"Mr extractor" discussion

[Gray Wolf]

Air blowing by a plastic container can build up static charge.

Fluids transferring through a plastic pipe can build up a static charge.

Fuel tankers build up a charge moving through the air and are bonded to the receiving tank before transfer.

Airplanes also build up a charge moving through the air as to the tankers, so they are bonded to the tankers before fuel transfer.

Anyone who has taken a synthetic (polymer) garment off over their head in the dark is aware of the fire works on something that is presumeably bonded exactly the same, yet with enough difference in resistance to ground to spark from one area to the other.

Especially noticeable on cold dry days.

Static spark dangers around liquified petroleum gases are no secret and not a myth.

If the demonstration had been done outside with proper ventilation and the pretty lady weren't exposed at flash level wearing a synthetic garment known to be a static spark hazard, it would have drawn less fire.

 

[waywardwolf]

GW, "How about those of us building competitive systems that are using pumps and equipment that are certified for the purpose."

CC, "Good, a right step in the wrong direction. Eventually this industry will follow all the others in the same field of high purity medical grade gas transfer, and they are all passive."

The Haskel pump is out there, kicking but, and safe, cheap recovery pumps are on their way, you're blind.

"Show me!"

 

[G.O. Joe]

First GW, let's talk about your new Sam Skunkman style when replying to posts from *certain people*. When I first saw you do this, I thought it was a tactic designed to automatically put the person you quote at a disadvantage, and CC said as much. It's very easy for you to hit the quote button and insert your blue as if I said it and put it in blue, but when I hit the quote button to reply, none of the text is there. You never said it because it's in my post, but I didn't say it. You and Sam should stop doing that and use quotes like everyone else does on internet forums, because it's bad form just like the videos.

Soak a rag in butane. Throw it around the room. When the butane evaporates, add some more. Smash it with a phone book. Push it in a tube and ram it out. Beat it with a bat. Let us know how long it takes for it to ignite.

Go ahead and make the safest possible product and write the most stringent best practices in order to prevent competition from everyone without a Halon system, in the name of safety, of course. CC's device has not been shown to be inherently dangerous - it's a given that most manufacturers using glass would have a polymer coating or wire mesh on it, but it's not a given that the glass breaks easily in use. Could someone make it dangerous? Could someone make spraying hair spray or lubricating with WD40 dangerous? It's no different. At some point, rational people draw a line on safety culture. Did CC say his design is safer than yours? Yes, butane in air is very flammable, people start fires, and BHO is going to lead to new laws as I predicted - I have never, ever, been in favor of using butane as the solvent. Have any of these butane fires been caused by static?

I don't think most fire marshals who you don't know would approve of any extraction device using any flammable liquid in the home. How about I ask my local fire marshal about making BHO with yours?

Don't freezers blow out all the time when BHOtards purge in them?

Now you have me saying it's OK to evaporate your butane in a freezer. I haven't looked up the exact LEL but it has to be above a few dozen milligrams per cubic foot. A few dozen milligrams is not purging in a freezer.

 

[snake11]

CC was right that if a person is going to discharge, it will be when they touch the machine. A few dozen milligrams of butane in air from opening the bottom or bleeding air are not going to present a hazard even in a freezer. I also dispute the danger of material soaked with flammables, since I work with such spent things all the time.

http://www.skyvalleychronicle.com/B...IGERATED-HASH-OIL-BLOWS-THE-FRIDGE-UP-1941655

It appears this guy had his tubes from a couple of days ago in his fridge and the amount of gas was enough to explode.

I have always appreciated your posts and info but I am surprised you are taking the stance that static is no big deal. There are fire codes for a reason. Type in static explosions and check out all of the different gas pump static explosions. I think being aware of static and trying to prevent is something we should be doing.

 

[MEMED]

ytf did he have his used tubes in the fridge? Bhotard?

 

[snake11]

ytf did he have his used tubes in the fridge? Bhotard?

I was scratching my head too.

 

[waywardwolf]

First GW, let's talk about your new Sam Skunkman style when replying to posts from *certain people*. When I first saw you do this, I thought it was a tactic designed to automatically put the person you quote at a disadvantage, and CC said as much. It's very easy for you to hit the quote button and insert your blue as if I said it and put it in blue, but when I hit the quote button to reply, none of the text is there. You never said it because it's in my post, but I didn't say it. You and Sam should stop doing that and use quotes like everyone else does on internet forums, because it's bad form just like the videos.

Soak a rag in butane. Throw it around the room. When the butane evaporates, add some more. Smash it with a phone book. Push it in a tube and ram it out. Beat it with a bat. Let us know how long it takes for it to ignite.



Go ahead and make the safest possible product and write the most stringent best practices in order to prevent competition from everyone without a Halon system, in the name of safety, of course. CC's device has not been shown to be inherently dangerous - it's a given that most manufacturers using glass would have a polymer coating or wire mesh on it, but it's not a given that the glass breaks easily in use. Could someone make it dangerous? Could someone make spraying hair spray or lubricating with WD40 dangerous? It's no different. At some point, rational people draw a line on safety culture. Did CC say his design is safer than yours? Yes, butane in air is very flammable, people start fires, and BHO is going to lead to new laws as I predicted - I have never, ever, been in favor of using butane as the solvent. Have any of these butane fires been caused by static?

