MASSIVE OUTDOOR GROW

[Julian]

Hey my friend......

Well, you know, ideally, I take a lot of steps even before it's cut....sometimes all, sometimes less.....(I know you know )....

Sometimes do pre cut trims at spot with electrics and/or manuals...(all of us working all the time)......almost all the time I stick to only big stuff to start with......sometimes will also trim bottoms earlier (as all should anyway, but, in volume, sometimes just not possible.......and, also all locations not possible which is why running smaller is a bonus (for city spots).....Sometimes have used machines (rented), sometimes have not (depends on year...not every project same size, some bigger, some smaller, some much smaller...), and, also, lot of times lot of things watched over (like bubble piles/bags).....ie: opened, aired, dumped out, closed, opened, aired, dumped out, closed, etc......which actually can sometimes be a lot better than most people think...(We had some bags that were still sitting in January actually last run....I was actually pretty surprised at quality, smell, etc...), either way....we're usually working all night (4-6pm until 1am) for about 2-3 months harvest season....(Note: Partners, their family,(Maybe brother, etc..) and I usually have a couple people to choose from...

(When things start to come a little under control.....then people start taking things home......get to it with who and when they want, etc, as they go along....which is usually as the majority of the biggest stuff has been addressed.....)

(Any mold is tossed to dry asap and of course separate for all and labeled (for when bubble is run.....)

Usually works out for the best and then once the real cold weather hits,(ice, snow,0-, etc) I start on the bubble...(I usually have someone else go through it to clean it up and as a bonus just tell them whatever they find that's nice, we just split , and, as of late I do same for the bubble.......ie: You make it, we split it....)

(I like making bubble and do it well, but, when your running huge amounts....a serious PITA)

(Another reason why sometimes I do the trimmings pre cut (fans, etc) because pretty much of no use whatsoever later on and just makes more of a mess if something has to sit and dries...(ie: crumbles, etc....)

Lot of security actually comes from volume.... (ie:There's more than enough to go around and keep everyone extremely happy....YOU want to deal with trimming and drying it all? Be my fuckin guest You'd start to think twice about what you've done (if stolen) halfway through loading (jmo.....my rule of thumb has always been make more than everyone needs and kind of eliminates the greed issues

With enough....the "me/mine syndrome" kind of becomes the "Ehh....nah, that's okay, you can have it" syndrome (Me personally.....I don't care anything about smaller stuf....I'm not going to go through it, I'm not going to trim it, and, I don't even make the bubble myself anymore, so.......really matters little, and, everyone else seems to appreciate the generosity and gesture

Note: Just thinking about harvest makes me ill.........not something I look forward to, and, most labor intensive and risky part of entire season imo......(I like the small stuff best, most solid, minimal trim, least amount of bullshit...etc...)

 

[pakalolo420]

True... true.

OK, what's your take on topping/fimming? I mean I've tried it lots of times and it seems to me some plants seem to like it and respond, others it just seems to slow them down and hurt yield. I can never get a definitive result in empirical testing. Comparisons are no doubt hampered by the fact that I've always grown from seed so there's no way of knowing really what the plant you topped or didn't would really have done if you'd gone the other way. There's the advantage that you don't get that huge mold sponge terminal cola if you top, but the rest of the buds look fatter and perhaps more mold-prone than the secondaries on a natural plant. Plus I love those giant donkey dick colas you can get outdoors on a good plant I'll admit, so I've gone to a no trim, let them grow however they want policy.

And bottom branches, the loooong skinny ones that just grow a tuft of bud on the end and those wonderful (not) "buds" with twelve or so calyxes at the nodes... keep them or trim them off before flower? I've never tried trimming them off, but some people have apparently been pleased with the result: Less popcorn; more legit buddage- but maybe less overall weight?.

 

[Julian]

OK, what's your take on topping/fimming? I mean I've tried it lots of times and it seems to me some plants seem to like it and respond, others it just seems to slow them down and hurt yield. I can never get a definitive result in empirical testing.

Well, actually depends on a lot of things.....

1. On my largest stuff, I do whenever possible, and, the main reason I started was due to things getting too large, and, top getting hit with mold (size, density, etc), and, also due to size and weight issues, (storms, winds, tipping, etc...)

