"Male hermies arent bad"

[Mudballs2.0]

How can you get a Y chromosome without a male? Of course there's males,...what? Lol

 

[djonkoman]

How can you get a Y chromosome without a male? Of course there's males,...what? Lol

not really sure what you're trying to say... could you clarify?
I'm assuming you're responding to me since I think I'm the first to mention the y chromosome by name in this thread.

anyway, trying some explanation which might be what you're looking for (but, not sure what you're exactly saying above, so sorry if this totally misses the mark) :

there's phenotype, and genotype.
phenotype is what we observe.
with weed, we can observe there are males (without sign of any female flower), females (without any sign of male flowers), and plants in between which could be anything from almost only male flowers with a few female, to almost only female flowers and only a few male.

we assume the genotype based on the phenotype. for the full-on males it's a safe assumption they are XY, the full on females are very likely XX, then the question remains what the inbetweeners are.

intuitively, we would identify those plants leaning very much into the male direction as genetically male (XY), but without actually determinining the genotype that's just an assumption. they could very well just be XX individuals with such a high degree of herming that they apear almost fully male.

 

[CreeperStipule]

@djonkoman chimaera posted up a paper showing that all Hermies had the female marker and non had a male marker. Are you saying you know that paper was flawed?
I have tried to search for the post but chimera seems unsearchable.

From the top of my head the male marker was the band 380bp and X-hemizygous would be the intersex & they have a 540bp (would need to clarify this)

 

[CreeperStipule]

I dont understand the question? Im seriously trying to participate in the topic. Not trying for conflict

if you wanted to maintain a sub-dioecious population then fine. Also an idealized population doesn't exist.

 

[CreeperStipule]

not really sure what you're trying to say... could you clarify?
I'm assuming you're responding to me since I think I'm the first to mention the y chromosome by name in this thread.

anyway, trying some explanation which might be what you're looking for (but, not sure what you're exactly saying above, so sorry if this totally misses the mark) :

there's phenotype, and genotype.
phenotype is what we observe.
with weed, we can observe there are males (without sign of any female flower), females (without any sign of male flowers), and plants in between which could be anything from almost only male flowers with a few female, to almost only female flowers and only a few male.

we assume the genotype based on the phenotype. for the full-on males it's a safe assumption they are XY, the full on females are very likely XX, then the question remains what the inbetweeners are.

intuitively, we would identify those plants leaning very much into the male direction as genetically male (XY), but without actually determinining the genotype that's just an assumption. they could very well just be XX individuals with such a high degree of herming that they apear almost fully male.

I wish.

 

[Mudballs2.0]

if you wanted to maintain a sub-dioecious population then fine. Also an idealized population doesn't exist.

Oh, so when a home grower with a tent says they are breeding a new line with just 5 plants, you wont say amything? Good to know...

 

[zaprjaques]

ive heard the talk that cannabis was originally monoecious. has this been proven (wrong)? if its true people would have selected for dioecious individuals and some individuals will revert under stress to save the species?

 

[CreeperStipule]

Oh, so when a home grower with a tent says they are breeding a new line with just 5 plants, you wont say amything? Good to know...

Well seems you're very presumptuous.

 

[Mudballs2.0]

Well seems you're very presumptuous.

You have just started to see what i am.

 

[troutman]

Even the plants want LGBT rights.

 

[funkyhorse]

This is my Mango Zamal LGBT room. For me they are pollen makers

My best weed is coming from the progeny of intersex plants
My best haze is the 5% haze keeper x an intersex girl Thai I chopped as soon as she made a male branch and pollinized the whole room

Zamal is intersex weed. I dont know if sativas and indicas would be the same, but for sativas I have no problem using them for my own seed
This is Mango Zamal trifoliate boy making seed outcrossed with the other Mango zamal. He is clearly the most productive of all Zamal boys. I am very curious about this mutant, my most interesting trifoliate so far, I used his pollen as a third in the pollen mix on the home repro. I am not a breeder and I shouldnt be doing this, but if I dont do it then I will never get to try it and know

N thai variegated boy.

Northern Thai 2008 variegated boy female flower x Mango Zamal. It is next to the trifoliate so I hope most of the seed is coming from him as pollen donor. Is variegation considered a mutation? So this is variegated x trifoliate hoping to get some interesting mutants in the progeny

SamS is the teacher. He said outcross xy x xy and progeny should be firm and it is mostly. I am getting more females than expected from the male seed but every strain is different, the only way to know is trying

XY = male
XX = female

Females turned to male have only XX so when bred to a normal female XX the result is always XX, female.

