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Mites in the rootzone
- Thread starter michigan.mmma
- Start date
ballplayer 2
Active member
Those are some great photos Michigan. I am sure these are the little son of a guns who have been devouring my roots. Once these little bastards get a foothold, their population explodes, at least they did in my containers. The soil looked like it was moving!!
I swear these came in a bag of soil from the hydro store. I won't name the brand because the contamination could have happened anywhere in the chain of supply.
So what is the best plan of action? Root drenches with safer soap, Azatrol/max, beneficial mites/nematodes, SNS. Clone clean and attack with the above mentioned protocol.
Hopefully we can get a positive ID from these pics. Looks pretty damn similar to the pic of bulb mites from page 1.
Thank you for all the help guys. Lord knows I need it at this point.
BP2
I swear these came in a bag of soil from the hydro store. I won't name the brand because the contamination could have happened anywhere in the chain of supply.
So what is the best plan of action? Root drenches with safer soap, Azatrol/max, beneficial mites/nematodes, SNS. Clone clean and attack with the above mentioned protocol.
Hopefully we can get a positive ID from these pics. Looks pretty damn similar to the pic of bulb mites from page 1.
Thank you for all the help guys. Lord knows I need it at this point.
BP2
Last edited:
Growing in dwc and I have those bugs as well. Heard nothing available to home gardeners is effective unless you use organophosphates, which is not good idea. If you can find someone in commercial op then have them get you Pylon. It's approved for food crops and it is not systemic. Also, experiments using it as drench with hot (assume 125F) water increases efficacy. Pylon is not an ovacide. Combining an ovacide such as Hexygon to the drench was about the best anyone’s has done. Unfortunately Hexygon is not approved for food crops and hard to get.
I am having had a root comeback by doing the following but still nervous:
1/2 oz / gallon 35% food grade H2O2 in solution. Topped with 1/4 oz / gallon per day for 3 days. Also, net pots were soaked to the stalk with H2O2 solution for about 30 minutes each before putting back on buckets. Poured H2O2 solution over top several times over 3 day period.
Imidacloprid drench. Used 3/4 oz 21% for 50 gallons. Added 1/4 strength nutes. Added until solution was to top of buckets also poured over top. Let stand with no air stone for 10 minutes. Then kept at that level for 3 hours. Decreased solution level to 1/2 of bucket. Replaced with fresh nute solution next day. Added sprayer to bucket and lowered nute solution to 1/4 to 1/3 depth of bucket. Sprayer mists top portion.
Added Roots Excellerator to fresh solution.
Best roots in a long time at this stage (2nd week 12/12).
Hypothesis:
H2O2 killed pathogens and the Roots Excellerator not only stimulated root growth but assuming Roots Excellerator has salicylic acid, has signaled to the plant that it was under attack. From what I am reading, the Imid did nothing other than offer future protection from other pests.
Next:
Thinking of doing a Pylon drench and Pylon hot drench test.
I am having had a root comeback by doing the following but still nervous:
1/2 oz / gallon 35% food grade H2O2 in solution. Topped with 1/4 oz / gallon per day for 3 days. Also, net pots were soaked to the stalk with H2O2 solution for about 30 minutes each before putting back on buckets. Poured H2O2 solution over top several times over 3 day period.
Imidacloprid drench. Used 3/4 oz 21% for 50 gallons. Added 1/4 strength nutes. Added until solution was to top of buckets also poured over top. Let stand with no air stone for 10 minutes. Then kept at that level for 3 hours. Decreased solution level to 1/2 of bucket. Replaced with fresh nute solution next day. Added sprayer to bucket and lowered nute solution to 1/4 to 1/3 depth of bucket. Sprayer mists top portion.
Added Roots Excellerator to fresh solution.
Best roots in a long time at this stage (2nd week 12/12).
Hypothesis:
H2O2 killed pathogens and the Roots Excellerator not only stimulated root growth but assuming Roots Excellerator has salicylic acid, has signaled to the plant that it was under attack. From what I am reading, the Imid did nothing other than offer future protection from other pests.
Next:
Thinking of doing a Pylon drench and Pylon hot drench test.
michigan.mmma
Member
Here is a good video of one moving around.
Here is a mite colony.
George, i tried to get some video of gnats to see if they had any hitchhikers onboard but i did not see any. Check here and here.
the mites in my pics and videos are on the outside of root pots. it is too hard for me to get a pic of them in the coco. there are no actual roots in these shots - those are all fibers from the pots - not roots.
there are more videos on the oil head account on youtube of gnats and mites also.
Here is a mite colony.
George, i tried to get some video of gnats to see if they had any hitchhikers onboard but i did not see any. Check here and here.
the mites in my pics and videos are on the outside of root pots. it is too hard for me to get a pic of them in the coco. there are no actual roots in these shots - those are all fibers from the pots - not roots.
there are more videos on the oil head account on youtube of gnats and mites also.
