No argument from me on that general point......
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Mulch. Just do it.
- Thread starter Dignan
- Start date
M
MrSterling
Sorry if I'm misreading. Are we arguing about something and I haven't realized? Can't tell from your typing tone but I feel as if we're having different parts of a conversation. All the best!
Sorry about that - I wasn't arguing with you on any point. I simply made an observation that in the world of horticulture (vs. agriculture) growing paradigms, it's difficult for me to see the benefit of adding clover seeds to 10,000 pots sitting in a field for 2 - 5 years until they're of a size (for that cultivar) to ship to the end user.
That's all......
That's all......
Indoors under HID lighting it works if you have large pots and LARGE plants...there was so little light reaching the clover underneath the canopy...it just really died off. The ones that ended up trying to stretch to the light were just cut off and stuck in the pot.
By the time mid-flower was on...there was a little clover left...by the end of flower there was really only traces recognizable.
A serious living soil is like keeping some form a zoo animal alive in your spare room. The fucker EATS!!!! What wasn't dead was then covered with topdressing material containing a mild mix of EWC/Compost,kelp meal,spray dried fish hydroylsate.
M
MrSterling
Cool, thanks for the first-hand experience gascan! I wouldn't have expected that. The bioherd always make for an interesting topic.
However I'm not going to try it again as it is a waste of time in a serious cannabis garden where production of meds by a single person in a world with teeth takes precedent over other such things. Cool idea,but not realistic in this society....maybe I'll try again later.
The N which is leached into the soil from legumes during the living phase is not sufficient for nitrogen hogs but there is some. I believe it depends who you are listening to. The following study says not so much with corn.
http://www.agronext.iastate.edu/soilfertility/info/Kura living mulch final report.pdf
but I read a study last week or so which claimed success with corn.
We are trying this right now;
We seeded a bed of crimson clover and mowed down an area sufficient to plant corn, peas and squash. The clover had grown to almost a foot so the dead bodies pretty much smother the mowed down plants. We then watered with plenty of ACT, which will be repeated several times. We will let some of the clover produce seed but let the rest die off which we will cover with the bodies from the corn for next year's mulch...organic matter....at least that is the plan.
We grew red clover with grasses (hay) for years with a yield of 3 tons per acre (which is pretty good for single cut non-irrigated) without ever...ever fertilizing. I can only think the N came from the red clover.
Here is a pic before mowing. I'll try to get another pic after mowing and planting.
http://www.agronext.iastate.edu/soilfertility/info/Kura living mulch final report.pdf
but I read a study last week or so which claimed success with corn.
We are trying this right now;
We seeded a bed of crimson clover and mowed down an area sufficient to plant corn, peas and squash. The clover had grown to almost a foot so the dead bodies pretty much smother the mowed down plants. We then watered with plenty of ACT, which will be repeated several times. We will let some of the clover produce seed but let the rest die off which we will cover with the bodies from the corn for next year's mulch...organic matter....at least that is the plan.
We grew red clover with grasses (hay) for years with a yield of 3 tons per acre (which is pretty good for single cut non-irrigated) without ever...ever fertilizing. I can only think the N came from the red clover.
Here is a pic before mowing. I'll try to get another pic after mowing and planting.
This guy ^^^ (MM) is the only authority I would take advice from as far as an indoor cannabis no-till/cover crop is concerned.
MissGreenDreamz
Member
A time lapse video of the living soil eating tossed in leaves etc. would blow everyone away! We also trimmed up the grasses before they were naturally drowned out, so some was already decomposed before flower cycle. Here's a link to where I started this process in 5 gallon buckets if anyone's interested who hasn't seen it. I would do it again. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=217957&page=6
M
MrSterling
I've been debating introducing some of my fungal compost into a big pile of leaves to see the results.
S
SeaMaiden
I found that I don't need to with my piles of wood chips, the mushroomery/fungi find them very well on their own. Just add water. Sometimes, when I'm watering my squash that I have growing on a big pile of chips (see photo) I'll see these puffs of black 'dust'. That's a fungus of some sort, I'm sure, I just haven't a clue as to what it is. There are others that pop up, some look like a dog poop, others look kind of like mushrooms, others look like vomit.
I thought I had more photos of what I built. Basically, I got the tree-trimmers who work for PG&E out here to bring me two truckloads of chips. The loads had already begun fermenting. My goal was to push out the chips to help level the slopes. I got it done with one pile, the other still sits at the end of one of the driveways.
