Milo Yiannopoulos....What an interesting person.

[packerfan79]

modern american libertarianism is just another big business ploy. look into it's roots. it's john birchers and ayn randian nutjobs and austrian economists who were funded by big money.
the koch family founded the john birch society and the cato institute for instance and here is their original 1980 libertarian platform.
notice the languange in the libertarian platform today is different compared to the 1980 platform because if they were still using the same language no one would even consider them as a viable option, they'd be called what they are. hint: starts with an f





"It's way past time to get this out of control government under the control of the people, not the other way around."

you got this part right though.


but how does opening the markets to laissez-faire capitalism in the time of rampant corruption, fraud, and oligarchy going to solve anything? all that'd be doing is handing the people who are fucking every one over the keys to the castle.
we'd be turning the US into a science fiction movie like Equilibrium or the one with Matt Damon where the elites live on an artificial thing that orbits the Earth.


american libertarianism and anarcho capitalism (ancap) is just as stupid as communism. none of it is practical.

Well cannavore, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I am a capitalist through and through. Get the government out of everything. Government should handle national security, police, fire and infrastructure. As for the rest of it they can suck an egg.

You have confused capitalism with, government sponsored corrupt capitalism. Let the market work and the best will rise. I don't understand how us growers who make a living selling a product, can be anti capitalism.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

That's another trick we should be getting wise to, they pretend that it makes a difference which party you vote for, when all that changes is the narrative, when it comes to war, both parties are all for it. They might some times have different enemies, but none of them ever seem to want a world at peace or at least a world not being attacked by the US some where or other. they both seem to agree that most of the money needs to go to the interest on the national debt and the rest for the military. then if some thing is left maybe fix some roads and bridges.

The police nearly finances it's self with all the stealing and running prisons for profit and of course the fines, hospitals are not free, education isn't free either, so what exactly are people getting for the huge amount of money they pay in taxes every year?

Ahh yes, the social security programs, that's another big chunk I wasn't thinking about. still, wasting so much on 180 military bases spread around the world so the share holders in the military industrial complex can get even richer seems idiotic and not in the interest of the masses.

Does the US really need to spend 10 times more than the next biggest spender China, to stay safe? It seems ridiculous to waste that much of the nations resources on the military, unless you really want to enslave the rest of the planet?

Post tidied up (punctuation/grammar/spelling)...And I totally agree with it!

 

[dragongrower]

Well cannavore, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I am a capitalist through and through. Get the government out of everything. Government should handle national security, police, fire and infrastructure. As for the rest of it they can suck an egg.

You have confused capitalism with, government sponsored corrupt capitalism. Let the market work and the best will rise. I don't understand how us growers who make a living selling a product, can be anti capitalism.

And look were pure capitalism has brought us..

 

[ronbo51]

QUOTE=dragongrower;8140838]And look were pure capitalism has brought us..[/QUOTE]

This is perhaps the most ignorant post in this entire thread. I blame the Education Oligarchy, which has hijacked almost all education and turned it into indoctrination in a successful attempt to brainwash everyone to believe that Government knows better, has altruistic intentions , and will protect you and make you whole.

It is Government that spends deliriously on the MIC, conjuring up enemies and bogeymen out of thin air. It is Government that writes laws favoring big business, squeezing more and more out of Main Street using zoning, fees, regulations, labor laws, insurance, utility rates, taxes upon taxes. Just try and get a commercial lease and open a small business and follow your dream. You will be crushed. Only well capitalized politically connected will get a dispensary license. Or open a sandwich shop, with all the safety and health requirements, inspections, equipment costs, insurance, rent, taxes. It's to the point where Government officials drive around looking for lemonade stands run by little girls so they can shut them down and hopefully levy some fines and generate some revenue. Hell maybe even do some asset forfeiture on your sorry asses.

It is Government that has enacted the Deep State surveillance apparatus that monitors your every word, movement, every dollar that you make , and where it is spent. It is Government that hires goons to stop you on the street, demands your papers, and has license to shoot you, or your kids, or your dog, because they feel like it.

