daddyweez2000
Member
Iv'e cracked over a hundred seeds and its a little hot but it works great
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moonshine mix
- Thread starter mysta177
- Start date
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- shane botwin
Crhazey Daze
Member
Wow, this is by far the best thread i've read in a while. Especially since i'm going to jump into the moonshine revolution. I sure the MSM doesntt burn the little ones. Worst case scenario i'll just use the rapid rooters w/ the dome and spray when needed.
When you toss the seeds directly into the MSM, do you throw crack them in water/paper towel first or solely toss an inch down into the mix and water?
When you toss the seeds directly into the MSM, do you throw crack them in water/paper towel first or solely toss an inch down into the mix and water?
daddyweez2000
Member
I used bottled water a little H2O2 and some paper towels put the seeds in a dish above my cable box for warmth and a week later they're ready to go
G
Guest
Great thread!!!
Greeseyder
Member
OK I am all ready having issues with this mix! Transplanted babies in ~4wks ago, watering with plain ole h2o with a ph of 6.2-3 (letting them dry to the point of slight droop) & they are looking like they have a N def OR a lockout started. FUK!!! Ideas anyone???? I was considering hitting them with some lime to sweeten & unlock .......help me out I like this mix and wanna dial it in!
Greeseyder
Member
Thx Jiggy.... I didn't add any ferts (yet) still wondering my best course of action....will the lime do the trick or do I need to do something more?
Thanks much,
G
EDI: here is a pic
Thanks much,
G
EDI: here is a pic
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Gree,
Your plants may be a bit root bound by now and/or the soil may be depleted of nitrogen. I would transplant into bigger pots of the mix sooner and/or be prepared to supplement with a liquid veg tea/fert when you first start showing signs of any deficiency.
Id like to reiterate again that to use this mix, you should use something close to Moonshine man's veg schedule and time your transplants carefully if you want to use water only.
Your plants may be a bit root bound by now and/or the soil may be depleted of nitrogen. I would transplant into bigger pots of the mix sooner and/or be prepared to supplement with a liquid veg tea/fert when you first start showing signs of any deficiency.
Id like to reiterate again that to use this mix, you should use something close to Moonshine man's veg schedule and time your transplants carefully if you want to use water only.
J
JollyGreen
Get Ready Guys! I have the new updated version of the MSM, straight from the Man Himself MoonShineMan. After years of working with the Mix, MoonShineMan has had the greats success when using the Following Updated Version:
1 Ocean Forest
1/2 bag Light warrior
1/2 bag of Planting Mix (or happy frog)
1/3 of a bag of the Chunky perilite (approx 5 gallons)
1 cup of starter POM
and for floweringmix I add 1 cup of POM fruit an flower.
I just transplanted some seedlings in the mix, They Seem to be doing just fine.
1 Ocean Forest
1/2 bag Light warrior
1/2 bag of Planting Mix (or happy frog)
1/3 of a bag of the Chunky perilite (approx 5 gallons)
1 cup of starter POM
and for floweringmix I add 1 cup of POM fruit an flower.
I just transplanted some seedlings in the mix, They Seem to be doing just fine.
Greeseyder
Member
Hey now JG, do you think its possible that my plants have already used most of the N in the mix? They have only been in it for ~5wks. & they aren't near rootbound....I didn't add the dry ferts because it seemed so rich already.......I'm gonna dose 'em with some blood meal tonight I think.........let me know yer thoughts.....
G
G
Rat_Genius
New member
noice.....i still need to purchase alot before i start my first worg but it will be bomb if i keep reading the great feedback!
J
JollyGreen
Greeseyder said:
Wuz up Greeseyder, it might be possible you used up some of the nitrogen in veg, I think it depends on the strain grown. If its not a nitrogen def, most likely its a cal-mag def. or lockout. I would flush them with ph balanced water at 6.5. Then wait a few days and see what happends. If the problem stops, it might of been a lockout problem. If problems persist just try adding some nitrogen or cal-mag.