Thanks michigan.mmma and George for getting this out!
Looks exactly like mine. But don't have good camera to show em. I too had the same issues with plants looking the same and basically just stop growing toward the middle of fruiting. Been going on for about the past 9 months. And am in MI as well. WTF is going on around here, eh?
I've known these guys were around for a while (about 2 months) but thought they were basically harmless since no one at the shops knows much about anything, let alone a mite like this. They just want to sell you more shit. Since I too have had low yeilds and shitty looking plants I was starting to think these mites may be a problem. About 3 weeks ago noticed some soft brown roots in DWC And upon close inspection the mites were everywhere and decided to wage war. Last week I did the Imid drench thinking they were aphids, since that's what everyone will tell you. But as you know, they small and don't look like aphids. Sure look like adults have 4 sets of legs, not 3.
Well just inspected pots (in veg only) for about an hour and have found plenty on the net pots above the net openings and they're not moving, kinda dried out looking. These are in my starter room, which is a modified ebb n grow system. Basically removable net pots on top the 2 gallon buckets. They were right at and below the water mark when in the fill mode. It's like they came out of hydroton and climbed up and never made it back in. Wondering if the Imid killed some. Imid is not much of a miticide.
Another possibility:
These guys feed on fungus, algea, moss and decomposing matter like Oribatid Mites. Oribated mites look just like ours and they thrive in peat bogs. There are around 1200 species of Oribatid mites in north America alone!
Here's another correlation:
I have been putting Roots Oregonism and Humbolt Honey in my reservoir but have since went to a simple Fora GH and Roots Excelurator solution only. Maybe I was simply feeding these mites nice fungal diet and contributing to the rot with sugars. Thus building up they population to dangerous levels. Some researchers have noted Oribated Mites may eat the fine hairs of roots and/or cause damage allowing pathegons to enter, which they tehn eat. BTW comnercial nurseriers and green houses do not add carbs or bennies to the reservoirs. They prefer sterile solution and stabalized H2O2.
So what is causing our identical problems once we get into the fruiting stage?
My plants are doing the exact same thing. Look good in veg and then they have same issues at same times as yours. And we both have these bugs. Is it root rot? Is it the bugs? Is it a fungus or bacteria growing on the plant itself? I routinely spay with neem and serenade. And haven't seen anything mildewy or moldy.
This is driving me insane. On a positive note, plants in fruiting have awesome roots and are rocking! Will check later today for the mites and will post update.
Looks exactly like mine. But don't have good camera to show em. I too had the same issues with plants looking the same and basically just stop growing toward the middle of fruiting. Been going on for about the past 9 months. And am in MI as well. WTF is going on around here, eh?
I've known these guys were around for a while (about 2 months) but thought they were basically harmless since no one at the shops knows much about anything, let alone a mite like this. They just want to sell you more shit. Since I too have had low yeilds and shitty looking plants I was starting to think these mites may be a problem. About 3 weeks ago noticed some soft brown roots in DWC And upon close inspection the mites were everywhere and decided to wage war. Last week I did the Imid drench thinking they were aphids, since that's what everyone will tell you. But as you know, they small and don't look like aphids. Sure look like adults have 4 sets of legs, not 3.
Well just inspected pots (in veg only) for about an hour and have found plenty on the net pots above the net openings and they're not moving, kinda dried out looking. These are in my starter room, which is a modified ebb n grow system. Basically removable net pots on top the 2 gallon buckets. They were right at and below the water mark when in the fill mode. It's like they came out of hydroton and climbed up and never made it back in. Wondering if the Imid killed some. Imid is not much of a miticide.
Another possibility:
These guys feed on fungus, algea, moss and decomposing matter like Oribatid Mites. Oribated mites look just like ours and they thrive in peat bogs. There are around 1200 species of Oribatid mites in north America alone!
Here's another correlation:
I have been putting Roots Oregonism and Humbolt Honey in my reservoir but have since went to a simple Fora GH and Roots Excelurator solution only. Maybe I was simply feeding these mites nice fungal diet and contributing to the rot with sugars. Thus building up they population to dangerous levels. Some researchers have noted Oribated Mites may eat the fine hairs of roots and/or cause damage allowing pathegons to enter, which they tehn eat. BTW comnercial nurseriers and green houses do not add carbs or bennies to the reservoirs. They prefer sterile solution and stabalized H2O2.
So what is causing our identical problems once we get into the fruiting stage?
My plants are doing the exact same thing. Look good in veg and then they have same issues at same times as yours. And we both have these bugs. Is it root rot? Is it the bugs? Is it a fungus or bacteria growing on the plant itself? I routinely spay with neem and serenade. And haven't seen anything mildewy or moldy.
