Mk V Terpenator

[Dab Strudel]

The you can top flood both columns about half as long as you can one at a time, before reaching upper limits.

Rule Number 1. The limitation on how much and how fast you can flood a Mk V system, is the size of your lower catch container and recovery speed, versus the rate you are flooding.

You have to keep the violently bubbling pool of liquid away from the pump intake, so as not to aspirate liquid into the pump. I prefer to use a minimum of 6" clearance, and with highly enriched material, that can be cutting things short, as the full 12" tall chamber fills with cotton candy under vacuum.

How efficiently you are "top showering" a column, is a function of the diameter of the orifice the butane is flowing into the column from, vis a vis the diameter of the column.

A 1/4" to 3/8" orifice in the center of a 2 to 4" column will not wash the material immediately adjacent to the injection port, as thoroughly as that in the center and even the sides further down the column.

Gravity flows mostly take the path of least resistance, so don't wet the sides of the column, where there is more resistance to flow, as thoroughly as the easy path it finds through.

Besides the obvious issue of gas venting, another prime reason that I prefer to bottom flood and top rinse to glean the residuals.

What I miss in residuals from a thin film of the last wash, is small compared to what I miss top showering alone, without over washing.

If your bragging rights credits are for museum quality shatters and waxes, and you are not willing to give up yield, consider putting a tee at the bottom and use dual valves and collection pots to separate the wash for museum quality and that for medibles.

Certainly you can dump one column and flood another at the same time, as long as you obey rule Number 1.

Getting more pump has its limits, as does more surface area for boiling, because of falling pressure ratings in sanitary connections as they grow larger.

The long part of the process is recovery. Our best dual cycle run with a Mk VA2, was 2 hours and 11 minutes, about 12 minutes of that time was flood and rinse/dump even the dual 4" X 36" column.

If you cut that flood time 99%, it would still take a couple hours to run dual cycle runs. That is why I have personally elected to not compromise on my control of flooding, and focusing process improvement on faster recovery.

We cut cycle time by about a third using a DI/ISO heat exchanger, and expect to cut it further once the N2 is hooked up to that system.

I envisioned the dual columns on the Mk V design, as a way for a commercial operator to swap columns while running the other one, so as to never have to shut down.

It also gives them the option to load 5 to 7# of material at one time, so as to minimize how many times they have to attend to loading. All her owners describe her as an animal and a beast.

For smaller columns and speed, a manual Mk IV is faster, and a Mk IV design, built on a Mk V 12" base, would be faster yet.

Too little heavy to be horsing around all day without having the superstructure supported for most of us'n man childs or sister women, but with a cart it would be faster than a 10" Mk IV.

With your design and encouraging tips I've created the Megazord. With anymore thoughts I believe parts will be ordered monday! With all those ball valves I can have 2 10x12 spools, one for museum quality and one for mass quality, and a 6x6 spool attached for heating and medible quality. If both end up being the same quality the best I can say is I can do a whole days work before I open anything. I'm thinking the mass quality will be sitting in the tane as I will be over flowing on the museum quality one time only before switching to the mass quality pot. In between switching I will let it sit for a moment to be as productive as possible before dumping and a long shower. As the column heats up and is dumping in the 6x6 I will begin the right column. I believe with gas money vs delivery and spare parts I can pull this guy off for under 2500. Don't get me wrong, I haven't tallied up my pricing guide and I have one or two expensive pieces but if I don't hit 2k ill be surprised. Let me know if I can clarify anything up. The long 1/4" pipes going up are going to be cut off at a certain height and is going to be hosed to the 3" end caps, and if I can find them to be what I assume them to be, I will use 3"-2" cap reducers instead of 3" end caps where I will use ss wool and fit my coffee filters. And I just noticed I didn't put in my injection port, that is going to be on a cross instead of a T where the top two yellow 1/4" ball valves connect.
Heres two off the top for ya, should I leave my dump stem (where the 2" TirClamp T connects to the welded 6"x7" spool) or should I connect it to the 10" lid and remove it from the vicinity of the vac pumps 1" cross as well as take down the overall (unknown) height?
Second, I placed the dump stem strategically to be in the center of the 10"x12", how long should i make said dump stem? flush with the bottom of the 6"x7"? Thank you all in advance for your input

 

[Permacultuure]

My first concern is the weight of the columns with no direct support.
My second concern is how slow your recovery times will be. You essentially of the cubic inches of two MKV systems. This means you can expect a recovery on the entire seem to creep toward 4 hrs, conservatively IMO

Also, what is it that you are trying to achieve with this setup? Are you just trying to extract two grades of oil out of one column? If this is the case there are much easier and more affordable methods.

Can you explain what the 6x7 spools roll is? and are you just having that custom built?

