? If I remember correctly you where following up several other people too.

 

[paradoxlost]

It was not a double-blind. However, the results were definitely not placebo driven in any way. I did have a double-blind test set up, but it turns out (in my opinion) the individuals are clinically psychotic and it was a no-go.

FWIW, I've repeatedly guessed correctly when handed tainted cannabis. Is that double-blind enough for you? Over the last 7 years I've come across a LOT of cannabis by individual growers. Every time I've noticed CHS symptoms and asked, I've been correct the grower was using some type of neem product.

It's so glaringly obvious from a CHS sufferers point of view, it's difficult to take questions like this with diplomacy. It's such a night/day difference between clean and tainted cannabis for us. Like asking me what tests I did to determine my dog is a dog. heh Seriously. No offense.

I'm sure it's very easy to guess when neem has been used on cannabis. But I find it hilarious that the people you were working with to test are by your words psychotic. So you'll use their anecdotal evidence to draw conclusions based on CHS symptoms but they are too psychotic to do actual experiments with.





The more and more you talk, the more and more I'm like, well I highly doubt CHS is a real thing. The only place I seem to run into it are from you and on the comment section of the New York Times.


The only thing glaringly obvious is that you are a paid shill against neem for some reason.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Wow, it's difficult to believe it's been 2 years already but it has. Talk about psychotic people! lol What a waste of time. Tip: The 'bad' vibe you get from psychotic people is different than most other people you meet. I don't get the "I'm lying" feeling when they talk, I'm pretty sure because they fully believe what they're saying. With these individuals it was a greasy, make you shudder, type of under tone. Just, wow. heh

Could you remind me of the thread where I mentioned the studies? I only have a vague memory of it. Now that you mention it, there are a number of growers from the last year or two who should have a few clean harvests by now. Good thinking.

The only other 'test' I've done personally was to originally use it on a grow, and then go to the ER a few times over CHS symptoms from using the harvest. This was what caused me to look for the cause, then test my hypothesis. Since aza was the only thing I had changed, the decision to test it was obvious.

 

[Cvh]

Now that you mention it, there are a number of growers from the last year or two who should have a few clean harvests by now. Good thinking.

Try to get into contact with them. Document properly what the effects are on their CHS. Unbiased, be it either for the good or bad for your hypothesis. It's important if you want your research to be taken seriously.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Also a good point. Should the other studies I heard wind of not come through, an estimated 2+ million will have to suffer another few years. It's already been 7, going on 8 years now.

 

[Switcher56]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] an estimated 2+ million will have to suffer another few years. It's already been 7, going on 8 years now.[/FONT]

Hey Donald! Sex and travel!!!

 

[paradoxlost]

Wow, it's difficult to believe it's been 2 years already but it has. Talk about psychotic people! lol What a waste of time. Tip: The 'bad' vibe you get from psychotic people is different than most other people you meet. I don't get the "I'm lying" feeling when they talk, I'm pretty sure because they fully believe what they're saying. With these individuals it was a greasy, make you shudder, type of under tone. Just, wow. heh

Could you remind me of the thread where I mentioned the studies? I only have a vague memory of it. Now that you mention it, there are a number of growers from the last year or two who should have a few clean harvests by now. Good thinking.

The only other 'test' I've done personally was to originally use it on a grow, and then go to the ER a few times over CHS symptoms from using the harvest. This was what caused me to look for the cause, then test my hypothesis. Since aza was the only thing I had changed, the decision to test it was obvious.

You were the one who called them psychotic and attributed that reasoning to why you couldn't work with them. If they are so trust worthy, why not work with them


You're starting to ramble at this point and becoming disjointed and incohesive.

 

[Microbeman]

I'll post it again then, it happens to be a ridiculously simple thing to test.

I used two mother plants, different strains. I took 3 clones of each strain. One clone of each were not treated with an azadirachtin product. One clone of each was soil drenched with a 3ml/gallon solution at week 2 of flower. One clone of each was sprayed with a 5ml/gallon solution at week 2 of flower. All 6 plants were grown under the same light at the same time, under the same conditions.

Both strains were harvested at 72 days, so a total of 58 days after treatment at harvest time. Night and day difference between treated and non-treated plants. Soil drench and foliar applications both produced tainted cannabis which caused CHS symptoms. Un-treated cannabis caused zero issues, bringing nothing but relief.

Plain as day, simple as pie, zero question about it. MY chs symptoms are caused by azadirachtin. I have experienced the same reaction with neem treated, neem meal treated and various aza extract products.

So no lab testing indicating azadirachtin levels?

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

So no lab testing indicating azadirachtin levels?

I don't have access to this, would you like to repeat my experiment and pay for everyone to see what my results were? I would love it, thanks.