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My Perpetual Ebb & Flow Cabinets
- Thread starter imnotcrazy
- Start date
In the past I was using 24hr veg and preflowers so I knew the plant had reached maturity and *should* be more potent. Although with longer veg of the same clone ie:moms slight increases in potentcy have been seen. But with so much going on (shit 6 strains popping, 3 more on the way and all the moms) I'll probably take cuttings of all and place in cups filled with water under flowering lamp, next to the youngest flowering clones. Just need an Idea to keep the water from evaporating while I'm @ work, some kind of plastic cover possibly saran wrap
Mibri
Member
My holes a drilled on the edge so half of the hole is in the side. Then the mesh to keep the stones from the holes. I figure you're very right about that paint in my water=roots=plants. The painted buckets are gone, and im gonna use the white ones. Just have to put them tight together in the tray i guess.
U shouldn't have done such an effort. Could have just told me. I believe u off course.(i mean the bucket size) Just wanted to make sure i understood u correctly (sometimes i miss some good points when a lot of shorts gets in the sentences, hehe).
Nice pics though, and can't understand such a big plant can grow that well in such a tiny place - amazing.
U shouldn't have done such an effort. Could have just told me. I believe u off course.(i mean the bucket size) Just wanted to make sure i understood u correctly (sometimes i miss some good points when a lot of shorts gets in the sentences, hehe).
Nice pics though, and can't understand such a big plant can grow that well in such a tiny place - amazing.
Gravity Float
Gravity Float
With multiple strains I like to get a decent size food container and make a raft for each cutting....
peace
Gravity Float
Easy...just get a raindrip fitting (straight 1/4") at a home and garden center and make a gravity float. Just puncture a 2 liter bottle (or some similar small container; that easily punctured with a raindrip puncher), then snap in that raindrip fitting...connect 1/4" line....ensuring the "plastic mini reservoir" is elevated, of course. Make the same fitting in the container for the cuts. When the water level lowers in the container...gravity will replenish it ASAPimnotcrazy said:
With multiple strains I like to get a decent size food container and make a raft for each cutting....
peace
Mibri: That's good with the buckets, as long as some of the hole is exposed it'll work. The holes in mine are @ 1/8" in diameter and even with roots busting out, they still fill and drain fine. You could even make smaller holes and save the trouble of having to use the mesh.
-VT-: Yeah, but I have to use individual cups for each because there is room on the sides I could get a bigger containre in there. But it won't get enough light to the clones for them to show sex before they expire. Rooting is slow process so you want to slow metabolism so there is time for roots. For sexing I was thinking a labeled cup each under the freshest clones on the tray. The light won't burn them @ 3.5 ft away but they'll sex fairly quickly with that light intensity having before been under 4 3' 30W fluoros 24/0. My problem is, with a float, the water evaps too quickly because I have a window A/C with a DRY (dehumidifyer) setting and I use it to keep humidity @ 50% all the time. This makes the plants transpire and grow more quickly and helps with higher temps (more transpiration is like them "sweating" that's the root cause of the problem with high temps, 80F is no biggie with low RH)
PS more NHL 2K7, BBL
-VT-: Yeah, but I have to use individual cups for each because there is room on the sides I could get a bigger containre in there. But it won't get enough light to the clones for them to show sex before they expire. Rooting is slow process so you want to slow metabolism so there is time for roots. For sexing I was thinking a labeled cup each under the freshest clones on the tray. The light won't burn them @ 3.5 ft away but they'll sex fairly quickly with that light intensity having before been under 4 3' 30W fluoros 24/0. My problem is, with a float, the water evaps too quickly because I have a window A/C with a DRY (dehumidifyer) setting and I use it to keep humidity @ 50% all the time. This makes the plants transpire and grow more quickly and helps with higher temps (more transpiration is like them "sweating" that's the root cause of the problem with high temps, 80F is no biggie with low RH)
PS more NHL 2K7, BBL
I am no longer using the fridge for stasis....gonna just use plain water in veg...they'll root in a month...if not...when I need cuts they go in my cloner....I just had a MTF root in less than a week after sitting in water in my veg space for a couple weeks....they begin rooting on their own in a cup of plain water...plus I can see the roots....cloning in rockwool, I can't see exactly when they root (so I always peel away r/w to check...the limit shit is important to me)
In fact
, I have just now (as I type this) decided to stop cloning in rockwool 
...with coco I have just experimented and learned that as soon as I get root bumps ....I know I can stick it in....this is how I will clone from now on....