This is driving me insane. On a positive note, plants in fruiting have awesome roots and are rocking! Will check later today for the mites and will post update.
michigan.mmma
Member
medicalmj- you make some very good points about feeding these mites and contributing to their environment.
when i switched to DWC i did so to try to rule out the possibility of mites being present in the grow media right from the store. i had individual buckets and used lucas formula with GH nutes, some ph down, and chlorinated water only to keep it as simple as possible. i had some great looking plants in veg with this method but the mites still thrive in that environment unfortunately. i tested some plants using the regular dosing of IMID but it only seemed to knock them back a little then come back in greater numbers. when i thought they were root aphids i couldnt understand how they survived. some people questioned the application of IMID in DWC so i tried different methods including letting one plant go for 2 straight months in IMID solution and the mites still survived in that. FYI
you also mentioned feeding these mites and i think i may be doing that now. lately i have been trying compost teas and the problem seems to be as bad as i have ever seen it. on some older plants there are hundreds of these things walking around the saucers the pots are sitting in. i dont remember ever seeing so many and also the amount of gnats and larvae is ridiculous. there are dozens and dozens of gnat larvae on the outside of my root pots. and the tea and bennies i am adding are supposed to kill the gnat larvae....
since i thought these were RA's for the longest time, i have treated them with just about everything made for RA's and although some products would knock them down for a while or reduce their numbers a bit, they always came back in large numbers.
when i switched to DWC i did so to try to rule out the possibility of mites being present in the grow media right from the store. i had individual buckets and used lucas formula with GH nutes, some ph down, and chlorinated water only to keep it as simple as possible. i had some great looking plants in veg with this method but the mites still thrive in that environment unfortunately. i tested some plants using the regular dosing of IMID but it only seemed to knock them back a little then come back in greater numbers. when i thought they were root aphids i couldnt understand how they survived. some people questioned the application of IMID in DWC so i tried different methods including letting one plant go for 2 straight months in IMID solution and the mites still survived in that. FYI
you also mentioned feeding these mites and i think i may be doing that now. lately i have been trying compost teas and the problem seems to be as bad as i have ever seen it. on some older plants there are hundreds of these things walking around the saucers the pots are sitting in. i dont remember ever seeing so many and also the amount of gnats and larvae is ridiculous. there are dozens and dozens of gnat larvae on the outside of my root pots. and the tea and bennies i am adding are supposed to kill the gnat larvae....
since i thought these were RA's for the longest time, i have treated them with just about everything made for RA's and although some products would knock them down for a while or reduce their numbers a bit, they always came back in large numbers.
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michigan.mmma
Member
michigan.mmma
Member
im not sure if this is true but some people said they had peppers that were not affected by these mites. i had some peppers growing along with the peas & cucumbers above that also had mites for sure. it looked ok but there was definitely something wrong with it. but it was the best looking of all the veggies i was growing.
i trashed all the veggies except the peppers and i put them outside. a couple weeks later and they look great. the root pots do not have all the funk on the side that my other plants do in the grow rooms. the pots are not covered with gnat larvae on the outside and i dont see any deficiencies. i will get my loupe and see if i can find any mites but the plant is looking pretty good. definitely better than it did in my veg room.
EDIT: i just got home from work and checked the pepper that is outside. i cannot find one gnat or larva or mite anywhere on it. i know for sure they were there when it was indoors. hopefully the smart people can make some sense of this info.
i trashed all the veggies except the peppers and i put them outside. a couple weeks later and they look great. the root pots do not have all the funk on the side that my other plants do in the grow rooms. the pots are not covered with gnat larvae on the outside and i dont see any deficiencies. i will get my loupe and see if i can find any mites but the plant is looking pretty good. definitely better than it did in my veg room.
EDIT: i just got home from work and checked the pepper that is outside. i cannot find one gnat or larva or mite anywhere on it. i know for sure they were there when it was indoors. hopefully the smart people can make some sense of this info.
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Update: Did a Pylon phytotoxicty drench test last nite. Looks good so far.
Checked DWC (2 weeks on 12/12) and still looks better than it has in a lomg time but there are a couple roots with brown decay that cropped up. On closer inspection I found several mites on the brown roots. Didn't notice them on the bright white roots. I am going to soak each net pot in 1/2 strenght nutes and 1/2 oz per gallon H2O2. I'll fill up a 5 gallon bucket and let them sit for about 1/2 hour. I think I will run Physan 20 or bleach through the system when the plants are soaking in the other buckets. Then new nutes. I am also considering running H2O2 instead of the Roots Excelurator until finished.
