"Male hermies arent bad"

[Cerathule]

Have English version of this? I think Deutsch German?

I'm currently translating it, which still may need another day as the tables have to be redone and the whole copying process makes alot of errors. I'm not even sure if DeepL uses the right words for these specialized genetic/breeding stuff so if someone may help me out here it would really be welcome, as long as I have it in text I can still do auto-batch replacements.

The tricots is refering to a dicot seedling starting out with 3 (or more) cotyledons. These are leaves, they do photosynthesis and carry already etioplasts, which are the precursor cells to chloroplasts. Dicots are a large taxonomic group where Cannabis also belongs into. The study is about the genetic background and the outer influences which causes a plant to make tricots instead of dicots. These genes are even found in other species like insects.

 

[Redrum92]

the herm gene/trait is passed to all

I would love a reference on that

 

[Cerathule]

@Mudballs2.0
here's a current excerpt to illustrate some of the relations of this phenomena with meristems/SAMs:

"The discontinuous variability of cotyledon ratios could perhaps be explained by the fact that the intermediate forms would be kept low in number by the developmental history of the cotyledons. It would be possible that either two or three cotyledons could be created, and that the splitting of a plant into two meristem zones, leading to intermediate forms, is a peculiarity in the construction plan of the plant, which can occur only rarely. Thus, the discontinuity would not come about by a genuine reversal of the internal conditions for the trait carriers when certain external conditions are reached, but by the presence of an internal structure which excludes certain types of modifiability. We are unable to refute this second possibility in Petunia. However, we shall show in a later publication that the splitting of the first cotyledon meristem into several meristem zones occurs with extraordinary frequency in another plant species..."

Once the plant matures and shows the other phyllotaxis this is the chance for the meristems to return to normal, too. Just a guess though...

 

[Mudballs2.0]

@Mudballs2.0
here's a current excerpt to illustrate some of the relations of this phenomena with meristems/SAMs:

"The discontinuous variability of cotyledon ratios could perhaps be explained by the fact that the intermediate forms would be kept low in number by the developmental history of the cotyledons. It would be possible that either two or three cotyledons could be created, and that the splitting of a plant into two meristem zones, leading to intermediate forms, is a peculiarity in the construction plan of the plant, which can occur only rarely. Thus, the discontinuity would not come about by a genuine reversal of the internal conditions for the trait carriers when certain external conditions are reached, but by the presence of an internal structure which excludes certain types of modifiability. We are unable to refute this second possibility in Petunia. However, we shall show in a later publication that the splitting of the first cotyledon meristem into several meristem zones occurs with extraordinary frequency in another plant species..."

Once the plant matures and shows the other phyllotaxis this is the chance for the meristems to return to normal, too. Just a guess though...

Glad ur looking into stuff. This isnt hermie related though. It shouldn't replace genetic studies that have well traveled ground.

 

[Cerathule]

Here's the draft attached @Ecor1

This isnt hermie related though

Yeah I know. But it will help you with your trials with the "trifoliates"

 

[Mudballs2.0]

Here's the draft attached @Ecor1


Yeah I know. But it will help you with your trials with the "trifoliates"

Test has not been carried out...that's the karyotype i mentioned.
Must be polygenic...dude you just gave MY argument peer reviewed support thnx
A total of about 3 gene pairs
remember i like you so this is me being nice in telling...i told you so. The paper literally corroborates my position of aneuploidy. Trisomic aneuploids...fack this is frustrating

 

[William76]

I would love a reference on that

I said it,so I doubt ull reference it anywhere.76

 

[Cerathule]

aneuploidy.

But a chromosome and a gene is not the same...
Polygenic - literally "many genes".
The ploidities are very special on their own because of the process of Meiosis, which slices these apart and rearranges them, which may as well fail, leading to a death of the cell.

Well, the interesting thing for me is how the author talks about environmental conditions acting as the trigger of said recessive genes. And how less optimal weather also lead to the same, via a side-effect of it...

But I'm not sure, esp. with some words, as I formating, saw sometimes it translated either "breeds" or "races" for "Züchtungen".
The forum wouldn't take my .odt which could be corrected way more easy.

 

[Cerathule]

Chromosomal aberration

Chromosomal aberrations (from Latin aberrare "to deviate"), also called chromosomal abnormalities, are structural or numerical changes in the chromosomes of an organism or cell that are visible by light microscopy.[1]

They are major changes in the genetic material that can lead to serious medical conditions. Chromosomal aberrations in humans are described in clinical cytogenetics using ISCN nomenclature (International System for Human Cytogenetic Nomenclature)[2]. In contrast, minor changes that are not visible by light microscopy in cytogenetic specimens, such as mutations in individual genes (gene mutations), are not counted as chromosomal aberrations.[3][1]

Chromosomal aberrations are divided into two groups:

Numerical chromosomal aberrations, i.e. a change in number (also: genome mutation): Aneuploidy (e.g., monosomy, trisomy), polyploidy (e.g., triploidy).
Structural chromosomal aberrations, i.e. changes in the structure of a chromosome (also: chromosomal mutation): Inversion, deletion, translocation, duplications.

Structural chromosomal aberrations can be caused by mutagens with clastogenic potential. Numerical chromosomal aberrations can be caused by agents with aneugenic potential. Both groups are described in more detail in their own articles.

