^ya that is a good idea too i think.
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MH vs HPS in bloom
- Thread starter the gnome
- Start date
Hmm.
I always ran hps only, but decided to try mh+hps.
I ran Hps+mh for awhile, i liked the increased potency, but my mh ballast broke.
So i ran Hps only 2 turns.
I was disappointed with the quality of the buds compared to the mh+hps combo.
So i decided to try mh only, 600w.
I had ran out of weed, because my hps ballast decided to give out too after that second turn, got a new one and bought a 600w mh bulb.
Well, so i tried a few buds 4 weeks in bloom. (having run out of weed.)
Lets just say i will be using mh only from now on.
Its strains im very familiar with, i am not seeing smaller bud production with the mh.
And the quality of the high is much better. Smell is better too and the plants look much healthier, plus they are shorter. (very little stem compared to hps.)
Leaf production is up on some strains, similar on other strains.
It is possible that hps is better for some strains, but they are not my strains.
There is one strain i have that might have larger bud production under the hps, im not sure, plus the buds on this strain look more sativa under the mh, they grow more up than sideways.
But the potency is much greater under the mh solo.
I did not see a large enough return on production to go mh+hps combo again.
I use a grow mh, it has added blue, its not a standard mh, those often have a greenish tinge to their light.
I do not use a glass shield for the bulb, it is just naked. I do notice a difference in quality if you use a glass shield for the bulb, the quality goes down.
I always ran hps only, but decided to try mh+hps.
I ran Hps+mh for awhile, i liked the increased potency, but my mh ballast broke.
So i ran Hps only 2 turns.
I was disappointed with the quality of the buds compared to the mh+hps combo.
So i decided to try mh only, 600w.
I had ran out of weed, because my hps ballast decided to give out too after that second turn, got a new one and bought a 600w mh bulb.
Well, so i tried a few buds 4 weeks in bloom. (having run out of weed.)
Lets just say i will be using mh only from now on.
Its strains im very familiar with, i am not seeing smaller bud production with the mh.
And the quality of the high is much better. Smell is better too and the plants look much healthier, plus they are shorter. (very little stem compared to hps.)
Leaf production is up on some strains, similar on other strains.
It is possible that hps is better for some strains, but they are not my strains.
There is one strain i have that might have larger bud production under the hps, im not sure, plus the buds on this strain look more sativa under the mh, they grow more up than sideways.
But the potency is much greater under the mh solo.
I did not see a large enough return on production to go mh+hps combo again.
I use a grow mh, it has added blue, its not a standard mh, those often have a greenish tinge to their light.
I do not use a glass shield for the bulb, it is just naked. I do notice a difference in quality if you use a glass shield for the bulb, the quality goes down.
I ran some sour b under a HPS, and I let one to flower under my MH, I flipped at the same time. The HPS began flowering faster, under the MH flowering took longer for onset but the plant grew alot more than the others. Then I got nervous and threw her in the HPS room about 4 weeks in when she seemed behind the others but she finished fine. Not sure what to think, might try another test.
That sounds like a strain/grower problem not type of light.
Having tried a standard mh (greenish glow to it.)
I think that is what fucked mh up for growers and made them switch to hps.
But mh has come a long way.
Plus you dont want to use a glass hood for the mh, just use a bare bulb.
Funnily i find the mh cooler and i can get the plants closer.
I think that is what fucked mh up for growers and made them switch to hps.
But mh has come a long way.
Plus you dont want to use a glass hood for the mh, just use a bare bulb.
Funnily i find the mh cooler and i can get the plants closer.
A
AlterEgo860
so ur saying I should just turn the lights to 10 on 14 off.. for the last weeks instead of going to MH.. im so confused on this subject... if I had access to lab.. I would do one under mh and one under hps.. but its useless unless I have access to a lab.
for indica just for the last week go to 11 hours. for pure sativa go 10. The other thing you can do is turn down your ballasts. both good suggestions for the last week.
A
AlterEgo860
ive got mags.. cant turn shit down.. I wish I could. but then again.. I love the fact that I don't need to replace everything wen a ballast blows. dependin on the situation.
nachoconqueso
Member
I'm loving all your guys contributions in this thread. Very thoughtful and pleasant. For fun I'm going to try and all mh grow using Sunmaster Red Sunrise. 3200k, lovely spectrum, and 115,000 lumens I believe. I wouldn't be surprised if these bulbs do just as well as the hortilux.
Greetings,
I have only read about halfway through this thread and I wanted to give some thoughts. Pardon me if I am diverting from the most recent lines of thought.