Beginning to wonder about adding bennies and sugars to hydro. While I amy be conflating the causation, it's starting to look like that's what has allowed this probelm to get out of hand. Also, none of the commercial growers use either in hydro. Rather, they use H2O2 and all synthetic nutes. No organics and none of the crap the grow stores are pushing. I am begining to think they're all a bunch of snake oil salesman or just don't know what they're talking about.
On indoor problems you're having:
Perhaps the lack of natural predators in your confined space is a factor. Also, fungus gnats can cause great losses at the population levels you describe. And they are a vector for pathogens like Pythium. I had fungus gnats get out of control and that is when my problems were the worst. Intersetingly, that's when I first noticed the mites. An blamed the mites, not the gnats. So, this makes me wonder, did the fungus gnats cause the rot, which then the mites feed on? Not saying I know the answer but...
BTW - Pretty sure I have totally eliminated gnats. I took each net pot and soaked in Aza for 20 minutes so that the solution was up the stem. Used an old boiling pot that holds 1 1/2 gallon that they fit in. Five gallons of Aza solution is $$$. I used .8 oz per gallon with 1/2 strength nutes and PHed. Did this every 7 days for 2 months. Gnat larvae can not build resistance so no need to change mode of action. But throwing in a neonicitinoid drench will really end the cycle and it's cheap. Since you shouldn't use after a couple weeeks into flower, I'll be doing a Aza drench every 2-3 weeks at this point. I keep yellow cards to monitor and haven't caught a flier in a couple weeks. As soon as I do I will start a 7-10 day Aza drench cycle.
Inconclusion, I'd go to war on those gnats!
Checked DWC (2 weeks on 12/12) and still looks better than it has in a lomg time but there are a couple roots with brown decay that cropped up. On closer inspection I found several mites on the brown roots. Didn't notice them on the bright white roots. I am going to soak each net pot in 1/2 strenght nutes and 1/2 oz per gallon H2O2. I'll fill up a 5 gallon bucket and let them sit for about 1/2 hour. I think I will run Physan 20 or bleach through the system when the plants are soaking in the other buckets. Then new nutes. I am also considering running H2O2 instead of the Roots Excelurator until finished.
Beginning to wonder about adding bennies and sugars to hydro. While I amy be conflating the causation, it's starting to look like that's what has allowed this probelm to get out of hand. Also, none of the commercial growers use either in hydro. Rather, they use H2O2 and all synthetic nutes. No organics and none of the crap the grow stores are pushing. I am begining to think they're all a bunch of snake oil salesman or just don't know what they're talking about.
On indoor problems you're having:
Perhaps the lack of natural predators in your confined space is a factor. Also, fungus gnats can cause great losses at the population levels you describe. And they are a vector for pathogens like Pythium. I had fungus gnats get out of control and that is when my problems were the worst. Intersetingly, that's when I first noticed the mites. An blamed the mites, not the gnats. So, this makes me wonder, did the fungus gnats cause the rot, which then the mites feed on? Not saying I know the answer but...
BTW - Pretty sure I have totally eliminated gnats. I took each net pot and soaked in Aza for 20 minutes so that the solution was up the stem. Used an old boiling pot that holds 1 1/2 gallon that they fit in. Five gallons of Aza solution is $$$. I used .8 oz per gallon with 1/2 strength nutes and PHed. Did this every 7 days for 2 months. Gnat larvae can not build resistance so no need to change mode of action. But throwing in a neonicitinoid drench will really end the cycle and it's cheap. Since you shouldn't use after a couple weeeks into flower, I'll be doing a Aza drench every 2-3 weeks at this point. I keep yellow cards to monitor and haven't caught a flier in a couple weeks. As soon as I do I will start a 7-10 day Aza drench cycle.
Inconclusion, I'd go to war on those gnats!
the immages in these pics are surely from overfert imo....i could name the different defs i see on each leaf, but the general look of them is lockout due to over fert....
ive had this happen before from gnat larvea eating the roots, then the plants can no longer take in the nutes they were able to take in before...resulting in lockout
Corvette Doc
Member
I seem to have the same little buggers my-self and am a long way away from you other guys here in the great Rocky Mountains.
I have found a couple of regular spider mites but VERY VERY few of them and at times the littler mites are so numerous it makes your skin crawl just looking at them. I have noticed that they seem to vary in color slightly from what they are eating and seem to even eat the rust from the surface of the cages i have around my plants making them reddish-brown while the exact same bug next to it will get slightly green from eating on the leaf. You can see the abdomen area fill with fluid matching the color of what they eat. VERY strange. I am amazed at how much these resemble reptile mites in their shape and changing color with what they eat. Reptile mites are also white (and look EXACTLY like these) when they are first hatched and quickly turn dark brown to black after feeding on blood.