After I started, size (colas) of course spread out and shorter and stronger, so......

2.On my small city stuff I prefer to if possible (I did last time but might miss some...I have one spot that is getting out of hand numbers wise...), but, of course, a lot are smaller, but, reason I do for those is to change the "profile"...

(The city stuff ranges....I put out a round of a bunch over in one spot this week, so, those, probably won't be, but, at the same time, I have stuff that is (right now) a foot or two...so, those I thought should be....might help a bit (if a foot or two and still some veg left....well.....I might even hit em again if I go back soon..(still wanted to go try and get some pics, but, might wait a little so I can get the sexing in too while I'm there....)

For the larger though, I noticed less mold issues.......(was reason why I started.....plus the size also....)

Comparisons are no doubt hampered by the fact that I've always grown from seed so there's no way of knowing really what the plant you topped or didn't would really have done if you'd gone the other way. There's the advantage that you don't get that huge mold sponge terminal cola if you top, but the rest of the buds look fatter and perhaps more mold-prone than the secondaries on a natural plant. Plus I love those giant donkey dick colas you can get outdoors on a good plant I'll admit, so I've gone to a no trim, let them grow however they want policy.

Well, I do the same.....for the most part (from seed), and, also, I usually run different things every time, so...(Just what I see or peaks my interest at that time, when shopping, etc.....)

Yeah, as above....mold issues, plus, as said...size and weight issues also seem to be resolved...)

And bottom branches, the loooong skinny ones that just grow a tuft of bud on the end and those wonderful (not) "buds" with twelve or so calyxes at the nodes... keep them or trim them off before flower? I've never tried trimming them off, but some people have apparently been pleased with the result: Less popcorn; more legit buddage- but maybe less overall weight?.

Well, for me, just a matter of convenience (not).....and, time also (if we are there at right time and can get everything done.....the smaller and quicker the tasks the more that can be done, and, of course, can't necessarily do everything all the time (time issues for everyone involved...) I think I haven't been at big one in almost a month....(I think.not even sure, been working other things...think one partner was there a couple weeks ago....)

I've seen it stated that everything trimmed is essentially transferred to other branches..(so, you trim off a potential 5 z's in little stuff, you'll pick up the 5 z's on the big stuff....but, you know....I don't really do like "experiments" and have "notes".....so, really don't know for sure...(have never done same side by side and measured results, etc to the gram......Volume...just glad to get it in....I don't even usually know the final totals....some goes here, some goes there, some gets taken, some trimmed, some waiting, lot on bubble piles, etc, etc.....As long as target hit, usually everything after that is just "gravy" to play with....I mean, really......it becomes just funny If I had the time I would always if only due to convenience issues.......(some people might think about loss, but, what price can one put on their time and work......ie: small stuff takes a lot of time....and, on that, I do have ideas as to figures.....being: I know, for a fact, I can trim an lb or 2 even by hand myself of the biggest, nicest stuff..., and, c'mon.....what would that same p or 2 of small stuff represent to someone?....a days work if by hand???? So, I think it applies across the board......(big or small guys.... you always want to budget your time and efforts to be most efficient and effective......

So, I prefer topped and trimmed.....for those reasons, except when the small stuff and I leave it......(above I would consider small (foot or two now) but, not going to end up small, so, I think helps the profile o0verall because I have a lot over there.......was thinking the other day I could even have up to, like...I don't even know...6-700 just in the one city spot spread out.....which is wayyy too much....)

 

[Julian]

Of note, and possibly of great interest to people (for their own situations...)

The above is exactly why for a while now I have been just starting to think maybe blow off most of the season in general, and, just stick to late(er) stuff......

1.Lower profile, safer...more stealth overall....
2. They're more solid, less bullshit to deal with.......
3. Hell of a lot less work spending months tending to things..(so, just changing would shave almost entire season of work......
4.Exposure reduced to almost nothing (couple weeks veg and then flower as compared to, again, having exposure for months throughout season......

So, once again an angle people sometimes don't think about....and, I've been toying with for a while......All issues above valid to all, anytime, anywhere.....Numbers play an issue, would have to run more to get targets, but, as stated many places, just smaller and later in itself reduces risk.......by profile...etc..