In fact
, I have just now (as I type this) decided to stop cloning in rockwool ...with coco I have just experimented and learned that as soon as I get root bumps ....I know I can stick it in....this is how I will clone from now on....
-VT-: I usually start seeds in starter cubes myself, but had some 4" cubes I'm never going to use so I started to cut them up, probably would have been better to have used new cubes and save these for the clones. As for clones in RW and the problem you stated above, simple solution. I take the cube and slide off the wrapper. Then qurater the cube into 1/2"w x 1/2"d x 1"h. The RW contacts the stem much tighter that way. I also tend to roll the RW between my fingers after inserting clone to be sure of contact. With this method, once you have a few roots that are 1/8"-1/4" long, you woll know for sure. I'll get pics to show how much RW I use when I put the rooted Black Domina into the vegging clone tray. Have to do it soon too, they were getting really yellow.
Hiya imnotcrazy 
Just came across your garden while strolling around - very fine setup you have, I really like the empirical approach. Great usage of your space too
I've not done any veg/flower hydro yet, gonna sit down and learnsum from ya.... 
Just came across your garden while strolling around - very fine setup you have, I really like the empirical approach. Great usage of your space too
I've not done any veg/flower hydro yet, gonna sit down and learnsum from ya....
Mr. GreenJeans: Nice to have you along for the ride. Feel free to ask any questions man, I'll be happy to try and help answer anything the best I can.
Small update, 1 of 5 Blockhead went into starter cube today, I bought these knowing they were probably old stock but wanted to give them a run again and thought I might strike gold. The germ rate is already higher than the whole pack of JH and the BH cost less than half as much so lets hope at least this ONE is a stinky fem just in case. Of the last 2 SWT#3 beans the normal one went into RW (wasn't expecting anything from the wrinkled one but the papertowel was wet so I figured what the hell) and the Jack Herer is slated for the garbage within a week nothing going on there.
One clone, from a group of cuts, from one of the Black Domina plants undergoing selection has rooted. It was taken from the cloner and put upstairs into vegging table. Timing wise I'm guessing that the other BD cuttings should be rooted by the weekend and in good health, ready for the flower tray somewhere between now and 2 weeks from now. I have not decided how tall to veg them and this is the problem running a system like mine. I NEED to keep the Nitrogen in a happy medium kind of state, where I'm not starving/stunting growth of stretching clones when they first go in but at the same time not hitting less than two week from harvest plants with too much. There is room for 28 pots (4 rows of 7 wide) and I harvest and put in @ 3 new clones every week, so if I were running all 8wk strains there *will* be plants at clone, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8week stages at the same time. But I honestly believe It allows me to run higher TDS numbers with my nutes. Being that fresh clones want N and 6wk flowering girls want P and K, I feel having the different stages of growth naturally balance the nutes for me, and I could be pretty damn close with that guess. Last rez change was done when the plants that were harvested on pg 1 of this thread went in and were on veg nutes for 7 days before flip to 12/12 and flowering nutes on 9/11/06 (this rez is going strong with minimal problems besides a stunt in new growth from liquid koolbloom used for plants from 9/11 and stunted the new girls on 10/3-10/6, using 160PPM tapwater @ .68 conversion for 10+ weeks). Say for example (using uS as our scale) you had a plant and knew a flowering nute schedule. Say you have found the nutes at 5-6wks flower should be 1500uS: N-250, P-500, K-500 Micronutes-~250. I'm running that same plant @ 2000uS(same ratio bottlewise just stronger). Possibly because that 2000uS breaks down to: N-350uS, P-700uS, K-700uS and Total Micro nutes-300uS. The plant in question may want to have TDS in the range of 1700uS but that 1700 looks like this: N-~0uS, P-700uS, K-700uS and Micro-300uS. Running the 2000uS would surely nute OD the plants but I don't see these symptoms running multiple strains and at the same time having clones in different stages of growth. Possibly because the fresh clones only day one - 2 weeks are sucking up the majority of the leftover N from the 2000uS nute mix and the 2000us would then have me in a more optimal range by bumping up the P-K and Micro nutes the 1500uS mix was lacking. I'm only going on experience from the last few runs before the roomie problem and now that the show is on again. Anything else is based on discussions I had with Oscar Meyer @ OG
Small update, 1 of 5 Blockhead went into starter cube today, I bought these knowing they were probably old stock but wanted to give them a run again and thought I might strike gold. The germ rate is already higher than the whole pack of JH and the BH cost less than half as much so lets hope at least this ONE is a stinky fem just in case. Of the last 2 SWT#3 beans the normal one went into RW (wasn't expecting anything from the wrinkled one but the papertowel was wet so I figured what the hell) and the Jack Herer is slated for the garbage within a week nothing going on there.