I was stunned when over night they started making webs even faster and more dense than spider mites usually do.
My problem is that i am growing in an out-door (mostly) green-house with soil. Are there any GOOD options to get these at least controlled in a soil grow? I am facing a very bad crop this year because of them. The temps here being basically around 100 degrees almost every day since the end of May has caused the numbers of every type of bug around to explode this year. These mites seem to love that heat as well.
Azatrol has knocked down the numbers a little but they will come back fast after only 3 days between spraying. I am going to go find pyrethrin flea collars for each plant (they work great by taping a piece on the top of snake cages for reptile mites) to see what that does while i wait till other ideas come in and i can order any pesticide that might work. There are almost no options for buying much of anything like these pestacides locally.
I can only afford to buy one since the costs of this stuff are so high so what will give me the best possible defense? I could really use that peice of if information QUICK. I am going to try to add safer soap also as soon as i find some since it is fairly cheap.
Thank-you guys for posting all of this info...everyone thought i was full of it when i tried to describe these little buggers.
Is there a way to treat the soil (about 300 gallons of it, 6 45gal. smart pots) before planting to insure that they are all dead and the soil is clean? Is there anything i should put on top of the soil between plants to stop the spred?
I have found a couple of regular spider mites but VERY VERY few of them and at times the littler mites are so numerous it makes your skin crawl just looking at them. I have noticed that they seem to vary in color slightly from what they are eating and seem to even eat the rust from the surface of the cages i have around my plants making them reddish-brown while the exact same bug next to it will get slightly green from eating on the leaf. You can see the abdomen area fill with fluid matching the color of what they eat. VERY strange. I am amazed at how much these resemble reptile mites in their shape and changing color with what they eat. Reptile mites are also white (and look EXACTLY like these) when they are first hatched and quickly turn dark brown to black after feeding on blood.
I was stunned when over night they started making webs even faster and more dense than spider mites usually do.
My problem is that i am growing in an out-door (mostly) green-house with soil. Are there any GOOD options to get these at least controlled in a soil grow? I am facing a very bad crop this year because of them. The temps here being basically around 100 degrees almost every day since the end of May has caused the numbers of every type of bug around to explode this year. These mites seem to love that heat as well.
Azatrol has knocked down the numbers a little but they will come back fast after only 3 days between spraying. I am going to go find pyrethrin flea collars for each plant (they work great by taping a piece on the top of snake cages for reptile mites) to see what that does while i wait till other ideas come in and i can order any pesticide that might work. There are almost no options for buying much of anything like these pestacides locally.
I can only afford to buy one since the costs of this stuff are so high so what will give me the best possible defense? I could really use that peice of if information QUICK. I am going to try to add safer soap also as soon as i find some since it is fairly cheap.
Thank-you guys for posting all of this info...everyone thought i was full of it when i tried to describe these little buggers.
Is there a way to treat the soil (about 300 gallons of it, 6 45gal. smart pots) before planting to insure that they are all dead and the soil is clean? Is there anything i should put on top of the soil between plants to stop the spred?
Sounds like spider mites. We got some kind of soil mite and they don't live on plant or spin webs. You’ll need to do apps every 3-5 days for a while since they'll hatch in about three and all the listed are not ovacides, which are nasty and not easily available. You really need at least 2 modes of action or you'll only make matters worse by building up resistance.
Before or at start of flower get:
Imidacloprid (as a drench only) - Bayer advanced for fruit citrus and veggie - systemic so 45 days out
Neem - non toxic but may leave residue so avoid getting on flowers. Must use soap or surfactant
Pyrethrum - or Permethrin if not in flower
Spinosad - could be bad for bees
I'd avoid getting any of the above directly on big flowers
If you've got nice flowers it'll cost ya but I've beat em with:
Essential Oils - SNS 217 or Zero tolerance
Mighty Wash - This stuff is awesome, just DO NOT Add water!
I'd give flowers a nice wash before harvest after using these...
Read labels carefully and good luck. If they're Spider Mites you can control
And to treat soil you can place in full sun wrapped in black poly for a few days. It'll kill everything so use ewc tea after.
Before or at start of flower get:
Imidacloprid (as a drench only) - Bayer advanced for fruit citrus and veggie - systemic so 45 days out
Neem - non toxic but may leave residue so avoid getting on flowers. Must use soap or surfactant
Pyrethrum - or Permethrin if not in flower
Spinosad - could be bad for bees
I'd avoid getting any of the above directly on big flowers
If you've got nice flowers it'll cost ya but I've beat em with:
Essential Oils - SNS 217 or Zero tolerance
Mighty Wash - This stuff is awesome, just DO NOT Add water!
I'd give flowers a nice wash before harvest after using these...
