"Male hermies arent bad"

[Deleted user 97766655]

So we could be looking at something that acts dominate in one situation then can act recessive? So we know from Epistasis that it might act antagonist then be complimentary like it can go either or is just in balance. We know that the male can be selfed and then females grown out and each on can be observed with others and frequencies can be tabulated. Some form of marker can be found to measure gene distance for traits that are associated with hermi or non hermi characteristics. Just spitballing some of the things that are being thrown around. Maybe we take into account that the frequency of traits can be correlated with cross over with chromosomes and the fact that some traits are expressed randomly but still have to interact with non linked chromosomes also experiencing cross over making mapping of two chromosomes at same time or maybe three and acting complimentary in on situations and antagonist in others. Not sure how you could map the phenotypes for multiple chromosomes experiencing cross over at same time and trying to figure non chromosome linked Epistasis. I know it is mixed up but like I said spitballing stuff maybe we all figure it out tomorrow maybe not

 

[Mudballs2.0]

We shouldn't really use human stuff to compare but we are kinda groping for answers sooo.
Could be something like myostatin,
Myostatin is a protein produced in our body that seems to limit muscle growth as studies have shown that lower levels of myostatin correspond with high levels of muscle hypertrophy

sooo the idea being the plant always wants to be male and female but theres some signal that tells it 'no, just be a male for now'. Epistasis and somatic actions keep them sexed. Do we need to know what and where that limiter is? I argue no, at least to me its purely academic...but im down to help...keep that creeper creep away from me tho

 

[Deleted user 97766655]

We shouldn't really use human stuff to compare but we are kinda groping for answers sooo.
Could be something like myostatin,
Myostatin is a protein produced in our body that seems to limit muscle growth as studies have shown that lower levels of myostatin correspond with high levels of muscle hypertrophy

sooo the idea being the plant always wants to be male and female but theres some signal that tells it 'no, just be a male for now'. Epistasis and somatic actions keep them sexed. Do we need to know what and where that limiter is? I argue no, at least to me its purely academic...but im down to help...keep that creeper creep away from me tho

We shouldn't really use human stuff to compare but we are kinda groping for answers sooo.
Could be something like myostatin,
Myostatin is a protein produced in our body that seems to limit muscle growth as studies have shown that lower levels of myostatin correspond with high levels of muscle hypertrophy

sooo the idea being the plant always wants to be male and female but theres some signal that tells it 'no, just be a male for now'. Epistasis and somatic actions keep them sexed. Do we need to know what and where that limiter is? I argue no, at least to me its purely academic...but im down to help...keep that creeper creep away from me tho

We shouldn't really use human stuff to compare but we are kinda groping for answers sooo.

I am new not sure you are talking to me and if not my apologies.

 

[Mudballs2.0]

No, just a general net cast of an idea to any that wish to respond on the concept. I quote or @ when i need to specifically address an individual.
Wonderful contribution @Ecor1 as you gave me a great insight as i read ur post, also @Thcvhunter hinted at it. I think we may have been looking at this wrong. These plants are hermies all the time and something is keeping them one sex or the other.

 

[Deleted user 97766655]

No, just a general net cast of an idea to any that wish to respond on the concept. I quote or @ when i need to specifically address an individual.
Wonderful contribution @Ecor1 as you gave me a great insight as i read ur post, also @Thcvhunter hinted at it. I think we may have been looking at this wrong. These plants are hermies all the time and something is keeping them one sex or the other.

You gave me idea hehe. You say how can something be both things at same time but still neither. Go from one state of homeostasis to state of instability to whatever. Seems like it is from some place that the environment was different and unpredictable and always at the ready to adapt. We know that aphids and other predators are always getting and giving viruses all the time so damage can happen? I read about Sturdevant and how Morgan used him as his UROP to find cross over through gene linkage and ultimately to the gene mapping. I read about various forms and gene mapping but also the bipolar nature hehe psychology term of how the plant is reacting to some reaction or threat maybe through mutated gene that is not acting like it belongs or trying to adapt. I am new to genetics and just going through all the data but don’t hesitate to correct me. I think my best trait would be lack of prejudice because of my ignorance hehe.? I was guided here by a teacher maybe a professor that thinks I might learn something. I will sit back and be somebody that will try to be part of this same question that has been bugging me. I don’t know who posted this but the topic but it is on point and one that will hopefully improve my breeding abilities to learn the process of how to break down, identify, and find mechanisms responsible for transformation of the plants we love so much.