Something I have really been thinking about...(and, as above....maybe running AF's earlier in season, etc.....think could get some fairly large crops in and out very quick......)

All about the "hit and run"

Sure....this, that, money, but, bottom line is:
"What you can, when you can, where you can"....

Safety is number one....

Would I miss giants?...yeah, sure...but, all point above (safer, less work, less exposure, lower profile, etc...)

Starting to think about just changing to late rounds and maybe try some early season AF larger rounds....

Edit: (I've really been wondering over the past 2-3 years if I could pull off a 2-3-4-5 acre of AF's in May and June on the right farm, right area.....More I think about it, more I think possible....(Have been planning like 2 acres of late season for a while...just waiting for right time and spot............whatever 2,1,etc.........a lot...but, I think the earlier/AF is infinitely more safe as far as timing.....and, of course "hit and run" angle comes into play......

Quicker your in, quicker your out, safer it is

(ie: Exposure...the amount of time one, and their op, is exposed to the world around you.......60-70-80 days a hell of a lot different from 6 months...)

Spots...location...site selection....methods.......it's all about: What is your exposure?

 

[pakalolo420]

I agree on the AFs' potential. It would probably be worth planting 10,000 hit and run in basically no prep/no maintenance method. I mean how much soil prep do you really need to grow a little 2 foot plant? People could probably see a solid acre of little AF ankle biters in an agricultural area from 100 ft away and never make the connection that they were looking at cannabis. We are trained to see cannabis a certain way, and if it doesn't match our preconcieved notions of how we think it looks it probably won't even register.

Also around here most of the danger of them being found is helicopter overflights. These usually happen in August/September when the plants are big and easy to spot. Shit I could be in, out done and gone, sitting on a mountain of dry product before they ever fueled up the copter for the first time. They have almost no chance. I know for a fact that once the reprod crews come through a fresh clearcut in the middle of nowhere, it'll be over a year to the next work people walk through to thin. How many do you think could be popped in in the middle of a 1,000 acre clearcut and pulled before anyone even had a chance to see them? The hunters are about the only other infrequent rec users in a clearcut once you're 100 feet in and they don't come out until Fall. I'd bet I could even get away with seed planting in situ, not even having starts to carry, just a big ass bag of seed. Figure 66,000 seeds per kilo... I want maybe 10 kilos of potent femmed AF seed (doable DIY in a decent small commersh indoor with a little work). I can carry 10kg of seed on my back easy. They make seed planters you can carry, you load up the hopper and just poke the end in the ground, presto. Do it half a million times over a couple of weeks...

The odds of pulling it off really aren't that remote.

Edit: OK I did the math. 1 poke with the planter per second, 12 hour work day = 38,200 seeds planted per person planting. Small planting crew... yeah, could do 10kg of seed. Absolutely.

 

[Julian]

I agree on the AFs' potential. It would probably be worth planting 10,000 hit and run in basically no prep/no maintenance method. I mean how much soil prep do you really need to grow a little 2 foot plant?

Not a lot at all I am sure

(Sure other options could be used (mechanical), but, I know my lates I can do by hand one or even start another per minute, so...even a weekend (or week) by hand...who even knows

People could probably see a solid acre of little AF ankle biters in an agricultural area from 100 ft away and never make the connection that they were looking at cannabis.

I know for a fact this is the case..(Last year had crews working twice less than 10 feet from small late patches and they didn't see em Fact.)

If a road?......throw in a privacy fence and that is that.....

(I've done pretty large smaller in past....up to 1/2 acre lots....just have been toying with farmland, acreage, etc....)

We are trained to see cannabis a certain way, and if it doesn't match our preconcieved notions of how we think it looks it probably won't even register.

I say the same all the time, and, it's a fact..........how it is.....

Everyone has preconceived notions, about everything in life......all the time...

Size....time of season...etc.....people would think was just a legit crop......(and, would be gone shortly thereafter......even a later batch, if kept smaller....might register the same due to it varying from what is "the norm"....)

Also around here most of the danger of them being found is helicopter overflights.

But, in some cases, depending on where it is done,. they don't do those areas anyway .....

These usually happen in August/September when the plants are big and easy to spot.