Read labels carefully and good luck. If they're Spider Mites you can control
And to treat soil you can place in full sun wrapped in black poly for a few days. It'll kill everything so use ewc tea after.
Corvette Doc
Member
I do have a few spider mites as well (Colorado is saturated with them) but i also have the exact same thing as i am seeing in the pics and vids posted in this thread. I even saw one spider mite with 3 of these littler ones hitching a ride last week (dopey me thought they were babies LOL). I think that might be how they are transporting up into the tops of my plants. I had one clone turn up covered in webs one morning when there was no sign of them just about 8 hours before when i watered. My lights are off from 3pm till 8pm so they did this in full light. I searched that clone for over an hour and only saw these little mites on it, not one spider mite. I only started a couple of clones trying to learn how to do it. I started them in peat disks and checked them several times a week with a 16x photo negative/proof loupe never seeing ANYTHING on them. After 24 days the roots started showing through the nets so i planted them if FF Ocean Forest, 8 days later i wake up to that sight.
My problem started about a week before taking the cuttings so i washed the cuttings with ivory soap & water along with a spritz of bird cage mite spray before making the last cut and putting in clone gell. They infested one of my outdoor 6 completely and after hitting it with the cage spray i noticed a few of the stems swell up near the flowers that were just starting. I thought the swelling was a reaction to the spray untill reading this thread yesterday. When i sliced one swollen stem open last night i found a few of these suckers were living inside the stem's pith. I seriously doubt that spider mites ever do that. The cage spray has been my secret weapon for spider mites for years on house plants.
An ex girlfriend told me today that they quit making the flea collars i was looking for so i am going to try another one that the Herpetology sites recommend. The gas from these settles in aquariums so i am hoping my green-house is calm enough to contain it. She also recommended trying citronella candles so i got one to try in the clone box since i should be able to see changes there a lot easier. Don't expect it to work but you never know till you try. This is only temporary experiments untill i can get something good picked, ordered, and delivered.
I was looking at Hexygon or floramite since those are the only 2 i have found an on-line source for, but i can only afford one...Which one?
I am VERY deep into flowering and after how nasty everything tasted last year NEEM oil is never being allowed near my plants again. The bird cage spray has pyrethrins as active ingredients so i have tried that with some slowing but not getting rid of them. There have been no new webs on the outside plant since starting to spray the azatrol every 2-3 days but the bugs are not dying and i started spraying that once a week from the first day i transplanted outdoors long before these popped up...i think. I will start looking for sources of Essential Oils and Mighty Wash tonight.
My problem started about a week before taking the cuttings so i washed the cuttings with ivory soap & water along with a spritz of bird cage mite spray before making the last cut and putting in clone gell. They infested one of my outdoor 6 completely and after hitting it with the cage spray i noticed a few of the stems swell up near the flowers that were just starting. I thought the swelling was a reaction to the spray untill reading this thread yesterday. When i sliced one swollen stem open last night i found a few of these suckers were living inside the stem's pith. I seriously doubt that spider mites ever do that. The cage spray has been my secret weapon for spider mites for years on house plants.
An ex girlfriend told me today that they quit making the flea collars i was looking for so i am going to try another one that the Herpetology sites recommend. The gas from these settles in aquariums so i am hoping my green-house is calm enough to contain it. She also recommended trying citronella candles so i got one to try in the clone box since i should be able to see changes there a lot easier. Don't expect it to work but you never know till you try. This is only temporary experiments untill i can get something good picked, ordered, and delivered.
I was looking at Hexygon or floramite since those are the only 2 i have found an on-line source for, but i can only afford one...Which one?
I am VERY deep into flowering and after how nasty everything tasted last year NEEM oil is never being allowed near my plants again. The bird cage spray has pyrethrins as active ingredients so i have tried that with some slowing but not getting rid of them. There have been no new webs on the outside plant since starting to spray the azatrol every 2-3 days but the bugs are not dying and i started spraying that once a week from the first day i transplanted outdoors long before these popped up...i think. I will start looking for sources of Essential Oils and Mighty Wash tonight.
Corvette Doc
Member
I tried to find a camera i could borrow to get some pics of the mites them-selves but i don't know any-one who has one. here are a couple of pics of the plant i am having the most trouble with...i was going to cut it down untill i saw that the buggers are on all of them. There are 3 lifesaver indica doms, 2 wheelchair kush and the one in trouble is a jha kush (sp?). So maybe that strain is just more susceptible to this infestation??? I feed with maxsea 16-16-16 untill a couple of weeks after flipping to normal sun light times (i use several CFLs to extend light time untill July 4th) then switch to maxibloom and molasses in low dose with every watering. My soil is a mix of ocean forest and happy frog with dolomite and a couple of other things that shouldn't matter.