KISS is a rule of thumb that can easily be overlooked in this industry

 

[Chonkski]

KISS is a rule of thumb that can easily be overlooked in this industry

Guilty

 

[Gray Wolf]

With your design and encouraging tips I've created the Megazord. With anymore thoughts I believe parts will be ordered monday! With all those ball valves I can have 2 10x12 spools, one for museum quality and one for mass quality, and a 6x6 spool attached for heating and medible quality. If both end up being the same quality the best I can say is I can do a whole days work before I open anything. I'm thinking the mass quality will be sitting in the tane as I will be over flowing on the museum quality one time only before switching to the mass quality pot. In between switching I will let it sit for a moment to be as productive as possible before dumping and a long shower. As the column heats up and is dumping in the 6x6 I will begin the right column. I believe with gas money vs delivery and spare parts I can pull this guy off for under 2500. Don't get me wrong, I haven't tallied up my pricing guide and I have one or two expensive pieces but if I don't hit 2k ill be surprised. Let me know if I can clarify anything up. The long 1/4" pipes going up are going to be cut off at a certain height and is going to be hosed to the 3" end caps, and if I can find them to be what I assume them to be, I will use 3"-2" cap reducers instead of 3" end caps where I will use ss wool and fit my coffee filters. And I just noticed I didn't put in my injection port, that is going to be on a cross instead of a T where the top two yellow 1/4" ball valves connect.
Heres two off the top for ya, should I leave my dump stem (where the 2" TirClamp T connects to the welded 6"x7" spool) or should I connect it to the 10" lid and remove it from the vicinity of the vac pumps 1" cross as well as take down the overall (unknown) height?
Second, I placed the dump stem strategically to be in the center of the 10"x12", how long should i make said dump stem? flush with the bottom of the 6"x7"? Thank you all in advance for your input

Your design should work, and is similar to the Mk VI design using six columns and four collection pots.

As noted by PC, handling is an issue, so WolfWurx mounts all of the turnkey systems on carts, that supports everything from the column up, by mounting them to a frame.

That is easy to do with links attached to the three piece ball valve bolts, and for instance, a Mk V's dual columns, are held in place with 1/4" X 3/4" flat bars, secured with longer grade 8 bolts replacing four of the valve bolts, and eight grade 8 bolts, with nylon inserted jamb nuts securing the assembly to the frame.

You can add rigidity at the base of the columns, and take stress off the column to valve connection, by using rigid plumbing between the two column injection and recovery spools, so as to lock them together at that point.

As also noted, you need more pumping capacity, or more time, so suggest you give that some thought.

$2500 is ambitious if that includes everything. That is about what WolfWurx pays for their custom built Mk IV/V stainless support frames. Is that guts, feathers and all?

Check your overall height. I had to mount the Mk VI spools on a frame with stairs and a raised walkway behind it, to make it feasible for a commercial operation.

As to your questions, the only underlying reason that I can see for a spool on top a spool, besides the original reason for the design, is that if you also extend your down tubes to within a few inches of the bottom of the 10" spool, you have added protection from ingesting oil laden liquid.

The original reason for the design, was to use a larger base on a Mk III, and save some of the additional cost to upgrade to a Mk IV.

 

[knowhere]

where did you get your silicone heaters for the columns ? what size ? those look like 2x 24" tri clamp spools correct >? .. thanks

 

[Gray Wolf]

where did you get your silicone heaters for the columns ? what size ? those look like 2x 24" tri clamp spools correct >? .. thanks

We've bought them from both Omega and Briskheat, but started buying them custom made in China. They are 4" X 24" or 4" X 36" columns.

 

[Dab Strudel]

Theres alot off good info here, will take a moment to respond to it all once I take it in. Are the heat mats 2.5 or 5 watt?

 

[Pangea]

Your design should work, and is similar to the Mk VI design using six columns and four collection pots.

As noted by PC, handling is an issue, so WolfWurx mounts all of the turnkey systems on carts, that supports everything from the column up, by mounting them to a frame.

That is easy to do with links attached to the three piece ball valve bolts, and for instance, a Mk V's dual columns, are held in place with 1/4" X 3/4" flat bars, secured with longer grade 8 bolts replacing four of the valve bolts, and eight grade 8 bolts, with nylon inserted jamb nuts securing the assembly to the frame.

You can add rigidity at the base of the columns, and take stress off the column to valve connection, by using rigid plumbing between the two column injection and recovery spools, so as to lock them together at that point....

You can make out the attachment somewhat on the pics of skunkpharms MKV2,

Makes a lot of sense, kinda reminds me of commercial reverse osmosis setups, never seen one without a frame/cart to secure the pressure vessels.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Theres alot off good info here, will take a moment to respond to it all once I take it in. Are the heat mats 2.5 or 5 watt?

The column mats are 2.5W and the lower tank mat is 5W.

 

[Dab Strudel]

I am favorably impressed with the Mypin TA-4 RNR self learning PID temperature controllers that I picked up on sale from Rakuten for $26 ea. I like the same model better, that provides a miliamp output, instead of just contacts.

Based on the way they program, I suspect they are the controls supplier to Across International vacuum ovens.