Males turned to female are XY so when bred to a normal male XY the results are half the seeds are XY male, and 25% are XX female, And 25% YY male if they can survive, because YY often do not.
Get it?
Sorry for any mix-up earlier.
-SamS

Try this , use XY x XY as the parents.
http://www.changbioscience.com/genetics/punnett.html


Punnett Square

XY x XY

...X Y
X XX XY
Y XY YY


Genotype Frequencies:
XX: 1 ( 25% ) female
XY: 2 ( 50% ) male
YY: 1 ( 25% ) male if it lives

And a question for all masters: I sadly live in front of GMO soybean plantations and their plagues come here too
Do you know if Nezara viridula is a plague on cannabis as well? I dont see it praying on the seeds not the plants, it loves one of the Zamal pollen makers and it seems to feed on the pollen
Any organic treatment against it? Thanks for help

Nezara viridula - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

es.wikipedia.org

Have a nice day everyone and thanks for help

 

[Mudballs2.0]

not really sure what you're trying to say... could you clarify?
I'm assuming you're responding to me since I think I'm the first to mention the y chromosome by name in this thread.

anyway, trying some explanation which might be what you're looking for (but, not sure what you're exactly saying above, so sorry if this totally misses the mark) :

there's phenotype, and genotype.
phenotype is what we observe.
with weed, we can observe there are males (without sign of any female flower), females (without any sign of male flowers), and plants in between which could be anything from almost only male flowers with a few female, to almost only female flowers and only a few male.

we assume the genotype based on the phenotype. for the full-on males it's a safe assumption they are XY, the full on females are very likely XX, then the question remains what the inbetweeners are.

intuitively, we would identify those plants leaning very much into the male direction as genetically male (XY), but without actually determinining the genotype that's just an assumption. they could very well just be XX individuals with such a high degree of herming that they apear almost fully male.

And no..my statement about males was not directed at you per se...gmt really started the ball rolling and i was compelled to respond...not at you. Good explanation tho

 

[djonkoman]

From the top of my head the male marker was the band 380bp and X-hemizygous would be the intersex & they have a 540bp (would need to clarify this)

hmm, I can only find stuff about a 540 bp pcr product common to both males and females, nothing about it marking the intersexed ones specifically:
Punja, Zamir K., and Janesse E. Holmes. "Hermaphroditism in marijuana (Cannabis sativa L.) inflorescences–impact on floral morphology, seed formation, progeny sex ratios, and genetic variation." Frontiers in Plant Science (2020): 718.

and what do you exactly mean here relating X-hemizygous and intersex? are you saying 'herm' genes are always on the X-chromosome? and are we talking X-hemizygous genes when comparing X and Y, i.e. genes present on the X without counterpart on the Y, or do you mean something else like genes/regions being hemizygous between a pair of 2 X chromosomes, or the whole X chromosome having no partner chromosome at all (either X or Y), and so in essence being hemizygous for the whole chromosome?

either way, would love to see a source backing that up then, personally I've never read anything finding such conclusive details of what causes 'herming' in cannabis, personally I wouldn't want to commit to throwing out the option of autosomal 'herm genes' based on anything I've read.

ive heard the talk that cannabis was originally monoecious. has this been proven (wrong)? if its true people would have selected for dioecious individuals and some individuals will revert under stress to save the species?

eh, define originally?

by far most plants have both sexes within the same flower, some do split them up into different flowers but still bear both on the same plant, having 2 seperate sexes like in cannabis is rare in the plant world.
so obviously if you go back far enough up the family tree, you'll hit an ancestor that did not have seperate sexes yet.

however cannabis close relative hops also has seperate sexes, so a good first guess could be that the origin of having different sexes would be at least before cannabis and hops evolved into seperate plant species. although that's still just a guess, since both lineages could have evolved dioecy independently, after they already split.
from papers I've read so far though, the evidence seems to point to the origin being relatively old, i.e. before the cannabis/hops split.

but, it's just a matter of going far enough up the family tree/far back enough in history. if you'd trace back our (humans) ancestor species far enough you'd eventually hit on asexually reproducing organisms too. doesn't say much about our current mode of reproduction though.

 

[Mudballs2.0]

Even the plants want LGBT rights.

I thought it was hilarious...i didnt leave you hanging....bit sensitive..but hilarious

 

[Mudballs2.0]

hmm, I can only find stuff about a 540 bp pcr product common to both males and females, nothing about it marking the intersexed ones specifically:
Punja, Zamir K., and Janesse E. Holmes. "Hermaphroditism in marijuana (Cannabis sativa L.) inflorescences–impact on floral morphology, seed formation, progeny sex ratios, and genetic variation." Frontiers in Plant Science (2020): 718.

and what do you exactly mean here relating X-hemizygous and intersex? are you saying 'herm' genes are always on the X-chromosome? and are we talking X-hemizygous genes when comparing X and Y, i.e. genes present on the X without counterpart on the Y, or do you mean something else like genes/regions being hemizygous between a pair of 2 X chromosomes, or the whole X chromosome having no partner chromosome at all (either X or Y), and so in essence being hemizygous for the whole chromosome?

either way, would love to see a source backing that up then, personally I've never read anything finding such conclusive details of what causes 'herming' in cannabis, personally I wouldn't want to commit to throwing out the option of autosomal 'herm genes' based on anything I've read.


eh, define originally?

by far most plants have both sexes within the same flower, some do split them up into different flowers but still bear both on the same plant, having 2 seperate sexes like in cannabis is rare in the plant world.
so obviously if you go back far enough up the family tree, you'll hit an ancestor that did not have seperate sexes yet.

however cannabis close relative hops also has seperate sexes, so a good first guess could be that the origin of having different sexes would be at least before cannabis and hops evolved into seperate plant species. although that's still just a guess, since both lineages could have evolved dioecy independently, after they already split.
from papers I've read so far though, the evidence seems to point to the origin being relatively old, i.e. before the cannabis/hops split.

but, it's just a matter of going far enough up the family tree/far back enough in history. if you'd trace back our (humans) ancestor species far enough you'd eventually hit on asexually reproducing organisms too. doesn't say much about our current mode of reproduction though.