I have always used a combination of HPS and MH on a Sun Circle light mover. My thinking is that the sun puts out intense light in all parts of the spectrum, and it is probably best to try and mimic as close as possible since we probably have only scratched the surface of knowledge about how plants use light.
The Sun Circle works well in distributing, mixing the light, and gives me better buds on the lower parts of the plants. I have a small grow cabinet, 3 x 3 foot, and I use about 90 watts / sq. foot. I feel that the more light the better. The limiting factors are heat and money. Someday, I'm going to increase the area to 4 x 4 and add more light, plasma and possibly a UV reptile light. I'll have four kinds of light sources!
I have not attempted well controlled experiments, but I have stumbled on a few things by accident. The first thing is that trying to get the lights as close as possible can be counter productive. When trying to get the lights optimally close, I discovered that the buds would be better at the tops of the plants if they were as close as possible without getting so close that the heat affects them negatively. They would start to stretch out and have less resin with too much heat. However, I noticed is that the lower bud sites would get shaded and produce less and be lower quality.
Now, I try for lights to be about 16 inches to two feet above the plants. I have gotten rid of my parabolic reflectors that makes light go mostly in the downward direction. I use a HPS with an internal reflector that just reflects light that goes upward back down. The MH has a after market reflector that is small, is very close to the top of the bulb, and only reflects about halfway down the sides of the bulb. My MH bulb is shaped like a tube, similar to a HPS. This makes my lighting system very low profile, and allows heat to be dispersed more easily. In addition, I have collected old fashioned glass mirrors from yard sales, and placed them on the walls of my cabinet. The results are, that light bounces around the cabinet and gets rid of shadows. I think this is similar to people using a "stadium" lighting strategy. Quality and quantity is more uniform up and down the plant.
I have never attempted reflectors that are glassed in so the heat can be removed. I never wanted to increase the layers of glass and reduce the light that way. I have always just increased the circulation and ventilation. So far, I have never had too much light and I have always wanted more ventilation. My next room will have more light/sq. foot, but also much, much, more ventilation. My current cabinet is only optimal in the winter, when temp is easier to control. I have noticed significant differences in quality when temps are near 70 degrees Fahrenheit. I grow sativa and sativa dominant strains, and I truly believe cooler temps with intense light is better. I should add cool temperatures to my signature to complete my secret formula.
Thanks everyone for making this thread so interesting and informative.
ThaiBliss
I have only read about halfway through this thread and I wanted to give some thoughts. Pardon me if I am diverting from the most recent lines of thought.
I have always used a combination of HPS and MH on a Sun Circle light mover. My thinking is that the sun puts out intense light in all parts of the spectrum, and it is probably best to try and mimic as close as possible since we probably have only scratched the surface of knowledge about how plants use light.
The Sun Circle works well in distributing, mixing the light, and gives me better buds on the lower parts of the plants. I have a small grow cabinet, 3 x 3 foot, and I use about 90 watts / sq. foot. I feel that the more light the better. The limiting factors are heat and money. Someday, I'm going to increase the area to 4 x 4 and add more light, plasma and possibly a UV reptile light. I'll have four kinds of light sources!
I have not attempted well controlled experiments, but I have stumbled on a few things by accident. The first thing is that trying to get the lights as close as possible can be counter productive. When trying to get the lights optimally close, I discovered that the buds would be better at the tops of the plants if they were as close as possible without getting so close that the heat affects them negatively. They would start to stretch out and have less resin with too much heat. However, I noticed is that the lower bud sites would get shaded and produce less and be lower quality.
Now, I try for lights to be about 16 inches to two feet above the plants. I have gotten rid of my parabolic reflectors that makes light go mostly in the downward direction. I use a HPS with an internal reflector that just reflects light that goes upward back down. The MH has a after market reflector that is small, is very close to the top of the bulb, and only reflects about halfway down the sides of the bulb. My MH bulb is shaped like a tube, similar to a HPS. This makes my lighting system very low profile, and allows heat to be dispersed more easily. In addition, I have collected old fashioned glass mirrors from yard sales, and placed them on the walls of my cabinet. The results are, that light bounces around the cabinet and gets rid of shadows. I think this is similar to people using a "stadium" lighting strategy. Quality and quantity is more uniform up and down the plant.