 

[Mudballs2.0]

You gave me idea hehe. You say how can something be both things at same time but still neither. Go from one state of homeostasis to state of instability to whatever. Seems like it is from some place that the environment was different and unpredictable and always at the ready to adapt. We know that aphids and other predators are always getting and giving viruses all the time so damage can happen? I read about Sturdevant and how Morgan used him as his UROP to find cross over through gene linkage and ultimately to the gene mapping. I read about various forms and gene mapping but also the bipolar nature hehe psychology term of how the plant is reacting to environmental threat maybe through mutated gene that is not acting like it belongs or trying to adapt. I am new to genetics and just going through all the data but don’t hesitate to correct my ignorance. You will hopefully see me for what I am; ignorant but willing to learn and help out. I think my best trait would be lack of prejudice because of my ignorance hehe.? I was guided here by a kind soul so I will sit back and be somebody that will try to be part of this same question that has been bugging me. I don’t know who posted this but the topic is on point and one that will improve my breeding abilities and learn the process of how to break down, identify, and find mechanisms responsible for transformation of the plants we love so much.

Ur up to speed with the rest of us, don't call yourself ignorant you clearly own a seat at this roundtable now.

 

[GMT]

Oh shit. Hemizygous? FFS. Just when I think I understand this stuff lol.
I will, I promise I will read the paper, but just to clarify, the A and the a, used in X to auto, is that like tying a ribbon around one or is there actually a differentiation between them?
Fascinating that a Y will always silence both the X and the X responsive autosomal flower regions in active Y systems, yet in the hemizygous system the X with the female generating genes, will silence the "male" counterparts. It makes me wonder if a female genome would be larger than a males in hemizygous lines.

 

[Mudballs2.0]

I think we're looking for an internal mechanism of methylating dna
..

 

[Deleted user 97766655]

Ur up to speed with the rest of us, don't call yourself ignorant you clearly own a seat at this roundtable now.

Well I am ignorant of what I don’t know but if I don’t acknowledge that then I am being stupid hehe!

Thanks for kind words and thank you for welcoming me

 

[Deleted user 97766655]

I think we're looking for an internal mechanism of methylating dna
..

Kinda like if like ecoli uses hmmm clever . Listening but this is some deep water but I have dove 50’ before hehe!

 

[Fuel]

they're not a virus, they're just genetic elements, and the theory is they could be remnants of a virus, but in considering what they are now and what they do it doesn't matter a whole lot where they came from.

This is not a theory but a decent explanation why the Loci 6 is encapsulated in a denatured DNA. And it's a retrovirus (ARN->DNA) ... producing then, denatured DNA portion encapsuation ^^ I'm personally not sequencing my plant in my kitchen, so i can't produce a better explanation. It matter to push out the hops from the discussion. Underline, it's about the monoecious game and sensitive loci for the subject.

however I do get a clue from the mention it's from hungary. hemp breeders have been kind of obsessed with making varieties with only herms, since you can get better fiber from it (afaik, best fiber is from male plants at their optimum fiber harvest time. but (+...)

Maybe you're talking about one ramification of vavilov, i don't known. But in my head i'm more talking about the french industry of hemp, they juggle since a while with dioecious and monoecious on demand. Depend if you want fiber or seeds/subproduct for cattle etc ... they are very not at the stage to determine the sex of angels.

 

[Thcvhunter]

You gave me idea hehe. You say how can something be both things at same time but still neither. Go from one state of homeostasis to state of instability to whatever. Seems like it is from some place that the environment was different and unpredictable and always at the ready to adapt. We know that aphids and other predators are always getting and giving viruses all the time so damage can happen? I read about Sturdevant and how Morgan used him as his UROP to find cross over through gene linkage and ultimately to the gene mapping. I read about various forms and gene mapping but also the bipolar nature hehe psychology term of how the plant is reacting to some reaction or threat maybe through mutated gene that is not acting like it belongs or trying to adapt. I am new to genetics and just going through all the data but don’t hesitate to correct me. I think my best trait would be lack of prejudice because of my ignorance hehe.? I was guided here by a teacher maybe a professor that thinks I might learn something. I will sit back and be somebody that will try to be part of this same question that has been bugging me. I don’t know who posted this but the topic but it is on point and one that will hopefully improve my breeding abilities to learn the process of how to break down, identify, and find mechanisms responsible for transformation of the plants we love so much.

Yup

Even when you get real deep into math, only one thing becomes clear - its all a placeholder we use to try and understand Nature. Yet is not a truth in and of itself.
So, even the whole idea of XX, XY, etc in genetics is just a placeholder and is not actual fact.
There's nothing scientific about Nature

I used to be a diehard science guy back when I thought my intellect was the most supreme thing.
My favorite scene in a movie about science is in the movie Aluna, about shamans of Colombia. This shaman who ingests coca all day and everyday is sent to England to meet with an astronomist where they meet at an observatory. The astronomist shows the shaman a large photo of a far away galaxy. The shaman goes "oh yeah, we've known the name of that place for a long time,". The scientist says "no, theres no way, you need a powerful telescope to even know its there.". To which the shaman replies, "no, you need a telescope because you've forgotten how to see"

 

[Thcvhunter]

You sure it wasn't do to with mono hemp? They did a lot of hemp studies, but to think there's no XX when it's proven is just madness.