It is Government that has debased our money, driving down living standards for decades, backfilling the hole with ever more debt that WE have to repay WITH interest attatched. All the while the Government itself, as well as its preferred crony insider class has access to ZERO percent credit to buy real things, driving up the costs to us out here on the street.

I would like to go on but I have to go to work for the privilege of paying close to half my income to pay for the State, which you obviously adore and wish to make bigger. I don't get it. Pot growers embracing the entity that will imprison and make you destitute.

In a few more years the penalties for growing non compliant weed in a "legal" state will be worse than in my illegal state. There's your Government right there. Lunacy.

 

[packerfan79]

And look were pure capitalism has brought us..

Capitalism has raised the standard of living for billions of people. Without capitalism you wouldn't have the computer, iPhone, car, flat screen tv, internet. people don't innovate, when the government confiscated and redisributes the product of your labor. People don't work hard, when you get no reward for it. Besides it's truly immoral to steal the product of my work.

If you want socialism, let me know next time you harvest. I will come take it and give it to people, who didn't take the risk or put the effort into it. Then you will be a good little socialist.

 

[dragongrower]

Hahaha you guys crack me up!!

 

[pinkus]

Social security and Medicare are both socialist programs, and among the most cherished American institutions. Y'all have your work cut out for you.

 

[Cannavore]

Well cannavore, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I am a capitalist through and through. Get the government out of everything. Government should handle national security, police, fire and infrastructure. As for the rest of it they can suck an egg.

You have confused capitalism with, government sponsored corrupt capitalism. Let the market work and the best will rise. I don't understand how us growers who make a living selling a product, can be anti capitalism.

Point to a time in American history where the free market worked without government intervention that isn't named the gilded age.

Who do you think sponsors the "govt sponsored corrupt capitalism?" ....... the capitalists lol. I love how libertarians think all will be fine and dandy once you free the shackles of government from the altruistic capitalist. Again its a pipe dream no different than the people who think communism can work.

 

[armedoldhippy]

pure capitalism only works as a second job. farmers selling produce from home, smoking hams to sell at farmers markets etc. make "too much" money at it & the tax man WILL come around. he aint gonna "suggest" nor "ask nicely" either. know a couple of old boys that raise livestock (beef, hogs & sheep), have never sold a head. they butcher it themselves & trade for what they want/need...DAMN fine sausage...

 

[IntotheGreen]

This whole discussion is indicative of one of the major problems with human thinking. As a species we love to classify things and define them as either this or that. It's an innate strategy for processing information and we are really, really good at it. Unfortunately, the utility of this method breaks down when you move beyond simple differentiation and attempt to apply it to complex, higher-order systems, or when a simple binary distinction fails to adequately describe a data set.

This is why no single "-ism" will ever be sufficient as the Alpha and Omega of a functional society. Is capitalism an important cornerstone of a liberal democracy? Of course. But is an unfettered, profits-over-all-else economic Darwinism built on greed as the supreme utilitarian virtue a sustainable model? Are some socialistic policies such as Social Security, programs to assist the poor, etc. beneficial to the overall health of the nation? Of course. Is a 100% socialist/Communist government antithetical to our shared ideal of individual liberty? Again, of course it is. The reality is that binary, ideological purism is great for soapbox proselytizing and feeling superior, but it fails every time in real life. The "free market is god" Gordon Gecko crowd and the Outback Steakhouse libertarians ("No rules, just right") just aren't living in the real world. Sure, capitalism, ambition, and innovation are important driving forces of progress and prosperity, but I bet most of you want clean drinking water and fair banking practices as well. Data shows that providing some level of social safety net and public education benefits society as a whole by reducing poverty, crime, healthcare costs, etc., but most people probably stop short of wanting to show up to your Government-chosen job and waiting for your weekly ration of bread and gruel.