One clone, from a group of cuts, from one of the Black Domina plants undergoing selection has rooted. It was taken from the cloner and put upstairs into vegging table. Timing wise I'm guessing that the other BD cuttings should be rooted by the weekend and in good health, ready for the flower tray somewhere between now and 2 weeks from now. I have not decided how tall to veg them and this is the problem running a system like mine. I NEED to keep the Nitrogen in a happy medium kind of state, where I'm not starving/stunting growth of stretching clones when they first go in but at the same time not hitting less than two week from harvest plants with too much. There is room for 28 pots (4 rows of 7 wide) and I harvest and put in @ 3 new clones every week, so if I were running all 8wk strains there *will* be plants at clone, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8week stages at the same time. But I honestly believe It allows me to run higher TDS numbers with my nutes. Being that fresh clones want N and 6wk flowering girls want P and K, I feel having the different stages of growth naturally balance the nutes for me, and I could be pretty damn close with that guess. Last rez change was done when the plants that were harvested on pg 1 of this thread went in and were on veg nutes for 7 days before flip to 12/12 and flowering nutes on 9/11/06 (this rez is going strong with minimal problems besides a stunt in new growth from liquid koolbloom used for plants from 9/11 and stunted the new girls on 10/3-10/6, using 160PPM tapwater @ .68 conversion for 10+ weeks). Say for example (using uS as our scale) you had a plant and knew a flowering nute schedule. Say you have found the nutes at 5-6wks flower should be 1500uS: N-250, P-500, K-500 Micronutes-~250. I'm running that same plant @ 2000uS(same ratio bottlewise just stronger). Possibly because that 2000uS breaks down to: N-350uS, P-700uS, K-700uS and Total Micro nutes-300uS. The plant in question may want to have TDS in the range of 1700uS but that 1700 looks like this: N-~0uS, P-700uS, K-700uS and Micro-300uS. Running the 2000uS would surely nute OD the plants but I don't see these symptoms running multiple strains and at the same time having clones in different stages of growth. Possibly because the fresh clones only day one - 2 weeks are sucking up the majority of the leftover N from the 2000uS nute mix and the 2000us would then have me in a more optimal range by bumping up the P-K and Micro nutes the 1500uS mix was lacking. I'm only going on experience from the last few runs before the roomie problem and now that the show is on again. Anything else is based on discussions I had with Oscar Meyer @ OG
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Mibri
Member
Hi Crazy
Sorry to hear about The Jack Herers. I was looking forward to comparing mine to yours. Just sprouted (i think 11 of the 16 are up now). At least you've got heaps of other nice strains there. That's some pretty advance nute talk here in the bottom. I don't even understand that language)
Yes, my buckets seem to work nicely, and the plants seem happy again (they looked a little unhappy, just the 12 hours after transplanting) I was building on the flowerroom this morning finding out, that the pump i bought might be a little too powerfull for my little system (the water made a 4' fountaine, lol) The drain won't even be able to follow the preasure. So - i'll be buying myself a small cheap pump instead of this "able to drain a swimmingpool in a minute" pump. Well - last coffee and i'm out finishing flowerroom - gonna be very awsome after today. Have a nice weekend, bro!
Sorry to hear about The Jack Herers. I was looking forward to comparing mine to yours. Just sprouted (i think 11 of the 16 are up now). At least you've got heaps of other nice strains there. That's some pretty advance nute talk here in the bottom. I don't even understand that language
)Yes, my buckets seem to work nicely, and the plants seem happy again (they looked a little unhappy, just the 12 hours after transplanting) I was building on the flowerroom this morning finding out, that the pump i bought might be a little too powerfull for my little system (the water made a 4' fountaine, lol) The drain won't even be able to follow the preasure. So - i'll be buying myself a small cheap pump instead of this "able to drain a swimmingpool in a minute" pump. Well - last coffee and i'm out finishing flowerroom - gonna be very awsome after today. Have a nice weekend, bro!