Drug cannabis, not hemp.
Just because it doesn't make sense tou you now doesn't mean its wrong.
The fallacy of atheism is thinking out thoughts are supreme and perfect simply because they are our own. For, thats merely narcissism. The truth is out there, way out there, man. Far out.

 

[CreeperStipule]

 

[Deleted user 97766655]

Yup

Even when you get real deep into math, only one thing becomes clear - its all a placeholder we use to try and understand Nature. Yet is not a truth in and of itself.
So, even the whole idea of XX, XY, etc in genetics is just a placeholder and is not actual fact.
There's nothing scientific about Nature

I used to be a diehard science guy back when I thought my intellect was the most supreme thing.
My favorite scene in a movie about science is in the movie Aluna, about shamans of Colombia. This shaman who ingests coca all day and everyday is sent to England to meet with an astronomist where they meet at an observatory. The astronomist shows the shaman a large photo of a far away galaxy. The shaman goes "oh yeah, we've known the name of that place for a long time,". The scientist says "no, theres no way, you need a powerful telescope to even know its there.". To which the shaman replies, "no, you need a telescope because you've forgotten how to see"

Maybe you are saying empty your cup for your intelligence is holding you down and need to zoom out and see it from bigger picture? I won’t argue for too ignorant right now but like you say keep minds eye open and let go of prejudices. Yes engineer too and hard to unshackle ego when I work with dead stuff. This is to me where science x nature = magic; don’t know how I would prove that theory . I will try to listen and ask questions for I feel the passion and that is why I am here.

 

[Crazy Chester]

Here's a Beatrix Choice plant of mine that flowered out male - then, after dropping most of his pollen, he grew a handful of female flowers in the two lowest branches. I kept him alive as long as I could and he produced a few seeds that appear to be fully mature. My understanding is that the seeds produced by this "selfed" male plant should be "regular" seeds that produce both male and female progeny. Actually - if anyone wants to grow out the seeds (I'm unlikely to do so anytime soon) - the parent plant is unlikely to be the only father because his brother Beatrix Choice, a Cinderella 99 male and a Jack The Ripper male growing with him may have dropped some of their pollen on those his late popping female flowers as well.

 

[Deleted user 97766655]

Here's a Beatrix Choice plant of mine that flowered out male - then, after dropping most of his pollen, he grew a handful of female flowers in the two lowest branches. I kept him alive as long as I could and he produced a few seeds that appear to be fully mature. My understanding is that the seeds produced by this "selfed" male plant should be "regular" seeds that produce both male and female progeny. Actually - if anyone wants to grow out the seeds (I'm unlikely to do so anytime soon) - the parent plant is unlikely to be the only father because his brother Beatrix Choice, a Cinderella 99 male and a Jack The Ripper male growing with him may have dropped some of their pollen on those his late popping female flowers as well.

View attachment 18815356

Yes this is interesting and basically all from tropical background. I would be happy to grow the seeds; that is a nice gesture What can I give you in return?

 

[Deleted user 97766655]

Here's a Beatrix Choice plant of mine that flowered out male - then, after dropping most of his pollen, he grew a handful of female flowers in the two lowest branches. I kept him alive as long as I could and he produced a few seeds that appear to be fully mature. My understanding is that the seeds produced by this "selfed" male plant should be "regular" seeds that produce both male and female progeny. Actually - if anyone wants to grow out the seeds (I'm unlikely to do so anytime soon) - the parent plant is unlikely to be the only father because his brother Beatrix Choice, a Cinderella 99 male and a Jack The Ripper male growing with him may have dropped some of their pollen on those his late popping female flowers as well.

View attachment 18815356

Yes and maybe it would be 25% XX, 50% XY, and 25% YY? Or 2/3 male and 1/3 female?

 

[Deleted user 97766655]

I don’t think YY viable since sterile right? So maybe XY is 66% and XX 33%. Only female have viable mitochondria and male male has no good mitochondria so incomplete chromosome chromosome is messed up or mutation around centromere or do plants have issues around centromere???

 

[Deleted user 97766655]

Hey maybe why plants have such hard time too many messed up locations at centromere hehe, male trying to be female and maybe when duplicates it gets help from something??? Just guess maybe female chromosome help Y chromosome and it gets pistils and sperm so we know the problem is there and explain 1/2 Y working with 1 X and mitochondria from Y is making nucleus produce protein to tell X mitochondria to make pollen and X can make pollen but make X eggs/ovule too? Gametes for both?