I have never attempted reflectors that are glassed in so the heat can be removed. I never wanted to increase the layers of glass and reduce the light that way. I have always just increased the circulation and ventilation. So far, I have never had too much light and I have always wanted more ventilation. My next room will have more light/sq. foot, but also much, much, more ventilation. My current cabinet is only optimal in the winter, when temp is easier to control. I have noticed significant differences in quality when temps are near 70 degrees Fahrenheit. I grow sativa and sativa dominant strains, and I truly believe cooler temps with intense light is better. I should add cool temperatures to my signature to complete my secret formula.
Thanks everyone for making this thread so interesting and informative.
ThaiBliss
ThiaBliss well I'll say that Sativas and Cool temps are not relative..Sub tropicals that grow all season long or in a endless summer enviro doesnt grow the same as Northern climate varieties..Your plants are in Your room acclimating to Your way..not Theirs..cool temps for a Sativa is slow growth and or hibernation...Maybe your Sativas are more mixed then you think tho..
Over all your growing will change their expression as well...grow with them...
Im lovin the Duel mix myself...Im doin a 1k dual and a 1k super blue MH...workin just fine and makin those grenades as they say...
FOE20
Over all your growing will change their expression as well...grow with them...
Im lovin the Duel mix myself...Im doin a 1k dual and a 1k super blue MH...workin just fine and makin those grenades as they say...
FOE20
A
AlterEgo860
question for the guys running about 20 lights or more.. is it just me or do these dudes run there lights extremely high? like ive seen some sick grows .. and they had some outdoor loookin trees.. with the lights soo high above the plants that it looks like it would not work half as good.. but they end up hittin great numbers?
FOE20,
Sounds like we agree on a lot. We are both mixing HPS and MH, we probably are both growing mixed sativa indica hybrids (most, but not all for me), and we agree that cool temperatures slow down growth. I have found that, for me and my strains, around 80-85 degrees is optimal for fast growth, unless you are using CO2 enrichment. What I am implying is that fast growth does not necessarily translate to best quality smoke. I have found the opposite with regards to high temperature, and what I consider over use of fertilizer or overly nutrient rich soils. You may have thought the use of MH in flowering is a poke in the eye to accepted common knowledge, I'm poking at the second and third eyes!
I have been to a few tropical places that are considered sources of excellent quality weed. You would be surprised at the temperatures in the highlands of Costa Rica, Hawaii, and Columbia. I have it on good word that when Panama Red was most popular, large amounts were grown in Costa Rica, next door to Panama. If you were around in the day, the quality of some Colombian and Hawaiian would be self evident. In the coffee growing regions, the temperatures are often a steady 70 to 80 degrees year round. The higher elevations are even cooler.
I have found a raw coffee bean in a bag Colombian once when I was a kid. Rip Off! But, very interesting. You should check out a cat named Red Rider and his Colombian Landrace thread. It is down right cold were he has grown some great Colombian bud. He has pictures that are a trip down memory lane for me. He also thinks the more cerebral, trippy, and clear smoke is grown in the highlands. I guess it all depends on what you consider good quality/potency. I'd venture to say that most traditionally grown, pre 1980 when large amounts of homegrown indoor U.S. weed started to dominate the market, sativa weed was grown in the higher, drier, and cooler regions of the tropics. Even farther north in Afgahnistan, there are lots of strains from the mountain valleys where it is cold, clear, and dry.
I say "Peace", while I try to upset the cart, and get people to think out of the current box! Love that this thread is doing so also.
ThaiBliss
It is because we have absurd light concentration. I move mine closer and start to get light bleaching and fox tailing. my lights are several feet away right now and even my floor is blinding bright.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Hawaiian out door grown weed is the best I have ever had.
There was a book out on the best strains around the world 10-12 years ago that mentioned a guy smoked a few joints with him after coming out of the bush in the Hawaii islands somewhere. Said it was the best he had and grew behind a waterfall. Natural RDWC.
Light bleaching?....Zepp you just mean moving them close so the intensity helps drain them as bleaching would be more damaging..I keep my stuff relatively close...Indos are 1-2ft away which are the most light demanding..mixed and less light needy are 2-3ft away and sats are in the back leaning over everything..,hehehe...
what Im diggin on the MH tho is the penetration seems to reach that extra 6"in to a foot deeper in all directions..and that never hurts..
But I still move my plants to a lower light partial HPS dom side to leach as naturally as possible....but
very kewl ThaiBliss...I agree completely on highland cooler type breeds as I actually see a diff side of it in Co where its more of a high plains desert...Very warm and then very cool but also very dry..In my post I re-read it and meant to say Altitude really instead of Northern..heh...which is closer to what were speaking on..