On top of the wood chips that I pushed down, I made piles of soil+compost. In or on those little bitty piles, I planted these squash. The squash are doing amazingly well considering they're now past the little soil piles and have likely rooted well into the wood chips. I figure they have been able to do this only because I have a good, active network of fungi and microbes there.
I thought I had more photos of what I built. Basically, I got the tree-trimmers who work for PG&E out here to bring me two truckloads of chips. The loads had already begun fermenting. My goal was to push out the chips to help level the slopes. I got it done with one pile, the other still sits at the end of one of the driveways.
On top of the wood chips that I pushed down, I made piles of soil+compost. In or on those little bitty piles, I planted these squash. The squash are doing amazingly well considering they're now past the little soil piles and have likely rooted well into the wood chips. I figure they have been able to do this only because I have a good, active network of fungi and microbes there.
Attachments
I have some leftover bulk dried dandelion (whole plant), yarrow, comfrey leaf, comfrey root, nettle leaf, nettle root, and borage, all obtained before I started growing them myself. Just about to harvest my garden and will be recycling the soil (in geopot-type containers). Wondering if I should make a custom leaf mold as a mulch, and if so, how that would integrate with the soil recycling process. Was also considering a living mulch of clover. Plant the clover after harvest and make the leaf mold in a separate bin? Plant the clover and pile up the bulk yarrow etc. on top after clover germinates? This will be my first soil recycling adventure so I am still getting up to speed on the timeline.
M
MrSterling
Floral, I've tried clover and just prefer a normal mulch of broken down wood materials, but living mulch has its advocates.
Thanks. Yes, I was wondering about clover just as a placeholder during recycling "down time" ("down time" as far as aboveground activity goes but not for the microbes and worms. No vacation for the microbes and worms.). I'd be a bit nervous about humidity and botrytis risk from living mulch during the regular growing season, but maybe that's a topic for the living mulch thread.
S
SeaMaiden
How about using something that you can eat or use otherwise, such as mustard, lettuces/greens, that sort of thing? I've been playing around with using whatever I can find as a green manure/cover crop, and one of the best I've found so far is fenugreek. I get the seeds at my local health food shop, they're pennies/ounce and only a few ounces are needed. We buy mustard seed in bulk for our home pickling and it germinates just fine, and for a fraction of the price of something like crimson clover. Even better? The micro-greens or even more mature greens are delicious. What's better than smoking a joint and grazing your way through your garden?
I'm suggesting this based on my experience with my tomatoes in a year-old bed, outside. I seem to always have issues, blossom end rot, plants showing they could use a lot more water, that sort of thing. I did two things differently this year and eliminated the BER--I performed two foliar applications of Sea-90, and planted some cover crops. The tomatoes where the cover crops took look lush and wonderful, even if ripening has slowed significantly now that the nights have cooled so much. And the blossom end rot, which everyone was telling me was due to uneven watering has been eliminated, 100%.
I attribute most of the elimination of the BER to the Sea-90 because I was also seeing it in my winter squashes, and the way those things prevent much of anything growing under them I didn't bother trying to cover crop them. The Sea-90 eliminated the BER from them as well.
If it were me, I would first make teas out of the stuff you have and would store those, and then put the leftovers somewhere to decompose, compost bin, worm bin, whatever you have or can do. If nothing else, I'd mix them into some outside soil for overwintering and most of the stuff should be broken down by next spring.
I'm suggesting this based on my experience with my tomatoes in a year-old bed, outside. I seem to always have issues, blossom end rot, plants showing they could use a lot more water, that sort of thing. I did two things differently this year and eliminated the BER--I performed two foliar applications of Sea-90, and planted some cover crops. The tomatoes where the cover crops took look lush and wonderful, even if ripening has slowed significantly now that the nights have cooled so much. And the blossom end rot, which everyone was telling me was due to uneven watering has been eliminated, 100%.
I attribute most of the elimination of the BER to the Sea-90 because I was also seeing it in my winter squashes, and the way those things prevent much of anything growing under them I didn't bother trying to cover crop them. The Sea-90 eliminated the BER from them as well.
If it were me, I would first make teas out of the stuff you have and would store those, and then put the leftovers somewhere to decompose, compost bin, worm bin, whatever you have or can do. If nothing else, I'd mix them into some outside soil for overwintering and most of the stuff should be broken down by next spring.
And I have some kale, arugula, cilantro, and lemon basil seeds in cold storage right now.