JollyGreen said:
Very interesting update. Seems like a significant tweak to the mix. This also seems to jive with grower experience here. This new mix seems a bit less hot with only 1/2 bag light warrior and 1/2 bag planting mix.
kinda makes me wonder though, if the original mix was developed over years of experirmentation, why did Moonshine man not arrive at this updated mix sooner?
My guess is the starter mix. After Moonshine man added the starter mix, he realized that there were too many ferts in there. I'm guessing that this is why he reduced the planting mix to half a bag.
In total volume , this mix is now mostly Ocean Forrest with perlite + dry ferts. The half bag of LW doesnt amount to much. Neither does the planting mix.
I'd be interested to see the difference in results with this updated mix vs just pure uncut ocean forest. It seems that the amount of ferts would be similar.
I wonder if Moonshine man ever ran just pure ocean forrest with the dry ferts before.
Any other thoughts on this updated mix?
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fatboy210
New member
Ok so i kinda designed my own mixture following msm's general rules.
How does this mixture sound?
1 bag of Ocean Forest
1 bag of Light Warrior
1 bag of Happy Frog
6 gallons of Perelite
1 cup Peace of Mind Fruit and flower
1 cup Peace of Mind Starter
Ill be using this nute mixture also once the plants go into flower.
1st feeding mixed in a 5 gallon bucket day 5-7
1Tblspn of Mother Earth Organic Tea grow (advanced Nutrients)
1tblspn of Mother Earth Tea Bloom (Advanced Nutrients)
1tblspn of Dr Hornbys Iguana Juice Bloom (Advanced Nutrients)
2nd feeding at day 25-30
1 Tblspn of Mother Earth Grow
2Tblspn of Mother Earth Bloom
2 Tblspn of Iguana Juice Bloom
Also this will be used outdoor and im gonna dig up some holes and refill them with the mix.
How does this mixture sound?
1 bag of Ocean Forest
1 bag of Light Warrior
1 bag of Happy Frog
6 gallons of Perelite
1 cup Peace of Mind Fruit and flower
1 cup Peace of Mind Starter
Ill be using this nute mixture also once the plants go into flower.
1st feeding mixed in a 5 gallon bucket day 5-7
1Tblspn of Mother Earth Organic Tea grow (advanced Nutrients)
1tblspn of Mother Earth Tea Bloom (Advanced Nutrients)
1tblspn of Dr Hornbys Iguana Juice Bloom (Advanced Nutrients)
2nd feeding at day 25-30
1 Tblspn of Mother Earth Grow
2Tblspn of Mother Earth Bloom
2 Tblspn of Iguana Juice Bloom
Also this will be used outdoor and im gonna dig up some holes and refill them with the mix.
Rat_Genius
New member
still seems like alot of nuts for outdoors...must be some sitty ground soil round your parts. try to bring in natural compost from around your location site and search for good ground soil hot spots with signs of compost in it....should help some
sophisto
Member
Wow is all I have to say...Alot of work and effort has been put into documenting this mix and it's ups and downs....
I really like this mix I do have some input on it though...
Seems that the two main problems I have seen are cal-mag issues and over nitrification ( too much N)..minor problems which cause major problems are over watering or improper ph....I call them minor because they are so easily avoided..Plus if your soil is built correctly Ph isnt really an issue......as far as soil biology goes, Bacteria raise ph fungi lower it...
Heres my thoughts on the mix as is by MSM( just thoughts
) What if for strains that seemed to have to much N the ph was dropped to 6.2?? Would certainly make Cal more available right?? Also dolomite lime seems to not help everyone with their issues what about the addition of sul-po mag, 0-0-22 added into the mix...the extra K will help other nutrients be absorbed and better utilized by the plants plus a nice boost of mag and sulfur ( the stuff is basically epsom salts in an organic horticulture grade)....Bigger stems and shoots are never a bad thing either...