The top half of this plant is doing fair but the lower half looks like it will die before the end of the day but doesn't.
If you look at the second pic you can see how the stems just below the bud sites have swollen up...ignore the 45 degree bend that was my getting too rough on trying to get that branch back into the cage. This swelling is only happening on the branches from the bottom third of the plant. The buds have completely quit growing above these swellings and the leaves seem to be confused as to what direction is up around the swellings as well. The fan leaves near the bottom are like parchment paper but do not completely dry out like when they die off so i think they are still alive if just barely. The top half of the plant is budding close to normal but slightly slower than i am use to.
Several of the plants are doing something i have never seen outside of Bonsai circles. Some of the roots are actually growing right on top of the soil and turning green. I dug a couple of small test holes near the main stems and found the roots are turning into small clusters that have nodules (like a potato does) about the size of a 22 pellet that are covered in these smaller mites. The inside of these branch swellings have some mites INSIDE of them as well.
I have been spraying azatrol once a week since i got the clones in April and bumped it up to every 2-3 days since i started seeing this several weeks ago. This week i have tried a Dr.Doom Bomb, Bayer advanced, and my bird cage spray (actually for over a week every other day on the cage spray) these were all i could find local. I ordered safer soap and floramite and hope they will be here in a few more days. I forgot that put sevin dust on the one plant and all around the Green-House as well as Melathion on the ground around the greenhouse.
Yesterday a friend sent his kid over since she works for the CU Extension office here. She said that it would be very hard to tell what these are exactly with-out doing a full genetic testing...VERY expensive. But she is also pretty sure my main problem isn't the normal spider mites. She thinks she saw as many as 5 different types of mites while searching my plants! There are many types of spider mites that arise in this area but there are twice as many other types of mites as well...I never knew about that till yesterday. She isn't allowed to work on MMJ grows by the State Education Rules so she can't do a lot to help me beyond looking and trying to do research on the sly. She will get back to me later in the week if she finds anything but said that the Floramite was the best option at this point (thus i ordered it yesterday). She asked me to keep some record on the citronella if i can since she heard of a research going on up north that she wanted to compare to. She is thinking of trying to get a couple of special traps to try and sneak them in for testing but doesn't know if she can yet...i am hoping she can.
I am less certain now that i have the same thing as you guys now since she talked with me but think what i learn on this quest might be helpful to those that are better versed than i in growing. There may be too many types out there to ever be certain.
I scrapped the clones and am cleaning the living #@!! out of everything in there.
The top half of this plant is doing fair but the lower half looks like it will die before the end of the day but doesn't.
If you look at the second pic you can see how the stems just below the bud sites have swollen up...ignore the 45 degree bend that was my getting too rough on trying to get that branch back into the cage. This swelling is only happening on the branches from the bottom third of the plant. The buds have completely quit growing above these swellings and the leaves seem to be confused as to what direction is up around the swellings as well. The fan leaves near the bottom are like parchment paper but do not completely dry out like when they die off so i think they are still alive if just barely. The top half of the plant is budding close to normal but slightly slower than i am use to.
Several of the plants are doing something i have never seen outside of Bonsai circles. Some of the roots are actually growing right on top of the soil and turning green. I dug a couple of small test holes near the main stems and found the roots are turning into small clusters that have nodules (like a potato does) about the size of a 22 pellet that are covered in these smaller mites. The inside of these branch swellings have some mites INSIDE of them as well.
I have been spraying azatrol once a week since i got the clones in April and bumped it up to every 2-3 days since i started seeing this several weeks ago. This week i have tried a Dr.Doom Bomb, Bayer advanced, and my bird cage spray (actually for over a week every other day on the cage spray) these were all i could find local. I ordered safer soap and floramite and hope they will be here in a few more days. I forgot that put sevin dust on the one plant and all around the Green-House as well as Melathion on the ground around the greenhouse.
Yesterday a friend sent his kid over since she works for the CU Extension office here. She said that it would be very hard to tell what these are exactly with-out doing a full genetic testing...VERY expensive. But she is also pretty sure my main problem isn't the normal spider mites. She thinks she saw as many as 5 different types of mites while searching my plants! There are many types of spider mites that arise in this area but there are twice as many other types of mites as well...I never knew about that till yesterday. She isn't allowed to work on MMJ grows by the State Education Rules so she can't do a lot to help me beyond looking and trying to do research on the sly. She will get back to me later in the week if she finds anything but said that the Floramite was the best option at this point (thus i ordered it yesterday). She asked me to keep some record on the citronella if i can since she heard of a research going on up north that she wanted to compare to. She is thinking of trying to get a couple of special traps to try and sneak them in for testing but doesn't know if she can yet...i am hoping she can.