I like you...crazy smart.
If i may
Hermie must be somatic...hear me out. If all plants are hermies by dent of species survival, then the intersex trait is not a sex chromosome attribute. It must be somatic? ..no?

Definitions of somatic chromosome. any chromosome that is not a sex chromosome
This is just a gene getting expressed right? .."oh shit we need to survive.flip and polinate asap!" That's autosomal cue.

 

[CreeperStipule]

hmm, I can only find stuff about a 540 bp pcr product common to both males and females, nothing about it marking the intersexed ones specifically:
Punja, Zamir K., and Janesse E. Holmes. "Hermaphroditism in marijuana (Cannabis sativa L.) inflorescences–impact on floral morphology, seed formation, progeny sex ratios, and genetic variation." Frontiers in Plant Science (2020): 718.

and what do you exactly mean here relating X-hemizygous and intersex? are you saying 'herm' genes are always on the X-chromosome? and are we talking X-hemizygous genes when comparing X and Y, i.e. genes present on the X without counterpart on the Y, or do you mean something else like genes/regions being hemizygous between a pair of 2 X chromosomes, or the whole X chromosome having no partner chromosome at all (either X or Y), and so in essence being hemizygous for the whole chromosome?

either way, would love to see a source backing that up then, personally I've never read anything finding such conclusive details of what causes 'herming' in cannabis, personally I wouldn't want to commit to throwing out the option of autosomal 'herm genes' based on anything I've read.


eh, define originally?

by far most plants have both sexes within the same flower, some do split them up into different flowers but still bear both on the same plant, having 2 seperate sexes like in cannabis is rare in the plant world.
so obviously if you go back far enough up the family tree, you'll hit an ancestor that did not have seperate sexes yet.

however cannabis close relative hops also has seperate sexes, so a good first guess could be that the origin of having different sexes would be at least before cannabis and hops evolved into seperate plant species. although that's still just a guess, since both lineages could have evolved dioecy independently, after they already split.
from papers I've read so far though, the evidence seems to point to the origin being relatively old, i.e. before the cannabis/hops split.

but, it's just a matter of going far enough up the family tree/far back enough in history. if you'd trace back our (humans) ancestor species far enough you'd eventually hit on asexually reproducing organisms too. doesn't say much about our current mode of reproduction though.

I think I have it the wrong way round, 380 or 390bp was only found in males, all intersex and females where in the 540bp.

I will try to find the paper/papers..

I remember one paper where it was linked to hops and they seemed to propose XY, X-Hemi and Autosomal/Dosage compensation, but again better if can get the paper

And yes as far as I remember there was a paper that stated it was all on the X

 

[Mudballs2.0]

here, since nobody has posted a male hermie...ill fkn do it

These are minor and nothing to worry about in the bloodline. Prly wont even take pollen and form a seed...but who knows.
hey @CreeperStipule your presumptuous ass got any pics of male hermies? ...i mean since ur in the male hermi thread running ur fkn mouth...

 

[CreeperStipule]

I'll run it where I like as you are not the sheriff!
I've had plenty of them and go Kobra Kai on them all. No mercy.....

 

[Mudballs2.0]

I'll run it where I like as you are not the sheriff!
I've had plenty of them and go Kobra Kai on them all. No mercy.....

Ok that kobra kai comment got you some street cred with me lol

 

[Fuel]

for example, a mutation in an ethylene receptor making the plant completely unresponsive to ethylene should have a similar effect as ethylene blockers(sts/cs) in a female genetic background, i.e. it would flower as a full on male.
in a male genetic background, this same mutation would not lead to female flowers.

My blunt is making me lazzy, but it's a very easy and free information to get today.

At the time when testing your weed was pretty rare and not very affordable, i've discovered in reading the public tests that most of "elite cuts" present abnormal (let's say very high for sensible people) levels of ethylen rate. If ever you try to STS the Cheese rightly, you will make your own final conclusions on it.

however cannabis close relative hops also has seperate sexes, so a good first guess could be that the origin of having different sexes would be at least before cannabis and hops evolved into seperate plant species. although that's still just a guess, since both lineages could have evolved dioecy independently, after they already split.
from papers I've read so far though, the evidence seems to point to the origin being relatively old, i.e. before the cannabis/hops split.

update : you again ^^ I swear i'm not focused, just stimulated by what you're writing.

The answer is in the chromosome 6, and it's not between hops and cannabis. But between cannabis and hemp. It's just a retrovirus that was the firestarter, with all the consequences we known with dioecious and monoecious splits. The hemp industry is at work since ages on this matter, and since ages that they no longer build theories but bankable methods on it ^^. Nice read on the retrovirus (2018).