Yeah 15hr day at work and too much White Rhino
Yeah 15hr day at work and too much White Rhino
Sorry Mibri bout the post last night Looooooooooonnnnnnngggggg day yesterday I can see where that post could be confusing so I'll try the nute explanation again in a chart format:
Strength/ N / P / K /Tot Micro
1500ppm/250/500/500/250
2000ppm/300/700/700/300
1700ppm/ 0 /700/700/300
Say you are now using the 1500 mix, the 2000 would normally be OD and the 1700 is optimal for the strain/plant in question. 2000 would normally have the plants exibiting some form of nute OD symptoms, RIGHT NOW THIS IS HOW MY TRAY IS RUNNING. I feel that with the fresh clones using all the extra N it actually allows the older plants to see a better nute profile (more P-K)because after a day or two the N in the rez has dropped substancially. If I put in new clones and don't add GH micro or Cal Mag Plus they stunt due to lack of N so anything from the rez is almost gone because of the week before's clones. This is all just from observation and trial and error, but I think anyone else using tapwater couldn't go 3 months w/o rez change without seeing some problems so my theory should be close
Yeah 15hr day at work and too much White Rhino
Sorry Mibri bout the post last night Looooooooooonnnnnnngggggg day yesterday I can see where that post could be confusing so I'll try the nute explanation again in a chart format:
Strength/ N / P / K /Tot Micro
1500ppm/250/500/500/250
2000ppm/300/700/700/300
1700ppm/ 0 /700/700/300
Say you are now using the 1500 mix, the 2000 would normally be OD and the 1700 is optimal for the strain/plant in question. 2000 would normally have the plants exibiting some form of nute OD symptoms, RIGHT NOW THIS IS HOW MY TRAY IS RUNNING. I feel that with the fresh clones using all the extra N it actually allows the older plants to see a better nute profile (more P-K)because after a day or two the N in the rez has dropped substancially. If I put in new clones and don't add GH micro or Cal Mag Plus they stunt due to lack of N so anything from the rez is almost gone because of the week before's clones. This is all just from observation and trial and error, but I think anyone else using tapwater couldn't go 3 months w/o rez change without seeing some problems so my theory should be close
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Mibri
Member
Hehe okay, that made it much more easy for me to understand. Much more foreigneradjustet, hehe. I just don't have one of those measure things (ppm-meter, ec-meter???) or what it's called. Aren't they pretty expensive? Which one have u got?
Check some nice pics at the widowgrow. I'm about to upload some nice footage (i think anyway). Im looking forward to learning some more of those nutes. I'm just starting to get a bit of an idea how it works.
Check some nice pics at the widowgrow. I'm about to upload some nice footage (i think anyway). Im looking forward to learning some more of those nutes. I'm just starting to get a bit of an idea how it works.
I have a Milwaukee SM-802 cost on it is @ $200, well worth the investment. My theory has got less to do with nutes and more to do with knowing what nutes the plants are consuming more of at individual stages of growth. I'm checking your grow now...
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You can get a pen style meter for ALOT less if you wanted check E-Bay
Be sure to get Calibrating Solution so you can KNOW it's accurate the first time you use it.
Well, EC meters only give you a reading of everything, but you don't know exactly how much of each there will be. Sproutco knows better than me how to figure how much of each individual nute you are adding, N-P-K-MG-CA-etc, by what the nute bottle says.
But those calculations will only tell you what it is with a fresh rez as it drops it may be different nutes being taken up. Knowing which way each nutrient swings PH and what the deficiencies are you can rectify the problem quickly. Also 5mg of a N providing nutrient might not read the same as 5mg of another nutrient on the meter as each element has different conductive. Keeping the rez straight is a mix of: knowing what the nutrients you are adding are putting in the rez, ie: Liquid Kool BLoom 0-10-10, What 1/4, 1/2 and full strength nutes measure in a gallon of water with EC meter, and what the nutes have done in a set amount of time when you top off with straight water and check if PH and EC have changed and which way it has swung. And whether healthy or not correct nute schedule/ fix problem
But those calculations will only tell you what it is with a fresh rez as it drops it may be different nutes being taken up. Knowing which way each nutrient swings PH and what the deficiencies are you can rectify the problem quickly. Also 5mg of a N providing nutrient might not read the same as 5mg of another nutrient on the meter as each element has different conductive. Keeping the rez straight is a mix of: knowing what the nutrients you are adding are putting in the rez, ie: Liquid Kool BLoom 0-10-10, What 1/4, 1/2 and full strength nutes measure in a gallon of water with EC meter, and what the nutes have done in a set amount of time when you top off with straight water and check if PH and EC have changed and which way it has swung. And whether healthy or not correct nute schedule/ fix problem