Another point,
The idea that MSM created is basically what happens in old growth forests...( "Noone ever fertilized and old growth forest") You basically create a mix that will sustain a plant and keep it healthy throughout the different stages of it's life...But does this mix or any other mix do this for every strain???? IMO nope...This doesnt take away from MSM at all it is just an example of how if you cant read your plants or misinterpret what they need you will have issues...MSM and others have years and years of experience they know what the plants need..This mix I am sure has been perfect for him and others as they can see what the plant needs before an issue occurs.. Some of the others here including myself somethimes do not know how to properly read the plants..
Something I might try personally with this mix in the near future to make it so I never have to add anything but wa wa ro style...oh yeh and three teas to get, replenish and sustain the microherd and create a healthier and happier soil..
My future mix...
-1 bag ocean forest
- 1/4 bag eb stone planting compost
-1 bag light warrior
-1 bag planting mix
- Sul po mag 1/2 dose
-1/4 cup dolomite lime just for some extra Cal
-5 gallons big chunky perlite
My three basic teas which can always support the addition of a high N guano for veg and a high P guano for flower would be something like this,( straight from the compost tea brewing manual edition 5 by Elaine Ingham...Except the additions of Guano if needed, these are ideas I have taken from others.... I will let the plants speak before I tweak any thing
All ingredients are to be added into 5 gallons of water or divide accordingly for smaller amounts...Also the tea's must be bubbled a minimum of 24 hours...
tea one early veg ( jumpstart for the microbes) -1.5 lbs of bacterial compost
-1.6 ounces of Black strap molasses
-25 grams soluble cold water kelp
-1/2 oz yucca extracts or liquid karma
I Could also add 1-2 tbsp N guano if I need it...
LAte veg early flower:
-1.5 lbs of bacterial fungal compost 1:1 ratio otherwise 1/2 bacterial 1/2 mushroom compost
-1.6 ounces humic acids
- 25 g soluble kelp
- maybe some fruit pulp too ???
I may add 4-8 tbsp of 0-7-0 guano to add a boost mid flower as well, again if the plants need it..
Mid to late mid flower:
-2lbs fungal compost ( mushroom)
-60 ml humic acids
-10 ml yucca extract
-25 grams soluble kelp
-25 grams fish hydrolysate
again I can add some 0-7-0 guano of I need it ......
I basically feel that the basic MSM mix needs more micro life to utilize all that is in the soil already....If teas were applied, the plants could better utilize what it already has and no nutrients will be needed at all... I have alreay seen the power of teas for the first time this past grow and my nutrients went down alot as a result...The old growth forest theory has ruled all my future thoughts on growing, as has this thread....
I am thinking that the addition of some good compost in the mix will help the herd nicely and again if the plants need it, guanos eiter N, or P will help boost things a bit...The sul-po mag will help things go smoother potentially and also the dolomite will help with a little extra Cal in the soil....
these of course are all thoughts I am not close minded if this helps someone great if you can help me find something better help me out....
thanks again for all the great posts lets keep this thread alive.....
I really like this mix I do have some input on it though...
Seems that the two main problems I have seen are cal-mag issues and over nitrification ( too much N)..minor problems which cause major problems are over watering or improper ph....I call them minor because they are so easily avoided..Plus if your soil is built correctly Ph isnt really an issue......as far as soil biology goes, Bacteria raise ph fungi lower it...
Heres my thoughts on the mix as is by MSM( just thoughts
) What if for strains that seemed to have to much N the ph was dropped to 6.2?? Would certainly make Cal more available right?? Also dolomite lime seems to not help everyone with their issues what about the addition of sul-po mag, 0-0-22 added into the mix...the extra K will help other nutrients be absorbed and better utilized by the plants plus a nice boost of mag and sulfur ( the stuff is basically epsom salts in an organic horticulture grade)....Bigger stems and shoots are never a bad thing either...Another point,
The idea that MSM created is basically what happens in old growth forests...( "Noone ever fertilized and old growth forest") You basically create a mix that will sustain a plant and keep it healthy throughout the different stages of it's life...But does this mix or any other mix do this for every strain???? IMO nope...This doesnt take away from MSM at all it is just an example of how if you cant read your plants or misinterpret what they need you will have issues...MSM and others have years and years of experience they know what the plants need..This mix I am sure has been perfect for him and others as they can see what the plant needs before an issue occurs.. Some of the others here including myself somethimes do not know how to properly read the plants..
