Diary Mars FCE-6500 680w LED Grow Journal

[Mars Hydro Led]

I didn't include that voltage since it's not commonly used for most, I only use 120-240v. I get the same wattage if 240v is used. The only thing that changes is amps. 277v is a commercial operation voltage. I still can't locate any info on how much wattage this driver is wasting to make 680w. Where is this info that 775w Is needed to make 600w?. I gave up searching for it. I'm measuring the wattage the light uses based on the dimming knob. It works as it should, Min/Max 0-680w.

there were three versions for FCE-6500. 650W, 680W and 730W. now, the 650W version has been sold out and we didn't produce it any more. 730W version will take the dominance.

 

[f-e]

The sticker says the maximum power coming out that box to the LEDs is 600w. You have measured 680w going in to that box. 80w has gone missing. Much of which heated the box up. That heat doesn't come for free.

This driver loss is lower at 100-200v than 200-277v as seen in the temperature measurement. If it's using 680w at either voltage, yet at 240v its using more of that power to heat itself, then less power is getting to the LEDs. This is best used at lower voltages. If we look at the maximum voltage indicated on the sticker, at 277v it could take 2.8A while giving out that maximum 600w. That's 277 x 2.8 = 775VA. I see the power factor is 0.95 now, so applying that it's 735w used to make 600w out, when sweating away on a 277v supply.

If your power meter isn't giving you the power factor, it's probably not measuring it. So you may need to apply it to the result. Meaning the 680w reading could be 645w in reality. That seems much more likely, as it would leave driver efficiency in the low 90s where you would expect. That would make the Moso a fair driver.

That power plate (sticker) is a legal requirement so design engineers can build systems around them. It's not consumer info, and as such wasn't meant to make any sense. Most electricians won't be able to follow what I'm saying. That sticker is generally within a prescribed distance from an appliances cord. So the back of appliances. Out of the way.

We should never really expect the maximum figures. We just make allowances for them. Imagine if we really had 240v at 7.5a = 1800VA. Even if that 7.5a was at 100v it's 750VA or 713w.

It would be nice to see the proper data on it. We could see it's actual output then, as all we have is a Maximum, which won't be attained at all voltages. As we have seen, it runs hotter on your higher supply, yet used no more power. Some power must of moved from the LEDs to the driver. It's not as bright anymore. Only by a little bit, but chasing the figures is is important when you can just as easily use either voltage.

 

[Hammerhead]

how do we measure wattage going in? Let me know ill try it. Converting volts to watts I've listed below. The driver is getting 1700w to make 680w at 120v ?. I'm measuring the wattage the light uses based on the dimming knob.

127 Volts	1759.76 Watts
220 Volts	3048.41 Watts
240 Volts	3325.54 Watts
277 Volts	3838.22 Watts

Anyway pic time. She isn't gonna change much for the next 2-3 weeks.

 

[Mars Hydro Led]

it looks weird. the wattages goes higher when the voltage becomes big? It should be reversed.

 

[exploziv]

Can you show us how you measuring or describe it? Or maybe the math involved is wrong? I can help you figure that out, but for sure what you posted is either incomplete, or somehow wrongly measured or calculated.
Also, if there is a need for real and quite accurate measurements I could do some on my lights when I get the time.

 

[Hammerhead]

I decided to add 2 more plants. Way too much wasted space so I added 1 ICC, and 1 destiny.. 3 plants total with the DBMH. I could still add 1 more. I think 3 is enough.


That voltage chart is a google screen grab. Here is the whole list
Volts to Watts, table for conversion, equivalence, transformation (Amperes = 10Amp, Fp = 0.8, AC, 3F):

120 Volts 1662.77 Watts
127 Volts 1759.76 Watts
220 Volts 3048.41 Watts
240 Volts 3325.54 Watts
277 Volts 3838.22 Watts
440 Volts 6096.82 Watts
600 Volts 8313.84 Watts
1000 Volts 13856.41 Watts
1500 Volts 20784.61 Watts
4160 Volts 57642.65 Watts
5000 Volts 69282.03 Watts
7620 Volts 105585.82 Watts
8000 Volts 110851.25 Watts
11400 Volts 157963.03 Watts
13200 Volts 182904.57 Watts
15000 Volts 207846.10 Watts
22000 Volts 304840.94 Watts
25000 Volts 346410.16 Watts
30000 Volts 415692.19 Watts
34500 Volts 478046.02 Watts
35000 Volts 484974.23 Watts
40000 Volts 554256.26 Watts
46000 Volts 637394.70 Watts
57500 Volts 796743.37 Watts
66000 Volts 914522.83 Watts
69000 Volts 956092.05 Watts
115000 Volts 1593486.74 Watts
138000 Volts 1912184.09 Watts
230000 Volts 3186973.49 Watts