Im truly most interested in midland to lowland Lumbos but will def be checkin out that thread you mentioned...
To me the rest may be just the longitude/lat that give us these most unique varieties..
Hawaiin or any 0 Lat region would prod some fantastic endless summer herb..While at the same time go up into the mountains and altitude and things change greatly..
The variables between 500-3000ft above sea level and then 3000 to 5000 and then the very high 5000 and up into 8-9000ft...dont know but this makes me want to go to Hawaii and see how it happens in person!..heh..
But all good bradda and no worries m8...were def both just talkin about plants and thats what its all about..keep rollin
FOE20
what Im diggin on the MH tho is the penetration seems to reach that extra 6"in to a foot deeper in all directions..and that never hurts..
But I still move my plants to a lower light partial HPS dom side to leach as naturally as possible....but
very kewl ThaiBliss...I agree completely on highland cooler type breeds as I actually see a diff side of it in Co where its more of a high plains desert...Very warm and then very cool but also very dry..In my post I re-read it and meant to say Altitude really instead of Northern..heh...which is closer to what were speaking on..
Im truly most interested in midland to lowland Lumbos but will def be checkin out that thread you mentioned...
To me the rest may be just the longitude/lat that give us these most unique varieties..
Hawaiin or any 0 Lat region would prod some fantastic endless summer herb..While at the same time go up into the mountains and altitude and things change greatly..
The variables between 500-3000ft above sea level and then 3000 to 5000 and then the very high 5000 and up into 8-9000ft...dont know but this makes me want to go to Hawaii and see how it happens in person!..heh..
But all good bradda and no worries m8...were def both just talkin about plants and thats what its all about..keep rollin
FOE20
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A
AlterEgo860
thanks for the info.
It would help a lot with this discussion, if people added this.
What lamps they have tried. (and how extensively.)
Why they use the lamps they use now. (Including if it was from experience or someone´s says so.)
And whether they grow for profit or pleasure. (A case of either choosing quantity over quality vs quality over quantity.)
Im using an mh now and im not seeing a damn difference in budsize. Except one strain that seems to have slightly smaller buds, othervise its all looking similar to usual.
The buds however are.
Much harder, denser.
The greater leaf production, seems to be in some strains only.
Quality of the smoke is much better, stronger high, better taste and smell.
The plants are quite a bit stickier.
The plants look healthier in all ways.
Plus they are shorter (less stem.)
(I have grown, solo hps, 600whps+400wmh and solo mh (plus cfl and t5. grows.)
(I have grown for 7 years and i grow for personal pleasure and medication.)
So far i do not see a reason to use hps again.
It might be more efficient on paper, but for example because quite a bit of that power is expended as infra red light. (basically heat..)
The mh is actually cooler and you can get the plants closer.
It is possible however that the choice of light might depend on what strains you are running.
That why it is essential to hear from growers more details.
About everything in the grow, what strains tried too and how dialed in you are with them and so on.
What lamps they have tried. (and how extensively.)
Why they use the lamps they use now. (Including if it was from experience or someone´s says so.)
And whether they grow for profit or pleasure. (A case of either choosing quantity over quality vs quality over quantity.)
Im using an mh now and im not seeing a damn difference in budsize. Except one strain that seems to have slightly smaller buds, othervise its all looking similar to usual.
The buds however are.
Much harder, denser.
The greater leaf production, seems to be in some strains only.
Quality of the smoke is much better, stronger high, better taste and smell.
The plants are quite a bit stickier.
The plants look healthier in all ways.
Plus they are shorter (less stem.)
(I have grown, solo hps, 600whps+400wmh and solo mh (plus cfl and t5. grows.)
(I have grown for 7 years and i grow for personal pleasure and medication.)
So far i do not see a reason to use hps again.
It might be more efficient on paper, but for example because quite a bit of that power is expended as infra red light. (basically heat..)
The mh is actually cooler and you can get the plants closer.
It is possible however that the choice of light might depend on what strains you are running.
That why it is essential to hear from growers more details.
About everything in the grow, what strains tried too and how dialed in you are with them and so on.
A
AlterEgo860
the only thing I didn't like was it seemed like my plants took an extra week or 2 to finish with MH... and the buds were tiny .. its all strain dependent like people said.. so it doesn't matter if the give all the info.. I could have the same strains and setup as u.. and one of us will yield more. or less.. better or worse.. its all about environment.. nutes.. an lights .. ill never go back to full MH.. I mite add 1 MH per every 4 HPS. like they said 20 percent does great things. l
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