Something I might try personally with this mix in the near future to make it so I never have to add anything but wa wa ro style...oh yeh and three teas to get, replenish and sustain the microherd and create a healthier and happier soil..
My future mix...
-1 bag ocean forest
- 1/4 bag eb stone planting compost
-1 bag light warrior
-1 bag planting mix
- Sul po mag 1/2 dose
-1/4 cup dolomite lime just for some extra Cal
-5 gallons big chunky perlite
My three basic teas which can always support the addition of a high N guano for veg and a high P guano for flower would be something like this,( straight from the compost tea brewing manual edition 5 by Elaine Ingham...Except the additions of Guano if needed, these are ideas I have taken from others.... I will let the plants speak before I tweak any thing
All ingredients are to be added into 5 gallons of water or divide accordingly for smaller amounts...Also the tea's must be bubbled a minimum of 24 hours...
tea one early veg ( jumpstart for the microbes) -1.5 lbs of bacterial compost
-1.6 ounces of Black strap molasses
-25 grams soluble cold water kelp
-1/2 oz yucca extracts or liquid karma
I Could also add 1-2 tbsp N guano if I need it...
LAte veg early flower:
-1.5 lbs of bacterial fungal compost 1:1 ratio otherwise 1/2 bacterial 1/2 mushroom compost
-1.6 ounces humic acids
- 25 g soluble kelp
- maybe some fruit pulp too ???
I may add 4-8 tbsp of 0-7-0 guano to add a boost mid flower as well, again if the plants need it..
Mid to late mid flower:
-2lbs fungal compost ( mushroom)
-60 ml humic acids
-10 ml yucca extract
-25 grams soluble kelp
-25 grams fish hydrolysate
again I can add some 0-7-0 guano of I need it ......
I basically feel that the basic MSM mix needs more micro life to utilize all that is in the soil already....If teas were applied, the plants could better utilize what it already has and no nutrients will be needed at all... I have alreay seen the power of teas for the first time this past grow and my nutrients went down alot as a result...The old growth forest theory has ruled all my future thoughts on growing, as has this thread....
I am thinking that the addition of some good compost in the mix will help the herd nicely and again if the plants need it, guanos eiter N, or P will help boost things a bit...The sul-po mag will help things go smoother potentially and also the dolomite will help with a little extra Cal in the soil....
these of course are all thoughts I am not close minded if this helps someone great if you can help me find something better help me out....
thanks again for all the great posts lets keep this thread alive.....
mysta177
Active member
Nice something to ponder.......I just pick the strains that grow well in the MSMix.....So far ALL Cali Kushes and chem ROCK in the org mix so not much more I need than that. I have played many tiimes with the mix and nailed some diff strains. I do know even half of the dose cal mag calls for has been to much IMO. That stuff is wicked. I like your post a lot of useful 411 in there! Keep er Green
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mysta177
Active member
blue sat
ssh
blue dot
banana kush
snow cap
and couple more...Over water like I say is a HUGE problem with this mix. It will cause all kinds of diff chit to your ladies. Yea I love the Kush....some of the best weed IMO. There are more out there that im going to be giving a run like trinity, green crack, Grandaddy, 4 diff OG's, cheese, A walker, G Goat, soul assain...hmm some more to come.
ssh
blue dot
banana kush
snow cap
and couple more...Over water like I say is a HUGE problem with this mix. It will cause all kinds of diff chit to your ladies. Yea I love the Kush....some of the best weed IMO. There are more out there that im going to be giving a run like trinity, green crack, Grandaddy, 4 diff OG's, cheese, A walker, G Goat, soul assain...hmm some more to come.
Rollin Face
Member
Soul Assasin should be awesome!! what up mysta!! yeah i got my ladies flowering the the mix right now....i love this combo personally and yes even a mild nute will burn plants in this mix!!