YYyyyyyyyyep

Shit I could be in, out done and gone, sitting on a mountain of dry product before they ever fueled up the copter for the first time.

Yyyyyyyyyyep

They have almost no chance.

With the right approaches?

No......they don't

(And every single person here doing out is proof of that )

(Lot of people might read this and think, as usual "impossible".....well....no, it's not....not even close......I wouldn't consider growing some plants impossible...since that is, of course, what we do ....)

It's merely a different approach with a few more added to numbers...

I know for a fact that once the reprod crews come through a fresh clearcut in the middle of nowhere, it'll be over a year to the next work people walk through to thin. How many do you think could be popped in in the middle of a 1,000 acre clearcut and pulled before anyone even had a chance to see them? The hunters are about the only other infrequent rec users in a clearcut once you're 100 feet in and they don't come out until Fall. I'd bet I could even get away with seed planting in situ, not even having starts to carry, just a big ass bag of seed. Figure 66,000 seeds per kilo... I want maybe 10 kilos of potent femmed AF seed (doable DIY in a decent small commersh indoor with a little work). I can carry 10kg of seed on my back easy. They make seed planters you can carry, you load up the hopper and just poke the end in the ground, presto. Do it half a million times over a couple of weeks...

The odds of pulling it off really aren't that remote.

Not even nearly "remote".....Just something one would decide to do, and, then do

I would start them though like I always do for late ones (but probably outside), just to make sure established, space not wasted...I know my limit about 10,000.....(solid week I think one could get 10,000 starts out.....7 12-16hr days......partner or two would help a lot.......)

I've been thinking about it for a while, so...I'm convinced it is possible

(And, due to reduced exposure.....probably much more safer than I think......Privacy fenced covering road and separating house from field?.....don;'t see how it would be a problem....)

Had a late one planned..........for this year...that got shot for various reasons........but, still on the books Maybe next.......

Did come across a 40 acre estate not too long ago with some agricultural (and a pool )......

(And, 10,000 mini's is not a lot btw.......be lucky to hit 300lbs.......(sexed becomes 5k,5K at z =300 and change....Goal is to make back value of property......500k property?....500k from batch.......free to move on and do with property what you want....fix and flip.....hold.....give to family...etc....)

Goal is the amount of the property.....(on different note......could do the same from 300 trees if you could get away with it...or, 600 mid season plants...(easier, because with a large lot you can make them appear as a "hedge"......which again, would pass the perception test....ie: 5-6 foot privacy fence...solid rounded bushes appearing as landscaping, halfways up the fence.....perception )

They're all possible........just how much do you want to spend, and how much work do you want to put in, and, how confident you can pull it off........again, 70-80 days much different from 6 months in the open....)

Clarification of the above:
Goal is amount of property.....

All depends on the approach...that's always been my rule of thumb minimum......

For someone else.....to get the years mortgage payments might be fine (and change the numbers to maybe 10-20lbs which from a larger property is literally a cakewalk...(ie: 10-20 trees on wooded, fenced private 10 acres, etc......25-50 mid season on 10 wooded , fenced acres....no problem.....)

Just food for though....If I had it my way, I'd get everyone into larger estate properties and have em do minimal to pay for it (ideally 2 years payment, because you might want to just take a year off now and then )

(still, 2 years maybe 100-150k.....30-50lbs........call it 100 nice medium trees...(bushes...) 100 nice bushes on a 5-10 acre fenced wooded lot is not a problem......)

Edit: My new little "thing" as of late is to get everyone I know with any kind of private yard to take/plant/grow one......(late...)

Just one...to see for themselves ..(or 2...make some seed for next year )

Then people start to see, you really can do almost anything, anywhere....(As long as you know what your doing to start with )

 

[Julian]

Note: How it ideally works is you can either close on a property right at planting....., or, can also close a couple months before if you have expenses on hand....so, someone pulls 20lbs this year...call it 50-60k...boom...there's your year in reserves, go no money down....and, proceed )

(I like closing before planting though...close, plant weekend after close....relax, enjoy the pool a little...within 90 days your packed up and done , and, ideally, just made anywhere from the value of the property to the next 5+/- years in payments..........enjoy the pool.....and, think about what you want to do next )

All comes down to how confident one is in their growing ability

Is one confident enough in their growing skills to bet a mortgage on it?