 

[exploziv]

BRO, that is so far away from this discussion I am thinking you must be somehow confused or misinformed about this. Don't worry, the drivers mh uses are much more efficient that you seem to be thinking they are. I will reread this and try to figure out what you are trying to work out, then maybe come back on it. Any questions you got about lights/power draw/W/A and related stuff you can ask me and I will try to answer that as well.

 

[Hammerhead]

Is that post for me?. I'm not trying to work out anything?. I was trying to figure out what f-e is calculating?.

Here's a group shot. Im using the shelf for temp/rh meters for now.

 

[Hammerhead]

I gave DBMH 3ml of cal/mag this feeding. The others I just put in so I didn't give them a boost. I have some biobizz to test so I m using root juice and heaven. ill use both of these for 4 weeks..

 

[GoatCheese]

I gave DBMH 3ml of cal/mag this feeding. The others I just put in so I didn't give them a boost. I have some biobizz to test so I m using root juice and heaven. ill use both of these for 4 weeks..

A member here recommended using BioBizz Root Juice thru the first week of bloom also and said he/she notices improvement in yield because of it.

I’m also using Root Juice (+ rooting hormone) when i’m rooting cuttings in jiffy pucks and it helps keeping leaves in better shape than plain water and strong growth after the cuttings have rooted. Perhaps around 2-3ml/Liter but i never measure it cause i usually take only few cuttings at a time; 0,1ml of Root Juice in water for 3-4 jiffy pucks or something like that.

 

[gizmo666]

A member here recommended using BioBizz Root Juice thru the first week of bloom also and said he/she notices improvement in yield because of it.

I’m also using Root Juice (+ rooting hormone) when i’m rooting cuttings in jiffy pucks and it helps keeping leaves in better shape than plain water and strong growth after the cuttings have rooted. Perhaps around 2-3ml/Liter but i never measure it cause i usually take only few cuttings at a time; 0,1ml of Root Juice in water for 3-4 jiffy pucks or something like that.

i can second that with root juice i used it throughout the veg and into first week of flower on low doses(1ml/l) then replaced it with topmax
never used bio heaven tho'
i always had good results with bio bizz
plants looking good hammerhead how old are they?

 

[Hammerhead]

I don't date my plants while in veg. Around 60 days in veg so Probably 75 days for DBMH.

 

[Hammerhead]

Here are a few pics from today.. I can't get them to not look so green. The walls are reflecting the green light on my cam. The ICC is for a seed run using THH X P41 pollen.

 

[Mars Hydro Led]

So far, so good. nice pot size, nice hanging height,nice plants, etc.

 

[Hammerhead]

I raised the light a bit today. the DBMH, ICC look fine. The Destiny has red stems and is not as green as the others are. I gave DBMH 2 boosts of cal/mag of 3-5ml. I just use the cap I think its 5ml. I haven't given Destiny or ICC any. ICC looks the best so far. I did some reading it looks like Destiny might need more food than the others under LED. LED alone has caused red stem issues from such strong lighting its a plant defense response. With the lighter shade of color, it's more likely a deficiency. I started feeding Destiny 1.5ec with 5ml of cal/mag.
EC=1.3 raised to 1.5
PH=6.3-6.5
Temps=85f
RH%=40%

 

[f-e]

I'm getting proper lost myself now.
This all started with "I tested the actual wattage and got 680w"
I presumed from this, a tester was used. Most people are using something like this

This would measure the entire light units consumption. Which can be thought of as two individual parts. The driver and the LED board. I have been thinking, that one of these power meter plugs, is saying 680w. I can see from the driver sticker, it outputs 600w to the LED's. Thus, 80w went missing. Used by the driver.