I don't think most fire marshals who you don't know would approve of any extraction device using any flammable liquid in the home. How about I ask my local fire marshal about making BHO with yours?


Now you have me saying it's OK to evaporate your butane in a freezer. I haven't looked up the exact LEL but it has to be above a few dozen milligrams per cubic foot. A few dozen milligrams is not purging in a freezer.

Off the tracks. Put your money where your mouth is big mouth! And I'll just say it. Asshole! My cell number is 225-931-6500 & has been since they where bag phones..

 

[Payaso]

After watching yet another stunning video I have to wonder how any of this can be considered 'safe' enough to be doing in any residential area. Thanks for posting that Snake11...

Fortunately we have the wisdom of Gray Wolf to guide us here, and we should concentrate on the message, not going ballistic on the messenger for style.

Peace...and better living through chemistry for all.

 

[G.O. Joe]

I am surprised you are taking the stance that static is no big deal.

It's the result of practicing chemistry with flammable solvents for over 30 years, and not having fires caused by static, even though it's very dry here in the winter when I get shocked every day - pro tip: discharge with your palms. As I said, static was never mentioned in school, in chemistry books, or at the several chemical plants I've worked in and handled volatile flammable solvents such as ether, petroleum ether, acetone, methanol, and methyl formate.

Off the tracks. Put your money where your mouth is big mouth! And I'll just say it. Asshole! My cell number is

I'n not calling anyone - any names - and it would never occur to me to call someone a liar if they said they had a fire caused by static while using this or another extractor. I have no experience with butane other than using lighters. If people here have had butane fires from static - I don't read most of these BHO threads - I defer to experience.

 

[Hydrosun]

CC was right that if a person is going to discharge, it will be when they touch the machine. A few dozen milligrams of butane in air from opening the bottom or bleeding air are not going to present a hazard even in a freezer.

Now you have me saying it's OK to evaporate your butane in a freezer. I haven't looked up the exact LEL but it has to be above a few dozen milligrams per cubic foot. A few dozen milligrams is not purging in a freezer.

I am confused by the two statements above. I am going to vape some CLS junk oil (really need to make some better stuff tomorrow), and think about it....

You've been here 6+ years and I don't have any beef with you.

 

[GratefulOne]

There are a lot of documented causes of static starting fires. It is one of the leading causes of industrial fires.

http://www.csb.gov/videos/static-sparks-explosion-in-kansas/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/northamptonshire/6656561.stm

Many more out there.

Static control was always something the fire marshal spent ton of time checking when I was in industry. In a properly set up plant/lab there will be an extremely low chance of a fire.

 

[youareaniceguy]

Off the tracks. Put your money where your mouth is big mouth! And I'll just say it. Asshole! My cell number is xxx-xxx-xxxx & has been since they where bag phones..

'1 member found this helpful'.

Who and why? Seriously, such an embarrassing post.

 

[Gray Wolf]

First GW, let's talk about your new Sam Skunkman style when replying to posts from *certain people*. When I first saw you do this, I thought it was a tactic designed to automatically put the person you quote at a disadvantage, and CC said as much. It's very easy for you to hit the quote button and insert your blue as if I said it and put it in blue, but when I hit the quote button to reply, none of the text is there. You never said it because it's in my post, but I didn't say it. You and Sam should stop doing that and use quotes like everyone else does on internet forums, because it's bad form just like the videos.

When someone writes a long rambling post, weaving a tapestry of truths, half truths, and multiple untrue points, the best way I know of, is to deal with it one issue at a time, so that when the end is reached, the individual points of disagreement are well understood, as is the reason for rejecting the rambling posts conclusion.

Since you haven't figured out on your own how to do it, consider copying and pasting the whole post, rather than relying on the quote button.

Soak a rag in butane. Throw it around the room. When the butane evaporates, add some more. Smash it with a phone book. Push it in a tube and ram it out. Beat it with a bat. Let us know how long it takes for it to ignite.

This seems a long way from anything we've talked about and is so far into hyperbole that I'm guessing you are out of meaningful input. How does this apply to static discharges?

Go ahead and make the safest possible product and write the most stringent best practices in order to prevent competition from everyone without a Halon system, in the name of safety, of course. CC's device has not been shown to be inherently dangerous - it's a given that most manufacturers using glass would have a polymer coating or wire mesh on it, but it's not a given that the glass breaks easily in use. Could someone make it dangerous? Could someone make spraying hair spray or lubricating with WD40 dangerous? It's no different. At some point, rational people draw a line on safety culture.

Did CC say his design is safer than yours?

Yes he did, hence my showing his points invalid. Why did you think I posted them?

Yes, butane in air is very flammable, people start fires, and BHO is going to lead to new laws as I predicted - I have never, ever, been in favor of using butane as the solvent. Have any of these butane fires been caused by static?