Kind of changes ones opinions of their skill when looked at that way

Sound serious? It is....this ain't no fuckin game

Pulling it off?.......As long as your one serious motherfucker?....

No problem

No problem at all

 

[clearcutter]

Is one confident enough in their growing skills to bet a mortgage on it?

For me growing it isn't the problem. It's unloading any sizable amount that seems to be a problem for me. I hate sitting on any amount for a long period and for me it's not worth the risk unloading it an eighth at a time.

Last week i gave 4 people a gram each. Three have come back looking for more. Two wanted an eighth, and one wanted more for free.

Alot of people in my area seem to think that if it isn't called "killer green bud" it can't be as good as what they have been getting.

One more thing i've noticed is in my area is quality doesn't have a big affect on price.

 

[clearcutter]

Is the quality of auto flowering strains high enough that you could get rid of it no problem?

 

[pumpkin2006]

So Julian, master of the research and acquisitioner of knowledge, what strain are you gonna run on the AF's? I have a couple suggestions, if you would like it. Also, ever think about collidial silver with some AF females..... I know I am.

 

[pumpkin2006]

Is the quality of auto flowering strains high enough that you could get rid of it no problem?

Unfortunately.... lowryder has given many AF strains a poor name. Mighty Mite, being one of them, was around long before. Although it has not been stabilized as a full on AF; from what I've been told, a portion of the seeds planted always AF. You take the AF ones, cross for 3 generations and get that gene stabilized, then you cross it with whatever else you like (this is what they did with lowryder, but lowryder has crap genetics).

Also there are a number of dutch strains that flower under 6 hours of darkness, that I believe would work at a lower latitude.

 

[Julian]

For me growing it isn't the problem. It's unloading any sizable amount that seems to be a problem for me. I hate sitting on any amount for a long period and for me it's not worth the risk unloading it an eighth at a time.

Understood, not only you......lot of people have such a problem and I suppose depends who and what you are......

There was a write up in sister thread about "developing sources"....Not sure if still there or was deleted....Can be easy in some cases....

Last week i gave 4 people a gram each. Three have come back looking for more. Two wanted an eighth, and one wanted more for free.

The 2 are obviously promising

That's the natural progression, and, those eighth people could very well turn into lb people in a month or more....

(Of course, you want to control it to the pricing you want, because, of course, higher you go, greater the break, so...might not want p's in relation to what you have to move...best pricing might be, say, halves, etc........(sister thread has stuff about this, I know...we were just discussing it the other day..."the rules".....

Alot of people in my area seem to think that if it isn't called "killer green bud" it can't be as good as what they have been getting.

One more thing i've noticed is in my area is quality doesn't have a big affect on price.

You know, in my range, it's kind of the same...."hardcore" reaches a point (in bulk), and, pricewise, that's that......(ie: let's say 3k more or less per p, and, doesn't matter if it's twice as good....your not getting over 3........(Just this circle....volume buyers, etc.....They move p's themselves, so........there is a cut off at least for my world........Anything else really all you can do is sell z's and q'pers to those moving the larger loads for their own ps (if you want more money.....)

Hell, my last crop was the sour bubble, and, extremely hardcore.....was very nice.......but, again, about 3k a p.....(some got it for 300 a z a couple at a time for ps, etc.......but, that's kind of how it works in my world.....occasionally, depending on the source can go higher...(maybe 3500-4000, but, these are of course also risks security wise, as, they are small guys, etc.....)

Is the quality of auto flowering strains high enough that you could get rid of it no problem?

Well, I know I have been doing a little reading here and there, and, made a couple inquiries......and seems other things (higher quality) are being developed by a couple people....so.......

I've never run em so not certain of product, but, I know a nice clip/dry/cure does wonders for a lot of things.....I mean, even if not the hardest of the hardcore......if can produce volume under favorable circumstances (security, simplicity, etc), the maybe still worth it in the long run (ie: so, can do it for 2200 p, whatever, well, I'm not going to be pulling in a harvest of anything in June anyway, so.......

So Julian, master of the research and acquisitioner of knowledge, what strain are you gonna run on the AF's? I have a couple suggestions, if you would like it. Also, ever think about collidial silver with some AF females..... I know I am.