Is this still your desired pid? Im looking for a couple to control (4) 2.5w 12"x12" and (4) 5w 11"x11" mats to tame this beast. I sure hope this comes together the way I dream of it. Im sure it will.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Is this still your desired pid? Im looking for a couple to control (4) 2.5w 12"x12" and (4) 5w 11"x11" mats to tame this beast. I sure hope this comes together the way I dream of it. Im sure it will.

Hee, hee, hee, I'm voting with my pocket book and have had excellent luck with the relatively inexpensive Mypin, but up until retirement normally used Watlow controllers.

 

[Dab Strudel]

Hee, hee, hee, I'm voting with my pocket book and have had excellent luck with the relatively inexpensive Mypin, but up until retirement normally used Watlow controllers.

I can't even pretend I know much about a PID, and I use an oven and a heat mat (pre made). I looked at watlows line up they have, and because I didnt see the abbreviation PID once I didnt know what to look for... sad. That being said I dont know how one would build a pid, what else id need to buy other than that mypin. Any relay items or soldiering iron to connect these heat mats to the pid? Or perhaps a link to how to do this? I definitely have the ability, just not the knowledge in this category. I will continue the venture of learning the way of the pid

 

[Dab Strudel]

No one has a link for wiring a pid to a heat mat? Or is it self explanatory?

 

[GratefulOne]

No one has a link for wiring a pid to a heat mat? Or is it self explanatory?

Check youtube. Lots of easy how to's.

 

[SkyHighLer]

No one has a link for wiring a pid to a heat mat? Or is it self explanatory?

The basic wiring is no big deal, if you want it in a fancy enclosure, you've got a hobby project.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=6638465#post6638465

 

[queequeg152]

please forgive my ignorance... but what exactly is the point of using a solvent that is gaseous at STP? as an engineering student/chemistry minor, i could just never figure that one out. i understand why folks use it on the small scale, but not on a large one.

there are any number of suitable solvents... that are entirely liquid phase at STP, that would be far more convenient. Cyclohexane comes to mind right away, as its used widely with oilseeds.

so what gives? you guys seem to be using isobutane almost exclusively.
spare no details, i have a section 608 card with my name on it... so id like to think ive got the rudiments.
but feel free to snub/berate, as i suppose i am an interloper here. lol.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I can't even pretend I know much about a PID, and I use an oven and a heat mat (pre made). I looked at watlows line up they have, and because I didnt see the abbreviation PID once I didnt know what to look for... sad. That being said I dont know how one would build a pid, what else id need to buy other than that mypin. Any relay items or soldiering iron to connect these heat mats to the pid? Or perhaps a link to how to do this? I definitely have the ability, just not the knowledge in this category. I will continue the venture of learning the way of the pid

We use PID in technojargon babbletalk, cause its handy and because most of the time we can't remember what it literally means.

It actually literally stands for a proportional-intergral-derivative controller, which means it is a temperature controller with a feed back loop that calculates the error between the measured varible and the set point, and makes adjustments based on the feedback.

Instead of just turning on at the low set point and turning off at the high set point, it turns on and off in short intervals, which become further apart and briefer as it approaches set point.

Many have a learning mode, which you can put it in, so that it self teaches itself to more closely control when and how much power to apply, so as to narrow down the control dead band and minimize system hysteresis.

It is typically wired in the manner Skyhighler provided the link to.

 

[Gray Wolf]

please forgive my ignorance... but what exactly is the point of using a solvent that is gaseous at STP? as an engineering student/chemistry minor, i could just never figure that one out. i understand why folks use it on the small scale, but not on a large one.

there are any number of suitable solvents... that are entirely liquid phase at STP, that would be far more convenient. Cyclohexane comes to mind right away, as its used widely with oilseeds.

so what gives? you guys seem to be using isobutane almost exclusively.
spare no details, i have a section 608 card with my name on it... so id like to think ive got the rudiments.
but feel free to snub/berate, as i suppose i am an interloper here. lol.

It is easy to extract with hexane, but getting rid of the hexane, while retaining the monoterpenes becomes an issue.

 

[queequeg152]

It is easy to extract with hexane, but getting rid of the hexane, while retaining the monoterpenes becomes an issue.

its certainly not as easy to strip cyclohexane, but i assure you its possible. cyclohexane is not terribly bad for you anyway = ).

again forgive my ignorance. Id be glad to read anything you could forward to myself... but regarding monoterpenes.

why can they not be extracted with a conventional STP liquid phased solvent?

isobutane is pretty much 100% non polar, and cyclohexane is the epitome of non polar lol.
so it would not seem to be a solubility issue? is it perhaps a temperature issue? though i seem to recall reading that you run the units up to 50 degrees c?

 

[Permacultuure]

He is saying that to purge hexane out, which is horrible for you, you would need high heat to assure it's a clean product. That high heat will boil off all your terps. I'd do a bit more research before extracting with such a gnarley solvent