Yes, some have been reported as probable static, and it is regularly discussed on forums. NFPA thought it a serious enough issue that they wrote a whole section about it.

It is commonly accepted at fueling stations, which you will be fired for not following, and yet you want to argue that you are smarter than the authors, without even bothering to read it.

I don't think most fire marshals who you don't know would approve of any extraction device using any flammable liquid in the home.

I agree. And certainly not as demonstrated in the video. Why do you think that might be?

How about I ask my local fire marshal about making BHO with yours?

As long as you submit the whole package, fly to it. WolfWurx make fire marshal friendly turnkey systems with a Haskel pump.

Now you have me saying it's OK to evaporate your butane in a freezer. I haven't looked up the exact LEL but it has to be above a few dozen milligrams per cubic foot. A few dozen milligrams is not purging in a freezer.

Not sure how we have you doing or saying anything bro.

There is a difference between building something and operating it yourself, and selling something to be used by others. From my perspective you appear to be unaware of the differences.

As an engineer, I was never allowed to install anything for others to operate, that didn't meet all applicable codes, especially OSHA. Do I need to point out that the CC system doesn't meet those requirements either?

You also appear to be under the misconception that CC will automatically belly up to the bar to cover any product liability. You don't have a clue what their assets are or if they even have product liability and yet still don't seem to care. Caveat emptor, fuck the customer if there is injury???

You don't appear concerned that they are not ANSI/ASME rated, yet are high enough pressure to require that certification in the states that now have regulation.

In fact, you appear to have missed most of the cogent points, and are arguing points that we both know you will lose with a fire marshal. Why do you continue to do so brother GJ?

 

[Aeroguerilla]

Hey hash master wolf if you had to choose 1 CLS system on the market which one would it be?

 

[krunchbubble]

'1 member found this helpful'.

Who and why? Seriously, such an embarrassing post.

I did, because I like the guy....

So now what?

 

[youareaniceguy]

I did, because I like the guy....

So now what?

Nothing.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I'n not calling anyone - any names - and it would never occur to me to call someone a liar if they said they had a fire caused by static while using this or another extractor. I have no experience with butane other than using lighters. If people here have had butane fires from static - I don't read most of these BHO threads - I defer to experience.

I don't advocate personal attacks either, though I can see where frustration levels might be rising.

If you have no experience with butane handling and extraction, why have you taken such a major antagonistic role in this discussion?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Hey hash master wolf if you had to choose 1 CLS system on the market which one would it be?

My best answer is to read my feet and look at what I've done with both passive and active systems.

If I thought there was anything better out there than what I design, I would build it.

Passive extraction has clearly taken a back seat when it comes to commercial extraction, because of its limitations and speed.

Passive is a handy way for ma and pa to make small quantities of a limited range of products.

No need to pay more than what it takes to build a Lil Terp at under $500. You can use simple buckets for the dry ice and hot water.

 

[Kcar]

My best answer is to read my feet and look at what I've done with both passive and active systems.

If I thought there was anything better out there than what I design, I would build it.

Passive extraction has clearly taken a back seat when it comes to commercial extraction, because of its limitations and speed.

Passive is a handy way for ma and pa to make small quantities of a limited range of products.

No need to pay more than what it takes to build a Lil Terp at under $500. You can use simple buckets for the dry ice and hot water.

Absolutely! Why pay 6000+ dollars for a passive cls when you can easily build one for 500 or so? And one that is inherently safer. Using glass as a material chamber is just stupid.
Thanks GW for freely giving out specs and parts lists for the Little Terp and your other designs!!!

 

[SkyHighLer]

Hey hash master wolf if you had to choose 1 CLS system on the market which one would it be?

My best answer is to read my feet and look at what I've done with both passive and active systems.

If I thought there was anything better out there than what I design, I would build it.

Passive extraction has clearly taken a back seat when it comes to commercial extraction, because of its limitations and speed.

Passive is a handy way for ma and pa to make small quantities of a limited range of products.

No need to pay more than what it takes to build a Lil Terp at under $500. You can use simple buckets for the dry ice and hot water.

And just for comparison sake since the door was opened to GW's work versus the thread's topic, namely a very expensive, do little device, with marginal safety precautions taken in it's design, oh, and with an uppity title to match, MR. EXTRACTOR.

Now let me take you downtown, to cheap Terps, where the definition of "best" takes a turn, lol, Best Value Vacs passive and active terp clones,
http://www.bestvaluevacs.com/passive-closed-loop.html

I don't know if I'd buy a CLS from them, but they're expanding their field and depth of product lineup it seems like daily. But compare the piece of upgradeable equipment you get from them versus Mr Honey Buns, sorry it's a stubby, have some honey... ;-)) And no Drew you do not have permission to use "Mr Honey Buns" in your advertising...

Hey GW, how many disfiguring blow ups you think have occurred from fueling up a Coleman while the fool was way drunk? And those things continued to be the go to when camping for many decades... Decent design, but very dangerous, and we lived with it, despite the crazy fools who abuse their privileges in life, speaking of which ___back to Mr Extractor.