As above man....just been reading a little here and there seeing what's actually out there, and, read about some other things being developed (boost quality), so.......as of this second......really not sure...but, will have to be some nice reviews on it and favorable commentary of course......

I've never had any AF's (smoked), so...you know, I mean, yeah quality (ultra) might not be there, but, as above....if comes in halfway decent, and, worth 22(24?), still might not be bad, but, I'm a smoker too , so, would be nice if it was something of quality...(would be a shame to run something and can't even smoke it myself )

I've read a little here and there and really don't understand the breeding of them...(ie: if something nice crossed with AF, I would assume half would come out with larger parent characteristics, and then have to be grown out again to further target AF's, etc, etc (ie: you make the cross, 50% remain, with some of the other parents characteristics, other 50% not AF, etc...)

(Just speculating...not a breeder, never have been, have no time to be.......so...merely speculation.....no working knowledge of breeding....well, breeding plants )

Unfortunately.... lowryder has given many AF strains a poor name. Mighty Mite, being one of them, was around long before. Although it has not been stabilized as a full on AF; from what I've been told, a portion of the seeds planted always AF. You take the AF ones, cross for 3 generations and get that gene stabilized, then you cross it with whatever else you like (this is what they did with lowryder, but lowryder has crap genetics).

Also there are a number of dutch strains that flower under 6 hours of darkness, that I believe would work at a lower latitude.

One of my last seized orders actually had a couple MM crosses.......was looking forward to running them......

I've heard lot of different stuff being worked on, so....just figured I would keep an eye out as time went on till something came up that everyone agreed upon overall as halfway decent product......

 

[lemonade]

I envy the prices you US guys charge. In BC a lb of really good indoor is about 2200. 2k for average stuff, sometimes less. Good outdoor is even cheaper,only 1600-1900 lb, no matter how good it is, and most people don't care if it's organic or not.

Some are willing to pay higher prices for top notch outdoor (usually older folks) but they usually don't want quantity.

Growing can be a lot more lucrative down south it seems. Guess you guys have to deal with stiffer penalties if caught though.

 

[Julian]

Guess you guys have to deal with stiffer penalties if caught though.

I'll take house arrest for 1600-2000 over 20 to life for 3000 any day of the week...

 

[3BM]

Im coming into all of this a little late ... so please bear with me. So J was FM? I was devouring all the FM posts, but lost my connection for a while. I come back, and BAM they are completely gone. I said, oh well I can let it go today I have weeks to take this all in ... then POW! Like OG all over again. Glad to have you still firing away in any form J, much

I wanted to revisit a few topics from the indoor thread that were lost. I started to read a bit about No-doc loans, and wondered if you might go into some greater detail here. What credit score are we talking about here, 750+? Additionally, does any info on business documentation survive? I know it differs from state to state, but any experience in this area is valuable. How does the IRS look on little or no documentation of clients, transactions, etc? For example, the detailing business ... legitimately might be cash only with little or no record. They call I come, clean, pay, leave. Maybe a computer generated income statement with invoices corresponding to each months transactions? I mean how far are we legally required to go in a legitimate small business like this? My lawn guy doesnt give me a receipt, and I always pay in cash ... what documentation does he keep? This is all federal tax law right? No difference from state to state on this. Ok I have asked enough questions, but I hope we might revive this discussion in detail. Many thanks to J for his conviction and sober treatment of this subject. So many of us lead intensely private lives, it helps to hear about life after the counter culture. Thanks for all that you do!

3bm

 

[Julian]

I started to read a bit about No-doc loans, and wondered if you might go into some greater detail here. What credit score are we talking about here, 750+?

As above, lending industry went through a big thing past couple months, now settling down.....Scores were raised, guidelines changed, programs pulled, but, seem to be settling down because I steered a foaf's kid into a stated (ie: you lie) for a 660 score..(100% ltv....660 score, stated )...so...but, around 700 is good (worse you go, less rates are favorable.....any and all risk is reflected in rates as a general rule....so....)