The American society as set up in the Constitution is necessarily a blend of several different philosophies. It cannot be achieved nor maintained by adherence to a single -ism, be it capitalism, socialism, Libertarianism or Rastafarianism. Everyone wants the freedom to do what they want and make money. Well, in order to live in a society where that is possible you must accept a certain social contract. Laws, regulations, taxes, and the fact that everyone gets to say their piece as well are the costs of living in that society. You like roads to drive on, police and firemen to protect you? Those things take money. You want to not have to wear a mask to breathe when you're outside? Emissions regulations on industry is the price. Don't like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs crashing the world economy by ripping off consumers and then giving themselves $30 million bonuses? Better have some banking regulations to put checks on unrestrained capitalism.

Anyone who is arguing from the high-horse of ideological purity is simply not having a practical discussion. You're not living in the real world and you're not helping.

 

[Cannavore]

This is perhaps the most ignorant post in this entire thread. I blame the Education Oligarchy, which has hijacked almost all education and turned it into indoctrination in a successful attempt to brainwash everyone to believe that Government knows better, has altruistic intentions , and will protect you and make you whole.

It is Government that spends deliriously on the MIC, conjuring up enemies and bogeymen out of thin air. It is Government that writes laws favoring big business, squeezing more and more out of Main Street using zoning, fees, regulations, labor laws, insurance, utility rates, taxes upon taxes. Just try and get a commercial lease and open a small business and follow your dream. You will be crushed. Only well capitalized politically connected will get a dispensary license. Or open a sandwich shop, with all the safety and health requirements, inspections, equipment costs, insurance, rent, taxes. It's to the point where Government officials drive around looking for lemonade stands run by little girls so they can shut them down and hopefully levy some fines and generate some revenue. Hell maybe even do some asset forfeiture on your sorry asses.

It is Government that has enacted the Deep State surveillance apparatus that monitors your every word, movement, every dollar that you make , and where it is spent. It is Government that hires goons to stop you on the street, demands your papers, and has license to shoot you, or your kids, or your dog, because they feel like it.

It is Government that has debased our money, driving down living standards for decades, backfilling the hole with ever more debt that WE have to repay WITH interest attatched. All the while the Government itself, as well as its preferred crony insider class has access to ZERO percent credit to buy real things, driving up the costs to us out here on the street.

I would like to go on but I have to go to work for the privilege of paying close to half my income to pay for the State, which you obviously adore and wish to make bigger. I don't get it. Pot growers embracing the entity that will imprison and make you destitute.

In a few more years the penalties for growing non compliant weed in a "legal" state will be worse than in my illegal state. There's your Government right there. Lunacy.

and who owns the government? "capitalists"

 

[Cannavore]

i wonder if the infowarriors in here know that modern american libertarianism was backed by the Rockefellers

 

[Cannavore]

And look were pure capitalism has brought us..

they'll argue it wasn't pure enough hahaha

 

[packerfan79]

Point to a time in American history where the free market worked without government intervention that isn't named the gilded age.

Who do you think sponsors the "govt sponsored corrupt capitalism?" ....... the capitalists lol. I love how libertarians think all will be fine and dandy once you free the shackles of government from the altruistic capitalist. Again its a pipe dream no different than the people who think communism can work.

The Free market worked until the progressives came to power. The progressives pushed government expansion, this has grown and grow to the point we are now.

So if capitalism doesn't work, and communism doesn't work where do you suggest we go as a country?

 

[packerfan79]

they'll argue it wasn't pure enough hahaha

It's not capitalism when the government choses the winners and losers, or when they require ridiculous fees, taxes, licensing. The person who provides the best product for the best price will be successful in business, no government subsidies needed.

 

[coldcanna]

I wonder if any of the government lovers have ever tried to run a business and wade through all the taxes and regulations, working 80-100 hours a week to accomplish their dreams and paying back half of what they make - watching the people who have 5 kids while not married or having a career to support them live in section 8 housing buying their food with "grub stubs".

Darwinism eh? You mean like people being responsible for their own decisions in life, and failing if you do stupid shit? Seems like a good idea to me. Want to smoke 2 packs a day and die at 60? Go ahead, but don't expect free healthcare to cover your chemo. Wanna have kids when your not married and haven't developed a career? Go for it, but don't come to my wallet when you're homeless.