I am less certain now that i have the same thing as you guys now since she talked with me but think what i learn on this quest might be helpful to those that are better versed than i in growing. There may be too many types out there to ever be certain.
I scrapped the clones and am cleaning the living #@!! out of everything in there.
Corvette - I feel your pain! Unfortunetly you might have more than mites to contend with. The nodules sound like root knot nematodes. Chems don't work well. Hot water dunks works well for commercial growers. But you might have good luck with predator nematodes. About 20 bucks per million. Couple apps might do it.
And concerning mites, if you were to dig up a sq meter of soil from a healthy forest you could easily have 200 species of mites! They're nearly all good for that enviroment as they are decomposers. How they react in pots or greenhouses is a mystery to most. Root mites may simply be a sign of decaying matter. The mites may even be predators eating the nematodes. Nematodes as well as fungus gnats can cause roots to rot.
If you get a microscope and cut open the roots you should be able to see these nematodes. Research these little effers.
I just discovered a small worm like creature, not a gnat, that is about 1 - 3 ml long that was coming out of the tip of a root in a small patch of brown on my roots. Took a 30x loop to see, and there were more slithering around the roots. They look just like a root hair. Seems the mites then feed on the dead roots.
I have a plan to eliminate, whicjh includes hot water dunks right after taking cutting and before dipping in clone solution. New dome and start them in diff area. Then I'm going to clean the area with all kinds of nasty stuff. I got a respirator.
KeepItPushin
Member
I also have a root mite situation in my garden, however my mites have at least two (maybe 3) different life stages. The adults are flyers that resemble fungus gnats, but they have a different flight pattern. They seem to hoover with intention and prefer to walk or crawl as much as they like to fly.
I don't mean to stray from MI's case, but I'm just curious if anyone else has a 'root mite' with a flyer stage. So far there has been no mention of mites with flyers in this thread. If anyone has interest in identifying this species let me know and I can post pics.
They don't do the same kind of damage as mentioned here, but they do cause lower leaves to brown and curl and become brittle identical to the pictures shown. I usually just pluck off all the dying parts but the lower necrosis continues into flower, so I just keep plucking.
I have tried all the above mentioned insecticides and the only one that works every time is pyrethrum. Imid has no effect. I have stopped using pyrethrum because I'm moving towards more organic controls, and also because there's a worldwide shortage of chrysanthemum at the moment.
If this is not the place, I can start a new thread, but I've been looking for quite some time here and this is the closest thread I've found to a discussion bordering my situation.
I don't mean to stray from MI's case, but I'm just curious if anyone else has a 'root mite' with a flyer stage. So far there has been no mention of mites with flyers in this thread. If anyone has interest in identifying this species let me know and I can post pics.
They don't do the same kind of damage as mentioned here, but they do cause lower leaves to brown and curl and become brittle identical to the pictures shown. I usually just pluck off all the dying parts but the lower necrosis continues into flower, so I just keep plucking.
I have tried all the above mentioned insecticides and the only one that works every time is pyrethrum. Imid has no effect. I have stopped using pyrethrum because I'm moving towards more organic controls, and also because there's a worldwide shortage of chrysanthemum at the moment.
If this is not the place, I can start a new thread, but I've been looking for quite some time here and this is the closest thread I've found to a discussion bordering my situation.
michigan.mmma
Member
you may have mites in the rootzone but i dont think they are also the fliers you are seeing. mites should be egg, larva, nymph and adult but i have never seen a flyer.
you may have the mites and also aphids. lets see some pics
you may have the mites and also aphids. lets see some pics
KeepItPushin
Member
No disrespect to everyone on here who keeps saying mites are aphids, but I am positive my mites are NOT aphids. And YES, the adults ARE flyers. I've been watching and studying them for almost two years now, and I can say with 1000% certainty that some of these buggers hatch into flyers. I will post pics in a few days as I'm working on getting high res images from a confocal microscope 
They DON'T look like your mites MI, but they are definitely a species of mite and they definitely grow to be flyers. I'm fully expecting no one to have heard of these and am also expecting a ton of WRONG diagnoses. Let me state it very clearly: they are not aphids, nor fungus gnats. And yes, the mites and the flyers are the same species. I'm positive.
They DON'T look like your mites MI, but they are definitely a species of mite and they definitely grow to be flyers. I'm fully expecting no one to have heard of these and am also expecting a ton of WRONG diagnoses. Let me state it very clearly: they are not aphids, nor fungus gnats. And yes, the mites and the flyers are the same species. I'm positive.
michigan.mmma
Member
Sorry. I suggested aphid because the flying pattern and similarity to fungus gnats.
Post the pics of the flying mite when u get a chance. I want to see what this thing looks like.
Post the pics of the flying mite when u get a chance. I want to see what this thing looks like.
michigan.mmma
Member