Might need to do a rewind on that, as now it seems this measurement was the reading from the knob.

If that's from the knob, It's just a misleading sticker. The knobs are not linear in action, and the output at any particular setting will change as you daisy-chain more lights in. It should really just go 0 to 10

If you don't have a plug in watt meter, they are about 15$ and I like the one pictured. Others will work out costs over time, but all you really want is one that says watts, when the power comes on. No button pushing or extra screens, unless you really need that. This one obviously does more. I have been through the menu's but forget. I think Amps, Volts, Cosine, Run time and kWh since reset. Thus, at the end of a grow you could look at grams per kWh as an issue of production cost. Not just gram per watt, which is a little meaningless without time taken being factored in.
Edit: The buttons set something. It must be cost per unit. So it can work out a grows lighting cost. I find a calculator easier, but it's there if you want it.

 

[Mars Hydro Led]

I'm getting proper lost myself now.
This all started with "I tested the actual wattage and got 680w"
I presumed from this, a tester was used. Most people are using something like this
filedata/fetch?id=18111006&d=1648440153
This would measure the entire light units consumption. Which can be thought of as two individual parts. The driver and the LED board. I have been thinking, that one of these power meter plugs, is saying 680w. I can see from the driver sticker, it outputs 600w to the LED's. Thus, 80w went missing. Used by the driver.

Might need to do a rewind on that, as now it seems this measurement was the reading from the knob.

If that's from the knob, It's just a misleading sticker. The knobs are not linear in action, and the output at any particular setting will change as you daisy-chain more lights in. It should really just go 0 to 10

If you don't have a plug in watt meter, they are about 15$ and I like the one pictured. Others will work out costs over time, but all you really want is one that says watts, when the power comes on. No button pushing or extra screens, unless you really need that. This one obviously does more. I have been through the menu's but forget. I think Amps, Volts, Cosine, Run time and kWh since reset. Thus, at the end of a grow you could look at grams per kWh as an issue of production cost. Not just gram per watt, which is a little meaningless without time taken being factored in.
Edit: The buttons set something. It must be cost per unit. So it can work out a grows lighting cost. I find a calculator easier, but it's there if you want it.

it is a useful facility and very cheap. the first time i hear gram per KWh. for example, for a 680W light, how many KWh you might need for a completed grow?

 

[exploziv]

Depends on the hours u keep lights on. Your engineers should be able to easy calculate that for each light depending on how many hours on per day. 1000w on for one hour is 1 kwh. 500w on for 2 hours is still 1 kwh, but spent in 2 hours. Easy stuff. Basically this carries us into a GPW calculation that factors time also. Grams per watt per month, or grams per kwh per grow would both reflect that, as they factor in time.

 

[f-e]

Depends on the hours u keep lights on. Your engineers should be able to easy calculate that for each light depending on how many hours on per day. 1000w on for one hour is 1 kwh. 500w on for 2 hours is still 1 kwh, but spent in 2 hours. Easy stuff. Basically this carries us into a GPW calculation that factors time also. Grams per watt per month, or grams per kwh per grow would both reflect that, as they factor in time.

This^^

Grams per kWh is the real deal. Grams per watt is actually meaningless.

Just looking at the flower cycle:
680w light, 12 hours a day, 8.16kWh.
49 days, 400kwh
Pretend you got 800g, that's 2 grams per kWh (about 10p a gram in the UK or 10c in the states)

That is quite literally grams per amount of light. However, the grams per watt measure is not. It misses out how long the light was switched on for.

Had that been a 100 day bloom, It would of been 1 gram per kWh (plus veg time)


If I ever use grams per watt, I state an 8 or 9 week plant. Sometimes even commercial growers can be rough enough to just use gram per watt though.



As a competitive grower, I always look how long other growers took, before converting their g/w figure to g/kWh figures and judging their success

 

[exploziv]

I just use gpw comparatively within my grows, and I do talk about gpw like nothing better exists most of times, even if I understand the limitations in that measure. Finding that grower that is both smart enaugh to understand this and also cares about efficiency enaugh is hard. Most growers don't know much about basic stuff like gpw or vpd. Start the talk about an even complicated way to measure efficiency and they looking at you like you're an alien.
But it's good to see you guys know your stuff!!