Additionally, does any info on business documentation survive? I know it differs from state to state, but any experience in this area is valuable. How does the IRS look on little or no documentation of clients, transactions, etc?
For example, the detailing business ... legitimately might be cash only with little or no record. They call I come, clean, pay, leave. Maybe a computer generated income statement with invoices corresponding to each months transactions? I mean how far are we legally required to go in a legitimate small business like this? My lawn guy doesnt give me a receipt, and I always pay in cash ... what documentation does he keep? This is all federal tax law right? No difference from state to state on this. Ok I have asked enough questions, but I hope we might revive this discussion in detail.

As said before......

My tech guys are Russians....their "business" is their cell phone and craigs list (they probably bank it, don't declare it...)

My dog walker took cash, probably banked it, probably didn't declare it...)

My contractors take cash, probably bank half , and, don;t declare it I am sure....

This is how the average "small business" owner conducts themselves in America. Fact.

The confusion basically comes in that:

1."Small Business" vs. "Real Business".....

I'm sure there are professionals in every field that ddo "side jobs" and could produce their little detailed "books" that they created with a software program , but, most of the world isn't like this, aren't good at it, and, ask any accountant, have to be forced to keep better records....

Why?............

Because the government demands it?

Or because they are losing endless deductions by not being able to produce receipts?...(and, maybe claiming them, maybe not...)

2.Certain industries...(industries...not business's...) are regulated.......legal, financial, etc...medical I am sure......and countless other things.....(might have to keep all 5 years, 10 years, etc, depends on industry...(And, in many cases that would be the state regulatory commission that oversees industry which would dictate that time period and accounting and record keeping regulations...not the government

Really, in the end, it boils down to if you can't prove your deduction by receipts you can't claim it....

Now, let me say something else...

I know first hand, upwards of 50 people who simply deposit large amounts of money, and, pay their quarterly estimates on the year end total (you pay quarterlies on last years , so, hence "estimated" quarterly taxes....

(Those are legitimate people btw....no "extra" money....all real legit people.....business owners..(some bars, clubs, some contractors, etc, etc....)

See, people forget the issue is most do not want to claim all their money....

You do...

This is honesty......The above is evasion.

I have a friend , who personally just deposits what he likes...deductions are supported 100% by documentation, and, his banking matches his quarterlies which match his year end total he claims.......

He's had the IRS up his ass.......they want receipts for deductions, and, they might want basically documentation of every single thing.......(banking records of deposits to match against everything else...)

He was never asked to produce records of every event leading to those deposits...because that is his business ....they're not questioning his business...they are questioning if his receipts match his deductions, and, deposits match his declared income......

(One could also avoid all of that and just buy a place, as little down as possible, throw "extra money" into it in improvements and repairs, and, that would be that (but then you wouldn't be able to claim any related on your deductions, because that money of course would most likely not have been declared..

It's actually very simple:
Everything has to match...

Either the money is in the system, or it is out.......(people want both.....can't have both though....)

If your going to make 200 and declare 50, you had better not have any documentation showing that extra 150 was spent...(tangible assets, cash)....(or, repairs, with no deductions claimed, ideally not even a permit, which is not a problem for many things.........etc....)

As above...you obviously can't bank 200 and declare 50..(which is what most people do and how things actually become a problem upon any kind of look......)

Evasion is, of course, criminal......a "criminal act"......so.....(so is not filing at all when you have to....)

People seem to look upon it as some problem, but, there is no problem when your declaring more than you have to and paying your taxes on it...

Either your going to hide it, or use it....you can't do both...(ie: guys filing no returns at all.......saying no money, no job, yet have several cars, 900k home, 200k in jewelry and 200k in furniture and a boat...(but, doesn't "have a job"

Ummm....that's where the criminal investigations start, and, maybe, just maybe, DEA notified also...

A legitimate business owner who declares all his money, pays his taxes, on time,........

This is not a problem...

Record keeping for most?

They'd just think you were pretty stupid (But, if you didn't claim unreasonable deductions, and had no irregularities..... it would not happen....)

Now, personally?....I think all has very little to do with anything.......

IRS?

The least of your worries.......(if declaring all........and/or no records whatsoever if you are not (tangible assets.......)