Anyone who's ever lived in a poor area for extended amounts of time knows the rampant abuse of the system, the generational poverty begot not from lack of opportunity but from a mentality of scraping by on their monthly benefits. Not reciting this from some political add, I've seen it all around me for years. Coworker of mine will call out sick for a day or 2 whenever the monthly food stamps reup!

 

[packerfan79]

When you have adults who are triggered by everything, personal responsibility is a bad word.how hard you work should have no bearing upon your standard of living (sarcasm)

 

[Cannavore]

The Free market worked until the progressives came to power.

or because it's never existed. ah yes those darn progressives like radical progressive republican dwight d eisenhower?

The progressives pushed government expansion, this has grown and grow to the point we are now.

capitalism in the 20's and 30's was not providing for americans. just as it is doing now. half of the american workforce today qualifies as living in poverty. most people on government assistance are working two jobs.

what we know now as neoliberalism is the problem. de-regulated predatory free market capitalism, the gutting of unions, staunch backers of free trade and globalization, ect. = neoliberalism

So if capitalism doesn't work, and communism doesn't work where do you suggest we go as a country?

social democracy
a healthier hybrid economy of capitalism and socialism just like all the other western and european countries that are kicking America's ass in education, health care, quality of life, consumer protection, anti corruption, clean elections, ect ect ect ect ect.

 

[Cannavore]

I wonder if any of the government lovers have ever tried to run a business and wade through all the taxes and regulations, working 80-100 hours a week to accomplish their dreams and paying back half of what they make - watching the people who have 5 kids while not married or having a career to support them live in section 8 housing buying their food with "grub stubs".

by grub stubs i assume you mean food stamps? average cost for foodstamps per taxpayer is like $40 a year. meanwhile up to $1000 but usually more is deducted each year from your salary to pay for corporate subsidies (corporate welfare).
american taxpayers currently subsidize the workers of companies like mcdonalds and walmart because they don't pay their workers enough money. why should they go on welfare or be bailed out by taxpayers when it is their employers responsibility to do so? you're mad at the wrong people.


pointing out the problems with capitalism and that the free market is a myth (because it is) doesn't mean i'm a government lover or hate capitalism lol. i'm 100% pro-business especially small and independently owned business (if anything i'm extremely anti monopoly and increasingly anti corporation).
sorry for drawing the logical conclusion that power residing in the public realm of discourse where we theoretically can vote to make things better is infinitely better than having absolute power residing in the hands of un-elected private capitalists.

Darwinism eh? You mean like people being responsible for their own decisions in life, and failing if you do stupid shit? Seems like a good idea to me. Want to smoke 2 packs a day and die at 60? Go ahead, but don't expect free healthcare to cover your chemo. Wanna have kids when your not married and haven't developed a career? Go for it, but don't come to my wallet when you're homeless.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/how-the-pseudoscience-of-social-darwinism-nearly-destro-1308329496

 

[packerfan79]

or because it's never existed. ah yes those darn progressives like radical progressive republican dwight d eisenhower?

View Image


capitalism in the 20's and 30's was not providing for americans. just as it is doing now. half of the american workforce today qualifies as living in poverty. most people on government assistance are working two jobs.

what we know now as neoliberalism is the problem. de-regulated predatory free market capitalism, the gutting of unions, staunch backers of free trade and globalization, ect. = neoliberalism



social democracy
a healthier hybrid economy of capitalism and socialism just like all the other western and european countries that are kicking America's ass in education, health care, quality of life, consumer protection, anti corruption, clean elections, ect ect ect ect ect.

A hybrid of socialism and capitalism doesn't work because eventually the people who produce wealth will not continue, when more than half of their earnings go to people who refuse to work. Eventually everyone wants the handout, and the government has nothing to redistribute.

I wouldn't say they are kicking anyone's ass. We have a hybrid of socialism and capitalism. More government intrusion is not the answer. Government is the problem.

I don't expect socialist leaning folks to , want to work hard for success. Why when the government can confiscate money to provide a crappy life for people who are content to sit home and live a mediocre life.

Their is really no point in arguing about this. Either you think world owes you a life. Or you belive you owe it to yourself to provide for you and your family.