Chromosomenaberration – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

 

[Mudballs2.0]

You're doing great keep reading (thumbs up)

 

[midwestkid]

im gonna throw an idea out there. you guys take it easy on me. im just a stoned dude.

so you spray S.T.S and it does something with ethylene production? and blocks or affects copper uptake or something like that? which messes with the plants hormones? leaning a gal more towards the male side.

im sorry i know this is going to be painful to read. lol.

so couldnt you test a plants "levels" and form a correlation between your data when:
A. the plant is left completely alone and behaves normally and is allowed to flower and finish.
B. the plant gets sprayed with S.T.S. and goes through the Change...

im not intelligent enough to define what these "levels" would be? maybe tissue samples? are there measurable hormones? possibly a measurable dietary fluctuation?

i guess what im seeing is a gender fluid plant. and by trying to find a metric that is expressed when the plant is in balance
then find what goes out of balance when S.T.S is applied.
Then perhaps with nutrition or whatever cues we (you) possibly figure out how to keep that male behavior from expressing when its unwanted. or atleast there would be some data that might point you (not me) in the right direction? you know... the weiner or vagina gene?

coming soon
Almost like the complete opposite of S.T.S.
a spray that makes shit more stable.
"Bitch be cool" in stores soon.

good lord i got high... sorry. i thought i had an idea.

brought to you by: Marijuana.

 

[Mudballs2.0]

im gonna throw an idea out there. you guys take it easy on me. im just a stoned dude.

so you spray S.T.S and it does something with ethylene production? and blocks or affects copper uptake or something like that? which messes with the plants hormones? leaning a gal more towards the male side.

im sorry i know this is going to be painful to read. lol.

so couldnt you test a plants "levels" and form a correlation between your data when:
A. the plant is left completely alone and behaves normally and is allowed to flower and finish.
B. the plant gets sprayed with S.T.S. and goes through the Change...

im not intelligent enough to define what these "levels" would be? maybe tissue samples? are there measurable hormones? possibly a measurable dietary fluctuation?

i guess what im seeing is a gender fluid plant. and by trying to find a metric that is expressed when the plant is in balance
then find what goes out of balance when S.T.S is applied.
Then perhaps with nutrition or whatever cues we (you) possibly figure out how to keep that male behavior from expressing when its unwanted. or atleast there would be some data that might point you (not me) in the right direction? you know... the weiner or vagina gene?

coming soon
Almost like the complete opposite of S.T.S.
a spray that makes shit more stable.
"Bitch be cool" in stores soon.

good lord i got high... sorry. i thought i had an idea.

brought to you by: Marijuana.

They test all the time using gas chromotography and there's stuff called florigen
Florigen is a systemic signal that initiates flowering in plants
this could be used to argue we're both right...plant is gender fluid at the molecular level and can be figured out like you want...but the methodology needed to decode that is beyond my paygrade atm...like really frkn deep dive shit.
If you open that link for florigen and get into proteins...youll wanna back out just like i did and go back to "male hermies arent all bad" if you know about hermies.

 

[GMT]

Im out, sorry I just don't have the patience.

 

[Mudballs2.0]

Everybody think they gangsta...till the real gangstas show up

 

[igrowone]

and there's dutch master reverse, works a little from posted experiences

 

[William76]

and there's dutch master reverse, works a little from posted experiences































Iv used it and it does work but why waste the money when u can start with stable plants and not need it.reverse is OK for a few plants but if u had a lot of plants regularly it would be expensive,for something we shouldn't need.like begets like,hermies are bad.keep the best kill the rest.76

 

[Mudballs2.0]

.. I'm either missing something paramount or actually don't really agree to the definition of the trifoliate orange leaf categorization
Bro, your pics are awesome, you have some that show these tops, too.

I stopped caring about them...if you do this long enough you realize oddities are not good for yield consistency. The only reason i wanted to play with them is transgressive segregation. I stopped taking pictures of the weird cuz that's what they all are...weird growth and you just no longer shocked by it or feel like documenting them all. BUT i thought maybe by pollen chucking with these aberrations you can get some offspring that pop off extra special. I think upon review you may have misinterpreted something i said.
I said the chromosomes are unbalanced and have an extra branching gene....you saw something different, then for lack of understanding, posted a paper that basically says "mudballs is right, you just aren't reading it right yet"
Some asshats came at me and have been added to ignore, you have been a thoughtful and respectful partner in this dialogue all the way back to when we chatted about forcing flowering with grafting...but pleeease tell me this isn't a Donad Trump dig at me
.. I'm either missing something paramount or actually don't really agree to the definition of the trifoliate orange leaf categorization
you are missing something and that comment stinks to high heaven for me...

 

[Chuck Jägerschnitzel]

I read a lot of comparison and analogy of plant gender genetics and human/mammal gender genetics in this thread so far and I wonder if an alligator isn't a better model for comparison. An alligator is a lot more similar to a plant, it sprouts from a seed germinated in the ground like a plant and its green and coldblooded like a plant. The real reason I like the comparison better is because the gator's gender is determined to some extent by the environmental conditions when it was germinating and I feel like I get a higher male cannabis plant percentage when the seeds get started in cool conditions. Alligators get more males in hot weather, but its still a similar effect of germination/incubation temperature on gender which doesn't seem like it occurs in warm blooded genetics.

 

[GMT]

@Mudballs2.0 seriously, you don't understand what you're talking about. You haven't got a clue what the terms you're using mean. Then you're claiming that you're right and others don't understand. No, we understand. Some of us have put the work in. I've been saying from the start that it's not about chromosomes but genes. Even named one of the genes at play for you. But you're the only one who knows what's right, right? How many generations are you at with your Tri line? Mine are at f17. Every parent a stable Tri plant. You're a real gangsta, pfffff yeah ok, go play with your gun, but remember, Benny Blanco was a punk.

 

[CreeperStipule]