DEA is what your worried about.....Law Enforcement......being able to back up assets by legitimate earnings..(tax paid )

(People overlook that a home purchased for no money down has absolutely no equity in it How can something have been purchased with "extra money" if it didn't cost anything to buy it (and, of course, since it matches your business or job deposits for payments, and, since there is no deductions or documentation regarding any improvements (since it was done for cash and no permits )

You see where I'm going with that?

How can an apartment building bought no money down and mortgage payments and expenses paid by tenants be a product of illegal revenue?????



Makes the attorneys jobs a little easier

(likewise for family, friends, business's and properties.......)

Record keeping ( lack of) for the majority of all small business's is not required.....

It's just unwise and irresponsible and prevents you from taking advantage of many deductions you otherwise could if more details records were available

That's how it works.....that's how America operates.......

Simple fact......

(I get receipts from corporate.......larger grocery stores, gas stations, office stores, wal mart, etc...)

No one else gives them because they want to pocket the cash



Here's a funny one...

I once had a friend who bought a vintage watch (Cartier?) at a "flea market" for $6......

Turned out this watch was worth 60k.

See how that works

(He does quite well at flea markets..... all the time just picking stuff out of the garbage worth 50k-100k

Quite the Genuis he is.....

(see how that works? )

(What?, you mean the flea market guy working out of the back of his van selling stuff he picked from the garbage didn't give him a computer generated invoice?????



I prefer to address the real world...

And that is how the real world works....

Who knows.......any one of you might find a rare coin worth 200k by the railroad tracks this fall.......

(Stranger things have happened btw...)

"But, J, how can I but that coin worth 200k unless I get it into the system to buy it with?"

Ummmm.........I would include art and coin deals for the most part in the same category as contractors..(And, most know that their clients may indeed wish to keep their possessions secret, pay cash, and, have no one know, and, most likely, they themselves would be much happier to know that you'd have no problem with them wanting to keep that off their books and in cash also .....)

That's America......

Land of the Free....

Home of the "Fuck that, I pay enough taxes".....

 

[Guest]

Bla bla bla blah!!!

WHere is the grow........huh?
Kiddn.

 

[Julian]

Grow???????

It's only talk.... I don't grow....haven't you heard????



Although......I might be finishing this round (not last above, long past and into another), and have a couple prep shots (2000 per room) of the last 2 rounds I think I'm doing, and, maybe, just maybe some shots from one city spot I have to check (I think I have 500-600 in just that one strip), and, some other shots of other project if I get by there sometimes before or during the weekend....)

If not, I'm sure I'll get to it by next weekend....Has to be done..

But, no, I don't grow........and don't believe anyone who says I do!!!

 

[Julian]

Some other notes arising from a recent discussion with several.....

People always ask me what it the big deal and the rush with cleaning up once all planting finished?

Something all should be aware of, and, actually quite serious is if one should be caught "growing" , in a plot, etc, etc, they will find their way into to your known residence (which may, or may not be your actual residence) shortly.....

After everything is planted, one always wants everything cleaned up, with no signs of anything, and minimal "laying" around,. because you never know what tomorrow will hold.....

Supplies? If your done, they get packed for next season.....You want minimal of any and everything on hand at any given time....

Thought I would add that...something very significant which many overlook throughout the season.....

 

[Julian]

Some other notes and points that directly carry over from indoor to out is making the highest and best use of unfavorable weather....

For example: One of my rounds earlier this week (or weekend, I really can't remember what day) was absolute monsoon rains.....the kind where people start pulling their cars over because no viability, too heavy, etc....

I had the last of that round (last round ) that had to get out, and, planned on doing it either that day or the next (was rain those days), and, of course, we look outside, see that, and, no one really wants to go out in it....but, of course, for my city spots, I took as it a VERY rare and exceptional opportunity and just said fuck it, use it to my advantage, and, went out and did the run......(in near pitch black and monsoon....)

I got wet, so what....and, because I was willing to get a little wet (was soaked, besides the point ) my safety was increased....100 fold.......nothing more safe....no visability for anyone, anywhere of any distance, and, because such bad weather, got it done faster than I usually would have because I wanted to GTF outta there asap (did last 100 of last round in about 45 minutes....)

So....unfavorable weather, just as with store visits and any delivery runs.....should be used to fullest advantage because of their rarity and safety which accompany them....